this sunday northam digs in. virginia governor ralph northam refuses to resign. >> the person i was is not the man i am today. >> after denying he is in this photo from his medical school yearbook page. >> this is not my picture. i was not in that costume either as black face or as kkk. and it's not me. >> with the democrats universally denouncing northam, how can they get him to leave? i'll talk to two leaders of the congressional black caucus. plus, democrats divided on the best way to defeat president trump. on one side progressives like elizabeth warren. >> let's be really clear,

capitalism without rules is theft. >> on the other, moderates like michael bloomberg. my guest this ni the democrat who says he could be one to bridge that gap. also, the president, the speaker and the border wall. >> there's not going to be any wall money in the legislation. >> she's just playing games. so if there's no wall, it doesn't work. >> will president trump declare a national emergency? republican senator rick scott of florida is here. joining me for insight and analysis are eugene robson of j. rich laur, kumar, and mark. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is

"meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. when ralph northam beat ed gillaspie in virginia in 2017 it was a racially charged race that ralph won with strong support from african-american voters. >> not in a way that wounds, not in a way that divides. >> now his career may be over after this photo from northam's medical school yearbook page which emerged late friday. within hours northam apologized writing i am deeply sorry for the decision i made to appear as i did in this photo and for the hurt that decision caused then and now. but yesterday a reversal. northam said he's never seen ph. >> this was not my picture. i was not in that costume either as blackface or as kkk, and it's

not me. >> northam conceded that people will find it difficult to believe him. then perhaps underscoring that prediction, he revealed that he had worn blackface before. >> that same year i did participate in a dance contest in san antonio in which i darkened my face as part of a michael jackson costume. i look back now and regret that i did not understand the harmful legacy of an action like that. >> northam's political future is clearly in peril. vifrp wale the entire democratic establishment has called for his legislation. and northam's press conference only accelerated those calls. b obama. the political climate has clearly changed. democrats in particular are showing zero-tolerance especially among their own for behavior that they have preside.

and if northam won't go on his own, what do democrats do? joining me now are two members of the congressional black caucus. karen bass of california is the chair of cbc, and also participating in politics going back to the mid-90s. welcome to poeboth of you. i know you've called for his resignation. is there anything that he could do that would somehow convince you to give him more time in friend. we were elected to the same senate at the same time. but, look, he's lost the authority to lead. he's lost the authority to govern. he has to resign. it's in the best interest of the commonwealth. it's in the best interest of the party. >> congressman bass, why is this so important nationally in your mind for governor northam to go?

>> well, because i think he's been completely dishonest and disseng dissengenuous. he knew this picture was there, and he could have come clean and talked to african-americans he knew decades ago. and i think given the overall climate of race in this country especially given the last two years it's completely unacceptable. the good news, though, is there a zero-tolerance and people understand. and he needs to resign immediately to stop the pain in virginia and frankly around the nation. >> congresswoman bass, i want t quickly left office then this gets quickly swept under the rug and we don't have a conversation. the trying to make staying in office in oming to d forces a conversation we don't normally have on race. >> no, he's forcing the wrong conversation. what he should do is resign and then if he has any integrity at all, he should participate in that conversation.

he was completely disingenuous when he talked about he didn't understand this in 1984 and this is commonplace. he's basically saying he participated in it, and especially describing the time he did the michael jackson impression. and he was willing to moonwalk until his wife stopped him, which shows he still does not understand the seriousness of his actions. >> congressman keecham have you talked to him? >> i haven't spoken to him since friday, i believe, and that's how he was apologetic for having been in the photograph and that sort of thing, s i was really surprised the next day he comes out and says that was not him. that was quite a surprise pooto. >> i want to play something else

he said, and that is he was talking about the climate of the '80s where he grew up. here he is, governor northam. >> while i did not appear in this photo i am not surprised by its appearance in the yearbook. in the place and time where i grew up many actions that we rightfully recognize as abhorrent today were commonplace. >> congressman, this is one year before the state of virginia made history at that time and african-american statewide officeholder in doug wilder's lieutenant governor in 1985. 1964, that would have made sense to me. 1984 in eastern virginia, this is the son of a judge and a schoolteacher, mind you. is that an explanation that you can accept? >> no. my family's been from virginia, and i've lived in the richmond area since third grade. and i can tell you to the best of my knowledge it was not commonplace in 1984.

but let's concede it was indeed commonplace. slavery was commonplace. that doesn't make it right. massive resistance was commonplace, that doesn't make it right. jim crow was commonplace, that doesn't make it right. and so too if blackface was commonplace in 1984, that doesn't make it right. northam should have known better. >> the fact he won't leave, as i said there's only two people technically that haven't caed for his regn t current lieutenant ic it's unde would be directly benefit, so he's been hesitant to fully for the resignation. what other ways are there to get him out of l, that's up to the legislators, but i believe that they can impeach him. and i think that that is a perfect example of extending the pain. if he was sincere at all, he

would recognize the pain that he has caused. but the way he described 1984, i mean that is just so not true. 1984 was a time of great hope. we were hopeful that we would have the first black president. that was in the middle of jessie jackson's campaign in the middle of the anti-aparthide movement. so he's basically shown he's not honest. he needs to resign. and if he has any way he could regain his integrity, he should resignnd begin the conversation. >> his argument is, look what -- his first executive order is expanding what is discrimination in the state of virginia, and that his explanation is when it's counted he's been on the right side of these issues. where does that fit in here as you make these determinations about his future? >> you know, we're certainly

grateful for the contributions he's made to the betterment of virginia. but the question now is can you lead, can you help us heal? and given the actions he's demonstrated over the past 48 hours the answer is clearly not. it can't be you in the photograph one day and not the next day. you can't excuse it all and saw i know i didn't do blackface in this yearbook because i did it in a michael jackson dance contest. and by the way, i don't know if anybody heard it besides me, but his notion you can't get polish off your face easily suggests to me that was not the first time he had tried blackface. >> that jumped out at me, too, congressman. it was something i was going to yeah, that was something ter. you were going why do you have such familiarity with it. >> but he's also been inconsistent. he was great after charlottesville in terms of the confederate monument and then he backtracked on that, saying

maybe we shouldn't get rid of them, maybe it should be a local decision. he's been inconsistent. >> i'd love for you to tell us about justin fairfax. if he becomes the next governor, the day before he took the oath of lieutenant governor his father had done some research in his family trees and found the mission papers that freed his ancestteres. and he said it was the manumission papers for my three greats ago fairfax in 1798 and he was freed by the ninth lord fairfax. and so as i raised my right hand to take the oath of office i had the papers that freed my grandfather. the name comes from his desce descendants slave owner. >> should he ascend to the be

fantastic governor. and

but as i said he should do it as a private citizen. >> what does it say that something like this is now -- folks are now being held accountable for blackface in ways, frankly, we didn't have that kind of -- that strong of a moral code, i would argue, in our politics until recently. why do you think that is? >> well, i think this country hasn't dealt well with the issues of race. we have a president who's a racist who we have -- >> let me pause you there. you believe in his heart he's a

racist? >> well, i don't know what in his heart means. i know he built his political career knowing what he was doing on questioning the legitimacy and the birthplace of the president of the united states. i know early there's been all kinds of news reports what he did early in his career on housing. read the new jim crow by alexander and the decades of housing discrimination. and we know the trump family to deepened that. so these issues that this is not a only a symptom and only a more public viewing and outing, if you will, about the p i mean, tre's just no question about that. we know the president doesn't tell the truth frequently. we know he lies frequently, and

we know of his racist comments and background. that's not even counting the policies of this administration. we have consent decrees all over this country including in cleveland. we have a justice department that's turned its back on it. we know about voter suppression. my job when i was secretary of state was to encourage people of all races to vote, especially young people and especially young people of color. and we worked at that. we now have a government that suppresses the vote, and we know what happened in georgia and we know what happened in florida. >> one of the ways you've talked about your potential candidacy for president while you were in iowa, you talked about talking to working class voters that you thought democrats had been ignoring. there is a racial component to that conversation as far as some are concerned, that the white working class vote, it's a cultural reason that even though the democratic policies, maybe they agree with but there are

cultural reasons why they're not comfortable with the democratic party. how do you bridge that divide, because it feels like race plays a role in this. >> listen to what we've been saying whether it's in iowa or i'm going to south carolina a couple of weeks or my hometown of cleveland where connie and i lived in a racially mixed neighborhood, of course. when you talk about work, i'm talking about all workers, whether you swipe a badge or punch a clock, whether you're working on salary, working for e work or after work, whether you're raising kids. and always recognizing women and people of color have even more challenges in the workplace in terms of wages, in terms of benefits, in terms of schedules where they arrange child care and their employer then changes the hours that they're working. so the dignity of work is clearly all workers of this country. and if it's -- it's a pitch to the broad numbers of people in this country that aren't treated

well, that don't -- that work hard every day and simply aren't getting ahead. if you love your country you'll fight for the people who make it work across all races, and that's the theme of my campaign. if i do run for president, certainly the theme of the dignity of work. >> you know, you said something else to yahoo news earlier this week. you were talking about your recent re-election in ohio. you said there are 88 counties in ohio. i won 16 of them and i won the state by seven points. but in many of those other 72 counties we got emas collated. they w what did you mean by emasculated there, and what is the divide? >> that may not be the exact right word. maybe massacred, maybe blown away. what did president obama say after the elections he had a good word how we didn't do well in some states. one of the reasons in iowa we

started in 15 below zero weather, and went to mason city and went to smaller towns because wall street overlooks the by-passes of those towns and state and federal government just ignores those towns. those towns are often racially mixed. this isn't a diverse metro area versus a white rural area. these are small towns that are hurt from globalization, hurt from a tax policy, and the president's tax law you shutdown production where we were this week and had a great turn out. you shutdown production in dubuque and move overseas, you get a 15% in taxes. >> i want to talk about some of the issues that could divide democrats a bit. one of the is the issue of university health care. and you've got some calling for medicare for all. you've got michael bloomberg who

almost seems to share a little bit of your frustration when it comes to overpromising. take a listen to what michael bloomberg said in responding to a whole bunch of these ideas. >> i'm a little bit tired of listening to things that are pie in the sky that we're never going to pass, never going to afford. i think it's disingenuous to promote those things. >> you seem to say you're asked about medicare for all, and while you said kind things about it, you seem to express a similar frustration. we talk about it, talk about it, make no progress. that's a mistake. how do you campaign on incrementism when some voters want some big bold change that probably is difficult to follow through? >> nobody accused me in my career of being an incrementist, i always fought for bold change. i live in a state where trump's promises of bringing back jobs and reindustrialization has

clearly fallen. i know a lot about a president overpromising and breaking those promises and selling out and betraying workers. but let me answer the question this way. one came up to me in dubuque and her husband had died of cancer, she is very anxious about what happens to her he c i want to e. i'm for universityal coverage. i did for years pay my own insurance. if we move -- i have helped senator whitehouse of rhode island. i want to help people quickly. i want to pass medicare at 55 or even 50 so she can get coverage and her life can improve and she can have that anxiety alaid so she can have a better life with

her kids and grandkids. that's what i want to see done. >> all right, senator brown, unfortunately i have to leave it there. much appreciate you coming on and sharing your views, and we hope to see you first when you make your final decision. thank you, senator. when we come back why the ralph northam ♪ ignition sequence starts. 10... 9... guidance is internal. 6... 5... 4... 3... 2... 1... ♪ your mornings were made for than psoriatic arthritis. as you and your rheumatologist consider treatments, ask if xeljanz xr is right for you. xeljanz xr is a once daily pill

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the lights can keep on shining. thanks to our natural gas. a smart partner to renewable energy. it's always ready when needed. or... not. at bp, we see possibilities everywhere. to help the world keep advancing. welcome back. the panel is here. eugene robinson, maria theresa kumar, rich laur, and mark, chief national correspondent for "the times" magazine. to reinforce this notion that's pretty much no one left in the democratic parho called on northam, we have to do a scroll. and these are just the prominent

folks. you'll see j ceyn there as wel chimed in. he's a virginia resident. eugene robinson, the only two people left are justin fairfax and barack obama. i feel like barack obama is the closer here, the last hostage negotiator to call on come on, governor northam. >> you would think that the two sitting senators, tim kaine and mark warner plus bobby scott, you think them calling in and saying you've got to go would have done it. because the entire democratic party ipvirginia is against him, says he has to go. he's supposed to be the governor of virginia. you can't do that. i mean, how do you effectively govern the state of the virginia? and the answer is you cannot if you're ralph northam. you probably could not after friday you definite after -- >> press conference made it worse. >> absolutely made it worse.

>> if there's one thing i've learned covering donald p and h life-span can be very short. there are some who say we has to accept he's going to be a lonely purya who's weak and ineffective. but he could stay in that job because the sledge accelerator would have to impeach him. i'm not setting aside what he should do. every democrat says what he should do is step down. what he could do is hunker down for the next six months and accept he's going to be ineffective. >> because the word should it's confined very much to one party. you could say steve king should resign, donald trump should have stepped out of the race in 2015. the fact is one of the safest jobs you can be in america is a public figure if you're only accountable only to voters. >> i think the difference between the individuals that you

mention is the democratic party has really demonstrated the brand. they actually said, look, we are going to be a zero-tolerance party. that is why al franken had to go to go. and the reason has to be a zero-tolerance party is a lot of folks will say he did this when he was 24, now it's 35 years ago. do we want to have this conversation when two years ago we had ticki torches marching down -- >> and 1619 in jamestown as congressman mceachin mentioned, that's going to be going on all year, marking that day, all year. >> you went to uva, went to public schools in northern virginia. you are virginiaen through and through. i'm just curious how are you feeling? >> well, not a great day for virginia. i had no use for ralph northam

prior to this. i found his comments on abortion totally repellent. last week torched his credibility on this. i do think outside of northam and other specifics of this case, there's also other things in play how he's been handling, i'm also concerned about political culture where lapses are used to entirely define someone's life and career, especially if there's no evidence they're part of the pattern. >> eugene, that to me is sort of what we're struggling with. we have zero-tolerance, and yet his record on the public square was pretty good. >> so we could have had this discussion, you know, at another time. you could have had this discussion when he was running for governor. we could have had this discussion, this information out there for voters to use as they decided who to vote for governor. he was elected -- he would not have been elected had not african-americans in virginia voted overwhelmingly for him.

i mean, it just -- that's how the electorate works in virginia. and so it's pastime -- had he disclosed this question, now, he says i didn't know about my own yearbook page photograph, which is not credible. >> but he did know about -- >> but he did know about the shoe polish and michael jackson. >> i think the crux of the issue really is, is the democratic party going to espouse any leeway for this to happen? for them to even be the party of authenticity, the party of the future, they're going to name every single voter coming into the 2020 election. if they allow any kind of movement their coalition breaks down and they have to be clear we are moving forward. >> democrats aren't struggling with that. democrats have made up their mind about what they want.

my question for ralph northam is what do you want? because if you want to be governor and be not effective, and you're not chair of the dga, my friend, you're not going to get a spot at the speaking convention, do you want to stay in the governor's mansion no matter what or be someone who has these conversations to heal? >> inject a little cynicism into this conversation. we are in washington. this is gimme for democrats, because the lieutenant governor has much more political upside. he's a compelling figure arb an african-american with a great story, and he can run again after serving out the rest of northam's term. so politically this is easy. >> to follow up on it, if the lieutenant governor were republican right now, i think the resignation would be there, but would we have a different reaction? >> i don't think so. i don't think the reaction would be different. and again especially after yesterday i think people who watched and listened to that press conference yesterday lost

confidence in -- >> i was going to play the moonwalk moe' low on time. but the moonwalk moment you're like what did i just see. >> it's a car crash. >> thank god for the first lady. >> what he was a democratic senator and there was a republican governor of virginia? that would be a different conversation. the fact is i don't think this is settled law in the democratic party. i think this is settled law within politics. i think there are a lot of gray areas here. and if you talk to people who have jumped out of the ring, there's garry hart, and al franken. they will say that they struggled with whether they should get out or not -- >> the american public are sick and tired of having to rehash the conversations. you actually have to weed it out. >> i think you have to make some allowance because we're human beings for accept sincere og may have done

blackface. >> and friday night when this all breaking and you couldn't get in touch with the governor's office if your life depended on it, and then he came out and said i didn't do that racist thing, but i did another racist thing. so i think there are some people questioning how sincere he was. >> he's not going to be on the ballot box. >> never, no. if we weren't talking about something that in 1884 or 1934 or something like that, i think i would have perhaps a different reaction. i would perhaps accept his oh, well everybody did it. but everybody didn't do that in 1984. it's just simply the case, everybody didn't do that. everybody didn't put shoe polish on their face. again, the state of virginia was one year from making history. when we come back, that when we come back, that might mean a trip back to the doctor's office just for a shot.

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welcome back. with two weeks for the president and congressional leaders to make a border deal, republican using his exit onnell is ramp, a means avoiding a shutdown and >> i'm for whatever works, which avoiding the president feeling he should declare a national emergency. >> i tth we'll have to do that. but we will at the same time be building -- regardless we're building a wall and we're building a lot of wall, but i can do it a lot faster the other way. >> joining me now is republican senator rick scott of florida. and i say senator because this

is his first time on the show as senator. senator, welcome. and have you decided like a bunch of other senators that you miss the old title? >> chuck, it's a different job. i ran for the job because i w v. >> let's start with this frustrating topic. it's ironic, you h shutdown. all of these new members elected in 2018 taking an oath -- talk about dysfunction. doesn't that undermine the negotiate eggs that are happening now on capitol hill? >> well, first off i don't think it's the first thing you want to do is use your emergency power to do things like this. but if i was the president right now, i'd be pretty frustrated. everyone says, oh, gosh, we don't want government shutdown, and everybody says we need border security. and you see nancy pelosi sit down and say there's not going

to be money for a wall, and say you have to have barriers. there's just a lot of hatred up there for president trump on the democrat side. and we've got to get something done. he's proposed thing. chuck schumer and nancy pelosi are not negotiating with him in good faith, i don't believe. so if i were sitting in his position i would go out there and say i'm going to use whatever power i have to solve the problem. we need to have a permanent solution for tps. let's go start solving these problems instead of talking, talking and nothing gets done. >> tps, by the way, temporary protected status in quite a few communities in florida and central immigrants in particular in that. i want to ask you about something you just said. you said nancy pelosi and chuck schumer were being disingenuous and the president wasn't.

he walked away from two deals on the table, and why should democrats trust the president? daca for the wall, and the president walked away from that. and senator mcconnell thought he had a deal at least to avoid a shutdown and the president walked away from that. is this really just on the democrats? doesn't president trump own some of this disingenuousness? >> everybody does. everybody's got to act in good faith. everybody's got to stop saying this is all about -- if this is about winning and losing, it's not. the public wants border government shutdown. you know, i ran basically saying we've got to change directio iam limits. you do a shutdown, you don't pass a budget, congress shouldn't get paid. we've got to make sure people start working together, and i think everybody's got to figure out how to do that, and i'm going to try my best to be part of that. >> what is it you think is a

reasonable compromise at this point? would you advise the president to take half of the money he's asking for at this point, actually come to a compromise, acknowledge a divided government? i know you and him are professionally very close. >> what i would say to him is we have to have border security. from i want a permanent fix. let's fund and let's talk to -- which i did a week or so ago. i sat down with border security. what do you need? they need people, th technology, they need barriers. we need to do a permanent -- i think what i like is to fix everything. fix that, welcome our dreamers, permanent solution for tps. but i'd start the path. what i did as governor what could i get done today, and i did it, and i went forward with the next thing. >> there is a compromise on the shelf. your colleague marco rubio in the senate was essentially one of the sponsors and organizers of it.

the gang of eight compromise of 2013, you were governor of florida at that time. what's wrong with that compromise? it had new barriers, it dealt with daca. as michael bennett said very dramatically on the senate floor, it had $46 billion in border security funding, not just $5 billion. >> well, first of all, i want to thank marco rubio because i know he's been a big proponent of taking care of the dreamers and trying to fix tps and working on border security. i think we need to look at all the provisions, and look at things like that and do a big done. i do not want government shutdown, i want to have border security. people have to stop being actors and sit down and get something done. we shouldn't going go to a negotiation like nancy pelosi did and say there's going to be no money for a wall. there has to be border security.

>> if the president doesn't want to do national emergency but won't sign this deal, you're stuck with a shutdown. what do you do as a senate republican? >> i think it's going to be tough. i think it's going to be very difficult. i was very frustrated asduring . but our coast guard, part of the military didn't get paid, and we had a bill sponsored to do that and chuck schumer stopped that, even. there's so much hatred up there right now and people aren't working together. we've got to stop and say let's act in the interest of the american public instead of how do i win the next election. >> i want to switch gears here. the issue of venezuela, which is the line -- the president has not ruled out sending the military in. we've sent humanitarian aid in. i assume it has some military protection as we send that aid in. when do you think it is appropriate to send in the american military to overthrow maduro? >> if maduro understands that

that is an option, and if he actually believes that's an option, and world leaders all over are telling him you've got to step aside and you see those protesters yesterday, then i think hopefully he'll step aside -- >> do you think the president needs to be more aggressive and threatening the use of force? >> no, i think they've been clear. i think they've been clear that everything's on the table. i mean, we're seeing -- look at the number opeople that protested again yesterday. we're starting to see the military move now, which is the key right now. that's the only thing that's propping up maduro and the cuban thugs that are there. so i'm optimistic something is going to happen. i spoke to juan guaido last week. the kids have malnutrition. i heard stories on friday from a lot of swen swalens. and you can't believe why would

mudu maduro be doing this to his citizens. everything's got to be on the table. >> all right, rico sharing your views, sir. when we come back, for decades politicians like to claim there's just little claim there's just little difference between the two ron! soh really? going on at schwab. thank you clients? well jd power did just rank them highest in investor satisfaction with full service brokerage firms...again. and online equity trades are only $4.95... i mean you can't have low cost and be full service. it's impossible. it's like having your cake and eating it too. ask your broker if they offer award-winning full service and low costs. how am i going to explain this? if you don't like their answer, ask again at schwab. schwab, a modern approach to wealth management. for each job exxonmobil creates, many more are created in the community.

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consider in 1987 only 25% of respondents said the same thing. right now, though, this divide seems just fine. particularly with republicans. in fact, they want more separation from the 57% of republan moderate. only 39% think it should be more democrats, on the other hand, though, seem to be a bit more uneasy about the party's move to the left. only 40% of democrats, not a majority, think the party should be more liberal. that's not something you'd like to hear if you were, say, bernie sanders or elizabeth warren. 54% says the party should take a more moderate route. do any of these divides provide an opening for a viable third party candidate? according to a gallop poll from the fall, 57% of americans still believe that a third major party is necessary. in this poll it includes 54% of

democrats, the same percent who want democrats to be more moderate. looking at this data we can expect more of the same from president trump heading into the 2020 election. he knows what his voters want and it's not moderation. we keep hearing of democrats merging to the left, that may be true, but this suggests party goers may want something a bit more moderate. and when we come back, we'll look at the fight for the democratic nomination and at the looming deadline for another government shutdown. >> "meet the press compressed ♪ ♪ this simple banana peel represents a bold idea: a way to create energy from household trash. it not only saves about 80% in carbon emissions... it helps reduce landfill waste. that's why bp is partnering with a california company:

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back now with end game, there's a lot of other stuff to get to. hallie jackson, the president

seemed to have a third option. his national emergency governmenttion shutdown or he has just say the wall's been built. >> the chant now should pea finished the wall as opposed to building the wall, because we're building a lot of wall. we haven't declared a national emergency yet and yet we're building a lot of wall. we have a lot of appropriation, it's already been done. >> is there a white house strategy? i know that's -- >> i mean, listen there is in the sense they're keeping this national emergency idea in the president's back pocket. i don't know it's going to happen tuesday night at "state of the union." i think there's some question marks around that particular piece of it. i do think here's what i see when i talk to my sources in the administration and sources on the hill. the common area is it's fencing. we are now in the semantics argument of what is a wall and when is it a barrier.

there are people in the white house who would be happy with the idea of fencing. there are democrats who have now signaling increaseingly okay wih the idea of fencing. this could beong there's not some last minute curve ball from president trump. >> it's obvious how this deal looks like. >> he goes back and forth on messaging. either it's being built or we need to shutdown the government or declare a national emergency to build it. you just take what you can get in this negotiation, do the same next year and then you have a convention video with this slat fence that will look quite impressive and that seems to me the most realistic alternative. because the national emergency is not another way to win, it's just another way to lose. even if you win in the supreme court, that's 12, 18 months of nothing happening. >> you said the word realistic,

and so that's so last century. that's not the trump presidency. so, yeah, that deal is obviously there. and it's about semantics. but will the president take it or will he blow it up at the last minute? and i think he probably will -- >> mitch mcconnell actually led a vote into the floor, and i think the challenge for the president is he knows the majority of americans want this, but do his pundits, the people in his ear want it? do the rush limbaughs of the world want it, and that is his challenge. >> if he tries to do this a semantics thing to say this wall has already been built, he will be mocked by his base. it might be like the rank and file, but this will accept him to a great degree, and he'll be seen as weak and it'll embarrass him. >> i want to pivot to 2020. we had a lot happening this week. the howard schultz was among them, cory booker getting in. the question is which way

democratic primary voters will bet. on some boring centrist who will never even try to deliver the radical change so many of them crave -- that's probably as good of an expression of this divide as any. >> sure. because i cover the white house and donald trump, on the campaign side for that, sources sort of familiar with that, you know who they're looking at very interestedly is howard schultz just as much as democrats are as well. buzz that changes a lot of the ways they're going to go strategies and plan and do some of their -- >> are they looking at him with enthusiasm? >> obviously enthusiasm. it changes the way they would end up doing some of the things in their strategy moving forward. >> howard schultz is sort of a budding campaign. it's not official. but they did some polling. they did polling following this week where he got beaten, the

living daylight out of him in the media, there's two match ups of trump, harris, schultz and trump, warren schultz. this is poll conducted after the roll outs. essentially trump and harris tied, schultz sitting at 17. the point they wanted to make sure is, hey, even horrible rollout where he got battered less and sometimes right, he's still sitting in the mid-teens, which their argument shows you how much room there is for an independent. >> well orb its the half castro. look, is he trying to make the point of the democrats, because they could be up by 7, 8 points in these polls and yet you have donald trump in the lead. so it's hard to see what they're trying to do here except he has gained some traction. >> there is room for him. >> room for him to lose. there's no path for him to win

the presidency. there just isn't. >> and for the democrats to lose, i think what the democrats are really counting on is more of a piece of the nominee on their end to bring in a lot of independent and moderate americans who do not like where their party is going. schultz basically tears that way away. >> if you're really worried about this liberal democratic good standing the day before standing, cleaving off enough moderate voters to swing the election, moderate on some issues. and that's one thing basically the democratic party seems to have zero interest -- >> no, what's happening in the democratic party is about interest. it's very healthy, very good. to talk about actual issues -- you know, universal health care has been democratic policy for -- >> that could end up being the biggest issue come iowa note. please join myself along with my colleagues and the entire nbc news team on tuesday for the president's "state of the union"

address. our live coverage will begin at 9:00 eastern, 6:00 pacific. that's all for today. thank u watching. enjoy the super bowl. for everybody except in new orleans enjoy the exhibition game. >> missed highlights of the show, catch up with "meet the press" compressed. find it on our twitter page at meetthepress.com. at redfin, we charge you a 1% listing fee. and because redfin.com is america's #1 brokerage site our agents get more eyes on your home so you sell for thousands more than the one next door. don't get stuck in the past. sell with a redfin agent.

fortunately our defense really played the best game they have all season. and it was just an incredible win. >> yeah, look at those smiles. another year, another ring. the patriots' defense locks horns with the rams and walks away with a win. the biggest moments from the lowest-scoring superowl in history. no love for adam levine.

why maroon 5's halftime show failed to catch fire on social media. plus a recap of the biggest commercials from the big game. > blackfacegovernor. his response to the growing outrage this morning. yolks over. hulu cracks the case of the egg that broke instagram. who was behind the social media