san francisco's e-cigarette protections. say no to juul, no to big tobacco, no to prop c. this sunday, the president and the whistleblower. >> iq don't know the identity o the whistleblower. i just hear it'sq a partisan person. >> president trump responds to reports that while he held up aid to otukraine, he was urging its president to create an investkuq%=9 targeting joe fá biden. >> i can say that it was a totally appropriate conversation. it wasi] actually a beautiful conversation. then without evidence suggests more. >> it doesn't matter what i discussed but i will say this. somebody ought took look into j biden's xdstatement. >> you should be looking at r peum9q crrjuz talk to chris murphy of

connecticut and pat toomey of the administration sending troops to saudi arabia. >> the president has approved the deployment of u.s. forces, which will be defensive in nature. >> as president trump weighs military and economic responses to that attack on saudi oil facilities. >> there's the ultimate option and there are options a lot less than that. >> my guest this morning, treasury secretary steve mnuchin. and as joe biden and elizabeth warren separate themselves from the field. >> hello, iowa! >> the rest of the candidates are on notice, with cory booker saying he'll get out in ten days if he can't raise enough money. >> you've got to grow. grow or get out. >> joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker, robert costa, national political reporter for "the washington post," former democratic congresswoman donna edwards and former republican congressman carlos curbelo. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press."

>> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. we're following two huge stories today, both of which could have far-reaching consequences at home and abroad. one involves war and peace. will the united states respond militarily against iran for last week's devastating attack on saudi arabia's chief oil facility? president trump is weighing the risks of war against the cost of appearing weak and encouraging more aggression. here the president is seen as acting conventionally, in the public interest, and in a manner many of us expect from a president. then there's the other story. that one concerns multiple reports involving a whistleblower, president trump and the mixing of foreign policy with 2020 politics. at issue, the allegation first surfaced by a whistleblower that president trump pressured ukraine's president to create an investigation into joe biden and perhaps withheld military aid as an inducement. here the president is accused of

acting unconventionally in his own personal interests testing the limits of the constitution again. and yet, it's in a manner many of us have come to expect from this president. and that's where we begin this morning, with the charge that mr. trump tried to engage a foreign government to go after the democratic candidate he sees as his chief political rival. >> it was a totally appropriate conversation. it was actually a beautiful conversation. >> president trump responding to reports that he repeatedly pressed ukraine's president in a july 25th phone call to work with his personal attorney, rudy giuliani, to investigate political rival joe biden. >> it doesn't matter what i discussed, but i will say this. somebody ought to look into joe biden's statement. >> that phone call is part of a broader set of facts named in a secret august 12th whistleblower complaint to the intelligence community's inspector general. mr. trump reportedly pushed ukraine's president zelensky to

pursue the probe of a ukrainian gas company with links to biden's son, hurnter, accusing joe biden have a conflict of interest. >> not one single credible outlet has given any credibility to his assertion. not one single one. >> giuliani denied putting pressure on ukraine. >> did you ask the ukraine to investigate joe biden? >> no. actually i didn't. >> before reversing himself and admitting it. >> you did ask ukraine to look into joe biden. >> of course i did! >> after ukraine's new president won in a landslide in april, mr. trump and giuliani began pressing him to investigate the bidens. in may -- >> i'm hearing it's a major scandal, major problem. very bad things happened and we'll see what that is. >> it's a case that is crying out to be investigated. >> then in june president trump made it clear that if a foreign government offered him help to win in 2020, he would take it. >> if somebody called from a country, norway, we have information on your opponent. oh, i think i'd want to hear it. >> days after the two presidents

spoke on july 25th, giuliani met with a ukrainian official in spain to press him again to pursue a probe of hunter biden. right around the se timeth united states froze military assistance to ukraine, prompting questions from lawmakers. >> the implication seems to be to the ukrainian president that if he does what rudy giuliani is asking him to do and investigates the bidens, maybe he will get the money that the president is holding back. >> the white house finally released the aid last week. the details in the whistleblower's complaint are still unknown. president trump's newly appointed director of national intelligence, joseph maguire, is refusing to release it to congress. >> this was about wrongdoing and the idea that that complaint, which was intended for congress, should instead end up in the white house is disturbing beyond belief. >> you should be looking at ump. trump is doing this because he knows i'll beat him like a drum.

he was using the abuse of power and every element of the presidency to try to do something to smear me. >> joining me now is democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut who actually recently met with president zelensky in ukraine. senator murphy, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning. >> so tell me what your conversation was like with the president, because i believe you met with him before the aid was released. >> right. >> and it was during this time that the aid passed by congress, but for some reason was being held up by the administration. tell me, was this meeting in kiev, number one, and what was the circumstances? >> i went to kiev because i heard the concerns that the government and zelensky was worried about these overtures he was getting in particular from rudy giuliani. he didn't understand if this was an official government position, these requests to investigate the former vice president. so i went there to make it clear to him that the worst thing that

he could do for the u.s./ukraine relationship was to get involved in an election here in the united states. i will say, what was interesting to me was that he dispensed with the diplomatic protocols of that meeting as soon as we sat down at the table in the presidential palace. he asked us what was going on with the aid, why was it being withheld? he seemed very concerned i think out of sorts about it. and then later in the meeting i raised with him these overtures from the trump campaign. he gave me a very strong answer. he said they had no intention to get involved in an american election. that they knew what damage it would do to them. i left that meeting fairly confident that he understood. >> what did the trump administration tell you officially when you were trying to figure out why -- what the holdup was? >> so the reason that was given in particular to senator johnson, who i was there with. >> ron johnson, republican from wisconsin. >> republican from wisconsin who talked to the president shortly before our visit to kiev. the reason that was given was

that the president was concerned about corruption in ukraine and he thought that the europeans should be providing the aid instead of the united states. those are the two reasons that were stated to us as we went. the embassy there didn't seem to have really a readout from the white house at all when we asked them about it. >> do you have any reason to believe that the aid was suddenly released in connection with the discovery of this whistleblower complaint to the public. >> the timing is obviously incredibly suspicious. there was also a pending vote in the appropriations committee that was going to require next year's aid to be released outside of the discretion of the president. there are likely a bunch of different explanations. political pressure was mounting on the president from republicans. obviously the timing of this looks really terrible. >> i want to show you another coincidence that we noticed here. these are the departures among people that were involved in russian and ukraine policy decisions inside the trump administration. the two top officials from dni, july 28, august 8. then three top officials in and around the state department or nsc.

the ambassador of ukraine in may was forced out. the president's russia advisor resigned in june, the ambassador to russia, jon huntsman, in august. maybe they're all coincidences, i'm not saying that. anything about that timeline of all those folks that you find troubling, because it's all happening at the same time that giuliani is doing his thing and the president is doing his thing. >> so the departure of the ambassador, one of the individuals on that screen, was very troubling to many of us. she was a credibly experienced, very well thought of diplomat. there seems to be no reasons for her departure. it's one of the reasons why in may i sent a letter to the foreign relations committee in the senate asking them to investigate these overtures that giuliani had been making and whether one of the demands that was being made was that this ambassador leave, because perhaps the ambassador at the time was frustrating the trump's campaign's efforts to try to get this new president to investigate bidens. >> i want some clarity here.

is the allegation that rudy giuliani was trying to get this ambassador out or the ukrainians wanted our ambassador out? >> i think the worry is that it may have been amongst the trump campaign's demands. i think it's really important to get to the bottom of why she left, under what circumstances she left and what was she unwilling to do. >> i want to put up a tweet that you sent out, i believe yesterday, if i'm not mistaken. don't get creative, you write. don't look for new interesting angles. this one is as simple as it gets. if an american president gets away with bullying foreign countries to do his political bidding, then we should just give up and accept our new banana republic. what's the next step? >> i don't frankly think it matters whether there was an explicit quid pro quo in this conversation with zelensky. i think if an american president is asking another foreign leader to interfere in an american election, essentially what we're trying to figure out what was going on between trump and putin, then there has to be

consequences for that. we spent a year trying to figure out whether he had asked putin to interfere. we just found out he asked zelensky to interfere. i don't think that it matters it's another country. >> so you're saying an impeachment investigation should be opened up right now? you're a former house member, you're now in the senate, you could be a juror, i understand that. it sounds like you're saying this one is open and shut. you just said here, don't get creative. >> i think this one would be open and shut if we had more information than simply anonymous sources that newspapers have written on. i think the whistleblower has to come forward. i think that republicans who claim to be national security experts need to demand that the whistleblower present himself or herself before congress. but i think if we do have evidence from this whistleblower that the president indeed tried to bully a foreign power into affecting our elections, then we have to do something about that. >> by the way, when the aid got released, they got an additional $140 million.

where did that come from? >> maybe an overcorrection on behalf of the president. >> do you know where that came from? >> no, i don't know the source of that secondary funding. >> did you guys appropriate this money? >> the president certainly has discretionary money that's available to him. it may have come from those accounts. >> but you have no idea and suddenly they got more aid. so do you view as that troubling? >> listen, i think this whole timeline is hard to figure out. there may be someone who can tell us more about all of it, and that whistleblower individual has to come before congress. >> senator toomey is going to come on here right after you. we're going to be discussing some other issues, but one of them is guns. he's pushing for manchin-toomey. where are you on this? did beto o'rourke -- chuck schumer is almost essentially pointing the finger that beto o'rourke has set things back. has he? >> i don't think that's true. listen, i think republicans who don't want to vote for a background checks bill are going

to look for any excuse to do it. beto's comments may be their latest hook. the fact of the matter is if donald trump supports a bill that expands background checks, we will get 60 votes for it in the senate. the attorney general brought up to congress last week a fairly reasonable proposal that would expand background checks to commercial sales. there's some things i don't like about it but it's absolutely a platform for negotiation. the nra opposes it. so the critical question now is sitting on the president's desk. is he willing to take on the nra? if he is, we'll get a background checks bill. >> by the way, you sound like a guy who says, hey, take what you can get every time you have a chance. don't try to let the perfect be the enemy of this. >> on this issue, this is about life and death, right? there are very few issues like it. i also think maybe what's most important in the long term perspective of the anti-gun violence movement is breaking this rock solid alliance between the nra and republicans, and this may be our chance to do it. >> democratic senator chris murphy from connecticut, thanks for coming on and sharing your

views. >> of course. >> joining me now is senate pat toomey of pennsylvania. welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. thanks for having me. >> i invoked your name there. we will get to the gun issue in a second. i want to ask you about the top story we've been dealing with this morning. the president has actually already commented again, as he's headed down to texas for an event with the prime minister of india. he is admitting that he did bring up joe biden in the phone call with the president of ukraine. does this look like a president asking f foreign assistance for his presidential prospects? >> very hard to say, chuck. i don't know what the conversation was. >> i just told you. he said he did bring up biden. was that appropriate on any level? >> i don't know the context, i don't know what was said. look, it is not appropriate for any candidate for federal office, certainly including a sitting president, to ask for assistance from a foreign country.

that's not appropriate. but i don't know that that's what happened here. >> do you think congress should get its hands on this whistleblower complaint? >> well, as you know, this is an example -- recent example of cases that have gone back from the beginning of the republic of the tension between the executive over private conversations versus congress' obligations and responsibilities for oversight. so what i think ought to happen here is what happens typically in these cases. you get some kind of negotiated agreement whereby the administration shares what they think is not -- doesn't need to be protected from national security purposes. it satisfies the members of the intelligence committees and allows us to determine whether this is something that really requires further investigation or not. at this point we don't know anything. we're getting bunch of leaked rumors and that's all we have. >> are you at all concerned, though, that aid was delayed for as long as it was and now at the same time we're finding out something -- there was a second track of conversation that was

going on while this aid was being delayed? does that at all concern you enough to say, you know what, it is congress' responsibility to look into this? >> so we should find out why that was the case. now, we also know that we have a president who's always been very skeptical about u.s. foreign aid to almost any country. so there might be a reasonable explanation for this and there might be a troublesome one and we should understand why that happened. >> but you do think congress should be looking into this in any way, shape or form at some point. this is their job to figure out -- i mean you guys appropriated the money. i would assume you'd want to figure out why it was delayed and why rudy giuliani may or may not have been involved with it? >> i certainly would want to know whether the law was followed, whether the president was exercising the discretion he actually has and for what reasons if there were delays. i don't know the relevance of rudy giuliani. he's not part of this administration.

but we certainly should understand how the funds that have been appropriated end up getting delivered. >> do you think rudy giuliani's role has been important? apparently the state department set up one of the meetings. >> i'm not aware of that. >> all right. let me move to the issue that i was discussing there at the end with senator murphy. the last time there was a vote on your bill on manchin-toomey was in 2015. sadly, and you know this already, i think, 5 of the 10 deadliest mass shootings have taken place since then. vegas, orlando, sutherland springs, el paso, parkland. i don't have to say anything other than those names. you're very aware of it. is this now the time, you say it is. it's stunning to me what has happened in the last four years when you look at it from that perspective. >> it is stunning, chuck. of course i'm making an all-out effort to get our legislation

passed. i will have to acknowledge that it's not clear that had manchin-toomey been law that any one of those particular shootings would have been prevented, although i think the shooting in odessa might have been blocked had manchin-toomey been law. but look, i think there's momentum now that we didn't have before. we have republican senators who are reconsidering the whole issue of expanding background checks to commercial sales, which is all we're talking about here. we've got a republican president who's very interested and personally engaged, so i don't know how this is going to turn out, but i'm hopeful and i'm going to keep pushing. >> i want to put up some quotes here. it seems to me there's a whole bunch of your republican colleagues who are essentially saying i'm not going to tell you where i stand until the president says where he stands. let me put up some of these. roy blunt, this does not go anywhere unless we explicitly know what the president's willing to do. chuck grassley, we aren't going to do anything that the president isn't going to sign anyway. john thune, in the end, trump is

going to have to make a hard decision. you guys are playing a game of chicken a little bit. at what point do you need to rce the president's hand and pass something? >> well, the problem is if we attempt to force the president's hand and pass something, it might very well not pass. having the president onboard would make all the difference. part of it, chuck, is the president has a unique bully pulpit. he can explain what this is, expanding background checks to commercial sales is very widely supported, even among gun owners and nra members. part of the problem we've always had is the mischaracterization of the legislation. the president can uniquely cut through that, make it clear what this is really about. i think we'd have a big collective sigh of relief from pro second amendment people, which i consider myself one of them, and then we could pass something really meaningful. >> how much has senator mike braun's argument carried the day with some skeptical republicans. he's been making an interesting

case essentially for your bill. not quite saying it that way but if you don't do what is common-sense reforms now and another five years goes by with no movement since the last time there was a vote on your legislation and that suddenly it won't be just background checks that has popular support. >> look, it's a strong point. i'm not sure quite how much it's persuading people, but i can tell you a number of republican senators are open to this who were not in the past. i do think that beto o'rourke does not help things when he advertises that his real plan is to confiscate guns. that's not helpful to this conversation. but the attorney general has been very constructive, very helpful. the president is engaged. we've got broader interest among republican senators than we've ever had. >> one quick question on iran. does the president have authority to strike iran right now or do you believe he has to come to congress? >> i think it's extremely

unlikely that we would have a unilateral strike against iran. by the way, the sanctions are working very, very well and this next round is likely to be devastating to the iranian economy. i do think that it's essential that we re-establish deterrents and the iranians have been demonstrating recently they don't feel very deterred. i would prefer that be led by a coalition of our gulf states, probably with u.s. support. that i think the president has full authority to do as commander in chief. >> senator pat toomey from pennsylvania, much appreciate you coming on and sharing your views. views. >> thas for having me, cnk hu when i lost my sight, my biggest fear was losing my independence. mmm... good. so i've spent my life developing technology to help the visually impaired. we are so good. we built a guide that uses ibm watson... to help the blind. it is already working in cities like tokyo.

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from the day you're born we never stop taking care of you. spokesman: fraudsters - they're meout to get from the day you're born your medicare number so they can bill fake claims in your good name. don't give them that chance. fraudster: just calling to confirm your medicare number. do you have your card available? spokesman: for example, if a caller says they're from medicare, watch out. it's probably a scam. don't give out your card number. and always check your claim statements for errors. report fraudulent charges to 1-800-medicare. guard your card. learn more at medicare.gov/fraud. welcome back the panel is here. former republican congresswoman, nbc news white house correspondent kristen welker, and robert costa for "the washington post" and moderator of "washington week" on pbs. well, the president is busy this morning, on his way to texas for

what will be quite an event with prime minister modi down there in houston but as he does all the time, kristen, he stopped to speak with reporters and he appears to have admitted that, yes indeed, he brought up joe biden in his conversations with the president of ukraine here he is >> we had a great conversation the conversation i had was largely congratulatory, on the corruption taking place, on the fact we don't want our people like vice president biden and his son creating to the corruption already in the ukraine. >> nothing is done by accident, kristen welker suddenly he is admitting the biden portion of this conversation, someone who was just reminded of what he said. >> right me have revisited the transcript and the phone call it moves the needle from what he said to me on friday when i asked him if he discussed joe

biden as a part of this conversation, and he said it doesn't matter what i discussed. is the president trying to push this into the headlines, this story, this controversial story, which is unsubstantiated the biden campaign says the allegations have never been substantiated. there's never been any evidence of wrongdoing. the bottom line is from the president's perspective the only way to put the story to bed is to release the transcript. i can tell you there's a debate right now in the white house ether or not to do that. what would the implications be for national security, what message would that send to other foreign leaders? and would it be gray -- >> secretary mnuchin will be on in a little bit, it's my understanding that the argument right now winning the day is don't. it sets a bad precedent. robert costa, are we being gas lit here meaning they have tried to create this storyline of somehow corruption that is somehow connected to biden

if there had withbeen no takersd because of the lengths to which the president has gone that this is actually in some ways strategic. >> they may have a political strategy at the white house, but the story remains the president's conversations with the president of ukraine, the former comedian and actor, i was in the room with him earlier this month in warsaw and talking ukrainian officials. they have felt this has been a bizarre experience for them for months they had rudy giuliani coming over to talk about maybe having an investigation into joe biden. this phone call with president trump. and then vice president pence went over in a meeting in poland and said you'd better investigate corruption the ukrainians have been saying to themselves, does this mean we must investigate corruption in order to get the $250 million? >> the president right now has admitted he brought up joe biden with the president at this point he is at -- how is that not asking for foreign assistance and, if so, let's not

get creative here as chris murphy said, has he committed an impeachable violation? >> most republicans tend to be elusive. you asked if it was appropriate. he said absolutely not it is not appropriate for the president, any president, to reach out to a foreign leader to ask for help for his election. pat toomey said it most republicans still will not say it that's what we have to focus on. there's a biden angle and everything else. at the end of the day it's the president asking another foreign leader for support for a u.s. election that is troubling. now politically could this end up helping him maybe this is going to fuel impeachment talks in the house this is going to put pressure on nancy pelosi again to take that step and we know people in the white house would like to see the president impeached because i they think it would help him politically. >> take a look at the pressure already this morning

i will put up a few quotes and tweets the bigger national scandal isn't the president's law breaking behavior. it is the democratic party's refusal to impeach him for it. congressman steve cohen, we back off everything we've been very weak senator elizabeth warren, by failing to act, college is complicit. >> well, i agree i mean, i think this is a president who clearly you give him an inch, he takes two miles. he's done that every time he moves the bar. and in this instance he learned nothing was going to happen after the mueller report and so i'll make that phone ca % call it makes them look week and this president takes advantage of every single opportunity >> i think the division, the confusion over impeachment was

laid bare when democrats seemed ill-prepared to deal with the barbs. this is adding fuel to the impeachment movementbarbs. this is adding fuel to the impeachmente1 speaker pelosi wants the investigations to play out we don't know everything that happened >> ask her again thursday.out. they also raised the fact we >> people have corey lewandowski, defiance, this white house says we're not cooperating at any level, and that's why democrats are simmering. >> i want to get the two of you on iran. you've had to make these tough decisions about agreeing to send troops david ignatius writes the following. for trump this is a self-inflicted wound now trump must decide whether to

fight a war he and the country don't want welcome to the middle east, mr. president. carlos, do you think that essentially the president miscalculated on the iran deal >> look, i think we have to be of people feared would be lot extremely impulsive, would get us into unnecessary wars here he's showing restraint and those who criticize him have to choose are they going to criticize him for being too aggressive or is this maybe now hypocritical when they're saying he's sending mixed messages iran is a terrorist regime they were going to carry out this expansionist campaign in the middle east regardless >> how do we know that >> they were doing it after president obama signed the nuclear agreement with them. so to say that iran is acting in this way in reaction to the president i don't think is really fair either i think the president does risk speaking loudly and carrying a small stick.

the opposite of what teddy roosevelt used to say. there is some risk there i think restraint is something most people celebrate when it comes to donald trump. >> donna >> this has stemmed from the president's pulling out of the iran nuclear deal and not having a plan "b. there was never a plan for what happened the day after you pull out of that deal and what we've seen is the devolution of all of the policy with iran precisely because the president never had an idea of where to go next. >> well, we're going to try to figure out where he's going next with my next guest confronting iran i'll talk to treasury secretary steve mnuchimnuchin. autiful wed! as your second cousin and number one broker... you're welcome. remember, carl, we haven't been investing with you for a while. hmmm? because schwab makes planning for things like this easier. yeah, with schwab we get automated investing and integrated planning help. for a low monthly subscription price. why would schwab do that? they help you plan for the things that matter.

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...with less. more data and precision... to help meet growing demand. that's going to get a lot of likes. chevron. innovating to meet the energy demands of today and tomorrow. welcome back. defense secretary mark esper this week announced the deployment of a few hundred u.s. troops to saudi arabia as well as some air and missile defense systems. this of course after that attack on saudi oil facilities last

week. the administration is blaming iran. president trump has said he'd prefer to avoid getting into a shooting war over the incident. mr. trump did announce new sanctions on iran's national bank tightening the economic pressure the administration has applied. joining me now is president trump's treasury secretary, steve mnuchin, who was involved in getting those sanctions imposed. secretary mnuchin, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good to be here with you. >> before i get to iran, this situation between the president, this whistleblower, his conversations with ukraine's president and this issue of an investigation, i assume you don't know some of these details but let me just ask this. do you know why the president hasn't gone to the fbi about these allegations? >> i don't. let me just say i wasn't on this call but i've been on many calls with world leaders. first of all, there are multiple people on these calls. i think it would be highly inappropriate to release a transcript of a call between two world leaders. i think the bigger story here is really what went on with biden

and his son. he came out over the weekend and said he never spoke to his son, yet the facts are his son said they had spoken. >> i don't understand how that -- i don't understand how that has anything to do with what's going on with this situation. going back to what you just -- if the president believes an american is committing something -- doing something wrong, why didn't he go to the fbi? why is he outsourcing the investigation to the ukrainian government? >> i don't know if -- i wouldn't know if he -- i don't believe he did outsource the investigation. i wasn't on the call. >> okay. >> and i don't know what conversations the president has had with the attorney general. he may have had conversations already. >> do you know if -- why the aid was delayed, and did it have a connection to the ukrainian president's decision not to work with rudy giuliani? >> well, that i can tell you that there was no connection. i have been involved with secretary pompeo and others on the national security team on the issue of the aid. >> how do you know? how do you know for sure?

is there -- do you know 100%? >> well, what i know is i've been in discussions when we discussed that and that issue never came up. >> during your meetings. >> absolutely. >> with the president. and can you explain how all of a sudden when the aid got released more mone showed up? where did that money come from? there was $250 million and they got an additional $140 million that they didn't expect. where did that -- do you have any idea where that came from? >> well, it was appropriated money that came through the state department. >> so was there -- they didn't know they were getting this money. there is any indication why they got the money when they did? >> i'm not sure it's correct for you to say they didn't know they got the money. >> the president said he was surprised to get it. the president of ukraine said he was surprised to get an additional $140. he said it was a pleasant surprise, but that he was surprised. >> i think he was referring to his expectations as opposed to surprise. you're getting into details -- again, these are foreign policy issues, they have been discussed at the national security council

at the principals level. these were not connected issues. >> but do you have any problem with congress looking into any of this? >> what i have a problem with is congress asking for a transcript between world leaders. i think that those are confidential discussions and that's a difficult precedent. >> but does the president have any -- he says he said nothing inappropriate, so why not release the transcript? >> because, again, i think that these are confidential discussions between world leaders and world leaders expect that they're going to be kept confidential. has nothing to do with this call per se. >> okay. let me move to iran. >> thank you, because that is the bigger issue. >> look, war and peace, i'm with you here. let me ask you about iran. you guys made a decision to do more economic sanctions. it has led to a lot of us to say what's left to sanction economically. is there a point where these sanctions have diminishing returns? >> well, let me just put this in perspective and then i'll comment on the details of the sanctions. this was clearly an iraq -- an

event against -- from iran against not just saudi arabia but really against the world economic system, and that's why the president has reacted. the first thing he did was authorize more sanctions against the central bank and against the sovereign wealth fund. although we're pretty much maxed out on iran, we will begin to sanction third-party entities where we see violations. and we take our responsibility very serious low. >> third party meaning other countries that accept iranian oil or anything like that? >> correct. we will begin to go after. >> india was doing this. i assume they have since stopped, but they're not happy that they can't get iranian oil. >> i can't comment on whether they're happy or not happy. i think our allies understand what we're doing with iran. this is a maximum pressure campaign so that iran stops exporting terrorism and attacking their neighbors. >> is there any acknowledgement here that the campaign is not working, meaning, i think the

theory of the case was maximum pressure, more sanctions, get out of the nuclear deal, they'll come to the table. they have since shot down an american drone, done what they have done -- hijacked tankers, this attack in saudi. obviously it's not working. >> no, i think -- >> i mean if they're not coming to the table, it's not working. what's the next step if you still can't get them to the table after all of this? >> i think quite the contrary. i think this is an example of it's absolutely working because what we've done is we've cut off the iranian regime's money. and they are now desperate. so all these actions are because their economy is suffering, they're running out of money and these are all signs of desperation. so our maximum pressure campaign is about weakening iran so that they can't spend money on terror. so i think this is absolutely a sign of desperation that the campaign is working. >> what are you saying to folks like senator lindsay graham, let me put up the tweet. the measured response by president trump regarding the

shooting down of an american drone is clearly seen by the iranian regime as a sign of weakness. many of your allies that are a little more hawkish than the president believe the iranians are simply testing the electrical fence essentially. and every time we don't respond to something, it means we can keep going. do you buy that? >> i like lindsay a lot. i consider lindsey a good friend. i don't agree with him on this. i think the president has specifically said, he said this in the oval office with the australian prime minister, it would be very easy to make the decision to attack. it's actually the decision of restraint. so the president is on a three-part plan at the moment. one is sanctions, two he authorized troops to go to saudi arabia for defensive purposes which saudi has questioned and we're expediting arms sales. the military option is always on the table. >> there's a headline in the editorial board of "the washington post" that simply says should u.s. troops put their lives on the line for saudi arabia? it's complicated. it's a simple question with

obviously a complicated answer. but speak to the parents of troops that are thinking about that question. >> well, look, when the president thinks about these issues, the first thing he thinks about is the issue for the troops and i will say i have tremendous respect for the military and the sacrifice these troops make every day. so that's an issue that i'm sure the president always thinks about. on the other hand, this is responding to an ally and friend of ours and this is not just an attack on saudi arabia, this is an attack on the world economic system. we are sending troops there in a defensive posture. >> secretary mnuchin, treasury secretary for the president of the united states, thanks for coming on and sharing your views, i appreciate it. >> thank you. when we come back, the latest from our nbc news/"wall street journal" poll, why the good news for democrats could turn out to be bad news for them. as we go to break, there are two passings that we want to note. we lost sandra vanocre who

woorkd right here and was one of the panelists at the kennedy/nixon debate in 1960. >> the correspondents, i'm sander vanocre, nbc news. >> he also interviewed robert kennedy shortly before kennedy was assassinated in los angeles. he was 91. we also lost cokie roberts at the age of 75. cokie was more than a tv journalist, she was a friend, a competitor and a sunday morning comic. she was a co-host of "this week" from 1996 to 2002. a louisiana native, she was famously the child of politicians, the daughter of hale boggs who died in a plane crash and of lindy boggs. she was celebrated for helping young women break into a business that was not always welcoming to them but cokie

roberts wanted to be remembered for something more personal. >> i'd like to be remembered as >> i'd like to be remembered as a mother and a wife and friend (classical music playing throughout)

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welcome back. data download time. is the energy and enthusiasm of the democratic primary moves to the left, our poll found the overall electorate of registered voters seem poised to reward a democrat, but one who doesn't take things too far. first there is good news for progressive democrats who do favor big change in a few areas. take a look at support for providing free tuition at state colleges and universities. 81% of democratic primary voters support that idea compared with 58% of registered voters. so a majority of voters overall. pretty good sign for that idea. what about providing college for so-called dreamers. 89% of democrats support that along with 67% of registered voters. again, some synergy there. remember when supporting a

public option was considered risky. 78% approve of buying health coverage through a medicare coverage along with two-thirds of registered voters. as some democrats have argued, not all progressive ideas have a majority support among all voters. take certain parts of health care. while 64% of democrats want to give government health care to undocumented immigrants, only 36% of all registered voters agree. 63% of democrats support a medicare for all single payer health care system in which, quote, private health insurance would be eliminated compared with only 41% of registered voters who would like to see that. look, for the past generation pollsters have found this to be a center right country on some of these policies, something that has favored moderate republicans on some fiscal issues. while these numbers suggest a shift to the left, it's not to the extent that progressive democrats may want. maybe we're center-center or heading to center-left. the next six to eight months will determine where the

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back now with end game. something happened this week in the presidential race. the polls that are out is showing a similar finding which is the sorting has begun. here it is in iowa, elizabeth warren sitting at 22%, joe biden at 20%, then a nine-point gap between second and third place to sanders at 11, buttigieg 9, harris 6. donna edwards, it does look like our poll basically had a 56% of democrats choosing either biden or warren, 41% choosing the other 22. i think we're starting to see a sorting here. what does this mean? >> this is a race. it's a two-person race in my view. i think that -- you can see who's gaining and losing in the poll. i mean bernie clearly losing and elizabeth warren gaining. >> kamala harris and pete buttigieg -- especially buttigieg looks like it all went

to her. >> and voters are saying we're going to have two really good choices here, we want to hear from them. what surprised me is that elizabeth warren's like sort of unfavorability, people who were detractors, has actually gone down, which is very significant in terms of her being able to secure a nomination. >> in our poll, her personal rating is getting better. joe biden's personal rating is not. this is putting downward pressure on a couple of candidates. cory booker and kamala harris in particular are not hiding the desperation. take a listen. >> this is a determining moment for us. we either are going to reach a $1.7 million to stay in this race or we're going to have to make really tough decisions at the end of this quarter. >> i don't know if you heard, but i'm kind of planning to kind of live in iowa. >> kristen. >> i think it underscores the fact that those are two candidates, booker and harris, who are running as moderates and it feels as though this moment is about, you know, joe biden,

obviously representing one side of the democratic party, elizabeth warren representing progressives. and it seems like she's surging because there is that energy within the democratic party. i also think it's notable that the difference between sanders and warren is larger than the difference between sanders and buttigieg. they're divided by just two points. buttigieg, by the way, his campaign feels like, look, we still have some room to grow because his favorabilities are so high. we'll have to see, time is running out. >> bob, is third place going to matter if one and two is warren and biden. >> it may not, especially if senator warren keeps gaining this kind of traction. you listen to her speech earlier this week in new york city speaking to 20,000. she's not just running as a massachusetts senator, she's running as a message. this is an economic populist who started with consumer protection work for years. and she is running as a counter to president trump on that economic populist message and that is what makes her a powerful candidate in a field full of people who are running

as different kinds of personalities or policy pitches. she has a broad theme that has carried her to this point. >> she's also going to get the front-runner status -- the front-runner treatment. >> let's see what she looks like in six months. >> and this is also becoming a race about two strategies, right? do democrats go for a base versus base strategy, the liberal democratic base against trump's base or do they go for a candidate that can build a coalition, reach out to those swing voters. that is going to be the choice a lot of democrats are going to be making when they go to the polls. >> donna, i want to show you something because you and i have seen this through previous democratic campaigns and it's the two coalition that warren and biden have put together. biden has a coalition of african-americans, men that are over the age of 50, men and women over the age of 65 and self-described moderates/conservatives. the warren constituency is liberals, kroej educated women, men and web under 50, those who want large-scale change. when i saw that, i did not automatically assume, oh, warren is on the move.

i said, oh, that looks like gary hart, paul tsongas, bill bradley, howard dean. she needs african-american voters and there's yet to be any clue she's going to win them over. >> i think that's true. but when you look at elizabeth warren, i remember in the spring she started out with like 1% approval among african-americans and that number actually has started to tick up. i saw her in the lower teens among african-americans. but they don't know her. and they trust biden and they know him. and so i think it's going to be a tough call. once you get out of iowa and new hampshire, you've got to go to south carolina where there are african-american voters and that's where she's going to have to win this election. >> and that's sort of the -- i'm not sure who's got the bigger challenge, biden winning over the skeptical progressives or warren winning over sort of the skeptical small c conservative democratic voters who are like, look, it's about getting trump. >> that's right. i think, look, biden knows that he has a lot of support among african-americans, so that could make a big difference for him. elizabeth warren, as she tries

to win them over, she's going to have to answer tough questions about her policies, including her health care plan whach. what does it mean for middle class taxes. >> and moderates may start looking around. the fall matters. >> do you think so? >> at this point they're with vice president biden but with senator booker out there and mayor buttigieg drawing a big crowd in iowa, you could see senator klobuchar, buttigieg, booker, others starting to get a look as the moderate wing wonders is biden truly viable in a general election and to be the nominee. >> i'll have to leave it there because this is a conversation on that score that i know we'll continue to have. i think you're right, biden/warren may be the topic quite some time. that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪

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kaiser permanente's integrated care team will help you get through life without missing a beat. kaiser permanente. thrive. of crisper, gene editing that could change the world. trevor martin, founder and ceo of mammoth bioscience is by guest this morning. plus, can you make money doing the right thing? we look at venture capitalist investment in the environment. and later, how pharmaceutical start-ups convinced men to pay mew through marketing. our reporters, kristen v brown from bloomberg. and business insiders, aaron broadway, this week on "press:here." good morning, everyone i'm scot