this sunday the democrats debate. joe biden responds to criticism he touched women in ways that though not sexual made some uncomfortable. >> i get it. i hear what they are saying. i understand. i'll be much more mindful. >> but declines to apologize saying he never meant to be disrespectful. >> i'm not sorry for any of my intentions. i'm not sorry for anything i've ever done. >> and jokes about it in a public appearance. >> i just want you to know i had permission to hug lonnie. >> as the list of candidates grows, democrats debate whether biden is the right choice or whether it's time for a new generation of leaders. >> you could argue it doesn't get more different from this president than a laid back

intellectual gay mayor from the midwest. >> this morning i'll talk to a candidate enjoying a surge in polling and media attention, south bend mayor pete buttigieg. >> the border. >> it's full. you can't come in. our country is full. >> democrats demand to see his taxes and the full mueller report. i'll talk to utah republican mitt romney in his first appearance as a u.s. senator. also, unfriending social media. why americans are fed up with twitter and facebook but just can't stay away. joining me for insight and unless are hugh hewitt, heather mcghee, democratic activist and senior fell oh at think tank and editor of daily washington newsletter jake sherman and anna palmer. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck

todd. good sunday morning. there is a truism in american politics that has enormous implications for the 2020 presidential race. when we elect new presidents, they are in many ways the polar opposites of the outgoing president. we followed watergate soaked richard nixon with i'll never lie to you jimmy carter. when the job seemed too big for carter we repleased him with breezily confident ronald reagan. later the buttoned down george h.w. bush before being beaten by saxophone baby boomer bill clinton, led to george w. bush shoes shoot from the hip style led to obama succeeded by blow the place up, donald trump. which is positioned to be best polar opposite of president trump. there have been 14 all viewing

to be that anti-trump candidate. mopping them, 37-year-old south bend mayor pete buttigieg having the kind of moment that may not have been seen from the democratic party since a peanut farmer came out of nowhere in 1976. this week the democrat's center of gravity joe biden. the issue not so much whether he's going to run but in this new progressive democratic party, whether he should. >> i just want you to know, i had permission to hug lonnie. >> former vice president joe biden appearing before a friendly union audience on friday joked twice about accusations by women who say he has made them uncomfortable with unwelcome though not sexual physical contact. >> by the way, he gave me permission to touch him. >> for some of his accusers, it was proof despite his video earlier this week. >> i get it, i get it. >> that biden doesn't get it. >> it was for me like a slap in the face.

he say i get it, it's it. i believe in women. i advocate from women. that's not what i saw from the speech. >> afterward biden did some damage control but he did not apologize. >> i'm sorry i didn't understand more. i'm not sorry for any of my intentions. i'm not sorry for anything i have ever done. >> the controversy is given new oxygen to questions whether biden who came of age politically during the 20th century can lead an increasingly diverse democratic party in the 21st. >> do you believe the vice president should enter this race? >> he's going to have to make that decision for himself. >> on friday biden took a shot at the new left. >> the definition of progressive now seems to be changing. it is are you a socialist. that's a real progressive. do you believe in, you know, whatever. >> biden like bernie sanders would enter the white house as the oldest president in american history. he also outpolls trump among

self-described moderates and i understand and competitive among rust belt voters and president trump is paying attention. >> i said, general, give me a kiss. i felt like joe biden. >> for democrats eager for a nominee who is the antithesis of donald trump, forced to apologize. sanders answering whether people on his campaign were involved in assault. >> during the campaign you didn't know about the allegations, correct? >> i was a little busy running around the country making the case. >> beto o'rourke is commenting about his wife and sometimes raising his own kids. pete buttigieg us apologizing for comments. a reminder democrats are looking high and low for an alternative

to president trump. >> it's unusual for it to even be plausible a 37-year-old midwestern mayor is giving interviews about candidate for president. something is happening that calls for something completely different. >> joining me is the mayor of indiana who is technically still exploring a presidential bid, pete buttigieg. mr. mayor, welcome back -- welcome to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me on. >> we say exploring. i know you have an announcement prepared a week from today. >> that's right, in south bend. looking forward to it. >> is there any reason to believe i'll not be running for president? >> no, the kind of thing we're going to announce is the thing you only get to announce once. i hope a lot of supporters will be there in south bend. >> what does something completely different mean? i say this in this respect. donald trump came in as the most inexperienced president in history when it came to government service, public service and things like that.

while you have more executive experience than he did going into this, you also would be a fairly inexperienced president. why should something completely different be another inexperienced politician. >> i would stack up my experience against anybody. i know it's not as traditional. i haven't been polmarinating in washington and part of that establishment but i would argue being a mayor of the city of any size means you have to deal with the kinds of issues that really hit americans. it's everything from infrastructure to economic development to racial sensitivities in policing. not to mention the fact i would also have more military experience under my belt than anybody to walk into office since george h.w. bush. i think it's about quality as well as quantity in experience. you can see clearly i'm about as different from this president as it gets. >> had you been successful in your last campaign you would be chairman of the democratic party. that means you wouldn't be running for president. >> that's true. in a selfish way it worked out

for the best. >> what was your motivation you wanted dnc chairman now running for president. >> any time you're running for office the discernment process should look for this. you look at what the office calls for in make moment and what you bring to the table and you use that for a match. i've used that process to decide to run for office several times and i've used it not to run for office. i see a country going through tectonic change and an office with a loss of decency. i'm as surprised as anybody. if you would ask me two years ago what i would be doing in 2019, i don't think i would have said this. but here you have this moment, probably the only moment in american history where it just might make sense for somebody my age, coming from experience in the industrial midwest, nonfederal, different background, bringing something that the actually help americans envision the world as it will be in 205 4, the year i'll reach

the current able of the current president and change the channel from this mesmerizing horror show going on in washington right now. >> i want to delve into indiana, your record in politics. you ran statewide in indiana against richard murdoch. he was the person who upset lugger, handed a senate seat to the democrats that has since gone republican. you lost. >> it's hard for a democrat to win statewide in the best of years. i was running in the worst of years. i'm still proud of our campaign. i was largely doing it to stand up for auto workers. richard murdoch intervened to prevent the auto rescue. he took it to the supreme court using his standing as treasurer. it would have devastated our state. i think somebody needed to stand up to him. i got my head handed to me. >> what did you learn from this. you had a bunch of supporters

that weren't ready to support you. what do you think your issue was, youth perhaps? >> i can say i led the ticket. although just about all of us were somewhere in the 40% range that year. just a horrible year to be a democrat in indiana or frankly in most places. what i really learned was campaigning. it was my first time on the ballot. it was uphill to say the least. not a lot of people were even following treasurer's race. it's hard when people haven't heard of you or the office you're running for. i learned fundraising, retail and how to put a message together. that wound up serving me well when in south bend the seat opened up, the first open seat in 24 years at exactly the moment when our city was looking for something different and needed a fresh start. >> i'm going to put up a couple of numbers here having to do with south bend. the poverty rate is still over 25%. the eviction rate 6.7%, which is fairly high. not the highest in indiana but on the high end of indiana. obviously you've been re-elected. so voters believe you put the

city in the right direction in that sense. these are still tough numbers. what haven't you been able to accomplish? >> there's so much work to do in a city like ours. people know it's hometown of notre dame might summits a wealthy town. we were devastated by the auto industry when they left in the 1960s. when i took office there were articles about whether south bend was a dying city. our poverty rate is high but down. we cut unemployment by half. we've been able to change the trajectory of the city to where we're growing in population and investment in a pace we haven't seen in a generation. it's not like all of our problems are involved. but i think one of the reasons i wound up getting re-elected with 80% of the vote is a sense that we had really changed the story for our city. i think that's something the country needs to hear. because you've got a president who is telling anybody from a community like mine, be it industrial or rural community, any community where people grow

up getting this message success means you have to get out. he's telling us greatness is in the past. we have to stop the clock and turn it back. i'm now making the case south bend is living proof that good poll six is not one based on the word "again." >> particularly racial disparities on income equality are huge in south bend. this is a crisis around the country. you face this firsthand. how much -- you haven't had much luck closing that gap. what have you tried that has work and what have you tried that didn't work. >> we have it mask in the right direction. we're talking about generational poverty, generational disposition -- dispossession that results in a combination of racist policies over the years and the affect that poverty and mass incarceration have. we're a community about 25% african-american, about 45% nonwhite. a lot of people in their lives and their neighborhoods, it's almost as though the economic recovery we're experiencing right now never happened.

here is what we think is working. we're investing in neighborhoods historically divested, parks and spaces supporting entrepreneurship we opened a small business resource center in an area that was not getting the kind of attention it needed because we know entrepreneurship will empower not just minority business owners but minority employees. we're taking steps to deal with the eviction rate, as you showed, a lot of times simply having access to legal representation makes all the difference for somebody facing eviction. and we made sure that our neighborhoods were improved because the issue of blight in vacant and abandoned properties was affecting especially minority neighborhoods. people didn't think it would be done but we concentrated resources. you said in 2015, sort of the rise of the black lives matter movement that there needs to be racial reconciliation. >> yes.

>> where does that responsibility lie and what have you done. >> it lies with all of us. if you're a mayor of a city the flash point is the relationship between the police department and neighborhoods. we worked with getting our police officers to almost have city councilmembers do foot patrols, walk the neighborhoods, to show up not just when there's an emergency but a fun fair, block party, trying to thicken those relationships. a lot of it is quality time. when we've had a moment or incident that tried to divide us racially in the city we made sure we invest in the face time it takes to reestablish trust. at the end of the day people need to see trust. that's how trust is built. that's one of the things i worry about nationally. you have folks in charge of the government who almost believe as a matter of principle in destroying it. when you don't have results, see people's lives getting better, it further motivates people to want to bring the house down.

>> last month some i.c.e. atmosphere arrested two of your constituents in south bend. what do you make of the idea of the bol issue i.c.e. movement that some people in the progressive end of the spectrum have called for? i know it's illegal to be a sanctuary city in indiana but gary has pushed the envelope. why haven't you? >> so we have worked very hard to be a welcoming city because the current immigration policies are just wrong. people who are really important parts of our community are being torn apart from their families. this is not making us safer. it is not making us stronger. now, when it comes to i.c.e., i don't care what the agency in charge of our agency and border enforcement is called, i care what it does. as long as you have an agency, even if you get rid of i.c.e. and called it something else, being ordered to tear families apart from one another or being ordered to make it harder to get on a path to citizenship, you're going to continue to have heartbreaking stories that are not helping anybody, whether we're talking about the

undocumented immigrants concerned or whether you're talking about the communities they are part of. >> i want to move a little bit to where you stand in the party. you heard joe biden. he said, boy, the definition of progressive now seems to be changing. he says now it's about whether you're a socialist or what's a real progressive. i know you have been somebody trying to push back on this whole labeling issue but put yourself on the spectrum here. what should democrats see in you. what do you want democrats to see in you idealogically. >> i think i'm a progressive. >> a capitalist? >> look, america is a capitalist society but it's got to be democratic capitalism. that part is really important and it's slipping away from us. in other words, when capitalism comes into tension with democracy, which is more important to you? i believe democracy is more important. when you have capitalism capturing democracy, when you have the kind of regulatory capture where powerful corporations are able to arrange the rules for their benefit, that's not real capitalism.

if you want to see what happens when you have capitalism without democracy, you can see it very clearly in russia. it turns into crony capitalism and that turns into oligarchy. i know the temptation from the area is align everybody as dots on a speck up trum but that's not how voters think. think mathematically in saint joe, indiana, who must have voted for obama and mike pence and me. there's a lot more to this than ideological analysis especially with ideology scrambled having a president that doesn't have ideology just a style. a hostile takeover of the republican party while the democratic party has only been able to explain its ideology by comparing to republicans for the better part of my lifetime. >> you said the president it's hard to look at his actions and believe he believes in god.

how do you square that with the evangelicals? >> it's something that frustrates me because the hypocrisy is unbelievable. here you have somebody that not only acts in a way that's not consistent with anything i hear in scripture, lifting up those among us, immigrants, focusing your efforts on the poor but personally how you're supposed to conduct yourself not look at me-ism but humbling yourself among others. foot washing is a central image in the new testament. we see the diametric opposite of that in this presidency. i think there was a cynical process where he decided to, for example, pretend to be pro-life and govern accordingly which was good enough to bring many evangelicals over to his side. but even on the version of christianity that you hear from the religious right, which is about sexual ethics, i candlelight believe that somebody writing hush money checks to adult film actresses

is somebody they should be lifting up as the kind of person who should be leading this nation. >> you grew up in the arguably the most famous catholic town in the country. i'm curious on abortion. i know what your stance is. you have a place pro-life democrats that don't get courted nationally anymore. how do you square that and what is your definition. when does life begin? is there any role for government in abortion. >> as someone pro-choice but someone with many friends and supporters that see it differently than i do. it begins with good faith. people arrive on their convictions often from deeply felt and sincerely held place. in my view, this is a question that is almost unknowable, a moral question settled by science. the best way to be settled in practice is by the person who actually faces the choice. when a woman is facing this

decision in her life, i think in terms of somebody beside her most useful, the answer to that would be a doctor, not a male government official imposing his interpretation of his religion. >> the final question i want to ask you about, the second amendment. you come from a second amendment state. some might argue whatever that means to folks. do you think the second amendment as it's written prevents gun control the way the supreme court says it does? >> i don't think it has to. we've already decided within the framework of the second amendment we're going to draw a line. shall not be infringed clearly doesn't mean you're entitled to a nuclear weapon. some between a sling shot and nuclear weapon we're going to draw a line about what makes sense. the same way my right to free speech doesn't include yelling fire in a theater, my right to swing my fist where somebody's nose begins. a society can live by and honor

the lifestyle of sporting, which is where so many family bonds are created, just a deep part of our tradition and the idea that people should be equipped to defend themselves if they need to. >> unfortunately i have to leave it there. pete buttigieg, thanks for being on. stay safe on the trail. i look forward to asking you other questions. we didn't get to foreign policies. >> i'll take that as an invite. >> it is an invite. when we come back joe biden, when we come back joe biden, cmy insurance rates are probably gonna double.

but dad, you've got allstate. with accident forgiveness they guarantee your rates won't go up just because of an accident. smart kid. indeed. are you in good hands? to severe plaque psoriasis get clearer. and stay clearer. most patients who saw 90% clearer skin at 28 weeks stayed clearer through 48 weeks. tremfya® may lower your ability to fight infections and may increase your risk of infections. before treatment, your doctor should check you for infections and tuberculosis. tell your doctor if you have an infection or have symptoms such as: fever, sweats, chills, muscle aches or cough. before starting tremfya® tell your doctor if you plan to or have recently received a vaccine. tremfya®. stay clearer. janssen can help you explore cost support options.

tremfya®. stay clearer. [zara larsson - "wow"] ♪ ♪ baby i'm not even in a gown ♪ and the only thing u have to say is wow ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ ♪ and you never felt this type of emotion ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop drop say oh my drop drop drop ♪ ♪ make u say oh my god my drop drop ♪ ♪ make you're jaw drop make u say oh my god ♪ welcome back. panelist here hugh hewitt, heather mcghee, veteran of presidential campaigns past and senior fellow at think tank and two from "politico" who write our second favorite newsletter playbook. senior washington correspondent

and senior writer jake sherman. more importantly jake and anna author of the very readable new book, the hill to die on, the hill, of course, being capitol hill. we're going to get to your book in a little bit. this simply is the longest interview i've had with mayor pete. heather, this is your side of the spectrum, how did he do? what do you think? >> i think he did great. he's a very impressive persona rhodes scholar, navy veteran, a year younger than me and already run a city. >> he's 10 years younger than me and i'm going what the hell have i done. >> i think in the moment when we're finding out who is pete. next we need to find out what's he going to do with american families. voters are interested in the biography, how will you change the life of my children? how will you help me afford college, that type of thing. we're at a breaking point in this country. people need to see demonstrable change in their shot at the

american dream. that's why they are asking candidates for platforms. that's something that's not yet part of his story. it's not on his website. what are the ideas. >> the path the presidency gos through in the rust belt. it has, it will this time, the rust belt. >> best profile deindustrialization of the midwest in his bones. i think that's true. this was another hurdle crossed for mayor pete. i've been following him closely. he worries me from a republican standpoint. i would like to have 20 democrats on the stage with 5% each. right now bernie sanders is going to be the front-runner by money. you've got the vice president and you've got this rocket ship coming up. the ability to give a good interview and hold the attention of the american people. i always said donald trump is the very best interview in america because he holds the attention of the audience and remains the very best interview in america but i think mayor pete might give him a run. >> the other end of the age spectrum is joe biden. it is interesting to me and dan bowles tackled that this

morning, gets us to biden. he literally is a 21st century democrat and we're having this debate whether biden is 21st century enough. >> clearly you saw pete buttigieg lean into the fact of his age and drawing a stark contrast subtly. >> what did he say 2054 i'll be the same age as the president. >> exactly. i think what you see on the biden front and clearly for the last week plus feels like he needs to put some more oil in the machine there in terms of what the response is, how slow it was. is he made for the campaign of 2020? right now i think there's some big questions there. >> i think he hasn't gotten in, which is stunning to me. if he were in the race, joe biden and out giving such speeches every day he would be able to talk about something besides these allegations or else he could address it and move on. he's not in the race for reasons that are not clear to me and it gives a vacuum for someone like mayor pete to get in, shape the dialogue, shape the debate and say we need somebody of this

generation. >> he's still leading the latest polls average 7 points. >> he being joe biden. >> joe biden. the reason is this sense of electability. democratic primary voters said by 20 points i'd rather have someone who will win than someone who wants the country that i want, who has the same ideology as me. that's huge. that's about the nightmare of not wanting to wake up to an electoral college victory of donald trump again. we need to change electable. we have voted for change, disrupting the status quo every time we've had the chance since the financial crash. i don't think joe biden represents the kind of change particularly younger voters, the biggest bloc in 2020 need to see. >> i want to go back to one thing mayor pete told you. he would enter with more military experience than george h.w. bush, unless seth gets in as a 9/11 veteran. that's impressive. every american ought to respect that even if they aren't going to vote for him. that sets him apart from

everybody else on the democratic platform even bernie ahead on money and enthusiasm. it's worth noting and deserves respect. >> i'm curious, matthew from washington free beacon wrote something interesting comparing him to the rest of the field. i find him interesting what he reveals about the democratic field upstaged k3458z, amy klobuchar, cory booker and others dreaming of this minute. enjoying his 15 minutes because even the most talented of these elected officials have yet to stand out. fair shot, jake? >> absolutely. i think voters don't want washington. we saw that with donald trump. >> the worst thing you can have as senator. >> that's probably right. this guy has run a city. has he a story to tell that doesn't include going to the floor of the senate for clochure votes. >> i think he would say the worth cloture. >> i think that's probably right. >> americans love the underdog. the media loves an underdog. he comes into the race. i don't think anybody took him

seriously, thinking he was going to be a top contender at all. he's kind of this rocket ship, as you said. just wondering, can he keep that momentum. that's the question i have. >> i want to switch a little bit, frank got to this, mayor pete criticized is he gay enough, kamala harris, is she black enough. this argument that's going on in the party, perhaps -- here is barack obama. let's play president obama on this yesterday, believe it or not, and see what he says about this. >> one of the things i do worry about sometimes among progressives in the united states, maybe it's true here as well is a certain kind of rigidity where we see, i'm sorry, this is how it's going to be. then we start sometimes creating what's called a circular firing squad. >> heather, i thought stacey abrams said the other day,

there's the line ayatollah evth is searching for forgiveness with accountability. that seemsd to to be the strug forgiveness with accountability. >> we're right now evolving what the democratic party is. people who do focus groups say all the time republicans very defined. people know what they are voting for with republicans. democrats you basically have to have everyone else. what you're seeing with this huge primary, debates about identity, a recognition that identity shapes your experience in this country. for most people how you look, your identity who you love shapes how people treat you and the circumstances you have. so it does matter. >> is president obama right, though? could this get too rinl i hgid left? >> absolutely. it's extremely rigid on the right. people not being able to talk about anything other than pro nuclear weapons on the streets. the second amendment fundamentalism on the right wing is very strong. at the same time i do think

these are important debates. i think people want to know what they are going to do for the country. >> all right. thank you. we're going to pause it here. when we come back normer presidential nominee, former presidential nominee, former massachusetts governor plants capture co2. what if other kinds of plants captured it too? if these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. carbon capture is important technology - and experts agree. that's why we're working on ways to improve it. so plants... can be a little more... like plants. ♪ rheumatoid arthritis or psoriatic arthritis. when considering another treatment, ask about xeljanz xr a once-daily pill for adults with moderate to severe rheumatoid arthritis or active psoriatic arthritis for whom methotrexate did not work well enough.

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kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. welcome back. most republican office holders have been reluctant, even a bit scared, to criticizes president trump, not mitt romney. just two days before he took the oath as a new senator from utah, mitt romney wrote this, "presidential leadership and qualities of character is indispensable. it is in this province where the incumbent shortfall has been stunning. he says he's tougher on illegal immigration than the president. mitt romney joins me now from

salt lake city in his first "meet the press" appearance as senator romney. in fact, we were just debating do you prefer governor or senator, still. >> the term governor is always better but i guess i've got to go by my current title senator. mitt is just fine. >> we neff met a senator that didn't miss being governor. let me start with what the president said about immigration and asylum seekers. here it is, sir. >> this is our new statement. the system is full. can't take you anymore. whether it's asylum, whether it's anything you want, illegal immigration, can't take you anymore. can't take you. our country is full. >> it's a little jarring to hear an american president say our country is full given the history of the united states of america. how did you take that comment?

>> well, we've seen a dramatic shift in the nature of immigration and illegal immigration just over the last few weeks. a number of years ago and up until just a few weeks ago, the great majority of people coming into our country were coming looking for work. single men and oftentimes returned at the border, sent back home to mexico. in the last few weeks there's been a dramatic change. that is we're seeing unaccompanied young people as well as families with lots of kids pouring into the border and they say the magic word, i'm seeking asylum. by virtue of our laws we bring them into the country. we don't begin to have enough space in the facilities to maintain the kind of care these people deserve, so they are being turned out into our country, 125,000 of them so far this year. it is overwhelming our system. we've got to be able it deal with this in a way. it's going to take some legislation to get it fixed. >> that's what i'm curious about. how would you handle this. the president threatened to impose on mexico, tariff on car

if they don't help with the border, shipped to mexico, threatened foreign aid to three central american countries where these people are fleeing. it's called a carrot and stick approach for a reason. he's only providing sticks. he doesn't seem to have a carrot here anywhere. >> well, i think whether or not has to happen is an effort for republicans and democrats to come together generally with presidential leadership. that's what's going to be essential to get us all together. >> i heard your hesitation there. does he have the credibility to do this? >> well, he does. he has the capacity to bring together the top democrats, the top republicans and sit down and say, okay, what can we do legislatively to make sure we're not creating extraordinary asylum magnet bringing people into the country. in my opinion, the democrats are making a huge error by making border security an issue and

saying it's a partisan issue. look, this is an american issue. we can't have millions upon millions of people flooding into our country without a border that's secure, without i.c.e. making sure people here illegally are sent back. this is a winning issue i think for republicans but more importantly it's a winning issue for americans to say we have to have the sovereignty of our nation. i think the president has tapped into something which people feel very deeply. >> one of the things you said is you'd be tougher on illegal immigration than president trump, your positions. give me an example where you feel as if you're tougher on this than he is. >> well, i was refer to a time some years ago when i was running for president and noted i was not in favor of the dream act. the president supported earlier in 2017 giving the daca individuals legal residency. i was referring to that point. >> are you still against the dream act? >> well, it's been put in place by president obama and i believe we have a responsibility to fulfill what is a presidential

pledge and commitment. so that's in the past. i would provide legal status for those dreamers in the country. that's something that the president has put on the table. i think we should get that job done and hope we will get that job done. overall we need to complete the border fence. we need to have a system that keeps people from getting jobs here if they are here illegally. that's an e-verify system and then we've got to deal with the asylum issue that's overwhelming our system. >> let me move to health care. to me it's a more trickier situation given you won re-election, i believe -- excuse me, you won election in utah on the same ballot that a majority of your constituents wanted to see medicaid expanded. so what would you do now with health care? would you scrap the system we have and build from scratch, or do you take the obamacare infrastructure, which many will note was modelled in some ways off of what you did in massachusetts, and try to reform from there? >> well, let's begin by putting

it in context, which is obamacare applies to about 20, maybe 25% of the population. for 75 to 80% of the population, we get our insurance through our employer or through medicare or through traditional medicaid. so obamacare is just 20, 25% of the population. right now with obamacare, that's a federal program. i think what you're going to see from republicans is a federal-state partnership where the federal government sets the parameters and the states are given more flexibility to create ways to care for their own low income individuals. so i think federal-state partnership is a much wiser way to go. a number of senators are working on those kind of ideas. i know the white house is as well. i think you're going to see proposals coming from our side that say, look, we can make the current system of private insurance, which 75, 80% of americans have, we can keep that in place, get costs down, more

flexibility and obamacare needs to be repealed. by the way, democrats agree with us. they agree with us on getting rid of obamacare. they are calling for medicare for all. medicare for all wipes out obamacare. >> the irony is not lost. i'm waiting for republicans to start defending obamacare as things move on, honestly. i want to ask you about the medicaid decision by constituents. the legislature wants to tighten what your constituents wanted. is that the right call? >> the legislature in utah said, look, we want to make sure if we're going to expand our medicaid population, we're going to only do so as long as the federal government is picking up 90% of the bill. if the federal government decides to back off the 90% number, then we the state legislature don't want to pick up the bill. i think it's a reasonable position the legislature has taken. >> you are very aggressive in getting candidate donald trump to try to release his tax returns. he now wants to fight this effort by congress all the way

to the supreme court. while i can maybe understand he wants to do it on privacy grounds, he still doesn't want to show the country his tax returns. how problematic is that? >> well, i'd like the president to follow through and show his tax returns. he said he would, i think it was on the "today" show, he said he would release tax returns. i have to also tell you i think the democrats are playing along his handbook, which is going after his tax returns through a legislative action is moronic. that's not going to happen. the courts are not going to say you can compel a person running for office to release their tax returns. so he's going to win this victory. he wins them time after time. the green new deal, all these candidates out there talking about getting rid of obamacare and traditional health care and putting in place medicare, these things are just nonstarters. i think the democratic party is finding itself in a real difficult position with those kind of positions. >> very quickly, it is coming up

to an election year. jeb bush who ran for president in 2016, he said recently he thinks it would be healthy for the republican party some somebody challenged donald trump to have a real debate about what is conservative anymore. he's for higher deficits, you're for lower deficits. he's for tariffs, you're not a tariff guy. one could argue trump and romney present the contrast of the two different views of differencism. >> -- of conservatism. >> there are differences. i was in the president's office and said i disagreed with steel and aluminum tariffs. i said i'm overwhelmingly in favor of what you're doing on china. can you get as hard as you want to get pushing back on china. i think you can also say the president has followed republican playbook when it comes to domestic economy, lowering taxes, lowering regulation. the kpli is doing well. hard not to recognize that's a

strong record. time will tell. parties do just fine when there's a primary. >> mitt romney, now senator from utah. in the halls of congress we'll call you governor, i promise. thanks for coming on for an interview. >> thank you. >> i want to note the passing of the south carolina democrat's passing. believe it or not for 36 of his 38 years in the senate he was actually the state's junior senator to strom thurmond. hollings began his political career as a segregationist and became a moderate even supported jesse jackson for president in 1988. he was known for his quick wit and sharp tongue. >> >> we've been playing games both sides, read our lips. the country is doing well. we don't have any problems. just we politicians have a problem.

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. back now with end game and just a fantastic book by our friends jake and anna, the high to die on. you have a lot of fun anecdotes. i don't have to do expletive deleted. >> pg 13. >> when you cover president trump you have to have a rating. the president periodically engaged in all out arguments leaving them bitter and per terd. in one tweet, told quit tweets about crowd size. who the [ expletive ] are you? he did say he had the biggest inauguration ever.

it struck me this anecdote when i was talking to senator romney about how does he have credibility to convene on the hill, what is the president's credibility on capitol hill? >> i think it's mixed. what we decided to do was turn the camera around. we thought there was enough coverage of trump as an individual person, we wanted to see how congress as a system reacted to the president. we have a lot of anecdotes like this about the president getting into huge arguments with members of congress and his style behind the scenes. we were given extraordinary access by leading members of congress to capture these incredible moments of a guy who had never been in government in his life, how he would interact with members of congress, many of whom had been in government their entire life. >> i'm going to play a phone conversation you guys got between trump and pelosi after the first infamous chuck and nancy moment, daca for the wall, everybody is in love with trump, chuck, and nancy. apparently trump calls pelosi and, hey, nance trump said to pelosi on a private phone call.

great to be with you. you and check getting rave reviews. me, i'm okay. your two friends referring to paul ryan and mitch mcconnell, not so good. the country need add dose of this. this is whether or not drives republicans on capitol hill bonkers. >> absolutely. i think what the book really illustrates is how often the government wants to do deals with nancy pelosi and chuck schumer, two people he's very familiar with for the past 20 years. i think this is just another example of republicans thinking he's got to leave us high and dry on any occasion when he thinks there could be a deal done. he's not interested in the substance. >> heather, i have to think when you hear that on the one hand, donald trump the individual i think does want to cut deals with whoever. but he doesn't idealogically look like a guy ready to cut deals. >> no, because he's always looking back at fox news. >> roped back in or whatever that is. >> most importantly he knows this economy, even though it's doing great for headlines is still not working for are most americans. he uses the scapegoats of immigrants, poor people, black families, this is what he does

time and time again. it is a more broad republican playbook than president trump but he's mastered it, divide and conquer and districts from what's happening in american families. >> hugh, when you read their book, you sit there and think it is unbelievable how little he's gotten through congress. when you read the book you understand why. >> he has gotten through 37 court appointees and judges. >> i'm talking about stuff. >> supreme court justices. >> partisan warfare. he's not gotten a big deal, big legislation. everything he's done is on a partisan basis. he can't figure out how to do things. >> the best quote, the hill to die on, quoting president trump saying there are ratings for everything. president trump, and you guys capture this, is very aware that every day is a struggle for attention and ratings approval. that's captured. so he doesn't need to get anything through the hill other than those things that generate ratings for him on the primary side in the general election. >> by the way, going back to immigration.

it seems to me immigration for him is a 2020 crunch. he doesn't want a solution yet. he needs the issue. is that the way capitol hill is responding? >> i don't think anybody believes there's going to be an immigration deal before the 2020 election. i don't think democrats -- it's helpful to democrats in terms of turning out the base, getting people riled up, about actually kind of framing the debate as a contrast to the president. >> back on planet earth, president trump has rejected two major immigration deals he could have had with democrats and that his party supported. so the president has been all over the map on this issue. we catalog in the hill to die on has been close to chuck schumer and paul ryan. he's been all over the place on this issue. >> heather, what do democrats need to say on the border? do you think they can advocate open borders? >> open borders is a framing from the right wing, fox news, that has never been the democratic position. >> what do you say? >> democratic position has been for almost 20 years now, a path

to citizenship, a humane and legal way for people desperate to become american citizens to do so. things like the dream act. i was surprised to hear mitt romney sort of capitulate on the agreement act. this is enormously popular even with most republican voters. this country has always been a country that has said you are an american if you come here, work hard. we used to have racial quotas on immigration, people come in, get off a boat and walk into the country. this new paradigm we have a very criminalized immigration system is contrary to what i think most americans want. >> hugh, should the president's campaign team at all look at the results in arizona, new mexico and texas in 2018 and get a little nervous about the border. >> should look at doug ducey and see what he's done on the border, which is work to fix every problem. there is a role problem at the border. 125,000 people i believe last month. it's a genuine crisis. i'm the last optimist.

>> create office -- >> i believe this is out of the el salvador and venezuela and the sooner maduro is gone, they have got to get a solution because it's a genuine crisis. >> thank you, guys. before we go, do you wonder what we talk about on the panel after "meet the press" is over. the new and improved podcast, the toddcast because dad humor works here. i'll let you in on what we're thinking about 2020 and more. stuff better left unsaid on television. you subscribe to chuck toddcast wherever you get your podcast. that's all for today. thank you very much for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

she's out. the secretary of homeland security resigns abruptly from a department in apparent disarray following the president's visit to the border. >> congress is putting out a full court press on the president for the full release of his taxes. the mueller report and more. >> a day before israelis heado the polls, prime minister netanyahu proposes annexing parts of the west bank claiming rights to territory that palestinians saw as their future homeland. >> caught on camera live, they were mauled before a huge crowd of spectators. the trainer is taking blame for the attack. >> the biggest stars in country music were