kevin?! try my new $4.99 blt cheeseburger combo. truce. a short-term funding deal to end the government shutdown. >> in a short while i will sign a bill to open our government for three weeks. >> democrats get what they demanded, talks without a wall. >> have i not been clear on a wall? okay. no, i have been very clear on the wall. >> no one should ever underestimate the speaker as donald trump has learned. >> mr. trump hints he may declare a national emergency to get what he wants. >> i will use the powers afforded to me under the laws and the constitution of the united states to address this emergency. >> but after 35 days what did president trump gain?

plus, our brand-new nbc news "wall street journal" poll, what affect did the shutdown have on president trump's approval ratings, and how do americans feel about where the country is headed right now? my guests this mortgage, kevin mccarthy, akeem jeffries and republican senator marco rubio. also the russia investigation as seven-count indictment of long time trump ally roger stone. details of the most direct connection yet between the trump campaign and wikileaks. >> i will lead not guilty to these charges. i believe this is a politically-motivated investigation. >> joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news senior correspondent tom brokaw, yamiche alcindor white house correspondent for the pbs news hour, hugh hewitt, and nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker. well to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this

is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. president trump now knows who the real leader of the democratic party is right now and he can't say nancy pelosi didn't warn him. remember this -- >> mr. president, please don't characterize the strength that i bring to this meeting as the leader of the house democrats. >> that was before she was officially speaker. this week the president learned all about that strength. first, when he backed down on giving the state of the union address this tuesday, and then again on friday, when mr. trump gave speaker pelosi what she had demanded, a reopen government, talks, and no wall. at least for three weeks. that concession by president trump came hours after robert mueller drew a clear line between the trump campaign and wikileaks when he indicted mr. trump's long time associate roger stone on seven counts. it was in short a very bad week for the president. we have a brand-new nbc news "wall street journal" poll completed before friday's events that indicates despite the drawn

out shutdown the president's base, though, has stuck with him. mr. trump's approval rating stands at 43% with 54% disapproving. it's exactly where it was a month ago before the shutdown. obviously we know that other polls have shown a notable drop in that time. but our poll also found a notable drop in another category, the right direction wrong track numbers, they are the worst of mr. trump's presidency with just barely a quarter of the country, 28%, saying that we are headed in the right direction. and that's reflected in this word cloud of how people feel about the state of america right now with words like wrong track, disappointed and disaster dominating the responses. again, all of this was before friday's stone news and the end of the shutdown that was widely seen now as pointless. so after 35 days of pain, frustration and anger over that shutdown, what did the president get that he could not have gotten on day one? >> i am very proud to announce today that we have reached a deal to end the shutdown.

>> president trump spent 34 days inn cysting the government would stay closed until congress approved billions of dollars for a border wall. >> $5.7 billion for a physical barrier. >> $5.7 billion. >> he's not negotiating with himself, he has said $5.7 billion. >> on day 35 with his numbers sagging in some polls, air traffic control stalling and some congressional republicans in revolt, he backed down, at least for now. >> president trump in retreat. >> unmistakably a surrender. >> the president gave in. >> no one should ever underestimate the speaker as donald trump has learned. >> and some conservative allies are calling the president a wimp. writing, trump blinks. >> he promised something for 18 months and he lied about it. >> it's clear trump did not come out on top, i'm not going to spin it for you. >> the president fired back. this was in no way a concession, if no deal is done it's off to the races. that last reference, his threat to declare a national emergency

if negotiators don't get a deal in three weeks. >> obviously we're going to do the emergency because that's what it is. it's a national emergency. >> and on friday mr. trump's long time confidant roger stone was indicted and arrested. charged with seven counts of lying to congress, witness tampering and obstruction. >> i will plead not guilty to these charges. i will defeat them in court. >> stone's indictment reveals the most direct link yet between the trump campaign and wikileaks, which distributed democratic e-mails that russian military intelligence stole from the dnc and the clinton campaign. the indictment includes this notable sentence "after wikileaks released stolen dnc e-mails on july 22nd, a senior trump campaign official was directed to contact stone about any additional releases and what other damaging information organization one, wikileaks, had on the clinton campaign." >> how many people could direct

a senior campaign official. >> stone then communicated with wikileaks through an intermediary. five days later -- >> russia, if you're listening. >> -- that same day, july 27th, russian hackers tried for the first time to hack into servers in clinton's personal campaign office. on october 4th stone told steve bannon, then the chief executive of mr. trump's campaign, that wikileaks had a serious security concern, but would release a load every week going forward. three days later, wikileaks began selectively releasing clinton campaign chair john podesta's e-mails. >> the allegation that two campaign officials instructed me or inquired of me about wikileaks is false. >> and joining me now is the house republican leader, congressman kevin mccarthy of california. welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me back. >> all right. on day one of the shutdown the president had a deal in front of him that was essentially a

continuing resolution for three weeks, no wall. that's the deal he agreed to on day 35. what was accomplished? >> well, nobody likes to go into a shutdown but the one thing i would see, especially if you're looking at winners and losers i don't know why someone would celebrate a status quo. i watched the president in every one of these meetings offer a reasonable solution. i watched then leader pelosi spend a new historical time on the floor of the house, eight hours, talking about daca. we don't have the daca solution involved when we could have. we still have a problem at the border, we don't have that solved. now we have three more weeks to go. i watched speaker pelosi sit there and would not negotiate with anything. i give president trump a lot of credit. he put the american people before politics. >> after 35 days. >> no, he did -- >> for 35 days, though, what did he get? >> well, i'm not celebrating getting something because what people are celebrating saying speaker pelosi is strong because she got status quo. that's w.h.o. the country wants. the country wants to find common ground. the president made four

different offers, it was speaker pelosi who said i wouldn't talk about anything. 35 days, 35 days of speaker pelosi not negotiating and the president finally said this is too much. if you say you will do something else i will open it up so the federal workers will be paid and let's see where you will go in three weeks. >> that was her stance, she will negotiate after you open up the government. >> no, her stance was not one dollar for a wall, we are not going to do anything, that it's immoral and i don't believe that's where her members are as well. if you listen to her own chair of agriculture said give trump the money. her chairman of armed services says walls work. even her number two says walls are not immoral. she is out of step with her own base. >> in three weeks the president is unlikely -- i mean, do you really believe you are going to get a grand compromise that somehow democrats will trade something temporary for something permanent? a permanent structure for temporary relief for some of these folks? do you believe that will happen in three weeks? >> well, if democrats have

always in the past voted for some barrier and now they are not going to because it's being offered by president trump, that's politics. that means we would still have a crisis at our border. if in three weeks they said before if you open it up then we'll negotiate, they won't, they are the ones causing the problem. they have changed the course of what they voted for in the past. speaker pelosi had voted for a wall and barrier. schumer voted for a wall and barrier but now they will not because it's president trump. >> the infamous gang of eight that you guys never brought to a vote did have extra if ensing in it, i believe it was 350 miles of extra fencing, had $46 billion in border security. what's wrong with gang of eight being the beginning of the negotiations? >> last year i spent more than a month, every single day in my office with durbin, with stiny, with the chief of staff of the white house and we tried to come together on an immigration bill. it was one of the hardest things ever to do, but when i see a crisis on the border, 500,000

people illegally enter our country -- when we are the most liberal bringing in a million people every year the way we should do it, i think this is an opportunity to not only solve a border crisis, but we've got kids here dealing with daca, they're both big issues, solve them right now. >> look, the only way to make it happen is if both sides are willing to buck their base. >> yeah. >> is the president actually willing to buck his base? he's never given an indication he is. he's threatening a national emergency. >> that is not true. the president is the only one who has been reasonable in these negotiations. chuck, i've been in every single meeting so i watched it. the president is the one who offered -- this president is the one who at the state of union went further on immigration than i have heard from a president clinton or even president obama. so, no, that is unfair. it was only the democrats who would interject when the secretary of homeland tried to talk about the current crisis. they didn't want to hear it. they didn't want to negotiate. they said nothing. it was the president that

offered four different plans. yeah, that moved further than i think this party has even looked. >> i want to play something from you. >> please. >> in november of 2016. >> i always love when i get -- >> i know you do. i think it's going to beg the question of what the heck took you guys so long. take a listen. >> and i put together the team actually with the speaker and others, our staff, working on legislation now so when we're sworn in not waiting until when the president is sworn in, but at the very first week of january how we are able to move the legislation needed to start building the wall. >> at the end of the day why should democrats bail out your party that had two years to figure out a way forward here? you said you were going to have legislation ready to go in 2017. what happened? >> we did. if you look at the appropriations, we are building the wall right now. a portion of it. we have to go further. >> then why did he shut down the government? >> he did not shut down the government. let's be very clear, we were in the house, in the majority, we

moved a bill to the senate. you know as well as everybody else in america it takes 60 votes. schumer is the one who said no. so you put it on -- >> it is daca for the wall is what the president backed away from. >> no, we passed this at the end of the last year. money for the wall, more money because we're already building it. we put another $5 billion in there, the senate had a different version and schumer said no so it got shut down. then what happened? the president stayed in washington, the speaker then went to hawaii, the president stayed there to negotiate. we brought meetings down, this he said they wouldn't talk about anything. we got into a shutdown that lasted longer than ever before. the president made four different offers that were reasonable. >> not until after he shut down the government. >> he didn't shut it down. >> he's the one that said he would be proud to own it. who else did it? he rejected the senate bill to keep the government open. >> no, the house had a bill, the is that hit a bill. like every other piece of legislation it takes 60 votes in the senate. republicans don't have 60 in the

senate. i think it would only be fair, chuck, to understand if it takes 60 votes in the senate there's probably blame on both sides. >> let's talk about this, in three weeks. >> yes. >> when i think you guys pass something that keeps the government open, i'm guessing you guys don't have -- you don't want to go through another government shutdown. a bunch of senators want to basically make it impossible to shut down the government, create -- senator warner has a bill, but all of them are basically never to cancel a paycheck again for a nonpolitical appointee. will you support something like that? >> yeah, but i will go further. do you want to know how you will never had a shutdown again, let's not pay the members of senate and congress. >> that's the mark warner bill. and all political staff. >> that's the amendment i would offer. because this only harms others. but think about this, the president offered four different reasonable texts, the speaker pelosi, then leader has a record for the longest speech on the floor, more than eight hours. one year ago next month about daca. he took two issues that are a problem and he wanted to solve

it. today you're trying to celebrate and say speaker pelosi is some type of winner in this. no, that means status quo. that goes against everything we know and want for america. we want to find common ground and solutions. >> very quickly, you have not appointed all members of the house intelligence committee on the republican side. >> i will next week. >> some people think you're trying -- it's helping to delay the transcripts that could get sent to mueller. >> no, nothing of the sort. the reason why committees weren't already imported, the democrats were not organized. they waited until after the speaker race, which republicans would never do, to give us the ratios. i have just now met -- >> intel is always the same ratio, in fairness. >> no, we had negotiations with the speaker changing. i just met with every single individual that i'm going to appoint on friday, so it will come out next week. >> all right. kevin mccarthy, republican from california, good to see you. thanks for coming on. >> thank you for having me. democrats have generally been careful not to taunt president trump too much after

the shutdown ended but they are making sure the public knows that they got what they wanted. >> we asked the president to open up government so we would have time to have a debate on the best way to protect our border. democrats are committed to border security and we think we have some better ideas about how to do so that protect our border, honor our values and are cost effective. joining me now is congressman akeem jeffries of new york. congressman, welcome to "meet the press." >> good morning. good to be here. >> okay. government is open, president trump caved, democrats won this fight, you heard kevin mccarthy say i don't know what you won, you won status quo. in three weeks how are we not in the same spot? >> it's important to understand that the legislative branch are stewards of managing public money, we can manage that money efficiently or waste taxpayer dollars. we concluded spending billions on a medieval border wall that would be ineffective would be a

waste of taxpayer dollars, that's a fifth century solution to a 21st century problem. what we want to support over the next few weeks is 21st century border security. so we're willing to invest in additional infrastructure, particularly as it relates to our legal ports of entry which as you know, chuck, is the place where the majority of drugs come in. we're willing to invest in personnel, and in additional technology. >> do you think a fence is medieval? >> well, i think from the standpoint of building a concrete bare remember from sea -- >> he took that off the table. is that progress? >> that's progress and hopefully he will stick to that position that he has taken. in the past we have supported, as you know, enhanced fencing and i think that's something that's reasonable that should be on the table, but i don't want to get out ahead of the process because there's a process that has been put in place, we've appointed distinguished members of the appropriations committee and there's three types of members of congress, democrats, republicans and appropriators. i think the appropriators can get this done. >> it's harkening back to where

we thought a bill would become a law. let me ask you this, if that compromise is something that doesn't have a majority of democrats but has a good chunk of them in the house, it can get through the senate and that's what happens, can you imagine democrats in the house allowing a bill on the floor that a majority of democrats didn't support, but could get some -- but could get through the senate and to the president's signature. >> well, the only thing i can imagine is making sure there is a bill that comes to the floor that's evidence-based in terms of securing our borders. i think that has been our perspective from the very beginning, along with the principle that shutdowns are not legitimate negotiating tactics when there is a public policy disagreement between two branches of government. >> you just heard kevin mccarthy come out and essentially endorse a bill that would eliminate the ability to do shutdown, he basically said you want to do it make sure the legislative branch doesn't get paid, i think that's

the mark westerner bill. is that bipartisan compromise? is this something we could see happen at least the never have a shutdown act? >> kevin mccarty is a good man but that seems to me to be a gimmick. we never hold hostage hard working -- >> do you want to legislate that, to make it so it can't be done am i more. >> i think we should take a long look to make sure we don't pursue shutdowns to extract leverage, whether that's a democratic or republican president. >> let me go back on what i was trying to get at. the republicans infamously had something called the hastert rule that referred to the former speaker of the house that if a majority of the majority party didn't support a bill they would never put it on the floor. do the democrats, the new democratic majority, have that same -- is there going to be a version of an unofficial rule like that. >> we haven't taken that position. we do want to work in a bipartisan way and want to do it on behalf of our for the people agenda. we've said we are going to fight hard for lower healthcare cost,

increased pay for every day americans, strengthen the affordable care act, protect people with preexisting conditions, enact a real infrastructure plan. we want to do that in a bipartisan way, trillion dollar infrastructure plan, we think it will create 16 million good paying jobs, republicans, democrats, even the president has supported the notion that we've got to fix our broken infrastructure. >> you didn't quite answer the question. you haven't decided whether that will be a rule or not? >> we have not had that discussion in caucus but we have discussed proceeding in a strongly bipartisan way on issues of importance to the american people. >> i want to see if you will respond to something speaker pelosi said in response to the roger stone indictment. let me put it up on screen. she said in the face of 37 indictments the president continued actions to undermine the special counsel investigation, raise the questions what does putin have on the president politically, personally or financially. she asked that question somewhat rhetorically. there's some democrats that are anxious to begin an impeachment inquiry today. at what point do you think it's appropriate? it's not appropriate right now.

we do have a constitutional responsibility to serve as a check and balance on an out of control executive branch. we take that responsibility seriously, however, we are not going to overinvestigate, we're not going to overpoliticize, we're not going to overreach as it relates to that sledge constitutional responsibility. what we are going to do is make sure we focus on the issues of importance to the american people. that's why elijah cummings is having a hearing this week on how we can lower the prescription costs. that's where ritchie niels is having a hearing on protesting people with preexisting conditions. >> congressman cummings is also starting an oversight investigation on security clearances that seem to have at least some connection to the mueller probe. >> we are going to take that responsibility seriously. i think the american people want to see checks and balances. we are a separate and co-equal branch of government. we don't work for donald trump, with he work for the american people. >> let me ask you this, i'm going to put up a tweet of yours, you've before referring to the president not as the president in your tweets, you refer to him as individual one. let me put up one here, for

instance, from last week. for decades individual one made a living stiffing his workers and contractors and now he's doing it to 800,000 federal employees and contractors. we must end reckless trump shutdown and continue our fight for the people. you refer to him as individual one. you called him the grand wizard. it seems you are a member of leadership, what's that line in your mind, why should the president negotiate with you if you're going to name call him? i know he name calls, why should he negotiate with you? >> it's colorful language and i think that the president is going to have to own his pattern of behavior that has taken place not year after year, but decade after decade. i do believe that we do need to find a way together to move forward, democrats and republicans, and, in fact, chuck, as you know i was able to work with the administration on criminal justice reform, democrats, republicans, progressives, conservatives, the left and the right. if we can do it on criminal justice reform i think we can find a way to move forward. >> do you regret your language?

>> i don't regret the use of the language. america is a great country, we've come a long way on the question of race, with he still have a long way to go. at the end of the day we are a nation of immigrants, some voluntary, others involuntary. i think it was dr. king who said we all came on different ships but we are in the same boat right now. i think that's the way to proceed. >> all right. hakeem jeffries, good to see you on the show. when we come back, mitch mcconnell is fond of saying there is no education in the second kick of a mule. what about the third? what has president trump learned after the first couple of kicks? the panel on that and a the stone indictment is next. if you're 65 or older, even if you're healthy, you may be at increased risk for pneumococcal pneumonia - a potentially serious bacterial lung disease that can disrupt your life for weeks. in severe cases, pneumococcal pneumonia can put you in the hospital. it may take weeks to recover making you miss out on the things you enjoy most.

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tom brokaw. >> i didn't want to be the kind of special -- isn't that special? i am -- >> i prefer -- >> i'm unqualified in terms of being senior. >> i prefer grand puba as the official title for you. anyway, let me put up headlines some conservative news organizations, trump lost the shutdown, trump caves, trump blinks. in usa today, this is the weakest moment of president trump's tenure in office. nan nancy pelosi looks like the commander in chief of donald trump. hugh, you have been hearing from the base, i'm sure. how bad is this for the president? >> not that bad. this is very premature. tom and i will remember that joe frazier won his first fight with ali and lost the next two.

we will remember that they went 41 out of the scheduled 42 rounds. this is the first round of a 42-round fight. i point out that the president's approval rating is now higher than ronald reagan's was at this time in the presidency. i looked at your word cloud. it says, sad, no compromise. what i heard from your guests is there the potential to go big and solve not just daca but everything. >> kristen, you are at the white house. is he -- >> he got so defensive saturday morning. no, no, no, no, it's not a cave. >> right. the white house is defiant, this was not a cave. the reality is, he knows his base is not going to be happy unless he gets funding for the wall. if you talk to allies they say, we don't see how this ends in any other way other than a national emergency, because he can't shut down the government again. here is the lesson i think for president trump. he went into this fight without

any strategy, without any plan. every day the president, the white house, they were looking for an off ramp, instead of trying to execute something they planned out very carefully. i think they are right mnow trying to figure out how to do it better. >> you will recall, everybody that knew trump for a long time said he actually enjoys not having a plan. he goes into battle and plan b is damned. tom, a month ago we were asking the question, who is the leader of the democratic party. i want to put up some quotes from people that weren't always so supportive of nancy pelosi becoming speaker again. aoc, speaker pelosi doesn't mess around. tim ryan, who challenged her, she's definitely up to the task. and grateful for our champion in washington, speaker pelosi. i think democrats have a leader. >> the fact is that going into this last election -- i have known her a long time. she's a very smart woman.

i wondered whether she was the best image for the democratic party. a lot of people said, she knows how to run things on the hill. she demonstrated that this past week. donald trump treated federal employees like poker chips. this time, his father wasn't around to bail him out. i think that hurt him more, by the way, than people realize. that was a whole crowd of people out there who were probably voted for him, suddenly, what they do is get their job jerked out from under them. a spoke to a senator who said it creeped into agriculture, because this time of the year the farmers are dealing with government agencies to plan for next year's crop. there was no one home to do that. the damage was really more systemic than people realize. >> the one piece of agreement i'm getting from everybody this morning is, i think they're going to eliminate the shutdown. the legislative -- >> the go >> this is the longest shutdown

in history, 35 days. people were i think at a fever pitch. airports were starting to show signs of stress was the beginning of what we would have seen. i was talking to a federal worker this weekend who said, monday, people might not have showed up to work. thousands more people would have been, i cannot do this anymore. think about the fact we talk about the president not having a plan. let's think about what he did for 35 days. he had a prime time special. he went down to the border. he then was possibly disseminating misleading information about the fact that there were drugs pouring in, our country was being invaded. after all of that, the president -- the polls show the president was the one being blamed. he was on video because of chuck schumer saying, i will own the shutdown. >> is that the lesson for the president? bully pulpit is starting to no longer be useful? >> i think that's the question. right? part of the strategy -- you heard leader mccarthy speak to this. they will try to pick off

democrats. white house candidate name any. he named a few. there's a lot of skepticism about that strategy actually working. look, he didn't deliver that prime time address until halfway into the shutdown. a lot of his allies say, if he had started off in the weeks before really selling this, trying to make his case, that would have helped. the question is going to be about semantics with this potential compromise they are looking for. can they find a word or phrase that allows him to declare victory on the wall and democrats as well? >> this isn't a one story town. in the middle of this three weeks, roger stone happens friday. let me put up -- the people in and around the trump campaign that have pleaded guilty or been indicted, it's a who is who of people around this president. manafort, gates, sto cohen, flynn, papadopoulos. that doesn't help your bully pulpit abilities either. >> no. especially given list image whenever he goes on television.

he has been dealing in the kind of fringe of the republican party and making himself out more than he is. i watched him the other day. i thought the perfect person to play him is marty short in some kind of a stage play. >> they have steve martin to do it on snl last night. his partner in crime there. roger stone is one of these people that you are -- sometime u.s. think, dsometimes you think, did he insert himself? he knows stuff about trump nobody else does. >> the supreme court takes judicial notice of what's happening. the trump campaign was taking judicial notice of what stone was saying. that indictment does not support but does not preclude collusion. >> the campaign official -- rick gates smells like one of them. he may be cooperating. >> absolutely. it chips away at the white house

and president's argument this doesn't touch him. >> all right. pause this. on the other side, i want to talk about broken washington. when we come back, i will be joined by a member of the senate intelligence committee, senator marco rubio of florida. >> "meet the press" is brought >> "meet the press" is brought carl, i as my broker...invite here. what am i paying you to manage my money? it's racquetball time. ♪ carl, does your firm offer a satisfaction guarantee? like schwab does. guarantee? ♪ carl, can you remind me what you've invested my money in. it's complicated. are you asking enough questions about how your wealth is being managed? if not, talk to schwab. a modern approach to wealth management. on average, we'll live move more in eleven homes. in the world.

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president trump is staking his reputation with his base on immigration. he is hinting he could declare a national emergency if there's no deal for wall funding in three weeks. if this week taught us anything, it's that the art of the deal president may need to adjust his

expectations. the last time congress was close to an immigration deal was 2013. the gang of eight tried and failed to get it done. two republicans who were in that gang still remain in the senate. lindsey graham, who said it would be the end of the trump presidency if he doesn't get a wall built, and my next guest senator marco rubio of florida. welcome back to "meet the pre " press." we went through 35 days. the president signed a deal that was the same deal available to him on day one, other than the end date of february 8 to february 15. what did this shutdown accomplish? >> well, hopefully it teaches everyone that shutdowns are not good leverage in any negotiation. i think it's important to separate tactics from the policy aims. there's missed opportunities in this. we could have had an extension of tps, a huge issue for people here in florida, the haitian community. we could have had a three-week extension for -- three-year

extension. daca, three years of certainty. it's better than right now, they are waiting for a court ruling and what the administration is going to do. hopefully, over the next three weeks, some of the elements can become part of what we do. most important of all, i truly believe that if the president can get strong border security that satisfies his -- what he want, it unlocks the opportunity to do other things on immigration that we need, like figure out something reasonable with the people that are not crimin criminals. we have to unlock that. it begins with border security. that's one reason why it's so important that we figure out a way to get something done that he is satisfied with so we can move on to the other issues that he has personally expressed a willingness to be involved in. >> the gang of eight said you need to lead with border security. i want to put up here, the 2013 bill had this. it doubled the number of border patrol agents, 350 miles of new

fencing, universal e-verify system, new tracking system and the deal was, the border security mesh wouasures would g immediately, the adjustment to immigration status for various groups would be phased in. didn't you guys have the model? is this deal worth taking off the shelf and making some minor adjustments? >> i think there's elements of it that we can -- the problem was, it was done in one big piece of legislation. the more stuff you put in a bill, the more reasons someone can find to be against it. >> some argue the other way, senator. make the bill bigger and, yes, okay, there will be things you don't like, but that's the only way to get some thing u.s you l. >> that's the theory pitched to me as to why we needed one comprehensive plan. it didn't work. one of the arguments was border security will never happen but the legalization will. there's no doubt it's a tough

issue. people looked at it in 2013 and said, this is easy, we're going to do it this way are figuring out how difficult this is. we have to deal with it. i believe that as you said, what the president wants is but a fraction of what that bill in 2013 did on border security. if we can get something done that satisfies it, i am confident the president is prepared to move forward on a bunch of other parts of immigration reform that people didn't normally associate with him or his white house. we have to do that part first. >> you have said you are opposed to the national emergency option. in three weeks, i know you have no appetite on either side of the aisle for another shutdown. if that's the only way to keep the government funded, he goes national emergency, how defiant are you on this option? will you fight the president on this or not? >> i don't think it's a good idea. i think it will be a terrible idea. i hope he doesn't do it. >> would you fight him on it? >> sure. because i think it's important -- i don't think we will have to fight. i'm not sure they will do that. it's an option they looked at.

you are at the mercy of a district court and ultimately an appellate court. it may not withstand if you look at some of the other rulings venlrulings. it's not a good precedent to set. it doesn't mean i don't want border security. i do. i think that's the wrong way to achieve it. it doesn't provide certainty. you could wind up in a theatric victory at the front and not get it done. the best way to do it is to have a law that funds border security so we know it's going to happen. >> i want to turn to venezuela. ask you -- first of all, you have been -- it's interesting. "the new york times" calls you the ouster in chief today. let me read you one part of this and get you to respond. the administration has given no indication of a clear plan to protect the united states embassy and its personnel against possible retaliation. while mr. rubio insists there are unspecified contingency options he will not reveal,

analysts say the administration is not prepared with a plan b in case mr. maduro fights. do you want this administration to use military power if necessary to back up mr. guaido? >> number one, i'm not the ouster in chief or anything like it. the credit belongs to the venezuelan people. this is their movement. this is about them. they are courageous and facing imprisonme imprisonment. the decider here is the president, who has never needed convincing on venezuela. do i offer ideas? sure. he has a team around him. he has never needed convincing. he has raised it with me, the issue of venezuela, more than i raised it with him. he cares about this. as far as the analysts saying there's no plan b, how would they know? we wouldn't -- the government -- trump administration is not going to publish a plan, here is what we're going to do to keep our phones safolks safe.

i have been in touch with the people in charge of this, they have a plan. they have several con ten againagain -- con continue again says. no harm should come to the diplomats. if it does, there will be consequences. as far as the military option, i don't know who is calling for that. i can tell you this, this applies to venezuela, anywhere in the world, the united states has always had the right to defend its national security and national interests with the use of force if necessary. i'm not saying that's what's going to happen here. i'm not specifying -- that's not my decision to make. i'm telling you, the preferred outcome here is that maduro leaves and in 30 or 45 days they call an election and they elect someone democratically and venezuela returns to constitutional order. that's what i want. >> i want to ask you one kwquic question on wikileaks. you stood alone among your party in 2016. let me play a clip for you from october of 2016 where you pledged never to use anything that came from wikileaks. take a listen.

>> i personally will not be talking about any revelations that come about as a result of wikileaks. our intelligence officials who are not partisan people have told us this is the work of a foreign intelligence agency. what i would say to my republican congresses, today it's them, today it could be us. >> if you work with wikileaks, are you working against america? >> look, i don't know if everybody had the same idea i did or had access to the same information i did when i said that. it should be clear by now that wikileaks and others like that could have been tools of foreign intelligence used to divide america. i believe anyone cooperating with them is doing the work of a foreign intelligence agency to harm us. i know what you are getting at with roger stone and all that. i can tell you -- frankly, i mean this in truth, not in a spirit nastiness, the media was unwitting in this, too.

the media reported breathlessly on a lot of the revelations leaked that we know were the product of the work of russian intelligence. all of u.s need to be wiser -- when we see this from a third party source that we don't know who it is, we have to be careful we are not doing the work of the russians or some other intelligence agency that is trying to underminue us. >> should it be a crime working with wikileaks? >> that's a good question. if you are witnessi iparticipat work of a foreign intelligence agency. one of the keys they do is they are -- it's not like they have a sign at the front door that says, we're -- we are an instrument of russian intelligence or being used by russian intel gligence for this. that's why i supported the special prosecutor. we will have all the facts and we can render judgment. it's a big mistake, trust me, to jump to any conclusions until mr. mueller's work is done.

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"end game" brought to you by boeing, continuing our mission to connect, protect, explore and inspire. >> back now with "end game." i think america feels like we all lost here. look at this word cloud. the state of america today, wrong track the biggest word. i joked on friday that if we have broken michael bennett, the mild mannered democratic senator from colorado, then everybody in the united states senate needs to ask how they are conducting themselves. michael bennett basically had his samuel l. jackson snakes on a plane moment on the floor of the u.s. senate. take a listen. >> it had $46 billion in border security in it. 46! not $5 billion for his rinky dink wall he is talking about

building. >> i think that's an incredible moment. it also is an example of how people were feeling i think all over the country. there were so many stories of families really trying to cobble together their last penny. you had this increasing feeling that the people that were part of the administration, including billionaire cabinet members, they didn't understand what were going on. wilbur ross' statements that he didn't understand why federal workers would go to food pantries i think really took the air out of a lot of people's lungs. there's been a growing gap between the rich and the poor in this country for a long time. it was really on display in that moment. i think him losing it on the senate floor was really a lot of americans saying, we can't take this anymore. >> i think it speaks to the fact that no one wins in a government shutdown. yes, everyone is saying the analysis is that the president caved and pelosi showed how strong she was. that's the politics. the american people don't feel that way. they are scratching their heads. they are wondering what all of this pain was for and frankly

how it can be prevented. that's why i think it's significant that leader mccarthy and congressman jeffries indicated willingness to support legislation to prevent this happening again. >> i didn't think you could widen the gap more until this happened. now it is completely gone. i told you earlier that i talked to the westerners who began by saying, like trump, like his policy. then they said, wish he would stop tweeting all of time. last time i talked to them, he is a clown, i can't stand him. but it's still the policies that we believe in. anywhere i go, republican, democrat, independent, why can't they find common ground? every community in america finds a way to build a school or to do something about downtown. here we can't do it because we breathe the same air and it's toxic toxic and how seriously people take their positions on

something. >> sad no compromise, the word cloud. go big and solve this. jared kushner is leading it. it's more important to shut down the maduro government than our government. donald trump is winning because of bolton and pompeo are winning. that's going to happen. that's going to bring us together. >> that is going to bring us together? getting involved in a latin american politics? >> absolutely. russia is against that. >> i understand. >> that will help. that will help. >> i think because there's going to be this committee of bipartisan leaders, there are what you are -- you will see people trying to talk about facts and maybe try to get on the same page. part of what that speech was about was this rinky dink wall is what he called it. i interviewed the mayor of mccallen texas. he said we don't need a wall. a wall is not going to solve our

issues. there's an issue here with people not understanding that facts aren't being agreed upon. >> the problem is in wyoming and south dakota, they think they need a wall. in texas and arizona, they don't. >> i know. >> right? >> a lot of this we don't want to talk about. the fact is on the republican side, a lot of people see the rise of an extraordinary important new constituency, hispanics, what will come here and be democrats. i hear when i push people harder, i don't know whether i want brown grand babies. that's what's going on. i happen to believe that the hispanics should work harder at assimilation. i've been saying for a long time that they out not to be codified in their community but make sure that all of their kids are learning to speak english and they feel comfortable in the communities. that's going to take outreach on both sides. >> congressman peter king in a conversation that i had with him spoke to sort of this remarkable moment in which we find

ourselves. he says what has to happen, both sides need to ignore the fringes. you have the far right and the far left screaming, yelling the loudest. to some extent, preventing compromise. >> there will be no compromise unless there's is a double layer fence 700 miles long. that's the minimum necessary. in exchange for that, regularization for 10 million people, not just daca, there's a big deal to be had. the extremists should be condemned. the fringe should be ignored. the base can get together. >> i would say we need to adjust what we think of as america. i grew up in miami where people speak spanish but the kids speak english. we think america can only speak english as if spanish wasn't part of america is troubling. >> we will leave it there. all spanish and all english. that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's

"meet the press."

when they finally receive all their back pay? we'll meet some trail bladesers who are bringing a deeper meaning to taking a hike. plus, it was black panther winnin b