>> some, thou@áy stayed5a sil. >> i would say i don't know thai we have that information in front of us. t reportsym emerge that the feds have opened a criminal investigation intoe1 rudy giuliani's work in ukraine.kook one of the committee chairs leading the inquiry.çó

plus, scenes of ethnic cleansing by pro-turkishq forces in syria. >> we thought for theñi &raáu ti allegedçó atrocities carried ou by qt(turkish-backed militias. >> this after president trump orders a pullback of u.s. troops.w5e1ñrñr >> and ashley parker, white house reporter for "the washington post."ñi welcome to sunday, it's "meet

the press."ñiño't(ñii]çórs÷ the longest running s nbc history.jffá >>ñiñi good sunday morning.e1r turkey has unleashed a brutal assault on our allies, the kurds. that invasion came after president trump gave turkey the go-ahead. andt( nbc news chief foreign correspondent richard engel is reporting on scenes of alleged atrocities and these have been caught on r chard is covering.

>> has been broken into and the detainees inside have managed to escape. we just came from a prison and saw that every day now the riots and attempts to escape where we

are bringing those militias right on the doorstep of u.s. forces. >> richard engel with very disturbing issues. stay safe as you cover the story and thank you for bringing that important information. look, president trump is under fire even from republicans for pulling u.s. troops out of northern syria. the other battle the president is fighting is impeachment, and it's also the direct result of his own action. in that case he's accused of using the power of his office to interfere in a foreign country, ukraine, for political gain. with rudy giuliani as his personal emissary. we may be seeing the most serious constitutional crisis since watergate. >> an illegal, invalid and unconstitutional [ bleep ] impeachment. >> president trump lashing out as he grows increasingly isolated. >> impeachment. i never thought i'd see or hear that word, with regard to me. >> reporter: the "new york times" reports that the president's lawyer, rudy

guiliani is under federal criminal investigation into whether he violated foreign lobbying laws in his work in ukraine. the president seemed to quickly try to distance himself. [ inaudible question ] >> well, i don't know. i haven't spoken to rudy. i spoke to him yesterday briefly. he's a very good attorney and he has been my attorney, yeah, sure. >> there is some confusion as to whether or not you still consider him your attorney? is he your attorney? >> yes, and he's a great gentleman. he was a great mayor. i know nothing about him being under investigation. >> reporter: two of guiliani's business associates, lev parnas and igor fruman, who helped investigate joe biden in ukraine were arrested late wednesday, charged with allegedly funneling foreign money into u.s. elections. >> this investigation is about corrupt behavior, deliberate law breaking. >> reporter: according to indictment, the two men donated money, violating legal limit to them congressman pete sessions,

referred to as congressman one, asking him to remove or recall the u.s. ambassador to ukraine, marie yovanovitch, then wrote a letter to secretary pompeo. parnas and fruman disguised the source of a $325,000 donation to a pro-trump super pac. >> i don't know those gentleman. >> you are in pictures with them. >> it's possible i have a picture with them. because i have pictures with everybody. i don't know, maybe they were clients of rudy, you'd have to ask rudy. >> reporter: on friday, she says they forced her out of her job because her anti-corruption efforts in ukraine frustrated their political goals. >> why did you recall her? >> i heard very bad things about her. i don't know if i recalled them or somebody recalled them, i heard very bad things about her for a long period of time. >> reporter: senators in tough re-election fights have ducked

direct questions on ukraine. >> i'm asking you if it's appropriate for a president to ask a foreign power to investigate his domestic political rival, yes or no. >> i would say i don't know we have that information in front of us. >> you are not answering -- we want to hear from you. >> joining me now the chair of the foreign committee, elliot engel, one of the three committee chairs leading this house impeachment inquiry. welcome. >> thank you. it's great to be here. >> i want to start with normally your days are filled with, which is the foreign affairs of this country and the what's happening. you saw richard engel's report from what he's seen on the ground and what we've seen there. it seems as if all of the concern people like yourself, bipartisan lawmakers, had expressed is now happening. what can we -- is there anything to be done now? >> well, i hope that the house will vote for my bill. i have two bills that we're putting up this week and it's bipartisan, by the way.

mike mccaul is the ranking republican member on my foreign affairs committee. he is doing this with me. it's an engel-mccaul bill. what it essentially does is it first of all it condemns the president's policy with regard to the kurds, which is very important, and slaps sanctions on turkey and all the people involved with what's going on. >> what does that do, though? are sanctions at this point going to do anything? the president threatened sanctions on friday. it didn't stop the kurds from what doing what they're doing? >> no, it's not going to stop. we have to have some kind of response. chuck, i can think of nothing more disgusting in all the years i've been in congress than what this president is allowing to happen with the kurds. they have been our loyal and faithful allies for so many years. after this who again would trust the united states to be an ally of them? who would think it pays for them to align themselves with us?

nobody. this is going to make people flee from us. it's just absolutely disgraceful that the president of the united states is facilitating all of this. >> i hate to put it in these terms, is it now too late to do anything? is this sof -- l's say the president said you know what, i've seen this video, i want to stop this, at this point wouldn't we be putting our troops in harm's way with the turks? >> yes, we could mitigate the damage. of course, it's spiraling quickly. and what's happened, of course, is a lot of isis prisoners, we've gotten reports that they have been released or they've escaped and so this is just the tip of the iceberg. and if we think this is terrible, i predict we will have many, many more days, weeks and months of terrible things like this. i don't know what it is with president trump, he likes strong men.

he likes to associate himself with people like erdogan, who is the leader of turkey. but that is not what the united states should be doing. >> two things. is turkey -- turkey is technically a nato ali, they are an american ally. are they acting like an american ally? >> no, just the opposite. they are acting like a russian ally. they are buying russian missile systems, not buying the united states missile systems. >> should we kick them out of nato? should there be a movement to kick turkey out of nato? >> i think it's something to be considered. how you do have a nato ally who is in cahoots with the russians when the russians are the adversaries of nato. if you go back to the end of world war ii, the united states prevented all these countries, including turkey, from falling into the soviet orb. so how ironic now, 75 years later, turkey is looking at the russians like they're the best friends in the world, erdogan is a bad guy, i'm disgusted an

american president would feel comfortable with someone like erdogan. >> let me move to the impeachment inquiry. two things, ambassador yovanovitch. what did you learn from her? that you think the american people needs to know? >> first of all, the ambassador has been a highly respected career ambassador. we have many of those in the state department. from the time she came to ukraine, she was harassed and they got rid of her. she didn't know. i'm saying things that generally is known because i'm not really allowed to say what happened. >> are we going to see the full transcripts at some point? >> i think at some point. of all of these folks. kurt volker, these eight, nine hour sessions, are we likely, the american people, going to read the transcripts? >> i think the american public should. i think the american public has a right to know. we need to open the door and let the fresh air come in. that's what the democrats are trying to do. the president at every turn is

trying to stymie us and disregard us. you know remember when you were a kid and you learned the different branches of the government checks and balances, well take that all and throw it out. because the president doesn't think that congress has any right to check and balance the executive. >> gordon sondland, the ambassador says he wants to testify, is encouraging him not to and, saying on the quo quid pro quo comment in his text he was essentially saying that was the president. what do you make of ambassador sondland sort of taking a step back it seems? >> let me say i'm delighted he is coming in. we think it will be this thursday. i'm anticipating hearing what he has to say because he's certainly key. >> you understand why the ambassador to the eu was the point person on ukraine? >> i don't. >> you have not gotten an answer to that question? >> no, it doesn't make sense. obviously, he shouldn't be.

apparently he was close relations with the president and the president likes him. >> you had said you are fine if there is a vote in the house impeachment inquiry. why not at this point? why not put everybody on the record, republicans and democrats, everybody seems to want to be on the record. put them on the record. >> we can go on the record by having impeachment hearings. i don't know if we have a step to push them further back. >> does it bother you to vote? >> it doesn't bother me to vote. but the republicans would rather talk about anything else other than what's happened. they throw this out, there should be a vote. if we had a vote on that, they'd come up with six other things. there needs to be a vote. i think there needs to be impeachment inquiry and we should stop the delaying tactics of the republicans. >> congressman eliot engel, one of the chairs running this inquiry, thank you for coming on. >> always a pleasure, cluck. joining me now republican rand paul of kentucky, sits on the senate side, senator paul is

also the author of the new book "the case against socialists." welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thank you, chuck. thanks for having me. >> i hope you caught our report from richard engel and what he's seen on the ground. i know what your views are philosophically. i want to get to that in a minute. are you concerned this decision was too hasty and it created a more chaotic situation than necessary? >> well, i think one of the things about the arab militias that turkey is using that your reporter reported on, it's interesting some are from the free syrian army, which is our ally for seven years, which shows how messy this is. turkey was an ally, the free syrian army has been an ally and the kurds in syria. it's a complicated, messy situation. i think a lot of people are not acknowledging that turkey was coming in one way or another and 50 soldiers would be in the way, would be a trip wire to a worse

outcome so i think the president was right in moving soldiers out of tens of thousands of turks and kurds. >> why are you so convinced of that? i'm not going to get to exactly whether it was 50 and all that, it does seem as if our soldiers being there was serving as a deterrent to erdogan for a period of time. >> they were until they weren't. they were until the turks decided they were coming. the turks gave us forewarning. the president made a decision you don't go to war with 50 soldier, 50 soldiers don't deter anything. once the turks said they were coming, it would be foolish to leave 50 soldiers in the wake of thousands coming across the war. this is a hundred year old war, between the turks and the kurds. realize the president is asking is it in our national security interest to find out how the kurds can live with the turks? the other interesting thing is all the kurds aren't the same. the iraqi kurds are cooperating with turkey to turn in kurdish workers party officials that

they see as terrorists. so the iraqi kurds are turning over some of these kurds aligned with the syrians. realize all the kurds aren't the same on every side of every border. >> i'm glad you brought this up. when you were running for president, you had a proposal on how you would handle this situation at the time and i want to play it for you, because i'm curious if you still hold the same view. take a listen. >> so i would provide arm armaments to the kurds as well, in fact, i'd promise them a homeland and a state, but i would do it in conjunction with talks with turkey, a three-way discussion, kurds homeland, but i would like to get the turks involved as well. >> it's an interesting proposal. i think are you not alone in that. i think a lot of people at some point would argue the turks need a home. have you shared that idea with the president? >> i haven't spoken directly with him. there is a kurdish semiautonomous region in iraq.

what i was referring to as iraq, and i still do agree with that sentiment. as we've gone stability in iraq and the kurds have a lot of self-control in governing sort of a province, there is actually 1,800 turkish businesses doing business in that part of iraq who is controlled by the kurds. it's a prosperous oil region. there is back and forth between the turks and the kurds and it actually works pretty well. these kurds don't get along with the syrian kurds so well. many of the syrian kurds have been trying to break off part of turkey into independent countries. it's been going on for close to 100 years. many of the kurds in syria were expelled or exiled from turkey in the 1920s, '30s, and '40s. so there is this long history. the question we have to ask, i'm going to ask is, am i going to send the sons and father to die to figure out how the kurds and the turks can get along, i don't see that in our national interest. we should vote on it and declare war if that's what people want.

>> senator, i get that. what about that line that says, america made a commitment to these folks. you may not agree with that policy decision at the time. but abandoning them could lead to a worse outcome. look, that's -- these are not easy decisions, but what do you say to that line? >> actually, what president trump said was not i'm committed to making a kurdish homeland in syria. he says we will wipe out isis to the benefit also of the kurdish people who live in that region. >> but if isis is back -- >> that's to be debated. i would say isis has been militarily defeated and whether they come back or not is conjecture at this point. but what i would say is this, we have to debate in congress. we are -- my oath is to the constitution. my oath isn't as to some promise somebody thinks we made for a

kurdish homeland. here's the reason we won't vote, they don't know who to declare war on,? are we going to declare war on turkey or assad and really to tell you the truth what needs to happen is we need to exert our leverage and pressure to bring all sides together and ultimately it's probably in the kurds' best interests to be aligned with assad. as long as we say assad needs to go, we're never getting to a peaceful situation. assad is staying. if assad were aligned with the kurds were given semiautonomy in their region, in iraq they have a semi autonomous region. what if the kurds were under syrian sovereignty but had a semi autonomous region up there, you might find some peace with that if syria would guarantee they will not have incursions across the border into turkey. which means everybody needs to be at the table having this discussion. >> the president quietly sent more troops to saudi arabia and claims the saudis are going to pay for those troops. are you comfortable with the

u.s. military being treated almost like a mercenary force for the saudis? >> i'm not. in fact, i would withhold troops and arms from the saudis until we see better behavior. i think our arms uniquely belong to the american people and we shouldn't be sending them to the saudis until we see a change in their behavior. it's inconsistent to say we're not going to be there for endless, senseless wars and have them in saudi arabia. one thing that bin ladin motivated him, one of the things he said that motivated him were troops in what they considered to be their holy land. i think having troops in saudi arabia becomes a magnet r all the crazy jihadists around the world to motivate them to attack again. >> on the issue of impeachment on what's going on, i'm curious, are you disturbed at all by the role rudy guiliani has been make as a private citizen here, possibly dabbling in foreign affairs in ways that frankly is now being investigated, but there seems to be a shadow

foreign policy he might have been running. does that bother you at all? >> i think what's interesting about this is both sides seem to be doing the same thing. if anything is consistent here is both parties are trying to involve themselves in ukraine. for example, four senators, democrats, wrote a letter to the ukrainian government and said if you don't keep investigating trump, we may reconsider our bipartisan support for your aid. both parties seem to be doing this.zjom that's why ultimately the american people are going to say, well, biden threatened the aid, menendez threatened the aid. >> that is misleading. i understand that they could get gas lit and think it's all equal and both sides of it. but i'm talking about specifically -- >> i'm making the argument they're both doing the same thing. >> two wrongs make a right? >> well, what i would do, i wouldn't give them any aid because we are borrowing that money from china to send it to ukraine. i disagree we trying to manipulate them in anyway.

i wouldn't give them the aid period. i wouldn't say you get the aid if you do x for me. let's build roads and bridges in america, not over there. >> are you comfortable with the role rudy guiliani has been playing on behalf of the president? >> i don't know enough of what he's doing. i know he traveled over there to seek more information on hunter biden. americans think it doesn't pass the smell test. most people think there is corruption involved with hunter biden. i hope we get to the bottom of that. >> i see you wanted to get that in there. you think it's perfectly legitimate for the president to use his personal attorney and go to a foreign country to seek help for a political campaign? >> i think it's equally as legitimate as the democrats going there and saying we should investigate trump. they really did. menendez and four other senators -- >> manafort is doing shady business is in jail for the business he was doing. >> democratic senators say the same thing. >> is that not the same thing? >> if you condemn trump you need to condemn the democratic

senators. it shouldn't be one-sided. everybody is going after president trump. someone needs to actually in an objective way evaluate a letter from four democrats that said to ukraine, if you don't keep investigating trump, we will reconsider our bipartisan support for aid. that's a threat and that's the same kind of stuff they're accusing trump of. nobody is talking about the democrats are doing exactly the same thing. >> unfortunately, i'm out of time. thank you for sharing your book and your views. when we come back, my first sit down with the first secretary of defense jim mattis secretary of defense jim mattis and what he has to say as a small business owner, the one thing you learn pretty quickly, is that there's a lot to learn. grow with google is here to help you with turning ideas into action. putting your business on the map, connecting with customers, and getting the skills to use new tools. so, in case you're looking, we've put all the ways we can help in one place. free training, tools, and small business resources are now available at google.com/grow

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or trips to mars. no commission. delivery drones, or the latest phones. no commission. no matter what you trade, at fidelity you'll pay no commission for online u.s. equity trades. but allstate helps you. with drivewise. feedback that helps you drive safer. and that can lower your cost now that you know the truth... are you in good hands? . welcome back. it was last december that retired general jim mattis resigned as president trump's first defense secretary. he did so over policy differences including the president's decision then to

withdraw u.s. forces from syria and his rejection overall of international alliances. well, general mattis is the offer of a new book "call sign chaos, learning to lead." i sat down with him before we learned of the alleged atrocities richard engel is reporting on. i began to ask him his assessment of northern syria. >> no what we see is the continued reliance we have on allies. the fight against isis was fought largely by the syrian democratic forces. we have lost during several years of fighting in syria, for example, less than a dozen troops. each one a tragedy, but the syrian democratic forces, primarily the kurds have lost well over 11,000 killed, over 23,000 wounded. so you see how we are fating this enemy doing it in a way by, with, and through allies that spreads the load, so it's not just the american people, the american taxpayer, the american troops carrying the full load. >> do you feel as if -- are we

still doing this fight now? or we have pulled back and it's now up to the kurds on their own? >> well, it's -- it's in a situation of disarray right now. obviously, the kurds are adapting to the turkish attacks. we have to see if they'll maintain the fight against isis. lit have an impact. the question is how much. >> how could you turn this around if you could? >> that's a very good question, you turn issues like this around based on trust and re-instilling trust is going to be very difficult for the americans at this point. >> their a movie called charlie wilson's war that the theme of it is, has to do with the americans walking away from the mujahadin in afghanistan and of course we all know what happens 20 areas later. how concerned should we be about abandoning an ally like the kurds that maybe 20 years down the road this comes to pass?

>> i think secretary of state pompeo, the intelligence services, the foreign countries that are working with us have it about right that isis is not defeated. we have got to keep the pressure on isis so they don't recover. we may want a war owe, you may declare it over. you can pull your troops out as president obama learned the hard way out of iraq. the military gets a vote as we say in this case. if we don't keep pressure on, isis will resurge. it's absolutely a given that they will come back. >> is turkey an ally? >> turkey is a nato ally. absolutely. >> nato ally. i understand, officially. are they acting like an ally? >> nations have interests and they have legitimate security concerns what happened with the pkk and active insurgency inside turkey. i think what we got to do is find the common ground. turkey's security is not enhanced by the pullback of the

american forces. >> turkey doesn't know that, do they? turkey has a different view of it. that's wre diplomats have got to figure out a way forward. >> if you were ahead of the pentagon right now, i'm curious how you would react to a troop saying the following. this is what a distraught soldier on the front lines fighting alongside the syrian defense force. i am ashamed for the first time in my career. said the distraught soldier. american troops are doing nothing, the source lamented, sitting by and watching it unfold, of the president's decision, the source said he doesn't understand the repercussions about this. are you concerned about troop moral? >> we are always concerned about troop moral. we have a 100% vol ter force. all the marine, coast guard, have looked forward past the hot political rhetoric and rallied to the flag. we have to alwayse concerned with this. we have got to have policies that make sense on the front line. mostly that make sense in terms

of the defense of the country. the troops are committed. they've signed a blank check payable to the american people with their lives to defend this experiment that you and i call america. and so their views on matters of policy are important to us. and how do we bring them on board and keep their heart and soul committed to the mission? it's always critical. >> are you concerned that while the country speaks with one voice on a governmental level when it comes to russia that the political leader is not? >> no i won't make political assessments right now. the military job is to protect this experiment. this america. the american people will decide who the political leaders will be. i have a lot of faith the american people will be represented by the right political leaders. >> i'm curious how you handle all of the recommendations you get in the media to speak out. as you know there is probably a column every other day somebody says, i'll put up headline, some of them. you've seen them. it's time for these officials to

come to the aid of their country. trump is in free fall. we need insights on his fitness from ttis, kelly and others. now. first of all, congress suspend you and for to try to find out what you knew about decision-making pros sayss, when it came to ukraine or other things. would you cooperate? >> well, i'd have to know specifically what it was about. i moon i owe ba i the law. i've obeyed the law my entire life so that's not the issue. but again, remember that the defense department stays outside of politics for a reason. there is a long-standing tradition why you do not want the military to be engaged in politics. i realize some individuals have done so. but again, only in washington could i resign publicly over a matter of policy. >> you feel -- >> principle. >> you feel your resignation is pretty clear what you think. what more do you need to add is what you are saying? >> it's a page-and-a-half long.

it talks about our security, we are tied inextricably to our alliance, i don't know what more i can say about how we should treat allies and those who are adversaries. >> is america safer today because of this decision in syria? >> that's a complex question. i would say america is always safer when it builds the trust and a sense of reliability among our allies that we're reliable. >> when you have said if you feel like you need to speak out more, will you. you will know what that looks like. >> mm-hmm. >> that seems to think that you do have more to say you just don't believe this period of time is appropriate? >> well, chuck, i have a lot of faith in the american people. they know how to vote. they don't need military generals telling them that they think this political assessment is the one they should go with or the other one is, that sort

of thing. especially as corrosive as the political debate has grown in the country. this would be the worst time i think for military people to step out like that. the constitution is a hearty document. i a used to read it once a year and always found something new in it. >> i always carry one with me. all the time because you need it. >> i had a pocket version myself. i didn't carry it a lot of time. i carried it a lot of days. >> i need it more often these days. >> we all need it today. >> i also asked general mattis if president trump ever asked if he asked him to meet with rudy guiliani. he said vo: an important message from medicare. spokesman: fraudsters - they're out to get your medicare number so they can bill fake aims in your good name. don't give them that chance. fraudster: just calling to confirm your medicare number. do you have your card available? spokesman: for example, if a caller says they're from medicare, watch out. it's probably a scam. don't give out your card number.

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welcome back panelists here democratic pollster cornell belcher, peggy noonan, ashley barker and michael schmidt, correspondent for the "new york times," had that big scoop over the weekend on rudy guiliani welcome to all of you. before i get to turkey, specifically, peggy, jim mattis, what do you make of what he said and he didn't say and what he was trying to imply? >> oh, solid american opposed to what he thinks as a foreign policy blunder being made by tho what he thinks as a foreign cy d administration in northern syria. i think he was frank about one of his central concerns which is how the allies and friends of the united states view this decision to abandon people who have long been our friend what did he not say? i think it was pretty clear he did not want to get into his not experiences of and observations of the president he served as secretary of defense, one

wonders if he will ever decide it would be a good time to speak in a very candid way or if he feels constrained perhaps by his position and the possibility of doing any damage i'm not sure how he's thinking >> a marine is a marine. i think he views himself as being a marine first, not a no. political warrior. >> as always i thought the interview was brilliant. a lot of things he said but didn't say, you know right out in front one of those things that came through for me was we are weaker now because of these actions right. he didn't say it this is basically cut and run. america is cutting and running from an ally who fought for us and ultimately, that's not going to make us in the long run stronger that's going to make us weaker >> ashley, look, the republican criticism of this decision, liz cheney, impossible to understand.

marco rubio, grave mistake, pull my name off the i support donald trump list that was this morning. this morning we have reality okay, they've iticized the decision now what >> that's why you've seen so okay, they've much concern of because of what was reported this morning. i have to sort of reiterate how stunning it is to have republicans break with this president on anything. so to have them come out and give that degree of criticism means there is deep, deep alarm under the surface. they never, ever, break with him. what's next? i don't know there is talk of bipartisan sanctions -- >> elliot engel talked about that. >> they could have a veto-proof majority there is that. at a certain point what the president responds to most is his base so if he thinks his base is going to move on or he's going to lose them, that is the thing where you see them take a stance and retreat back that's what he will be looking for, he will be looking for the

polls, his base, the response at his rallies more than what he will be looking at what leader mcconnell says, frankly. >> what group of people are most important to donald trump right now? the senate republicans >> you think that's a big deal >> why do you ask them to carry more for you those are the people that stand between trump and the end of impeachment. that's it. there is no more mueller nothing else you know what the house democrats are going to do. so why ask more of them in this situation? >> i can tell you also their -- i think it is legitimate to be asking, why did this happen? how did this happen? a phone call with turkey's leader erdogan >> peggy, it's happened twice now. it was right after an erdogan phone call, both times the first time he announced, i asked general mattis what is it about erdogan? he goes, that's politics

i'm not going to get into that you will see that in the extended play version. erdogan clearly has the playbook in how to encourage the president to his point of view. >> yeah, it looks to me, i don't know enough to say this, but one has the suspicion the president was rolled i'm sorry, but the president of turkey wants something, he says, can i have this? and the president of the united states says, sure. and there are repercussions and implications on this decision that were perhaps not imagined >> i'm going to put up something susan glasser wrote.ere perhapsd >> i'm just here to amuse kornell. >> i think that is your job this morning. let me put up what susan glasser wrote. it merges these two issues of impeachment and the serious situation. at this particular moment, the republican fury at the president over the decision seems like an almost imcomprehensible act of hypocrisy. how is it different from trump's threaten abandonment and apparent blackmailing of

them for personal political reasons. ashley. >> they are and they aren't different. çóabandon. what, you know, the images you saw today you have militia executing people on the side of the road but what we saw with ukraine with the president asking for a favor, asking for a foreign government to potentially intervene and dig up dirt on arrival. that's coming on the heels of we know that russia meddled in the 2016 elections with the goal of helping the president and assessment of his intelligence community he doesn't always accept >> that is also incredibly of helping the president and assessment of destabilizing in a basically open invitation for any foreign country to meddle in our elections. you have the president coming out calling on them on russia, ukraine and china. they can see there is no repercussions and the mere fact is destabilizing to democratic institutions >> michael schmidt, the one republican i can think would link these two is mitt romney on the senate side it is not going to be a surprise to me if more start publicly linking this type of policy.

sort of a rogue foreign policy.f >> that's the other thing of the call with erdogan that just doesn't make sense it's that exact same issue at the root of the ukraine problem. and that is a call with a foreign leader in which things are discussed that maybe don't line up with the country's feeling about our foreign policy, things that you know secret deals, you know, trying to work this system. so amid an investigation, an impeachment investigation into that issue on ukraine, you go ahead and you do a deal with turkey. >> oh, by the way, there is a link rudy guiliani. rudy guiliani has a client that erdogan is really interested in, who is a turkish gold trader in turkey never mind ukraine the irony that rudy ties these two phone calls in some way? >> i spent a lot of this week trying to understand rudy guiliani's client. it's hard to get your head around i struggled.

at the root of it is this problem. you can't have the president's lawyer out there doing business with foreign countries there is just a reason why you don't mix those two things together >> i feel we have to pass a law to prevent this? >> if the president needed investigators, he's in charge of the executive branch he has an fbi. he has a cia why did he need rudy guiliani to do it? >> it's called corruption. >> that's the question of why did he need rudy guiliani is probably going to be at the heart of the impeachment inquiry. >> it's called corruption. >> impeachment inquiry when we come back, the growing support for impeachment. who is for it? who is not

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most people have moved closer to supporting impeachment. not republicans. 30% of all adults polled believe there is enough to remove him from office. 31% want an inquiry, totaling a majority wanting some form of investigation. 39% say there is not enough evidence to start the inquiry. it's not too surprising, republicans are the outliers with more than three-quarters of the republicans saying there is not enough everyday to start a formal inquiry. but there are different types of republicans that we noticed in our poll. among so-called trump republican, people that support trump before they're a republican. 91% of them say there is not enough evidence to even investigate. among folks that say they're a republican before they're a trump supporter, which is 40% of the party, only 58% say there is not enough evidence. see, a 33 point gap. these quote party republican, they're kind of like the senate republicans. this is the group you have to

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♪ back now with end game and some sunday morning news. we're going to assume it was almost designed for all of us to consume. that is hunter biden actually hunter biden's lawyer put out a fairly lengthy statement of what is going to be commitments about how he would conduct business and he resigns from the chinese hedge fund already claiming that he hasn't made any money out of that yet. here's what the lawyer says. hunter makes the following commitment, under a biden administration, hunter will

readily comply with any and all guidelines, or standards a president biden may issue to address purported conflicts of interest, or the appearance of such conflicts. he will not work on behalf of foreign-owned companies. it's interesting for a campaign that said they weren't going to addressing anything hunter biden they have now decided to address it. >> well, it's interesting because they've pushed -- the trumps have pushed hunter biden out front in this conversation. as you sa you with senator rand paul. let's muddy up the watt. i'm a political hack. this is what i do for my living. i know when you can't win an argument, muddy the waters. that's what you have going on right now. it's a shame that hunter biden is stepping down when no one in the trump world steps down. no one breaks ties from their business interests. in fact, he's got liss lawyer

going around representing america and his business interests. it's a terrible double standards. >> responding to trump. i know you want to jump in. i want folks to see how vice president biden earlier directly addressed the president's attacks on him. >> folks, he's targeted me and my family with lie, distortion and smears. and his lying is matched only by his manifest incompetence. >> peggy, it is that the biden campaign has been trying to find that balance between trying to mit ga it the damage that they think trump's doing at the same time not letting trump dictate the message. but trump's been dictating the message. >> yes. trump is the president he has that megaphone. i think joe biden for the past few weeks has been on the back of his heels over this issue, not sure how to address it, not sure precise will i what to defend and what to conceive. i have to tell you kornell, i

disagree with you a little bit i don't think this is merely a muddy the waters story. this is a story that at least half the american people understand the hunter biden story as a story of the swamp. the elite, buddy-buddy-ism. using your family influence to do well in life. the american people don't like it and they have never liked it. >> so how did it come from the trump, though? it's sort of an awkward cart coming from the trumps? you say that with a cheshire cat smile. >> with that cheshire cat smile, i'm so relieved it was. that's an interesting question is how i'd respond to your question. >> it's symmetrical warfare. it's not necessarily fair. but it's a reality in it is the fact that the president whose children are still working abroad and have dealings abroad even when they said they wouldn't feels perfectly fine and one of his greatest political talents is his shamelessness. he feels perfectly fine to have

that reality and make the case against hunter biden. we all know there is no evidence of wrong doing on the part of the bidens. that's important. that goes to muddying the water. it also goes to peggy's point. sit swampy? absolutely. when you talk to the people that showed up and came out and voted for trump. they felt they were playing by one set of rules and the people in washington are playing b another. >> you know, michal kempny, though, there was somebody who was a pretty big trump supporter who did a lot of work for him, shared with me, the whole point of trump was to get rid of the political dynasties. that's why i was into him. he got rid of the bushes and i didn't vote for him to replace a dynasty. >> we are three years into the presidency, two years running. his enemies or his opponents are still struggling to figure this out. they still can't figure out how to run the play against him. biden sort of going back and forth here. they've known about these issues for at least two years that were

going to come up about his son. they knew he was running for president here they are in the middle of a primary and they still didn't know what to do. no one's figured it out. >> it's overwhelming. >> that itself the problem. usually in politics you have one or two really good negativings, you pound those over and over. you have a dozen a day i that half of this stuff the president does in a week. if clinton did it or bush did it or if obama did it, it would ruin them. >> but if biden can't figure it out now, he's going to do it for another year. >> we don't have to figure it out. in a quinnipiac poll he's at 40%, close to that same number of 39%. >> we're not going to show them now, biden's numbers haven't changed. >> xiang xianged. >> what a great panel. you are terrific. thank you for watching. i appreciate that we'll be back next week. i promise. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

hopefully the nats are going to the world series. [ music playing ]

president trump has ordered all u.s. troops out of northern syria as conditions deteriorate, but could our military be caught in the middle? a key witness is set to testify in the impeachment inquiry today as the president's former russian aide is expected to spill all on rudy giuliani's efforts to pursue a shadow policy on ukraine. outrage in texas after a police officer shoots and kills a woman in her own home. the officer was called to check on her, and now family wants answers. rescue crews are still searching for a missing worker in new orleans after the collapse at a hard rock cafe construction site where two died and 30 were