. this sunday damming testimony for president trump. >> was there a quid pro quo with regard to the requested white house call in the white house %÷ the answer is yes. >> ambassador gordon sondland says top trump administration officials)é knew. >> everyone was in the loop. >> and that the word came from the top. >> so we followed the president's orders. >> also pushed back to the republican claims of ukrainian election interference. >> this is a fictional novelty that is being person trade and propagated by the russian services themselves. >> as the parties fight over what the president did. >> one ukrainian received the

aid and two, there was no investigation into the bidens. >> there defense is they released the aid, yes, after he got caught. >> where does the impeachment go from here? house committee chairman democrat adam schiff and republican senator roger wicker of mississippi. plus the infamous steele dossier. >> steele dossier. >> christopher steelee. >> i'll talk to the men that hired steele about the dossier and fallout. >> i have more people supporting me in the black community that have announced for me because they know me. >> how sturd just joe biden's african-american support? joining me for analysis are nbc correspondent nealkatyar.@m eliana johíé]z and michael eric

dysoné. t george town professo. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington. the longest running show inr / television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning. = dee all the evidence they need. 12 witness in two weeksá a picture of the president and his]ie administration allies working behind the scenes against the nation's interests to benefit the president>g politically. we heard president trump pressured zelensky to investigate his political enemies. ukraine officials began to ask questions where the aid was as early as that july phone call that president trump doesn't give a quote blank about ukraine, only about the bk9h investigations. most impo"f,di1ñ we heard from n insider who flipped that there was yes a quid pro officials were following president trump's orders and that the top echelon of the trump administration was all in the loop.

it's a political one, with few signs, republicans fought back nearly, arguing the testimony was fiercely inferred or unreliable and the witnesses were more discredited than damming. democrats fist face an uncompromising calendar, do they face accusations they're more interests in dm5q)q feel's business or do they rest their case and risk loo losing the chance to hear from possible key witnesses, like mike pompeo,$0ñ nick mulvaney and make pence who might change public opinion. @s$er words, after all we have absorbed these last two weeks, what now? >> the president has used his office for his own personal gain. >> for two weeks a dozen current and former official versus laid out a clear case testifying that president trump used the promise of a white house meeting and a freeze on hundreds of millions of dollars of military aid to pressure ukraine's new president to announce an investigation into a 2020 opponent joe biden

and biden's son. running the shadow foreign policy through the president's personal attorney rudy guiliani. >> mr. guiliani demanded that ukraine make a public statement announcing the investigations. mr. guiliani was expressing the desires of the president of the united states. >> president trump making that quid pro quo explicit in a july 25th phone call with ukraine's president zelensky. >> i was concerned by the call. it is improper for the president of the united states demand a foreperson government investigate a foreign citizen and political opponent. >> that same day. >> the ukrainian embassy stap staff askedj9cç what is going o with ukrainian security assistance. >> a day later, the president was on the phone with u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland. >> you heard president trump ask ambassador sondland is he going to do the investigation? >> yes, sir. >> what was ambassador sondland's response? >> he said, oh yeah, he's going to do it.

he'll do anything you ask. >> he was being involved in a domestic political errand and we were being involved in national security foreign policy and those two things had judy verged. >> mr. trump also pressed zelensky to look into a conspiracy theory shifting blame for 2016 election interference under yosu÷ukraine a disinformation campaign that russia had person rated for years. >> you know the fbi's never got an yxsserver. that's a big part of that thing. why did they give it to the ukrainians? >> are you sure it went to the ukrainians? >> that's what they say it is. >> now house democrats are moving forward on an impeachment 0+!ì(lc% been reserveing out to republicans ahead of a senate trial. ñ plaik makers for hundreds at the white house. >> a few weeks / republicans appeared divide about whether to target hunter

biden. >> i've tried to resisto the senate into aasç÷circus. i don't want to go after joe and hunter biden because people are mad trump is not getting a fair deal in the house. >> now they are asking for documents and more. >> the vice president's son was serving on a board that was run by the dirtiest guy in the ukraine. >> i am disappointed. quite frankly, i'm angered by the fact. he knows me, he knows my son. he knows there is nothing to this. >> joining me is the& the housemao intelligence comme congressman adam chicago welcome >> you said you can continue to investigate while also compiling your report. up, how -- what does that look like and is that more for show or is there a -- do you have some evidence of more investigation is going to happeg next weey wm >> certainly not for show. there's more work to be done. but at the same time we've already accumulated quite

overwhelming evidence that the president once again sought foreign interference in an election conditioned official ! to do. >> you have one now, leave -- ñ lev parnas, he was withíú rudy guiliani onó a finance scheme being now. he says he has some things to talk to congress about. are you going to hear from a;f=ç

>> ç&>ñwell, we have already suspended him for documents6? we're in discussions with the southern district of new york. we are pursuing it.;?ñhñ at the same time, we'd like to know what the document versus to say beforey about witnesses. this is why we've suspend pompeo for documents and others for documents as we saw during the hearings that we had. those documents have been awfully important toff1id knowie right questions to ask. >> you got some documents, a foya request by an outside group ended up getting some ' that raise more questions, that tie guilianiing phone calls between rouge rouge and the secretary of state and confirm and you've gotten those articles that guiliani was spreading around from the state department's ig. so there's more document more evidence. ç you have all these open lead. it just seems odd that you're strong. look at all these open leads, the energy deal. >> it's important to know we're not stopping. it's important to know this,

chuck, you'd acknowledge this i find thisahz remarkable. the evidence is already overwhelming. the everyday is already overwhelming. >> but you are not in a courtroom. you know that. you have a political bar you have to meet. >> that's true. the fact that republicans may be derelict in their responsibility doesn't relieve us of our obligation to do our constitutional duty and we feel an urgency about that so even as we compile this report we submit everyday to the judiciary committee, we will contv but we are not going to let the administration stonewalling us stop us and if people are acknowledgeing and i think they're quite right that the evidence is overwhelming, then you have to ask, what more would becfq republicans, indeed, is there anything that could move republicans? >> let me hope they will do their duty. >> pled me give one example. it's one that a lot of republicans are hanging their hat on, if there is one piece of

everyday have you not been able to surface, it is this idea that the president, when did he order thatpk&ñ@ aid, itself, was to b withheld as a quid pro quo, you only have gordon it was a meeting and he assumed it. you don't have the.usñ -- this how they're hanging their hat on. >> i realize. >> you can say it is a thin read, but it is a read. >> let's look at this, the first thing they hung their hat 7dñon there is no evidence of quid pro quo. there was overwhelming everyday of quid pro quo. some are hanging their hatb)v3 1 what's your presence that the president withheld the military aid, the owík  chief of admitted they withheld the aid to get this information, this crazy dnc server investigation, which is a part of a russia disinformation campaign. the president's own chief of staff. i mean, they seem to be saying, unless donald trump writes out, i bribed ukraine, the evidence will be insufficient. what every juror is told and i

don't think that the senate is different than a jury here, at least it shouldn't be, is they don't leave their common sense at the pdnldoor. there was no plus ar plausible -- plausible information but one that the presidentgy wanted ukraine to do his dirty work. >> are you going to be the house manageer? >> that's up to the speaker. >> would you like to be one of the prosecutors? >> i don't want to get ahead of where we are. which is we haven't brought upy articles, made a decision about articles. >> is that possible that articles are not filed this year? >> i don't want to pre-judge the outcome here. i do think the evidence, the facts of what the president did are not contested. they're harmly not contested. that's the remarkable thing.zk so the question is knowing the president sought foreign0.b3ñ interference in an election. knowing it conditioned political acts that get political favors, are we prepared to say that's okay. that consistent with the duties of the office and i will say this, members are going to have to think hard about two undezu.

one, with the knowledge that if we do nothing, it is very likely the president will do this again, but second, are republicans prepared to say that they will allow this president and any future president to simply stonewall the congress and refuse to provide everyday. if they do, itjw! impeachment clause is anullity, more than that, it means our oversight is anullity. >> i know where you are with the whisingy1un blower and the leaft you don't need to hear from the whistle blower before. you did pledge the intelligence committee would hear from the whistle blower in some form or another? >> we had a deep interest in having them testify. two things happened. one we were able to prove it with witnesses that had first hand information and second the president and his allies whistleblower's life in danger. the president instead the whistleblower and other should be treated as a traitor and a spy and we ought to use the

penalty and that's the death penalty so here's the thing, chuck, we don't need the whistlñ broeer's second-hand -- blower's secondhand evidence. it would gratify the president's desire for retribution. >> that is not a good enough will be reason to bring in the whistleblower. >> on the senate trial, one of the reasons you are not going to fight in the courts for bolt isn't you believe there is this theory on a talking points memo, a liberal organization, josh marshall. there is a legal theory running around that it's a get the chieftuous tis to compel john bolton to testify at a senate trial than it would be waiting around to get him to congress. do you buy into that? >> i think that may very well be true. now, people like john bolton, whose deputies had the courage to come in and testify, are going to have to answer oneñ 'ñ why they saved what they knew for a book rather than tell the country when the country needed to know.p ñt&c% but i do think that when it comes to documents and

witnesses, that if it comes to a trial and again we're getting far down the road here, that the chief justicerbbwñ will have to a decision on request for witnesses and documents. and so i don't envy thatí >> he may say that you should be a witness. they may want to call you. are you ready? >> look,uiúe if the senate wan call ne as a witness, then they pretty much made the decision not to take this process seriously. i'm not-ç fact witness. i was a chairman of one of the committees doing an investigation. i'm not in the shoes of a special counsel, i don't work for the justice department. all i can relate is what the witnesses in the open hearings and that's no reason to call me as a witness. >> adam schiff i will leave it there. right now no, public hearings scheduled for any time in the rest of this year. >> we don't foreclose the possibility of others. >> adam schiff, democrat from california. thank you for coming on sharing

your views. >> thank you. joining me now is republican senate roger wicker, he commissions the securityvp"bx a commission in university.u> thank you. glad to be here. >> i want to start two a report erltier this week it has to do with supposedly an intelligent briefing senators have received. first let me play what fiona hill said about russia and his week. take a liss zpln right now, russia security service and their proxies are repeating their interference in the 2020 election. we are running out of time to stop them. in the course of this >> can you confirm you guys have been given gel jens +o!ez-$ >> some member versus. i have not. i'm not at all surprised that russia is gearing up and also

surprised she's correct that russia tried to interfere in 2016. also, ukrainians, themselves, tried to interfere also. chuck -- >> there is a big difference between the two. look, i understand there is individual ukrainians that were upset that candidate donald trump wanted crimea to stay with russia s. that the same as the russian government and putin >> i'm concerned about both. i'm concerned about both. let me say this, chuck. i just have to start. i totally disagree we your lead-in to this whole show today. i think that the washington punditry is somewhat in a bubble on this. i think the democrats had a bad week last week. >> why is that? >> okay. for one thing, the polls are turning in the president's favor, you got the marquette poll in wisconsin, which is the gold standard of wisconsin polls. you got the emerson poll, which is a nationwide poll, which actually shows trump's

favorability going up. and i just think the people out there don't think this investigation is fair. they know that only democrat witnesses werezbfóñ allowed to called. none of the witnesses. >> some of them were in deep calls. there were some witnesses. >> as a matter of fact, here's what happened. there were three witnesses that democrats asked for and republicans asked for. those three witnesses. >> fair enough. >> got called. none of the witness that were exclusively called by the republicans were asked and you know you asked a question about the whistleblower and so chairman schiff has decided that it wouldn't be beneficial to his case. well, it might be beneficial if some of the republicans were allowed to cross examination this person. so, it's totally inadequate. >> i understand you disagree with my premise. let me put up what peggy noonan

said. she's no?q  liberal. here's her take on this impeachment process. as to impeachment, itself, the case has been so made. who exactly will be the president's witnesses? those who testified that he didn't do what he appears to have done and would never do it. respond to peggy noonan. >> i totally disagree we peggy on that and hofk she writes a column every week in the "wall street journal" and it's not the first time i've disagreed. >> fair enough. >> but you know, again, let me go back to what the public is seeing. i do thinkop$árq public is kinf tuning out, kind of bored with this. >> i thinksfq argument and a legal:8vwç argum. let's set aside thfvh politica argument. mge you at all troubledzw by th behavior of the president, rudy guiliani, what was done here, the fact that he mentioned bidens, never talked about corruption on the phone call? any of this stuff trouble you? >> i think the transcript, i

read it last night in preparation for this. i think it was legitimately about corruption in ukraine like president biden. >> let me pause there, here's what the president said, he wanted to see president zelensky do in response to his phone call. this is the president's own word. >> what is your reaction to [ inaudible ] zelensky with the bidens after the phone call? >> well, i would think that if they were honest about it, they'd start a major investigation into the bidens. >> more confirmation he was asking about the bidens. senator. he didn't mention corruption. >> i heard what the president said.a2rs here's what zelensky said. zelensky said he was under no pressure to do anything. he didn't know the aid held up. >> you don't think he feels pressure in public in fairness? do you think that would be a good of him if hes a agreed with the president's take? >> i think he's telling the wj>p

truth. if you are going to try to remove the president of the united states from office, you need concrete evidence and the other person on the part of this so-called quid pro quo denies that there was a quid pro quo. and also let me i have toer ject this, everything that you1a f was so compelling in your leadup was guesswork, was qh. there was no direct evidence of pressure on the ukrainian government to do a certain act in order for the aid to go forward. and i just really don't see what you and your producers see in the leadup there. i think it was a bad week. i think the american people are moving away from the democratic position. >> let me ask you this. an exc

your suppozt impeachment and let me play that. >> the rule of law means that the commander-in-chief of our armed force could not be held to a lower standard than are his subordinates. the rule of law is more important than the tenure in office of any elected official. >> if you see proof in the senate trial that this president of the united states violated the rule of law, would that be enough for you? >> i haven't -- i am nowhere close to seeing that proof. let me say this, we learned some political lessons in the impeachment of bill clinton. but give us this. there were democrats who voted for impeachment also in the house of representatives. and a judge in arkansas had found, as a matter of fact, that president bill clinton committed perjury, a felony in almost every state. so the evidence was pretty overwhelming not to mention

taking advantage of a young employee. >> you sponsor a lot of military bases, military constituentles. i'm curious. we may have a large debate abouo this. who should decide who is a seal? the president of the united states or fellow seals? are you probably aware of the controversy involving this chief gallagher here. should the president short circuit this or not? would you like the seals to make this decision? >> i think the president as commander-in-chief can make this decision. >> he can legally make it. should he? >> i feel very comfortable with him making it. i feel very comfortable with what he's done on the other two cases. so i'm more than there. >> okay. no, just asking. don't apologize to me. senator rogering wither, republican, thanks for coming on, sharing your views, i appreciate

when i got back from my third deployment in iraq i realized i wanted to study the stars, i want to be a physicist. i had a tenth grade level of education. i find youtube videos on calculus, differential equations, statistics, algebra, trigonometry. i'm now working as a scientist. i can't see a stopping point in me ever doing that. and i like to question your i'm yoevery move.n law. like this left turn. it's the next one. you always drive this slow? how did you make someone i love? that must be why you're always so late. i do not speed. and that's saving me cash with drivewise.

my son, he did say that you were the safe option. and that's the nicest thing you ever said to me. so get allstate. stop bossing. where good drivers save 40% for avoiding mayhem, like me. this is my son's favorite color, you should try it. [mayhem] you always drive like an old lady? [tina] you're an old lady. i'm a regular in my neighborhood. i'm a regular at my local coffee shop and my local barber shop. when you shop small you help support your community - from after school programs to the arts! so become a regular, more regularly. because for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays in the community. join me and american express on small business saturday, november 30th, and see how shopping small adds up. i'm a verizon engineer, and i'm part of the team building the most powerful 5g experience for america. it's 5g ultra wideband-- --for massive capacity-- --and ultra-fast speeds. almost 2 gigs here in minneapolis. that's 25 times faster than today's network in new york city.

so people from midtown manhattan-- --to downtown denver-- --can experience what our 5g can deliver. (woman) and if verizon 5g can deliver performance like this in these places... it's pretty crazy. ...just imagine what it can do for you. ♪ back now with a panel. it's going to be an exciting one. neat katyal, author of a new book#ñ he makes the case to impeach donald trump. impeach, the case against donald trump. georgetown professor michael eric dyson. ileana johnson, katy tur correspondent and host of ]7rjj live and former governor of north [:rcarolina, pat mccorey.

i almost want to throw the puck out here. neal, we're having you for one block here. i will start with a quote, your the essential case you're making we call it the monopoly quote.%d asking us to wait until the election to remove president trump from office is likeh" askg to resolve a dispute based on who wins a game of monopoly when the very crime you are accused of is cheating atrxu monopoly. i heard adam schiff starts to try to make that case better. >> that has not been the lead way the democrats have made their case. has thatw= been a mistake? >> i don't think it's been a mistake. i think there is a lot of complexity around the whole ) this and the like. now is the time to simplify it. that's what:ánñ the book is abo. it's a definitive guide why the president needs impeached. it begins what is impeachment about? in "6ñ1787, it was put in there. founders put it in for a simple reason, i said we are worried about a president who self

deals, cheats and gets help from a foreign government, fast forward 200 years, boy, that's exactly where we are. >> pat mlaaeoccorey, are you on side of they haven't made their legal architect or political argument? ÷ opinions on the jury of the people or the jury of the senate. >> so you believe it's only a political@@áúcase? work on immigration, work on healthcare. work on foreign policy, work on the deficit. they've heard everything and you can't go nowb

it wasn't a quid pro kwochlt you have presume the ukraine got the aid, there was no quid pro quo and there was no investigation into the bidens. >> and katy tur this teams to be among the safest harbors that republicans hang their head on lee stefanik said in that last comment. at that's the argument the democrats are making. 3 linie and saying this is a suspicious time line. oh, if you try toy rob7+p bank,

you did something wrong, you have to almost suspend disbelief in order to make the argument that the president wasn't involveddpysy in anyway or that ukrainians didn't know about this when witness after witness testified over and over again testified overe working at the direction ofg3 rudy guiliani o they had conversations w);kqát president or were talking to the ukrainians and the ukrainians felt pressure or the president wanted these investigations done. also the president, himself, said it. u)v >> guys, it feels, guys, the two sides are talkingñwy÷g past eac other. republicans are making a political argument. democrats are)ce making a legal argument and they're going, how do you, the other side, not see what we see? @&h(lc% jz they're choosing to emphasize different things. republicans areemqqyi÷ñ trying -- the president tried to do something but it never happened. the democrats are saying you

know there was a quid pro quo or even if you tried it was still very bad. ultimately, it's a politicalñf) question. i think this was a gamble for democrats and i think what the senator tried to say and maybe didn't do political question. americans tend not to care a whole lot about foreign policy. i think it was risky for democrats to pursue impeachment on a question of foreign policy. over the past week alone support for impeachment amongr]'y independentings has dropped 7 points -- independents has dropped 7 points in a political poll i'm referring to. independents ranked impeachment lowest among things they care about below the deficit í@vsez trump care and trump's border wall. so if pursuing it, it was ricky. it's looking like a losing betìc at this point in that it drops an enormous amount during the public hearings. >> well, you know at least this raised our iq when it comes to latin, quid pro quo. i don't know if it's quid pro quo, it is arguing in a circle. and so you do begin with the pre

is up situation that you want to con-- supposition. >> that you want to confirm and see it through youru own prism. well, my god, there are some things as incommenceable vocabularys, you say one thing, i'm saying one thing, never the twain hal meet. the senate is the elect tractor-trailer. he lost the popular vote and won the senatorial college. now we have incontrovertible evidence that this man has committed a huge wrong,,q]z bri and whatever else has been reasonably put forth and been supported byfs law you know hearsay evidence and second-hand everyday, all of those things are exceptions and asterisks that are allowed when have you an overwhelming case. here's the thing, no matter what donald trump does, he admitted from the very beginning. he said, if i go out here in the middle of the street and kill somebody, then america will stand with me.

his base has8 ! right. i think the unfortunate loser here is the american public. but i think the democrats must not give in and capitulate and if we engage if theater here, if it's not their ter, it is > what's a senate trial? democrats might not win the verdict they want in the senate trial. but can their trial be effective? >> absolutely. so, first of all, i totally disagree that the jurors are baked and we know what's going ohappen. as a lawyer. as a lawyer,tñoáu don't count votes until it's over. >> that vote occurs in the senate. it's a long time from now. we are at chapter 1. chapter 2>a5@ is that senate tr. how does it look, chuck? i think it's a lot of evidence we're not able to see, testimony of bolton and other people. >> you think we will see? the chief justice that suddenly changes a a lot of dynamic. >> absolutely so we're at the very start of this. we're not at the end and ia4zz

not think this is about polls. this is about our constitution and what our duties are and to get the truth out about what this president did. >> we heard this same argument during the mueller, wait until the next argument. it's not going to happen. >> i will say this, i think what we learn here, is that if both sides are convinced that their angle of the argument, i think you put it well, a winning hand. we shall see when we come back. the men behind the man behind the infamous may 1 of '75... the magic moment. congress really democratized wall street... i wanted to have a firm that wanted to get everybody in. because people couldn't access wall street. we wanted to be agents of change. for the better. ♪

when i lost my sight, my biggest fear was losing my independence. mmm... good. so i've spent my life developing technology to help the visually impaired. we are so good. we built a guide that uses ibm watson... to help the blind. it is already working in cities like tokyo. my dream is to help millions more people like me. (kermit) fozzie! you're on my tv! in citikermit! tokyo. (fozzie) and you're on my tv! (dr. teeth) and i'm on both your tvs. (miss piggy) and of course, moi is on tv. (statler & waldorf) nobody cares! hahaha! (dr. teeth) woah woah woah. how are we all on each other's tvs? (animal) me on tv! (fozzie) oh i believe i have the answer. you see... (miss piggy) the thing on the tv is a portal tv and it lets you video call... (all) on your tv! (dr. teeth) ah! (animal) me on tv! hahahaha! (fozzie vo) portal. from facebook.

welcome back. few things are cited than the so-called steele dossier, the

author christopher steelee and fusion gps were mentioned 32 times by house republicans the dossier said russia had dirt on mr. trump that could be used to black mail him. the clinton campaign paid fusion gps and republicans argued the dos yes and memos means that democrats were working to smear mr. trump. now they wrote a book. crime and progress inside the feele dossier and the fusion of donald trump and the founders of the company join me now. gentleman. >> good morning. >> welcome to "meet the press." >> nice to be here. >> peter, why did you feel the need to write this book? and i say this because it also means revealing a lot of secrets. >> thanks for having us on. we wrote the book to tell the real story of the steele dossier, which is arguably you'd agree the most important document in recent political history. you know, it's important to remember, we started this work on donald trump in the fall of

2015,gujñ looking for republicao look at the business dealings of donald trump and his business records. >> republican donor and another republican organization that was looking for background information for what, reporting? opposition research? >> that's correct. they were looking for -- look, they were trying to stress test his suitability for president. i don't know if they were pro trump, anti-trump. that's to be decide. but you know, it started out as an ordinary business investigation. it wasn't really about russia. as time went on we realized he had branched out his business empire around the world.h9lñ ñ looking at other countries, it wasn't just russia. this is all recounted in great detail in the book.$gf it was a fairly typical investigation for the first seven months or so. but it eventually did lead us tp russia. but it doesn't make logical sense for it to be a democratic conspiracy that the first half of the republicans.

>> let me ask this about the steele dossier. some of the larger findings, some could argue have been proven true. trump is vulnerable to black mail. there was a clear cooperation between trump's team and russia. he knew indn# providing those t wikileaks. none of those allegation has been proven. do you still stand by them? >> first it's important to understand who christopher steelee is, a british officer who rose to run mi6 russia desk. this is someone of the most capable and knowledgeable experts on russia in thezax wor today and he, he spent a lot of time going through the dossier to sort out information from disinformation, credible facts from non-credible facts. >> let me ask this, though, you are one of the odder coincidences is the russia lawyer. vessel lit skyia. yous

book you did not know it at the1 time. but you even write in the book that, oh, now you are starting to wonder, were you sort of drawn in and worked in a way so if you might have been drawn in and workedh,! in a way, how do know christopher steele was? >> because chris is a true pro at this i'm an exjournalist. he spent his) area. this is his single focus of expertise, russia counterintelligen information. we talk about that at length in the book. we talk very candidly about you know let's be honest, we have to, there are certain things we wonder about. >> yeah. >> we'd like to learn more. >> like what? >> it's important to remember, by the way, pass is prologue. sitting here today at the end of 2019, does anyone doubt thatfñ5 donald trump would be capable of inciting or working with a foreign government to affect the political process in this zmunt that's exactly what the house is looking at right now. >> let me get you to respond to

fion na hill, here's what she said. >> dr. hymn, during your deposition i asked you was christopher steele's dossier a rabbit hole? do you remember the answer you gave? >> yes, i thought it was a rabbit hole. >> and you also said a couple pages later in the deposition or in the transcript that i have here of your deposition that you thought he got played. is that fair? >> that is fair, yes. >> fiona hill is an expert. chris. she's not a disinformation specialist. and so she is a russia specialist in general. she's=vfañ entitled to her opin. i know she knows chris and has worked with him for a long time. so, i'm not sure that that is very well understood that one remark. >> i was puzzled by her comment, i don't really know what the rabbit hole means in that context. i will say >bég you can't catch

rabbits without going down rabbit holes. you need to follow leads where they take you. we have full confidence in chris's ability to do that. >>í y her broader statements of ÷russians are doing. not just in our country but aroundb0 the world that match u exactly with our work. >>/6& one of the things people not realize is you are actively- doing an investigation of donald trump. explain what that is. >> we're not investigating donald trump. what we're doing is investigating russia's efforts to affect and disrupt western democracies. so that's france, britain, hungary, any number of countries. >> who isñ >> it's a non-profit. >> is this rob reiner thing he is a part of an independent consortium group. >> it's called a democracy and independent project. it's run by daniel jones which is obviously public record. he is the former staffer whoç° wrote the intelligence report on the torture program -- >> and what is going to happen

to these findings? is it going to be made public? are you turning it over to law enfoursment, for a political campaign? >> it'sh#'l for the non-profit decide. it depends on what the information is. we have tried. the charter is public education. in one form or ásg÷another, we attempting to educate the public about # undermine western democracies, not just in the united states. >> before i do, what kind of toll is this taking on you guys personally? i would assume quite a bit. you have beenúpgtargeting personally, harassed personally online. talk about it. >> it was very unpleasant for a long imtoo. we were forced by various covenants we had wi> rudy guiliani attacking you this week making claims.

and you confronted him. >> that's right. ç( wanted to put him on notice that we're just not going to let him deliberately lie about qéwu. let's be clear. he's not confused. he's deliberately lying. we're going to respond when people deliberately lie about it. especially when it's the president of the united states' lawyer. >> the book it is a fascinating read, no matter what you think of the steele dossier, if you doc talk about it, you should read about this book and startk talking about it again, when we come back, the democrat introducing even more value from fidelity. fidelity now has zero commissions for online u.s. equity trades and etfs. and fidelity also offers zero account fees for brokerage accounts, plus zero minimums to open an account. and only fidelity offers four zero expense ratio index funds directly to investors. with all of those zeros, there are zero reasons to invest anywhere else. fidelity. ♪ so maybe i'll win

♪ saved by zero ♪ so maybe i'll win and i recently had hi, ia heart attack. it changed my life. but i'm a survivor. after my heart attack, my doctor prescribed brilinta. it's for people who have been hospitalized for a heart attack. brilinta is taken with a low-dose aspirin. no more than 100 milligrams as it affects how well brilinta works. brilinta helps keep platelets from sticking together and forming a clot. in a clinical study, brilinta worked better than plavix. brilinta reduced the chance of having another heart attack... ...or dying from one. don't stop taking brilinta without talking to your doctor, since stopping it too soon increases your risk of clots in your stent, heart attack, stroke, and even death. brilinta may cause bruising or bleeding more easily, or serious, sometimes fatal bleeding. don't take brilinta if you have bleeding, like stomach ulcers, a history of bleeding in the brain, or severe liver problems. slow heart rhythm has been reported. tell your doctor about bleeding new or unexpected shortness of breath any planned surgery, and all medicines you take. if you recently had a heart attack, ask your doctor if brilinta is right for you. my heart is worth brilinta.

if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. . welcome back. day to download time. many of the democratic hopefuls use wednesday night's debate in atlanta, whose support so(x far has kept joe biden on top !(stv nationally. how sturdy is that support? we decided to dig into data from

our nbc news "wall street journal" polls conducted from all throughout this year, combined them into one big poll. biden ism9yñ a clear front runn africa, among black he does better. he's at 50% compared to 12% for elizabeth warren, 10 for bernie sanders and just 2% for pete buttigieg. some may chalk this up simply to biden may be serving as vice president as the first african men president. in fact, it may be because black voters look a lot like biden's another core constituency groups regardless of race. only 24% of black democrats called themself liberal, exit 20 point drop from other democrats, compared with 61% of african-american voters who self describe as moderate0s=r or conservative, 16 points higher than the restóy of the democrat party overall. and how about age? only 18% of the african-american primary vote isfm

i'm a verizon engineer, and i'm part of the team building the most powerful 5g experience for america. it's 5g ultra wideband-- --for massive capacity-- --and ultra-fast speeds. almost 2 gigs here in minneapolis. that's 25 times faster than today's network in new york city. so people from midtown manhattan-- --to downtown denver-- --can experience what our 5g can deliver. (woman) and if verizon 5g can deliver performance like this in these places... it's pretty crazy.

...just imagine what it can do for you. ♪ (people talking) for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th. he borrowed billions donald trump failed as a businessman. and left a trail of bankruptcy and broken promises. he hasn't changed. i started a tiny investment business, and over 27 years, grew it successfully to 36 billion dollars. i'm tom steyer and i approve this message. i'm running for president because unlike other candidates, i can go head to head with donald trump on the economy, and expose him fo what he is: a fraud and a failure. a couple years ago i got laid off. i did not know what i was going to do. and then a light bulb went off. i had a sewing machine that was still in the box.

i pulled up youtube. i kept watching videos over and over, i finally got to the point where i could make a stitch. and that's how knotzland was born. we make handmade bowties out of repurposed fabrics. because of youtube i'm an entrepreneur. it's been a crazy journey. because of youtube i'm an entrepreneur. (people talking) for every dollar you spend at a small business, an average of 67 cents stays local. shop small and watch it add up. small business saturday by american express is november 30th.

. back now with end game. the issue of african-american

support for pete buttigieg seem to be a theme of the debate on wednesday night except it seemed as if all the candidates didn't know how to talk about it other than buttigieg. here's buttigieg and kamela harris back-to-back here on this issue of buttigieg's arguably inability so far to woo african-american voters. >> while i do not have the experience of ever having been discriminated against because of the color of my skin, i do have the experience of sometimes feeling like a stranger in my own country. >> so we're going to now say my pain is worse than your pain? these are all injustices. but to start comparing one group's pain to the other is misguided. >> what was interesting about kamela harris's criticism there post-debate is she had an opportunity to say that right directly back at pete buttigieg and she backed off. >> yeah. >> when he gave his answer and there was mor)$b to it, i thinkt some point he threw out the

caveat, i know, i'm not going to compare struggles, but -- and she decided not to do it, but of. what does that tell you? >> well, first of all, she's reenforcing al; point many peop can make. you can't engage in an oppression jer by, the jews, the blacks, the gays, if you live if kentucky, it's bad so what's interesting is that she also had to deal with the gauntlet being thrown down is black people are more gay, more homophobic, now i think if i come at him, it reenforces black people being more homophobic. i think it's unfortunate. james brolen said the problem many had in the '60s is that they were jews, it's they were white. it's not that pete buttigieg is gay his politics have been whitewashed they have undermained his capacity to forge a connection with the african-american people. that's not to say there is

homophobia in black communities as in every community. to single out black people is especially ironic. in one sense, the reason black people are sensitive to homosexuality is their heterosexuality has been queered. when you get your testicles look at on an auction block, that ain't normal. now we are hyper sensitive to that realm. >> quick, can pete buttigieg become the nominee? >> it's not too big of a problem. he is willing to be self critical and acknowledge most black people are conservative morally and conservative socially even if not politically. if many republicans hadn't been5 caught in a quagmire of bigotry, they could exploit the inherent >> you know what's kind of interesting also is that joe biden when he was vice president was the one who converted barack obama in the supporting gay marriage, which he didn't

support in his second term when he was rung for re-election. >> at left he outed him. >> he outed obama. >> and his supporter. >> supporter. yeah. >> so it's kind-of-a triangle here we have in the democratic party. the only other thing you can't outcool barack bam. that's what democrats are lacking, anyone that had command of the stage like barack obama did. i was on the campaign trail against barack obama. he's cool. personal in the african-american community. kamela harris is trying to be cool. she can't, it doesn't happen. >> so what's interesting is that i think the black response to kamela and corey tremendous individuals with extraordinary talent is a delayed response of disappointment invbí2ñ barack o that black people cannot explicitly articulate. they love obama the man, politically, they see there were problematic situations and they want their cake and eat it too. >> my question for the democratic party is who is the

candidate that both sides at the end of the day, both sides of the democratic party, progressives, and/or moderates, conservatives and liberals can agree on in the general election? is that going to be somebody like pete buttigieg? is biden going to inspire thef progressive base? the supporters of donald trump move over to biden? is that a good bet in 2016? you will talk about who can present a diverse coalition and, yes, biden certainly has the black vote locked down, at least as of now. who can lock down that vote and who can lock down the progressive vote? who can convention bernie supporters to support them along with those moderates? >> i think democrats are in an interesting position right now. they basically have four front runners. none of those really has the momentum and the race question for pete was basically a subtext of that debate. nobody really came at him. even though qa:ñharris criticized him afterwards, they

also don't have the support of african-american voters. joe biden is really the only candidate who has strong african-american support right now, which is fascinating. >> michael, you will kill me here. i only have a second. let me just ask this, does jay zee at all feel the nfl is using him with this kaepernick stuff? >> of course not. here's the thing, you talk about racism on a racial lens, why is it that a black guy sits at the table the white guy is using you as opposed guess this it was jay zee's presence that forced the nfl to do something, give colin capering in a shot. capeay g in a shot. jay 1. >> you know how to listen to production. thank you, sir. that's all4hse we have for toda. have a wonderful thanksgiving holiday. it is my favorite tradition. because you cana make any tradition you want.áw we'll be back next week, though, because if it's sunday, it's v÷press."

[ music playing ]

get ready for a wicked weather week ahead as tens of millions hit the road for the thanksgiving holiday we're tracking two large storms that will have major travel implications. trouble in the ranks as the secretary of the navy is fired in a dispute with the president over t disciplining of a navy s.e.a.l. the outbreak on board a cruise ship. passengers rushed to the hospital why are they allowing more guests to board? it was a record-setting night for taylor swift at the american music awards as the stars pulled out all the stops for music and fashion. we have your highlights. and "frozen 2" ruled at the box office taking in cse