this sunday, after a post truth this sunday after a most election, do donald trump's words matter? >> this is problem with the media. you guys took everything donald trump said so literally. >> when candidate trump says -- >> we're going to drain the swamp. >> what does he mean? what about repealing obamacare or conversations with the leaders of taiwan, pakistan and philippines. this morning, my interview with the vice president elect, governor mike pence of indiana. plus, post election bitt bitterness. >> i would rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> no, you didn't. >> we're bringing together the top campaign figures, kellyanne

and joel. after losing 63 house seats in recent years, why did the democrats choose the same leadership team. >> i have a special spring in my step today. >> can democrats reach new voters with the same old team. joining me for insight and analysis are amy walter, editor of the "politico" cook report. andrea mitchell, chief foreign affairs correspondent of nbc news and heather mcgee, president of the liberal group. it's sunday, welcome to "meet the press." >> this is "meet the press" for chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. there used to be an add service when i was a kid, when e.f. hutton talks, people listen. >> when the president of the united states or president-elect talks people do listen. what he says has consequences,

whether he talks about draining the company for stopping companies from leaving the united states 0 or being told by the staff you shouldn't take him literally except perhaps when you should. remember when he said this about president obama during the campaign? >> he's the founder of isis. the founder of isis. the founder. >> the next day, hugh hewitt assumed we were not to take mr. trump literally. >> i know what you meant. you meant he created the vacuum, he lost the peace. >> no, i meant he's the founder of isis. >> in that case, we were supposed to take him literally. what many have dubbed the post truth election are we getting a look at a post truth presidency? trump's first campaign manager argued at a campaign post more tec tem this week that the words don't matter. >> this is the problem with the media. you guys took everything donald trump said so literally and the problem with that is the

american people didn't. >> though trump promised in april to keep carrier jobs in the u.s. >> we're not going let carrier leave. >> he actually said this week, while announcing half those carrier jobs will stay he did not expect to be taken literally. >> i said carrier will never lea leave, but that was a euphemism talking about carrier-like companies from here on in. >> the idea trump is not fully accountable for his words became a campaign -- >> voters take donald trump seriously as a candidate but don't take him literally. the press takes donald trump literally but don't take him seriously. >> as trump shifts from campa n campaigning to governing, his words will have legal, diplomatic and national security implications as past presidents have quickly discovered. >> the british government learned saddam hussein significantly sought uranium from africa.

>> did not have sexual relations with that woman. >> you like your healthcare plan, you keep your healthcare plan. >> on friday, trump himself learned words matter after he broke with decades of diplomatic president and took a call with taiwan since 1979, angering the chinese. indians are befuddled. according to a pakistani read-out called pakistan's prime minister a terrific guy and premeditated to visit the country. when can u.s. allies, and countries and voters take trump at his word. nbc counted 141 distinct shifts on 23 major policy issues during trump's 511 day white house run. during the campaign trump said he will appeal obamacare and now promising to keep the most popular el. s in tact. the campaign, trump pledged to dump the paris climate agreement. >> we will cancel this deal so our companies can compete.

>> now, he says he will deep an open mind. during the campaign trump promised to end pay to play politics in washington. >> drain the swamp. now, former governor, sarah palin is calling the carrier deal crony capitalism. ultima ultimately, donald trump's success may depend how literally supporters take his promises. >> politicians are always saying they want to drain the swamp and get rid of lobbyists. lobbyists aren't going anywhere but they do expect him to put the lobbyists in their place. >> joining me now is the vice president elect of the united states by the way, still governor of indiana, mike pence, welcome back to the show. >> good morning. good to be here. >> let me start with foreign policy and the issue with taiwan. does the president-elect intend to break with one china policy? >> i think the conversation that happened this week with the president of taiwan was a courtesy call. she reached out to the

president-elect and he took the call from the democratically elected leader of taiwan, one of more than 50 telephone calls the president-elect has taken from world leaders in the midst of historic case of cabinet appointments and senior appointments and even traveling and saving 1,000 jobs in the state of indiana. it's the kind of approach you will see him bring to challenges at home and abroad. >> this was an intentional challenge to the foreign policy establishment a little built, u.s.-china diplomatic establishment? >> this was a courtesy call from the democratically elected leader from taiwan called to congratulate him. >> nothing new should be read into it? >> i don't think so. i honestly think that what world leaderses are finding, those that have reached out to the

president-elect, those i talked to j i've talked to several dozen world leaders and spoke to king abdullah just yesterday. i think there is a great sense of enthusiasm and optimism around the world because they're counting president-elect a strong leader. >> the chinese leaders are upset about this. >> with broad shoulders who will advance america's interest but will also be engaging the world on behalf of america. >> the chinese government is very upset about this. do they have a right to be or do you tell them back down, you're overwor overworrying. what's your advice to your counterparts in china? >> i think i would say to our counterparts in china, this was a moment of courtesy, the president-elect talked to their president two weeks ago in the same manner not discussion about policy. we will be preparing, after january 20th, to advance what

will be president-elect -- president-elect trump's agenda on the world stage and deal with policy at that time. >> have you or the team or president-elect trump reached out to the chinese government since this bubbled up, official yet? >> not to my knowledge. >> should we expect a call this week to calm the waters? >> chuck, i wouldn't -- i wouldn't expect so. to be honest with you, the waters here seem like a tempest in a teapot. it's striking to me president obama would reach out to a murdering dictator in cuba and be hailed as a hero and president-elect donald trump takes a courtesy call from the democratically elected president in taiwan and becomes something in the media. most leaders around the world see it for what it was. you will see in president-elect donald trump a willingness to engage the world but on america's terms. >> let me jump to pakistan, on

thursday, the prime minister, here was the headline on the front of the international news in karachi. trump says ready to play role in resolution of issues. let me ask you, is he offering to mediate border disputes. pakistan wanted to imply he was offering to mediate border disputes between pakistan an indiana. >> clearly, there's been -- india. >> there's been great tension and resulted in violence along the caregion. and what president-elect trump expressed was the desire for continued u.s. engagement and building a relationship between those countries, two nuclear powers, the president-elect recognizes that and making sure they know when this administration takes office we intend to be fully engaged in the region and fully engaged with both nations to advance peace and security. >> to be a mediator deciding

kashmir? >> i think in president-elect donald trump you have someone who is prepared to advance america's interests here at home, rebuild this economy, fight for american jobs. i think you're also going to see an energetic leadership in the world prepared to engage and look for ways he can bring those extraordinary deal-making skills to bear on lessening tensions and solving problems in the world. >> are you guys using the state department foreign service professionals when you use these phone calls? getting the sort of okay, the protocol talking points that are not partisan ones but that have been accepted as sort of international norms? >> chuck, the president-elect and i had the privilege now of receiving presidential daily briefs and we're receiving the formal briefings that come about national security during the course of the transition. i know the president-elect has been briefed as he's been making

these calls. i saw a report the other day during his transition, president obama reached out to about 22 world leaders. president-elect trump has already spoken to more than 50 leaders around the world. he's been briefed. those have been court conversations but parcel of beginning the kinds of relationships that will allow us to advance our interests around the world. >> where are we on secretary of state, doing the thank you tour, there were chants of no romney. what did he make of that and is romney still a top tier candidate for secretary of state. >> what we're seeing in this transition outpacing all his predecessors in the last 40 years. it really is. >> more on aour side since

regarding. we went right to work and we want to bring the broadest range of men and women with diverse backgrounds for him to choose key positions, already chosen a dozen key positions before the end of november. with regard to secretary of state we've been win knowing the list but it might grow a little built. to talk to the president-elect, he's simply looking for the best men and women to advance the agenda we know will make america great again. >> does seem as if you heard earlier names and keeps broadening about. what is it about the current field he hasn't quite found yet? >> not a reflection of the current field. the everyone he talked to and been talked about, whether rudy guiliani or mitt romney or general petraeus or senator corker or john bolton and others bring extraordinary background and quality to this. i think you will see the

president-elect continue that process to insure he has a vision for reingaging the world with an america first agenda, advancing america's interests in the world economically and diplomatically he's going to make sure he has the right person in that role just like he is in every role. >> given how highlight profile the e-mail situation was and classified e-mail situation was for secretary clinton during the campaign, how significant is the conviction against general petraeus in your thinking and president-elect's thinking when it comes to secretary of state. >> let me say general david petraeus is an american hero, led forces in battle and acqu acquitted himself with great distinction. he paid a price. >> did he deserve to pay a price? >> he paid a price for mishandling classified information. >> you don't think that disqualifies him to be secretary

of state? >> i think that will be up to the president-elect and will weigh that against the backdrop of an extraordinary career in military service whether secretary of state or another role in this administration. it will be the president-elect's decision about the totality of general petraeus' experience and background. i first met general petraeus commanding the 101st airborne in iraq and saw him marshall the plan and resources for what became the successful surge in iraq. he is an american hero and has our great respect. >> define the afraid, "drain the swamp." i think people hear different things. what should the american people hear. what is your definition of dr n draining the swamp? >> drain the swamp is a commitment by the president-elect to once again have government as good as our people, to have a direction in washington, d.c. that isn't working for the political class

and lobbyists and wall street but working everyday for the american people. that's one of the reasons why we set the policies even in this transiti transition, from the time the president-elect asked me to take it over, we asked people active in the lobbying world to step aside from being involved in the transition. we will set into place a five-year band on lobbying from the executive branch and lifetime ban from any who ever serves in our administration lobbying on behalf of a foreign government. making sure we have people in this administration keeply committed to the president-elect's agenda to bring a renewed commitment to america first and america's interests first is what we mean. >> what do you say to folks that look at the wealth of some of these individuals named to the cabinet and say, that seems like a different type of swamp. the wealthy are well-connected even if they weren't washington players. what do you say to that criticism? >> i say what the president-elect said in cincinnati the other night. he said, people have talked about some people that know how

to make money being appointed to the cabinet. better to choose people who know how to make money than don't know how to make matter. truth is you look at selections in this cabinet and those named like steven mnuchin and betsy devos, these are people of extraordinary accomplishments and will bring the same intellect and quality of experience in the world economy our president-elect is bringing and we can fight for america's jobs and america's interests. >> some conservatives not happy. when it comes to donald trump's cabinet it makes goldman sachs great again. it's not trump draining the swamp, the swamp draini ining dd trump. what do you tell mark levin. >> all of these appointees are signing onto the trump agenda whether the ethic reforms we're

going to advance or commitment to cut taxes, roll back regulation, repeal and replace obamacare, we will have a team ready on day one to work with members of congress to get this economy moving again and have america standing tall in the world again. >> very quickly, two more questions. on carrier, why separate this pay to play politics. you gave a tax break to carrier so they would only send 700 jobs overs overseas, sarah palin called it crony capitalism. why isn't it? >> we were heartbroken in february when carrier announced they were pulling up stakes and taking all their jobs south of the border to mexico and closing factories in a couple of areas in the state of indiana. i asked them at that time if the state of indiana could offer any incentives very routine in competition. they said, don't bother. make no mistake about it, the only reason carrier is staying

in the united states because donald trump was elected president of the united states and the leadership at united technology in carrier. >> this isn't government in t intervening in the private sector? >> remember more than 1,000 hoosiers have certainty in their jobs and futures going into this christmas season because of the leadership of donald trump. >> 700 don't. >> i couldn't be more grateful for that. >> 700 don't. >> the people of indiana couldn't be more grateful that. >> i know the glass is half-empty in the media. >> hitting the need 82 is alw-- media is a crutch for you guys. >> here's the bottom line, i was in the room when he made the the call. what the american people have for donald trump is a person champion of the american economy. he said we will cut taxes and roll back the regulations dri driving companies like your out of the country.

we will renegotiate trade deals to put american jobs and american workers first and asked them very respectfully to reconsider their decision to leave and as a fellow american and from indiana, i couldn't be more proud that more than 1,000 americans have economic certainty in their future, more than a thousand jobs even before he becomes president of the united states. just the beginning. stay tuned, be ready. donald trump will be fighting for american jobs and be a champion of the american economy. >> mr. vice president littlelec that's all the time we have. guessing we will have more in the future. coming up, with emotions still raw, are the clinton st f staffers sore losers and trump aides sore winners. whole communities are living on mars and solar satellites

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now get puffs plus lotion in the squeezable softpack. welcome back. the panel is welcome back, the panel is here. andrea mitchell our chief correspondent and rich lowery from national review. let's start with this kerfuffle. why isn't donald trump's tweet right about this, we give all this money to taiwan and everybody makes a big deal over a phone call. the average american saying this seems like the typical washington kerfuffle that means nothing to my life. >> it won't anything until

something goes wrong military. this is arguably the most important relationship the u.s. has. there has been no call or conversation, doesn't matter who made the call, the point is the conversation happened. even here someone as careful as mike pence referred to her as the president of taiwan. >> that's a no-no? >> a no-no. the one china policy devised by henry kissinger and richard nixon. the chinese are ripped but trying to seize -- they will seize on what mike pence said, one of 60 calls, a courtesy call. try to move on. but they are looking at donald trump in a very different way. they are thinking we can do business with him. this is not barack obama who will bludgeon us over human rights. they had an open mind. their first signal is wow, this is a new relationship and we have to arm ourselves. >> ari fleischer tweeted, i hope

this was intentional. he would like it better if it was an intentional decision. is that where you are? >> i'm the wrong guy to ask because national review opposed this. obviously you can reconsider these diplomatic arrangement s that have been accepted for decades but you need to do it with some deliberation that appears to have been lacking in this instance. >> he even said in the interview with him we will get to policy when he's the president. right now, this is about courtesy. theoretically, you should be already having a policy and then everything you do from now through your presidency is moving forward on that. this is a candidate who ran an unpredictable, you won't know what you will get a lot of voters liked about him. when it comes to the world stage unpredictability can be dangerous. >> are we making too much out of

it. no. one thing that casts a shadow over everything he makes is self self-dealing. every conversation is credits where there are madsive trump intere interests. and he is not just saying his kids very close to him will run his corporations. it's undermining the benefit of the doubt some people might give him. >> what about this word issue you take him literally. i'm sorry, this is coming across to me as ludicrous, i heard corey lewandowski say you people in the media -- words matter. lie of the year for barack obama, and it cost his party political problems. george w. bush got accused of lying to get into war. can they really expect to govern this way? >> the outlandishness and exaggerated ways he expressed

things was appeal to a lot of his voters. we have to get used to a president of the united states who will communicate differe differently, more direct and more informal and occasionally bizarre. one thing is the words will matter more but what will matter most is the performance. if he delivers a more robust economy and not a blow-up oversea, all these controver controversies -- >> i'm sorry. we should never stop being appalled for the disrespect this man has nor the facts. there's a man headed to the white house that has a relationship for the truth unbefitting our country. whether we take him literally or seriously, how dangerous he is. honestly, we will look back at this moment and ask how much backbone we all had at this moment? will we follow those in his party like romney and ryan and cruz who frankly ended up putting their love of power ahead of love of country or have the backbone to stand up for neighbors very much under threat

right now and constitution and values and the planet. >> let me say one word about the foreign policy aspects of this. that is why you have a national security advisor, whether scowcroft, hadley, sandy berger who ever was the national security advisor, tony lake, they tell you, here's what your defense secretary wants, your secretary of state wants, here's what i believe, if you want. these are risks and benefits. if you want to change china policy, accept this phone call. you're being told, john bolton has written this is a great thing to do. this will be the after effect. you now have to make that decision. that's the problem. i'm not sure he's getting that kind of advice. >> more so than the literally and seriously, i think kellyanne conway has a better way of s saying this now, things that offend voters versus things that affect voters. you can be offended by things he said but the richest point, if it -- too rich's point, if it

affects me i will feel very differently about that. we have to remember his policy and how it actually ends up affecting people's lives is very important. we have to remember we still have a very divided country. for all the talk about he won because he did this, he's still coming into a country you have people with fewer votes and you have to reach out to people who didn't support you and show them you will affect their lives positi positively. >> i want to hit you with one more issue on this carrier deal the idea this is crony capitalism. if barack obama had done this, conservatives would have pounded him across the board. peggy noonan wrote this is called economic nationalism but whatever its name it suggests a republicanism with the needs of the moment and manufacturing landscape and rather than quoting adam smith and wringing invisible hands say, hey, i

know, let's start conserving something. >> do you accept this as new conservatism? >> no. the gop needed to become the party of workers and donald trump is forcing that change. the tax incentive part is not ideal policy making, governors do it all the time. the truly extraordinary and from where i sit disturbing part of it to have a president-elect threatening companies for making business decisions he doesn't like. the fact of the matter is no one has a leverage to stop him from doing that and probably going to be -- >> paul ryan's house, will they roll over? he's threatening 35% tariffs, he did that again in a tweet. will paul ryan's house put up with that? >> there are affirmative parts of trump's agenda won't pass the house. but i think paul ryan and the house has the conception of trump is the guy that just signs their bills. that's not the way it will work and they will be following his

lead more than they expect and have seen it in the carrier deal. >> i have to say, he is a great storyteller. this is a narrative very appealing to a lot of people. >> it's a bad deal. the numbers are still coming out. you read the carrier letter, it started out to say, we're pleased to inform you and ended up talking about all the jobs still being shipped overseas, the numbers i am looking at say less than half of that are st staying. he was using other people's money, right, because he doesn't like paying taxes, and interest was pa a bad deal. the better way to say you're on the side of workers is look at tens of thousands of service sector jobs not going anywhere. i'd like to see him go to target or walmart and say, yeah, i support $15 an hour. >> interesting ways you both don't like the carrier deal for very different reasons and shows you the challenge trump is fa facing. when we come back, a month

since election day and nerves are still pretty raw on both si sides. kelly arne conway from trump world and joel ben nen son from team clinton. as we go to break i want to remember grant tinker, once chairman of nbc. married to mary tyler moore. he revamped nbc with "hill street blues" and "saint elsewhere" and the place where everybody knows your name. make them lighter? that the lubricants that improved fuel economy. even technology to make engines more efficient. what company does all this? exxonmobil, that's who. we're working on all these things to make cars better and use less fuel. helping you save money and reduce emissions. and you thought we just made the gas. energy lives here.