this sunday, state of play. >> thank you, new hampshire! >> who's the democratic front-runner. is it new hampshire winner bernie sanders? >> we will not only defeat trump, we will transform this country. >> or delegate leader pete buttigieg? >> i now stand before you at the head of an unlikely campaign leading in the race for delegates to the democratic nomination. >> can amy klobuchar keep surging? >> i'm amy klobuchar and i will beat donald trump. >> or should democrats pin their hopes on michael bloomberg, who's now facing heightened scrutiny. >> i know i can't change history. what i can do is learn from my mistakes. >> this morning my exclusive sitdown with the one-time

front-runner, former vice president joe biden, who took on sanders supporters. >> if any of my supporters did that, i'd disown them. >> and my interview with senator amy klobuchar of minnesota. plus, the president strikes back. >> what lesson did you learn from impeachment? >> that the democrats are crooked. they have got a lot of crooked things going. that they're vicious. >> president trump attacks his foes and protects his friends in a post-impeachment show of force. and attorney general william barr sounds off about his boss. >> the statements and tweets make it impossible for me to do my job. >> was this a genuine rebuke of the president or political theater? joining me for insight and analysis are "washington post" columnist eugene robinson, nbc white house correspondent peter alexander, danielle pletka, and maria teresa kumar, president of voto la teennto.

welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. when you're thinking about the democratic presidential race, it's helpful to remember a line from the movie "no country for old men." no, i'm not going where you think i'm going. paraphrasing here. if this ain't a mess, it'll do until the mess gets here. bernie sanders has a plausible path to the nomination leaving the democratic establishment grasping for an alternative. pete buttigieg and amy klobuchar are splitting the center left vote and mike bloomberg stands ready to devoid the non-sanders even more. and then joe biden, fourth and fifth place finishes have raised serious doubts about whether his campaign will survive. in just a few minutes you'll see by sitdown with the vice president. against that backdrop is what one democratic senator called president trump's retribution

tour. his acting or attacking enemies including those who testified at the house impeachment hearings and then of course trying to protect his friends. it all suggests the lesson that mr. trump learned from impeachment is to just be himself only more so. it's left democrats feeling an even greater urgency to find the right candidate to take on mr. trum trump, while being no closer to figuring out who that candidate is. >> nevada. >> south carolina. >> north carolina. >> virginia. >> right here in texas. >> as democratic candidates look to nevada, south carolina and the 15 states and territories that vote on super tuesday, democrats are already anxious about the potential of a drawn-out primary fight that could drag on for months. >> i did win the popular vote in iowa. i did win the popular vote and win the primary in new hampshire. i think we're going to win in nevada. >> the strong start by bernie sanders is triggering alarm among some democrats who worry he could win a plurality of

delegates with strength just on the left without broadening his support. >> i was the only one on that stage that raised my hand and said i didn't think we should have a socialist leading the democratic ticket. >> what he's offering is a solution that you're either for the revolution or the status quo and there's nothing in between. >> democrats worry if sanders is not the nominee, many of his supporters will refuse to get in line behind another candidate. sanders supporters attacked nevada's hotel workers union after it criticized his position on medicare for all. >> we're living in a strange world on the internet. sometimes people attack people in somebody else's name. but let me be very clear, anybody making personal attacks against anybody else in my name is not part of our movement. we don't want them. >> with joe biden's decline, democrats are jockeying to prove they are the best equipped to take on sanders and win the center. among them michael bloomberg, whose rise in the polls is fueled by more than $300 million in ad spending. >> we've all heard the slogan

mike will get it done. if you haven't, i've been spending an awful lot of money to get it out there. >> with bloomberg's growing strength comes new scrutiny of his past, including a 2015 speech defending new york city's controversial stop-and-frisk policing policy. >> the way you get the guns out of the kids' hands is to throw them up against the wall and frisk them. >> sometimes you just make a mistake, and i think the sign of leadership is standing up and saying so. >> 2008 comments that seem to blame the economic crisis on banks ending red lining, the denial of housing loans to minority neighborhoods. >> that crisis would not have been averted if the banks had been able to be bigger racists. and anyone who thinks that should not be the leader of our country. >> and allegations from women of sexist comments and workplace discrimination at his company. on saturday, bloomberg tweeted i would not be where i am today

without the talented women around me. i will always be a champion for women in the workplace. bloomberg's rise and the muddle among centrist democrats is a product of one thing, biden's struggles. >> nobody told me it will be easy. i don't believe you brought me this far to leave me now. don't leave us now. >> yesterday i sat down with the former vice president, joe biden, in las vegas where he is campaigning ahead of saturday's nevada caucuses. i began by asking how months of public attacks by president trump on he and his son have affected him personally. >> first of all, it initially made me angry. but i realized that whomever was likely -- whoever he most feared was going to be the victim of his affection, no matter who it is, they're going to go after them. and secondly, what a determined was, i know this sounds -- i don't know what it sounds, i'll just say it. you know, a president can't just fight, a president has to be

able to forgive, has to be able to reach out. we've got to pull the country together. and so the dilemma has been, you know, how much do i let my frustration show and how much do i focus on -- because ultimately it's not about me, chuck, it's about the folks listening. i mean for real. >> i've got to ask, you've been asked about lindsey graham before. what kind of violation of your friendship has this been? >> well, you know, lindsey -- i went out of my way for lindsey, and lindsey recorded things that were so -- about what a wonderful guy i am. but when i watched how lindsey responded under pressure to john mccain, our mutual friend, john and i went at each other hammer and tong but at his deathbed he asked me to do his eulogy. he was honorable, he was decent. it just stunned me that he did

not respond to the attacks on john that were made by this president so viciously. and the way he -- well, i shouldn't -- hurt the family. so i'm not surprised but i have to tell you i'm disappointed. he was friends with jill, he was friends with beau, he was friends with hunter. >> let me ask it this way, if you become president of the united states and lindsey graham calls you up and says, hey, that was just politics, can we begin our friendship again. how's that conversation going to go? >> i'd say i'll be willing to talk to him because i want to know. >> you want to know why he did it? so you'll take that phone call if he'll ever give you that phone call? >> yes, i would. >> have you thought about the fact that the president is campaigning against you and your son might have been effective? that it might have cost you iowa, might have cost you new hampshire? has that crossed your mind? >> it has, but, you know, i

can't -- i can't focus on that, chuck. i've got to focus on the future. i've got to focus on how do we end this era of -- i mean how do we literally i wrote about it restore the soul of this country. it's being eaten out. it's being eaten away. the cruelty, the viciousness, the way he pits people against one another, the way he goes after people of color, the way he makes fun. there's a cruelty about it. that's not who we are, chuck. i refuse to believe that's who the american people are. >> let me talk about the campaign. >> yes. >> there was something you wrote in your book before you launched your campaign. you were talking about the 2016 campaign you might have run. you weren't going to do a cautious, trim around the edges campaign, you thought that was pointless. so biden for president was going to be big. anything less just wasn't worth it. you look at this campaign now, can you say this is not a cookie cutter campaign? do you feel like you are running something different, running something bigger some of your

supporters feel like there's not the urgency they want out of you. >> i understand. one of the reasons they say that is because i'm unwilling up to now to attack the democratic opponents who are attacking me. i mean i got involved, i was viewed as the front-runner, i had the target on my back, i had been put through the test. and they have thrown a lot at me, and some misrepresentations. and so i have to ask myself whether or not it has been wise to be sort of polite and not negative as i have not been. the ideas i have, chuck, are big and bold. i mean this idea that i'm not the progressive in the race. i mean my lord, if i get elected president of the united states with my position on health care, my position on global warming, my position on foreign policy, my position on the middle class, this will go down as one of the most progressive administrations in american history. but what you're up against is

things that are almost fanciful like medicare for all. 35, $40 trillion. even bernie is now saying how much is it going to cost? who knows, we'll find out. i think that's the fraphrase he used. we don't know. part of being president is not just the idea you have, can you get it done. have you ever done anything big? have you ever been able to put together coalitions that bring along republicans and all the democrats to get things done? and the idea -- i mean it's almost fanciful sometimes. >> isn't that bernie's strength? one thing about bernie, you know where he stands, you know who he is, he doesn't change. >> and he's never gotten anything done. >> no, i get it. >> he's been talking about health care, medicare for all, universal health care for 35 years. nothing has happened. i helped get passed obamacare. i helped move it forward. i got the votes.

i'm in a position where i take something i promise you i'll get done. we take obamacare and allow people out here in nevada, what's going on. bernie requires and elizabeth's plan requires you to give up all private insurance. these folks have broken their necks, the culinary union and others, to get the most comprehensive health care that's out there and they have given up wages for it. now they're being told you've got to give it up, you can't keep it and it's going to cost $30 trillion or more and i can't tell you who's going to pay for it. i mean come on. this is -- i think people are so tired of the lack of straightforwardness out there. now, if i'm wrong, i'm going to be dead wrong, but i really believe that you have to lay out why you're doing what you're doing and how you're going to get it done. >> are you concerned that $300 million has gotten michael bloomberg half your support among african-americans? we're starting to see it in the super tuesday states. >> well, you just saw the super tuesday states, georgia i'm still getting 80%.

anyway, the point is that $60 billion can buy you a lot of advertising, but it can't erase your record. there's a lot to talk about with michael bloomberg. you all are going to start focusing on him like you have on me. i'm not complaining, like you have on me the last six months. you're going to focus on him. his position on issues relating to the african-american like stop and frisk to the way he talked about obama. >> has it dawned on you that two of your biggest rival its, one is not a member of the democratic party yet and the other was a republican about five or six years ago. >> no, it doesn't surprise me. >> what does that say about the state of today's democratic party? >> i think what it says is money, billions of dollars, can take you a long, long way. and it says that it's going to be awful hard to go out and win those -- the base support of the democratic party, the african-americans, latinos and working class white folks and

put that coalition together. that's how you win an election. you put that coalition together. >> i was stunned that you didn't do as well in manchester and dubuque. you're middle class joe. you're the guy of the working class. you didn't do well in dubuque and manchester. >> well, i did better in dubuque but i got outspent overwhelmingly in both places. i think bernie spent $25 million. >> and this is what has your supporters anxious. you're the former vice president. how are you getting outspent by bernie and by buttigieg? >> i shouldn't be, but i haven't -- i haven't spent the time. it's starting to happen now. i haven't spent the time going out, doing the fund-raisers and moving the way i have. now online we're raising about $400,000 a day. we have a lot of fund-raisers that are online and we've got a lot of union support now. so -- but i think you're right that my being outspent has had

an impact. we're going to be able to compete from here on in, including these two. >> south carolina is it, isn't it? i mean you have to win that. >> well, i think i have to do really well. >> what's really well? is there such a thing as doing well without winning for you? >> i think so. but look, i'll be -- look, right after that within -- on march the 4th we end up going into all the states where the polling data is now showing me doing incredibly well, whether it's north carolina or georgia or texas or any of these other places. it's not an apt comparison but bill clinton lost his first eight, ten, 12 primaries and caucuses before he won one. i don't plan on taking that long. but we're just getting to the meat of getting to the number of delegates you need to be able to win this election and i'm confident we're going to be in good shape. >> bernie sanders is a guy who says he's going to support whoever is the nominee and he's all in. are you confident his supporters

will do that or are you worried that some of his supporters -- if his supporters are attacking culinary union members, who's responsible for that? >> look, he may not be responsible for it, but he has some accountability. i'm going to put you in a spot. you know me well enough to know that if any of my supporters did that, i'd disown them. flat disown them. the stuff that was said online, the way they threatened these two women who are leaders in that culinary union, it is o outrageo outrageous. just go online and take a look at the things they said. the vicious, malicious, misogynistic things they said, the threats they put out. to say i'd disassociate is one thing. find out who the hell they are, if any of them worked for me, fire them. finding o find out. see what's going on. >> you don't think he's been curious enough? >> i'm hoping he's looking.

i tell you what, so far i don't think it's sufficient just to say i'd disassociate myself. >> mr. vice president, thank you, sir. >> thanks. >> good to talk to you. >> thank you. you can see my entire interview with joe biden on our website, meetthepress.com. when we come back -- >> hello, america, i'm amy klobuchar and i will beat donald trump. >> the candidate who introduced herself in a big way tuesday herself in a big way tuesday night with a strong, surprising dana-farber cancer institute discovered the pd-l1 pathway. pd-l1. they changed how the world fights cancer. blocking the pd-l1 protein, lets the immune system attack, attack, attack cancer. pd-l1 transformed, revolutionized, immunotherapy. pd-l1 saved my life. saved my life. saved my life. what we do here at dana-faber, changes lives everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. everywhere. when i lost my sight,

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warren and joe biden. the question now, does she have an encore? and amy klobuchar joins me now from las vegas. senator klobuchar, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks, chuck. i can't think of a better place to have an encore that las vegas. >> fun way to tease that. but let me talk about that. one of the hallmarks of your new hampshire campaign is you essentially outevented everybody. i think by our counti you did more events than any of the other major candidates. that translated into something there the end of that campaign. you now are suddenly going from a one-state campaign to this thing is about to scale up in a hurry. are you able to put together a campaign in order to become one of the leading front-runners? >> i am, chuck. we're really buoyed by what we've seen here in nevada. i got the endorsement of the "las vegas sun" and a recent poll in the "review journal" had me in double digits so that's a

major change for us. what has happened since that debate in just a little over a week is that we raised over $12 million online, mostly from just regular people, new people who gave. that's the first time in a campaign like this that you've seen a surge from people just seeing a debate and deciding, you know what, i like this person and i think she's going to have my back. and i think she can lead this ticket to victory, which is the number one concern of democrats. so we are doing multiple events here. we had over a thousand people in reno just a day or two ago, in las vegas now, and we're just taking this message all over the state. >> $12 million in a week is impressive. $300 million from michael bloomberg is what you're facing. i say this because you guys are fighting for the same part of the party here. i mean it is -- that has got to be daunting. on one hand you've got some money, you can start building a national campaign, but you're facing this onslaught.

>> is it daunting? yes. i do things like go on your show, take tough questions and he is running more ads on whatever he wants during that same time. that's what life is. and i think what needs to happen here is that he needs to go on shows like this, which he hasn't done. he just can't hide behind the air waves. he has to answer questions and of course i think he should be on that debate stage, which eventually he will be, because i can't beat him on the air waves, but i can beat him on the debate stage. i think people of america deserve that to make a decision. >> you know, when you look at the new hampshire exit poll, you saw that the sort of non-sanders wing of the party, whatever you want to call it, the pragmatists, the centrists, whatever title you want to give to it, it is larger than what sanders had. but at the end of the day, you guys aren't pragmatic enough. let me show you something politico wrote. the pragmatic compromising

democrat moderates can't pragmatically agree to compromise on a preferred presidential candidate. instead they have handed their them si nemesis, sanders, the bragging right in the first two contests even though he hasn't touched 30% of the vote in either. if you don't coalesce around somebody, he could be the leading delegate guy after super tuesday and there's not enough delegates left to stop him. >> this is a primary. we're not going to go back in some back room, three or four people, and just say, okay, you got it, i don't. we're competing. and the voters of this country get to make that decision. and eventually people will drop out of this race, but right now this is a competition and that's how it should be. i also think people understand that what unites us is bigger than what divides us. i was the one on that debate stage when asked should we have a socialist leading the ticket, i was the only one that raised my hand. even though i get along with bernie, we came into the senate

together, we've worked on pharmaceutical prices together. my argument is that while i may not have the money of michael bloomberg, i will get the money from people as this goes on, as i emerge as a stronger candidate. we now are going to have teams in every single super tuesday state. i'm starting to travel to these states and we're going to be doing events in nearly all of them, so -- >> let me ask you this. at some point you have to win. you have to win someplace. >> yeah. >> and it can't just be in minnesota. we know that will be an opportunity for you. where are you going to win by super tuesday? >> there are so many states out there, i'm not going to list them all for you, but it's everything. you can just go around the country. i don't know which state i'll win but i'll do better than anyone imagined. there's states like colorado and utah, there's states like north carolina on super tuesday. there's states like virginia. i can go around the map with you. but right now who knows who's going to win, because a lot of us are clustered together in the

polls. i don't have the biggest name i.d. or the biggest bank account, but i have this ability to bring people with me and that's what you're seeing, slowly but surely in every single state. and by the way, when the mayor -- mayor bloomberg and the president were going at each other on twitter, when the president claimed that the mayor was 5'4" and the mayor said no, he's taller, i am the only one that has the claim to be 5'4" in this race, the only one. >> you take that, president trump, i guess. let me ask you about michael bloomberg. can you envision supporting him as the nominee, somebody who's been a democratic for, i think, only a couple of years? >> i've been very clear that i'm going to support whoever comes out of that convention who is our democratic nominee. if he is the one that emerges from that convention, i would support him. i still do not think he is the best candidate for our country. i don't think that people look

at the guy in the white house and say, oh, let's get someone richer. i think my background where donald trump got $413 million from his dad in the course of his career and my grandpa saved money in a coffee can in the basement to send my dad to a community college as he worked in the mines his whole life, you can't fit $413 million in a coffee can in the basement. i would also add the midwest is not flyover country to me. i live there. and the people that live there are not poker chips in a bankrupt casino, since i'm in vegas, they are my friends and neighbors. that's the area of the country we need to win and that's also a strong case i'm going to have against michael bloomberg. >> if you're the democratic nominee, are you going to be comfortable accepting funding help in different ways and from michael bloomberg? there's a lot of progressive and democratic groups that have received a lot of money from him over the years.

is -- what is the price of that money in your mind? >> right now i'm just focused on our own campaign and that is based and fueled so much by those small contributions at amy klobuchar.com that's allowed me to compete a modicum of money to be able to compete on the air waves with mayor bloomberg and others. that to me is where i am focused. i believe in the future that of course when we get a nominee, there is going to be enough money, because of the incredible interest of people in this country, not just fired-up democrats, but also independents and moderate republicans like i brought in in new hampshire, like i'm going to bring in in n nevada. they also want to see a change in the white house. they don't agree with everything that's said on the debate stage but they agree with me when it comes to a decency check and patriotism check. even though they may not agree wef with everything on the debate stage. i'm really excited with the coalition i can put together to

beat the president. >> given some of the things that michael bloomberg has said, whether it's women in the workplace that he's been accused of saying or about policing african-americans, redlining, things like that, if he's the democratic nominee does it make the job of going after president trump's character harder? >> again, i don't think he's the best person to lead the ticket, i think i am. but i think just like every other candidate, like i have come on your show multiple times and a number of other candidates have come on and answered tough questions, he's got to do the same thing. he hasn't gone on the sunday shows since he announced. instead he's just running ads. i don't think you should be able to hide behind the ads. i think you should not only go on these shows. i also think that he should take the debate stage. that's why i have actually been supportive of him on that debate stage because i know i can't beat him on the air waves but i can beat him on the debate stage. >> let me ask you this. he's getting scrutinized for his record on criminal justice issues and now so are you.

i'm curious about this when it comes to your record. there's been a lot of people that have done more analysis over the years as a prosecutor. have you read these look backs? and if you have, have you sort of winced? do you look back at your career and think, boy, there are some things, if i knew then what i know now maybe i'd be a different prosecutor, maybe i wouldn't have put so much trust always in law enforcement and what they say on the witness stand versus what somebody else says. do you at all acknowledge that maybe your record deserves a different look? >> well, of course what we know now was not the same as what we knew then. and i have always been an advocate for criminal justice reform. that was a tough job. i supervised 10 to 15,000 cases every single year and we did a lot of good work and i was proud of our office. but we know there is systematic

racism in the criminal justice system. the answer is of course something i worked on when i had that job before being in the senate is diversifying the office. it is doing things like videotaping interrogations, something i advocated for and we had in minnesota. it is doing eyewitness i.d. in a different way that limits racial misidentifications. it is what we're doing now in the senate where i've been a co-sponsor of the first step act to reduce nonviolent sentences. as president, for good or bad, i think having someone that's led on these issues will be a good thing because i will be able to get that clemency board in place and move on to the second step act because i have a deep understanding of the goods and the bads of the criminal justice system. >> senator amy klobuchar, democrat from minnesota, thank you for getting on extraordinarily early today and sharing your views. >> all good. thanks, chuck. when we come back, michael bloomberg is spending money like a front-runner, which it took plenty of work to get here.

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welcome back. the panel is here. eugene robinson, danielle pletka, maria teresa kumar and nbc white house correspondent, "weekend today" co-anchor, peter alexander. welcome to all of you. so, michael bloomberg. maria teresa, this is alleged comments that bloomberg -- this is from a "washington post" look-back on bloomberg on women. it feels like pretrump this could have been disqualifying in a primary. quotes that have been attributed to him. if women wanted to be appreciated for their brains, they'd go to the library instead of bloomingdale's.

referring to lawsuits about discrimination. when bloomberg saw certain women, he said i'd expletive that in a second. when bloomberg learned that garrison, someone that worked for him, was pregnant, according to her lawsuit he allegedly said "kill it." he has denied that he said those words in a deposition. is this going to be damaging to him as he tries to become a mainstream democrat? >> this is where it's going to get tough. who is going to show up for the american public. is it going to be mayor bloomberg or philanthropist bloomberg? i say this because philanthropist bloomberg is the one that has invested heavily on electing women through emily's lis, has invested heavily for planned parenthood, has invested heavily on gun reform. has invested heavily on every single issue that will expand the base and bring in a bigger tent. mayor bloomberg when he talks about what's happened with redlining and stop and frisk has been incredibly damaging with

some of those policies. so as he rolls out his person and his persona, he's going to have to be able to answer directly of what is happening and who is going to show up. >> eugene, does it take character off the table? >> it may. i mean we did have an election in 2016 and donald trump did win it, after the "access hollywood" tape, after everything. he won the election. and so i think a lot of democrats, as they look toward this election, they're saying it's trump, it's going to be a knife fight, maybe we should look at the guy with the biggest knife, right? and with $60 billion knife. that's michael bloomberg. i think that's why he's getting a look from the democratic party and i think that's -- that's why, you know, things that definitely would have been disqualifying just a few years ago may not in and of themselves be disqualifying. we have yet to see him on a

debate stage, yet to see him mix it up, yet to see how he actually performs. but we've seen a lot of ads and it's gotten him some numbers in the polls. >> you know, it's interesting, danielle pletka, amy klobuchar decided not to go to any of those places. and that is her prerogative. maybe she'll do it at the debate, maybe not. she clearly wants him on the debate stage, that's for sure. >> i think she does because she recognizes that she's going to come across as genuine and together and he's going to come across as a thin-skinned rich guy who bought his way into the democratic primary. >> are you saying he's a bad debater? >> i worry. let me put it this way, he's not a personal friend of mine so i don't know how he is going to debate. one of the things that great wealth does to you is insulates you from the people. one of the things that donald trump has going for him is you can say a lot of bad things about donald trump, and we all have. but he is actually a man of a certain group of people. a lot of people don't like those people, but he is a man of the people. i don't think that bloomberg is

going to prove himself to be a man of the people. >> peter, the president, though, he's -- i think he's -- he respects only one thing in life, i think wealth. >> i was going to say there is one thing the president notices and that's how much money you have. the president likes to boast about how much money he has. this guy has 60 times more money, $60 billion by some estimates here so that is the one thing that resonates with the president. the president this week again attacked him, referring him to mini mike. a lot of democrats appreciated someone that fought back and used the same insults that said stuff that's not pretty but at least this guy won't back down from it. i was in the oval office and said who's the front-runner? he said i think it's got to be bernie. i said why is bernie surging? his eyes sparkled for a second. he wants to praise bernie because he sees something about bernie in himself, an outsider, he's anti-establishment, he's got a movement. obviously i think he'd like to run against bernie sanders.

bloomberg i think he has concerns about. >> maria teresa, where is this all headed? it's a mess. >> grab the popcorn. the biggest challenge is with bernie sanders, the question is that he will grow that electoral base that the democrats need in order to win. >> will he? >> he'll bring in the young people. >> he hasn't yet. >> no, he has. >> so far? youth turnout went down, not up. >> you actually saw in iowa, you saw a skpconstituency of the lao vote and african-american votes outperform. that is where the new base is coming from. the challenge is, is he going to turn off a lot of the moderate republicans and independents that bloomberg will actually be able to know siphon off. >> or amy klobuchar and pete buttigieg won those voters in new hampshire as well. >> but the challenge -- this is the challenge with buttigieg and klobuchar is that coming into nevada, they do not have a base. biden has a base, warren has a base and bernie has a base. those are the three. and so when you start talking about -- and they have been

working it for a long, long time. i have to say elizabeth warren's camp, she brought in all the folks from julian castro's camp but also the same people that made sure hillary won last time. >> julian was the best organizer in nevada. >> well, after nevada we get to south carolina. i don't want to -- it's dangerous this year to look past any primary. >> don't look past any. >> don't look past nevada. what happens in nevada will affect what happens in south carolina. but that's -- i certainly believe a do-or-die state for joe biden. he has to do well there. >> what's well? >> he's got to win. >> okay. i was surprised he didn't say win. >> i'm sorry, he's got to win. and, you know, there was a poll that showed nationally biden's african-american support going down. that's the ball game in south carolina basically. you have to do well. so that south carolina firewall, if bloomberg actually makes inroads there, i mean bloomberg

is not even running there and he's polling at 6%. >> a media market helps because he's advertising heavily in north carolina. >> if you see biden go down, maybe bernie comes up or whatever. you know, i think that would be a disaster for biden and i think it would be good for bloomberg going into super tuesday. >> the problem is we're still talking about this as if it's some sort of speed dating show. you know, for me the big question that we don't talk about enough is what is the democratic party going to stand for? is the democratic party going to be the party of we have to beat donald trump at all costs? or is the democratic party -- which is what it has been for the last two years. >> and bloomberg is saying, hey, that's what i am. i have a lot of warts, but you know what, let's go. >> or is it the party of ideas and that's -- because that's what inspires people. >> and this is where the challenge is. you have historically democrats that will vote for whoever is on the ballot right now because they are feeling nervous. but we also know that's not going to get them over the top unless they grow that base and that has to be a party of ideas.

this is where i think a lot of the democrats are missing the opportunity. they keep talking about these big ideas but they're not landing it. they have to give the vision of the day after donald trump -- the day right after my inauguration and donald trump is gone, this is what we're going to do something. that's how they have to synthesize it. >> well, that was a nice, robust discussion, thank you. and remember nbc news and msnbc, the networks at nbc news will be hosting the next democratic debate wednesday from las vegas. i'll be joined by lester holt, hallie jackson, vanessa hawk wednesday at 9:00 p.m. eastern. don't miss it. don't miss it. when we come back,

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the most votes in iowa and new hampshire but it shows a candidate hitting a ceiling for now rather than a glide path to the nomination. in both states sanders garnered almost the same percentage of the vote. check this out, 26.5% and 25.6% respectively compared with buttigieg earning similar amounts as well. sanders can blame the large field of candidates, but donald trump got 35% in new hampshire in 2016 in a similarly crowded field. sanders often makes the case for enthusiasm, that is people are more fired up and he's better able to bring new voters into the fold as a result. if you look at the combined percentages among the centrist candidates, they do much better than the progressives, earning 51% of the vote in iowa and 52% in new hampshire. then there's turnout. tuesday's new hampshire primary broke the record set in 2008 with an 18% increase and overall turnout compared with four years ago. but a decline in the groups that tend to support sanders. the amount of 18 to 29-year-old voters was down 5% on tuesday

night compared to when sanders swept the 2016. the amount of very liberal voters was down the same amount compared to 2016 as well. those kinds of numbers do not favor the sanders campaign and actually could just get tougher. iowa and new hampshire were near perfect places for sanders to flex his progressive muscle. both were states he had organized in before, one being next door to his home in vermont. but there are very few other contests with as friendly of electorates to sanders as those two, first two states of iowa and new hampshire. when we come back, when bill barr suggested that president trump knock off the tweets, was it's tough to quit smoking cold turkey. so chantix can help you quit slow turkey. along with support, chantix is proven to help you quit. with chantix you can keep smoking at first and ease into quitting. chantix reduces the urge so when the day arrives, you'll be more ready to kiss cigarettes goodbye.

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back now with "end game."

it's been an active week in washington away from the campaign. we've seen attorney general bill barr's justice department intervene in the roger stone and mike flynn cases. we've seen four prosecutors quit as a result and we heard barr rebuking. we'll put that in quotes for now. president trump and his tweets. rebuked him again in an abc news interview. i want to play a couple of things before we get started with this conversation. first i want to play barr about what the tweets have done to him. take a listen. >> once the tweet occurred, the question is, well, now what do i do? and do you go forward with what you think is the right decision or do you pull back because of the tweet? and that just sort of illustrates how disruptive these tweets can be. >> of course everybody has been trying to figure out who is barr talking to. is he rebuking the president? here's what laura ingraham on fox news, here's what she said after the interview. >> the media sees the sexy story of trump versus barr, but they

missed the fact that barr was basically telling trump, don't worry, i got this. >> peter alexander, did laura ingraham just say the quiet part outloud? >> i think a lot of people believe that's the case. effectively what barr was saying is, hey, boss, this is unnecessary and unhelpful. look at the actions we've taken to this point so far. this is not a president who's in it for justice, he's in it for an eye for an eye. think about what's happened in the last eight to ten days since he was impeached. i asked him for lessons learned. there was no self-reflection. he said democrats are crooked. he's fired gordon sondland and vindman. he moved on attacking the stone decision. he got what he wanted out of it. and mccabe i'm told is what made him angrier than anything right now. this is a president that is emboldened. the best example is today he goes to the daytona 500. i'm told he is planning to literally taking a victory lap. the cars lean left and the crowd lean right. this is a trump rally and he

feels stronger right now. >> dani, he quoted ralph waldo emerson -- >> he misquoted ralph waldo emerson. i guess i'm a little less inclined to attribute some malign intent to attorney general barr. >> you were shocked laura ingraham said that? >> i was totally shocked laura ingraham said that, but no comment. i do think it's possible that he's actually just telling the president to shut up. i think that those who see a conspiracy here have to make a decision. either trump is an idiot who's out there just, you know, slamming through everything, slamming through all the norms or he's a conspiracy guy who's behind the scenes working with his attorney general to send out a message. i don't see him as that guy. i see him as that guy where it's all out there. and i also see barr as a very serious prosecutor. so i think he'd love the president to be quiet. >> you know, i -- a serious prosecutor? i think bill barr once was a serious prosecutor, i'm not sure

he is now. but i do think i cannot imagine that president trump liked being publicly rebuked by somebody who worked for him. whatever -- >> no other cabinet secretary has gotten away with it. >> even if it had been a pre-planned kind of song and dance, he would not have enjoyed that. that would have eaten at him. i think it will eat at him that the justice department is not going to prosecute andrew mccabe. >> or jim comey. >> right. it's not going to go down that road that president trump wants it to go down. on the other hand, laura ingraham is basically right that barr has done a lot of the things that trump would like, if trump would just leave him alone he'd get a good result. but i don't think the president can leave that scab alone. we'll see the next couple weeks. >> what should democrats do? >> call him in for an oversight hearing. >> well, they are at the end of

march. >> this is the challenge. the president has taken the department of justice as his own personal vendetta. it is a dotted line to whatever he wants to actually do. what i mean by that is when guiliani said i'm trying to pick up dirt on the president and giving it over to the department of justice, barr didn't say that he wasn't accepting that dirt. >> no, he said they have created a channel. >> a channel, right? they're actively building that -- that's the wall. that's the bridge that they're actually building together. that's the challenge. the turmoil that was inside the department of justice prior to that, you know, these conversations that there was going to be actually an insurrection and people were going to walk out, but i know people who used to work for the department of justice and they take their job so seriously. they say my job is to uphold the constitution and make sure everybody gets a fair shot. what trump has been able to do in that institution is going to be long lasting. >> and barr himself, that's the thing where everybody is trying to evade.

barr himself noted the dilemma. he's admitting it creates the appearance of political interference. >> no, you're exactly right. this was a release valve for william barr, no matter what. it had to happen in some form because we know what was happening behind the scenes at the justice department. not just those four prosecutors walking away but the potential of a lot more leaving. we saw around the country federal prosecutors having real concerns the president is going to intervene with what's going on. at the end of the day this is a president who wants his justice department to protect him and go after his enemies. i'm told he was so much more angry about andrew mccabe not being prosecuted than anything else william barr said. the idea that, hey, let's go after these guys. >> why does he always wanting to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory? >> that's donald trump. >> it's amazing. his approval rating will likely go down from this. we know the trump skeptic voter, right, sits there and says i like the economy, i like these things, stop tweeting, stop doing these things. those are the ones that go back

to disapproving him. >> but i want to draw us back to something that i think should concern everybody and that is that these are norms that were beginning to be eroded before donald trump. donald trump just takes that ball and runs with it. the irs going after people who the president doesn't like. president obama being rebuked by james comey for being perceived to have prejudged the clinton email investigation. these don't rise to the level of what donald trump has done, but they create this appearance of, what did donald trump call himself, the king, right? you don't want a president who is the king. >> it's not a monarchy. >> i don't want barack obama to be my king, i don't want donald trump to be my king, i don't want any of them to be my king. >> we really don't want a justice department that is seen as politicized. i've lived in countries where that was the case. we don't want that. it's hard to get it back. hard to get it back. >> i think we're in a situation that we need to come up with different ways that we appoint a attorney general. do we need to come up with a five-year term and separate it

out from presidential terms? >> interesting question. >> i just throw that out there because the public isn't going to feel good about this. it doesn't matter. >> it has to be objectively fair but the perception of fairness i we know nothing else, it's that the perception is clearly lost. >> eugene really hit on something. we have experienced countries where the press is constantly under attack and scrutiny and the justice department is constantly under attack and scrutiny. my family fled colombia. the only thing that kept them a democracy is the fact the judges were fair and the press was fair and told the truth. those were also the most dangerous jobs in that country. >> yes, yes. >> all right, guys, thank you. nice to have a couple of robust conversations today. that's all for today. thank you for watching. it's been great to be in iowa and new hampshire but it's great to be here too. we'll be back next week right after the nevada caucuses. we hope they have results. because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

> americans begin evacuating from a cruise ship quarantined in japan as the numbers of infected grows and now we are learning chinese leaders knew long ago about the virus. rescuers going door to door as floodwaters continue rising across theouth an exciting nba all-star weekend with one of the best matches between team lebron and team yanis are those high-tech health alerts always reliable president trump's appearance at the daytona 500 wows the crowd ahead of a nasty rain delay. and th