. this sunday, altered states. . >> location, alabama was hit. >> president trump insisted that he was right to say hurricane dorian was headed for alabama. >> they actually gave that a 95% chance probability. >> leads to mr. trump resenting a doctored bet. >> are you able to show wit a sharpee. >> i don't know. i don't know. >> prompts more questions what we can placebo the president of the united states tells the public. i will talk to a republican senate leadership, roy blount of

missouri. >> plus, man theft e chester united. democratic candidates flood new hampshire. >> in this presidential race, we don't just want to win. we want to win big. >> my guest, presidential candidate amy klobuchar. also, president trump says he called off secret talks between the taliban and the afghan ghast and i'll talk about that. and we know who president trump said would pay for his border wall. >> mexico will pay for the wall! believe me. >> but now the president is shifting billions from the military to help build part of that wall. will he pay a political price? joining me for insight and analysis are -- amy walter, national editor of the political report. peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the new york times, chem berly atkins, senior news correspondent for wbor and

columnist joan is that gojonah . >> announcer: this is meet the press with chuck todd. >> food sunday morning. if a president says one thing that's not true, it can become a very big deal. think of president obama's claim if you like your healthcare man you can keep it. whether that was a lie or a mistake, it's a scar on mr. obama's presidency. what if you make more than 12,000 false or misleading claims that they dialogued in mr. scale's presidency. >> that seems to have inoculated him from being sustained by one one particular falsehood. there are two moments that feel less like a stain and feel leak a tattoo. the first when his press said the inaugural crowd was bigger. and when he said hurricane dorian was taking aim at

alabama. in response, mr. trump chose to present alternative maps, including a sharpee enhanced one that comically stretched to alabama and seemed to give new term to the extended forecast s. this all absurd and trivial? of course. and no doubt mr. trump's supporters will blame us and the comblaed as the president has for focusing on it. it's the president who spent the weaken sifting he was right all along and used government agencies to defend his position, all this when congress returned anew whether the president can be trusting his concern. >> we had many line, each line being a modem. they were going all ways through in all cases alabama was hit. >> it's a fall fight ahead. how can congress negotiate with a president who is unreliable and often doesn't tell the truth. >> the map you presented almost looked like it had a sharpee. >> i don't know. i don't know. i don't know.

>> after falsely warning that alabama remained threatened by hurricane dorian. president trump spent the week digging in, displaying that map considered with a sharpee posting 11 tweets over certain days inkift sifting he was right, directing his homeland and counter security adviser to release a 25-word statement. since the first day when he sent out miss press secretary to misrepresent his inaugural crowd size. >> this was the largest audience to witness an inauguration period. >> reporter: to cast votes against him if 2016 and creating commission to quote investigate. >> 3 to 5 million. >> we will find out. it may be that much. >> reporter: to floating a tax cut on the eve of the 2016 election which never materialized. >> we're giving a middle tax reduction of 10%. we're dock it now. >> reporter: the president used the resources of government to

support his misleading version of evince. >> background checks. >> investing in our great military. >> not shutting the government down to make your point. >> can either party trust the president to keep his word. on immigration, the president once promised. >> mexico will pay for the wall believe me. i will have mexico pay for that wall. nowhe president is shifting $3.6 billion in military construction funds from projects spread across 23 states. 3 u.s. territories and 19 countries to pay for 175 miles of fencing. >> i think his executive order composed his discretion. >> on guns, after calling for background checks. >> we have tremendous support for really commence, sensible important background checks. >> the president took that support back. >> you have to be very careful about that they call at this time slippery slope.

>> even if mr. trump were to reverse course, headed into an election year, democrats may not have the stomach to compromise with this president. >> i work with mr. mcconnell where we can agree. on this we cannot agree. we have to flat out beat him. >> joining me now about where we are in this senate agenda, senator blount. welcome back to meet the press. >> congratulation on five years on this job. >> thanks very much. >> five years filled with news. >> that's for sure. i have social media hits to prove it. let me begin with the news that broke overnight from the president here, basically all talks are off, half the troops sitting there appears to be something that isn't going to happen in the near term. we don't know how long it's going to be i know these things. you have been there in the last 15 months a couple times. you said something interesting to me, you can't figure out how it can get better, how we can

leave and it will get worse. >> i was there in april and east ter year before. it doesn't get better. i'm sure it will get worse after we leave. i think backing away, just dealing with the taliban is the right thing to do. leaving troops there for right now is the right thing to do. >> how do you tell an exhausted public, though? there is always a reason to stay. you said it could get worse. >> i said it would get worse. i think you got to remember how this base, how this became the base for the 9/11 tragedy. there is no reason to believe that wouldn't happen again, the taliban even in the middle of a negotiation has to brag about killing an american soldier. if we leave there, that becomes the same haven it was. i think that's why -- >> was there -- to ever negotiate with the taliban in the first place? >> i have been concerned we would negotiate with the taliban, not including the afghan government in that.

even the idea that you could negotiate with the taliban, the problems with that had been very evident this week as the taliban at this critical moment when they, i guess they few they were coming to camp david. i didn't know they were coming to camp david. at this critical moment they decided to brag about a car bomb and killing an american soldier. it shows who they r. this will get traumatically worse when they decide to leave. >> were you comfortable the taliban will be stepping -- >> at the time i didn't know they were stepping i didn't have to deal with that. >> fair enough. let me talk about congress' agenda. you voted against the president's national emergency declaration. you were one of the few who did. how many more republicans would have voted against the president's national emergency declaration had they known the presque projects that would be targeted? >> well, i don't know, i thought 12 of us in the senate thought

this was the wrong way to do what the president is doing. i think what the president is doing is the right thing to do. but i think if you take away that congressional ability to decide how money is spent, you take away the biggest tool congress has in the unique balance of power our constitution creates. >> senator collins thinks this way she is dock it is still unconstitutional. >> we'll see. the courts will decide that now. not the congress. we will every six months apparently double down on our view of whether this is a good thing to do or not. senator capa toe and i were at the border tuesday and wednesday of this week. the boarder is making a difference. what the president was able to negotiate with mexico, where people aren't released into the united states but are released back into mexico to wait for their trial date. remember particularly out of those central american countries no more than 15 out 100 people actually qualify for the

asyl asylum, they decide, if i go to court, there is snow way i get into the united states. many of them decide put us on a plane and take us back home. >> i want to go back to the military projects, this idea that this money is going to get replenished. that's not a done deal. >> not a done deal. but even if the money is replenished, the projects get done on a slower schedule than they would have otherwise. >> sow don't like this, do you? >> i don't think voting based on whether your project is included is sa reason to vote. again i think the president is trying to do the right thing here. it's producing the right results. i'm pro legal immigration. i'm pro skills based immigration if we go in that direction. i'm pro building barriers where barriers do work. i'm pro replaceing old dilapidated fences with new barriers that work. but i'm really pleased with what the government of mexico has been willing to do to help us solve the problem, both at the

guatemalan border and letting people go back there and wait for their trial date. people the whole plan was to get into the united states and never show up for the trial date knowing you weren't going to qualify for what you were asking for. >> let me ask you about the gun issue. manchin, toomey, some form of background checks, will that get a vote on the floor? >> what the leader said the week, i think it's the second time he said this we're not going to vote on bills that the president is not willing to sign. the president needs to step up here and set some guidelines for what he would do. i'm afraid what will happen, we take the silly if we won't get everything won't do anything and fail to do the things we could do with more early mental health help, treating mental health like all other health. something i worked hard on. there is a moment here where we can expand what we are already doing on that front. >> let me play you something

from senator mike braun, republican from indiana. >> and i look at it this way, if we're not willing to do the common sense stuff, probably legislation will occur that we'll regret that i think will infringe on 2nd amendment rights down the road. >> there are a couple other people thinking this mr. pro second amendment, this thinking going, look, this incremental regulation befo for it now or dn the road what gets passed will be something you wish had been for this. >> conduct, i think i heard senator schumer say two weeks ago, if we're not going to do everything, we're not doing everything. >> call his gluf. >> if the president let us know what he'd sign what got on his desk, we'd be much more likely to do that. >> before i go, should the american public take his word as he speaks? >> well, the president speaks

differently. >> you said that before. >> as a candidate owe glow he's the president of the united states, politicizing the weather. i mane, is there anything left in. >> i actually not, i have spent most of th month at home in missouri. i don't think this whole sharpee thing is way being overplayed. i don't think it will matter election day. i don't think it matters to most people. >> but are you worried that the credibility of the word of the president of the united states has been eroded? >> no. >> okay. senator roy blunt, republican from missouri, member of leadership, it's good to see you. democratic candidates are if new hampshire for the democratic state convention this weekend amid growing signs the field is narrowing to three. joe biden, elizabeth warren and bernie sanders, one of the lower tier candidates senator klobuchar made her case against president trump and some of her democratic opponents. >> i do believe i may be more moderate in tone for some of the

people running for office. i'm betting people don't want the loudest voice anymore, they've had that in the white house. they want someone that will be honest and them memories them, no, we are not going to erase rich kids college debt. we will not do that even though some put that forward as their proposal. >> joining me now is senator amy klobuchar, a democrat from minnesota. good to see you. >> coming on sunday, a rare brief respite in washington. >> here we are. >> let me ask a follow up to what you said just there. what does that mean? do you feel as if there have been way too many promises made and there is going to be a neg testify fallout for this eventually for the democrats? >> i don't think there will be a neg testify fallout, eventually. i think we will unify behind a candidate. i think that should be me and made clear the differences we have with a president who has told over 10,000 lies and most

importantly hasn't had the back of the people. some of the people that voted for him. drug prices are going up. college costs still out of hand, all kind of problems, for me, what i meant by that is we need to have a candidate that will lead that will look people in the eye and tell t the truth and that isn't going to make a bunch of promises that they can't keep. i truly think they want something different than donald trump. >> you have today yourself as a get it done. >> based on my record. >> you said have you bills president trump will sign. it's been a rough summer with credible with this president. their many democrats out there that say you know what, don't work with him anymore. you are coming back to congress. you guys got a lot on your plate. are you still willing to work with him? >> right now right in front of us are two major issues, one is protecting our election. i have led that with senator langford. we want to get that passed so

places that don't have back-up paper ballots, if the administration is willing to step up on that bill, secondly on gun safety, three bills signature on mitch mcconnell's desk. i don't think you need to negotiate those bills. they closed my bill closing the boyfriends loophole to protect victims of gun violence. so i would think the easiest path forward here is mcconnell justtakes that background checks, two of the bills, puts them up. we get them done. i think it's obscene we have ordinary people showing such extraordinary courage, protecting their baby, running to the scenes of the gun shooting, there is not the courage in the white house to get this done. >> i think you might have heard senator blunt say, senator schumer said if everything is not considered, nothing will be considered. where are you on that? >> i work with senator blunt. we work together all the time. i am tired of this game of whack

a mole. it's really playing with people's lives in whatever the next mass shooting will be. i think what you do as a leader is call those bills up. let's get them done. we got the majority of trump voters in a poll. the majority of hunters that want to see background checks. give me a break. this is the nra. this is raw politics. we need to call them out on it. >> a big debate this week. there has been a lot of ways people have written about candidates not named by warren and sanders. the "new york times" saying it's a big moment for candidates not naming those three. how do you view it? . >> i view it there is a major debate coming up. there are ten people on that stage. i am one of two candidates from the mid-west. to me, having campaigned through this summer, seeing people focused on little league games and other things. this is a moment where americans are going to tune in and make

some decisions. i've got the case that we don't want to just win in this election. we want to win big. we don't want to find out we win at 4:00 in thening or the next day. we want to win big and win the u.s. senate. the way you do that is with a candidate that has a proven record of bringing in independents and moderate republicans that deserted our party in 2016 for donald trump. you make the case to them. you add to an ignited democratic base that wants to win big and you win big and you win back the u.s. senate. >> that is the recipe to getting all of these things done on climate change and immigration reform. >> why do voters who perhaps share your view of this electability issue view joe biden as that electable candidate? >> they know him. vice president bind has been in leadership for many, many years. they don't know me as well. that's why this fall is my opportunity. >> do you think you would be stronger than him? >> i think i would be a very strong candidate. >> stronger than him? >> ohing okay. i believe i am stronger than all

the other candidates or i wouldn't be running. >> fair enough. >> but i believe that in when you look at the mid-west and wisconsin and michigan, iowa, and pennsylvania, these states that we want to win that we have to win, you've got to go with someone that has that track record and can relate to these voters and also can get a high voter turnout. >> it's sort of a weird dichotomy, the polls are saying one thing in joe biden. crowds are saying a lot of thing, there is a lot of activism, elizabeth warren and bernie sanders do crowd building. why do you think the grass roots is so much more excited about that as it seems than they are about just winning? >> i think it is too early to base campaigns on one event or one tweet or anything like this or these viral moments. to me, these are what they are. they are moments. what you want is someone that could win in the long haul, i have built operations in new hampshire and in iowa. i've gotten endorsements coming

in every week the former head of the corn growers in iowa, the former attorney general in new hampshire. this is how you build success. you look at the successful needs, jimmy carter, bill clinton. they were not chosen to win at this moment in time. >> here's another thing, all of that happens and hasn't happened here, we don't have a new generation in the top tier, why is that? >> again, it is early, people want to win so badly so they look at the names that they know, the people around a while. it is going to take this fall and these next five, six months. that's a long time in politics for them to get to know the rest of us. >> afghanistan, it's obviously talks are now off. you have heard this, this is a bipartisan exhaustion when it comes to afghanistan. you heard, senator blunt is not the only person that says if you say, it feels like nothing will get better. if you leave, it will get worse. where are you on afghanistan?

>> i think we need to bring our kids home, there are kids that weren't born when we went into afghanistan. >> that being said, as i was listening to the leadup in your show about the sharpee gate and what he did with greenland and we all keep focusing on that with good reason, it's so crazy. meanwhile, he is hurting our credible around the world. yes you negotiate with the afghan government and the taliban. but you don't treat this likesome kind of game show when you are dealing with terrorists. he clearly wanted the showman's moment of having them come to camp david. he didn't have the complete cease-fire. he didn't have a deal done. he does a tweet, oh, blaming them, oh, it's over. give me a break. this is exactly what he did to kim jong-un, bringing a hot dish next door across the dmz. you deal with your allies, the world is watching. we need to bring credibility back into our foreign policy. >> amy klobuchar, a democrat from california. thank you for coming on.

>> thank you. >> thank you for making a pit stop here. >> it was great. >> when we come back altered kevin, meet your father. kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin kevin trusted advice for life. kevin, how's your mom? life well planned. see what a raymond james financial advisor can do for you. when i was diagnosed with ms, the firstwas my family.ht about i came home and cried. but, as i've seen my disease progress, the medicine has progressed right alongside it. trying to make medications more affordable is important, but if washington isn't careful we might leave innovation behind. let's fix the system the right way.

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. welcome back. the panel is here. los angeles dimes columniest jonah goldberg and from wbor if washington. amy walter and peter baker, chief white house correspondent for the "new york times". i'm going to start with your colleague in the "new york times," peter. try to understand donald trump as a person with psychology and strategy and motivation and you will inevitably spiral into confusion and the key to to realize he is not a person, he's a tv character. everybody over analyzed sharpee-gate. it was as good as a reminder.

>> i know, exactly. we do in some ways attach so much importance to small events. we're trying to understand this unlikeliest of presidents. this is so different than any other president that would get into a flaufl about this. we might talk about it. if he didn't talk about it every day for a week, the storm would dissipate n. trump world, that is not allowed to happen. the storm will continue because he will continue until he feels he has proven himself right. >> yeah. >> it's exhaustion presidency. i think that's the challenge for this president going into 2020, which is it has served him well in the course of his career to exhaust his opponents in the world of new york real estate and folks in that world, to exhaust his enemies, which he does on the political stage. but he's also exhausting voters and can he win 2020 if voters

are saying not do we want another four years? are you better off than you were four years? usually what an incumbent president is measured on, right? >> i don't know. >> this is do you want four more years of this? the exhaustion, the tweets, the chaos, the constant controversy? >> i take, i don't know, there is no strategy behind this, but there was a point where he pivoted and decided, all right, let me make the press the issue here. because whenever i am flailing, i can at least unite my base by attacking the press. >> yeah, there are a couple things going on here, first of all, he's the first president in american history we know of who conscientiously or consciously wants to support his base. you try folks pand your coalition. instead, it's sort of like the salesman who says, sure i lose money on every sale, i'm going to make it up in volume, right. he turns off more people than he

attracts. i think one of the things he is suffering, from, though, there is a lot of talk in walk how she mentally losing it, i don't think that's true. i think it's the same trump that we've seen. the loss of the mueller probe as a foil that galvanizes his own side it leaves him flailing about turning jerome powell into a james bond film, whatever. leaves him what new fights to have. the squad served some parts of it. not really. that's what people in washington think he's a fry short of a happy people, when in reality this is the same trump he needs consistent energy. >> he needs consistent foil. >> he is the same trump since the campaign trail the difference here is this idea he is using every level of the federal government to fight his fight. however petty. who would have thought that we'd be sitting here today talking about political sizing the national oceanic and atmospheric

administration. you know it's really unbelievable. but they would go along with it. >> that the top officials would go along with you know coddling the president when in the face of actual science. this is silly in one way, in a lot of ways, it's not. the reason the national weather service in alabama issued those statements out of birmingham, because people were afraid, hurricane acting business is like agriculture. it's a big deal. >> this gets to is he testing the issues everything is all good and well until people say this is impacting me. the military construction project. these lawmakers know what projects, all of a sudden there would have been 12 republicans, than 50. look at the swing states impacted by the moving of funds for the wall. florida a big one, mecca beach, mind you, mexico is not paying for the wall, arizona, texaco, wisconsin, this is what could

get turned into a political impact. >> you can see already in arizona, there is a senate race going on there. and you know that that number is going to be brought up in a lot of campaign ads against the incumbent republican senator martha mcsally. i thought mexico was paying for this wall. not the good people of arizona having to do this. >> colorado or florida, you name it. >> that's right. there is actual consequence to your voting record. that's more than just you are standing with trump because you feel like you need to protect your base. it's like when you are doing this, there is consequence. >> that as a candidate is running against an incumbent. that's what you want to show. >> i think you are right. we see when we get to that turning point, if we get no that turning point. up until now a lot of trump voters, supporters, have been perfectly willing to give him credit. even when his policies might not be hurting. they have been patient with him so far. because they think she fighting

for them. yeah you haven't delivered on this or that. we know the swamp is against you, the elites are against you. are you out there fighting for us. the question is when did that turn? they say, wait a second, my farm products aren't selling anymore or i'm upset about these washington machine prices that the tariffs are increasing. >> i don't think they need to turn. jonah is right, appealing to the same people they appeal to. the middle and that suits him more. >> i want to quickly turn to guns, jonah, dan patrick, the governor of texas said the following. look, i'm a solid nra guy, but not expanding the background check to eliminate the stranger-to-stranger sale makes no sense to me and most folks. we saw this as a stunning shift in his rhetoric. mike braun made the implication, sort of the, hey, we ought to be for some of this stuff now, because doan down the road, we may wish we had been for some of the smaller stuff. >> yeah. >> that's got to be an effective argument on the right?

>> i kind of doubt it. a part of the problem is a lot of these things, including the expanded background check os tr gun show loophole or boyfriends loophole wouldn't address the things that led to these mass shootings we've seen. who ill that sounds like a good thing to the swing voters, trump should be caring about. to the base they know this argument is cold and they will feel like it is selling out. >> i think that is a big part of the problem. the biggest problem is a president who you can't believe from one moment to the next where he stands on policy and changes his mind like the wind blows and if mitch mcconnell is holding that as a stoornd do anything that will never be met. >> she was shown in poll figure you supported it, it wouldn't have helped him and we know probably that's how he is going to view all of these issues. before we go to break there morning, we are announcing tickets for the meet the press film festival are on sale now. it's our third annual film

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. welcome back. president trump announced he has abruptly turned off secret talks between the government of afghanistan and the taliban and the united states. he said he did so after the liban admted to a car bomb this week that killed 12 people including an american soldier. joining me now on the issue and many others, mr. secretary of state mike pompeo. welcome to "meet the press." >> thank you for having me on the show. >> thank you for coming on. let me start with what this means. so he cancelled these talks. does this mean talks are off completely? >> well, for the time being that's absolutely the case. we've recalled the ambassador back to washington. we have been working on this for a number of month, frankly have

made real progress with the national unity and the taliban, our twin names were to reduce violence, i was a few hours ago at dover air force base meeting with first class soldier beretta, i met his lovely wife, precisely those moments make you recognize so clearly, we have an obligation reduce risk at the same time we cannot permit terror to strike again from afghanistan here into the united states. our negotiations have been aimed at achieving those and getting afghanistan for the first time. chuck you know over 15 years to actually sit at the table and talk about the path forward in a more peaceful way. >> i was going to say, if there is plenty of reporting that the afghan government indicated they weren't coming and they short of pulled out first, that how the time line of events went? >> that's false, chuck. >> okay. when did you know that this

meeting wasn't going to happen? >> i'm not going to talk about specifics, but we had been working on this meeting for a little while and then after the death of sergeant first class ber ret to and the attack by the taliban with a simple effort to improve their negotiating posture, that was something president trump can never stand for and we informed president ghani that these will not take place. >> if talibans had been killing americans throughout these negotiations and some criticized the government during this, why now? why wasn't this a problem before? >> well, it's always a problem any time the taliban conduct terrorist attacks, certainly when they injure americans or kill americans so it's always a problem. you should know in the last ten day, we've killed over a thousand taliban, this is not a war of attrition, i want the

american people to know that president trump is taking it to the taliban in protecting america's interests. we will never give up, a guy like scotty miller's capacity. we are dock it now, we did it yesterday, we will continue to do it. we knew the war continued. you got to get a deal an arrangement, both sides agree thatly stand back, reduce violence. we were making real progress from that, we had a commitment from the tal ban to make a formal announcement they would break with al qaeda, something an american demand that had gone back as far as president bush. we were making progress all the way. president trump was supportive of those issues, make no mistake, chuck, we will not withdraw our forces, any reduction will be based on actual conditions, not commitments, actual conditions on the ground. >> given the conditions appear to be worsening. >> chuck, that's not true. >> you don't believe? >> i don't believe that's true fruchlt the taliban, conditions have been worsening. they're about to get worse.

>> okay. you say about to get worse. so the u.s. this mean we are going to increase the military activity against the taliban? >> we're going to make sure that everyone in the region understands that america will always protect its national security interests. i'll leave it to the department of defense to talk about specifics. no one should underestimate president trump's commitment to achieving those goals. >> did anybody bring up whether it was appropriate to have the taliban set foot on camp david? there are some people that that was -- that didn't sit well with quite a few folks go everyone the important role camp david played in planning the response to 9/11. >> there were lots of discussions around that camp david has an important history and important role in complex peace negotiation, sometimes with pretty bad actors as you well know, chuck. there was discussions, the president ultimately made the decision if we could get that get commitments and put in place a verification regime that would

give us confidence that those commitments were honored, it was a useful effort to try and get all of those parties in one place so we could have serious conversations about how to reduce america's risk so there won't be other secretaries of state that have to travel to go see these amazing heros that have given so much for our country. >> i know you are not a big fan of time tables, does this mean the likelihood of withdrawing from afghanistan has been extended, it isn't going to happen in the next year, next two years that we may be looking at much farther down the road? >> chuck, i hope not, i tried to answer each of your questions, are you right, time tables are difficult things to know, i hope we can reduce the levels of violence, i hope the taliban will break with al qaeda and if we can do that, i hope that we can reduce our costs and blood and treasure there. >> you keep saying hope, hope is

always, i've noticed when officials say hope, that is usually the last word they say because they don't think progress is coming. you sound pessimistic? >> i'm not pessimistic. i've watched these negotiations unfold. i've watched the taliban do things and say things they have not been permitted to do before, frankly. i've watched the afghanistan government behave in ways i think that indicates nearly every afghan knows these wars can't continue. you a us the word hope. we hope to drive towards this outcome. we want to deliver most importantly on behalf of the american people. >> a domestic political note. i find you in your hometown of kansas, how come nobody believes your denials in the senate race. >> that's a cynical town. >> you could do the sherman f. deal, you could say, if nominated i will not serve, all of that business. have you not done that why? >> i have been pretty clear, chuck. i think others want to speculate on my future a lot more than i

do. as you can see from today, i am incredibly focused. it's not just hong kong and afghanistan, that's what i'm focused on and i intend to continue to do that. as long as president trump asked me to be a secretary of state, this is what i intend to. >> you will not be on the ballot 2020? >> this is what i mr. do. as long as president trump wants me to be secretary of state you will have me open your show. >> if you won't say you won't be an a ballot 2020 the kansas questions don't go away. >> they will go away. the clock continues to run. i think the american people should thinker that secretary of state thinks of one wing e thing and one thing only, probably protecting diplomacy every place i go. >> obviously, general sherman's comments are not something you are fair to quote today. >> my dog's name is sherman. i quote him all the time. >>r. secretary, you m welcome to fowler, indiana.

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. welcome back, this week the democratic party decided to close its last to offices in south dakota, effectively giving up on winning in the rural state f. that sounds like a retreat, it is, it has to lot to do with the urban world divide in this country. in 1996, the democrats lost by percentage points, creating lots of blue. compare that with 2016 result's by county, hillary clinton actually upon the popular vote by two percentage points. her blue is harder to spot, concentrated in urban and suburban areas. my comparing the smallest vote producing county to the largest, in 1996, bill clinton won six of the most ten populous counties, in 2006, she did bit better, won 9 out of 10, including phoenix, which she lost by 3 points.

bob deal of russell kansas won 80 of the 100 smallest producing county dms 1996 and queens' donald trump upped that from 93 to 100 in 2016. even though bill clinton won by a margin nationally. there are a lot of tight races all over the country in places where now we see blowouts. in fact, there were more than 1,100 counties across the country that had margins that were within single digits in 1996 paired to 2016 when the national results were very tight. there were only 310 counties where the margins between the two candidates were in the single digit range. that is a 72% drop in the number of competitive counties in just 20 years. of course, this urban rural divide is a familiar theme for david atlow watchers, here's the point, in a country as politically polarized as ours, we are self segregateing where

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. >> brack now with end game, joining our panel is democratic pollster stan greenberg. we has written a new book r.i.p. g.o.p. and argues it's likely to lead to a spectacular crash. he writes trump's pea party evangelical gop just can't be defeated, it must face a repudiating shattering defeat that frees other brands of the gop and conservatism to breathe again. welcome back to "meet the press." it remind you in 1992 you were the message maven that got bill clinton to think about the economy is stupid. >> i appreciate when they worried about working bill, bill clinton got that and won a lot of rural america in the progress you said you thought four years ago this republican coalition

that was going too far to the right was going to defeat itself but it didn't. >> right. >> what went wrong? >> it saved above all donald trump who didn't run as a republican. the reason i wrote the book was what i think i understood then was you had a tea party evangelical trump-dominated party at war with a new america with increasing immigrants and it was reacting against it. that's the reaction that people failed to notice. because a reaction amongst republican voters, second conservative, moderate women, independents pushed off. >> right. >> so the reaction against it. he's run this war on immigrants and what we've noticed with that is that the country is becoming more pro immigration as he wages that war and finally he has waged a war on government. the country lived through an attempt to dissolve government and make it fought be able to solve any problem and that is playing a reaction in the

democratic primary of people wanting to use government to address problems. >> you have been fighting this shift in the republican party, what do you think hoff this take? >> historically when we get arguments like this, my first response is this is a wish being the author of a thought. this may be different. the gop really does have severe structural issue, the loss of the suburban vote is a long-term problem. i think it's worth considering in polarization, people are democrats because they hate republicans, republicans hates democrats, the one party dies, the other loses the will to live. it may be different because people may leave to find the replacement after the gop. >> i agree. >> in fact, i want to end the discussion with a debate. this is, you sort of are arguing

that electability may not be what it is, elizabeth warren putting out more plans may be more responsive than joe biden is doing. >> because we are dealing with this transformative moment, there is real big dynamics shaping the election. one is the nature of the republican party. the second is this attempt to suppress government. the other is this battle against america being an immigrant country. but it's produced a consolidated democratic party that wants to vote for something that will bring change him but the result afterwards, i believe, is not a continuation. because i think this can't go any further. i think this polarization has gone to the point where democrats have grown to be a so point block of voters, very consolidated and anti-trump and determined for him to be defeated. i think they want an activist government. the republican party i believe

will coming out to address fundamental things the way democrats did after their 1984 defeat. >> amy. >> what will they have to address? that is the question. republicans did address what they felt were two big fundamental defeats if 2008 in 2012, right, it came out of that saying we got to be the diverse party and the electorate, the republican electorate said, no, we can win by just running essentially the campaign that donald trump did. we don't have to expand the coalition. i guess the questions that i have is this repudiation idea, i don't know that that's what 2018 theoretically was supposed to be, yet, it really wasn't, that republicans still did very well in red states and democrats did really well in blue states and in inner suburbs, but those outer suburbs are still republican. >> well, because i think there is a fillier to recognize how be ig the 2018 election was.

and some of what were missing is because the seats that are in play in the suburbs were at the edge of 50% being winnable. the biggest shifts against trump came amongst rural voters and working class voters and continuing to lose support with a class of women after the 2018 election. >> that meant that state elections can be greatly affected, senate races can be affected coming from 2004. >> kimberly, i think you've seen this, the democratic base is just reacting so much more enthusiasm to elizabeth warren ideas than they are joe biden ideas. i go es the question, what wins out in. >> well, i think it's a little too early to tell exactly what will win out, i think there is a divide in the democratic party some folks like elizabeth warren and bernie sanders who want to change thing, not to just outs trump and oust the elements that are affecting him. you have folks leaning towards biden that want things to go before they were on election

day. they are fighting within that, those motivators are different. >> he made the point it shouldn't surprise people that democrats are criticizing obama. did they go big enough. >> obama was a disappointment to liberals who supported him in 2008, thought he was going to be something more. remember he was an empty vessel, people filled their hopes and dreams and he wasn't necessarily with they thought. the identity crisis kim berly is talking inside the democratic party, that is probably the most important vantage to trump other than the economy if it stays strong. >> before we go, all week long, nbc news has been presenting justice for all, stories that focus on the impact of mass incarceration in america. tonight at 10:00 eastern, lester holt will moderate a town hall, there will be special guests, including john legend. we'll be back next week, because

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this week, car makers and government regulators steer towards a future without driver controls. is it safer to get rid of the steering wheel? automated driving expert jamie carlson and meet bart myer who wants all of us to speak nicely to each other on the internet. plus, could you live forever and would you want to? our reporters martin giles from m.i.t. technology review and john swart of dow jones this week on press here. good morning. there is a push by car maker