quo. by memorial day if you look at the trends today i think by memorial day we will largely have this coronavirus epidemic behind us. is this memorial day 2020? is that realistic it's behind us? can you explain what he means by that? >> i think he means that in the models and in tracking our actual data -- because, previously, we were using models based on data from around the >> socially distancing must continue. world, and now we are very much our economic shutdown cannot. tracking every single outbreak >> some states reopening their in the united states separately. economies. >> we are going to have to see and if you look at those our cases continue to go up, but outbreaks over time and if you we are a lot better prepared for look at places like louisiana, that now than we were over a if you look at houston, if you month ago. >> this as millions more file will look at detroit and you look at how they have reached for unemployment. their peak and come down and >> we can't hide in fear of the rest of our lives! >> and as the u.s. death toll what those cases will like as when you project out es us passes 50,000. >> if you want to live, you stay boston and chicago and certainly home. the new york metro, which we are my god. don't open up this country. all still very focused on. plus the president versus they still have 45% or so the stpcientists on a coronavir surge in the file. percent of the cases in the

>> possible it doesn't come back united states. in the fall. >> next fall and winter, we are and the majority about 40% to going to have two viruses circulating. >> on testing. >> we are not in a situation we 50% of the mortality so we continue to watch this very say where we are exactly where closely. but that is where the we want to in regards testing. >> if projections take us and it's very much based on detroit, louisiana, and other groups. with him. >> reporter: and disinfectants. then looking at seattle, that never really reached a peak and >> any way we can do that by has never really had a large outbreak and trying to injection inside or almost a understand what we can do as a cleaning? people to ensure. >> or use uv rays inside the socially distancing will be with body? >> that is a treatment. us through the summer to really >> my guest this morning is dr. ensure that we protect one another as we move through these deb was birx and governor of new phases. >> dr. birx, help me understand what happened with the jersey phil murray and former suggestion that the president made that the task force study georgia gubernatorial candidate disinfectant injections? you said he was digesting stacey abrams. information at the time when joining me is andrea mitchell. that came out of his mouth. do you have any more information? and are you concerned that dr. vin gupta of the university of washington. people might take bleach because nbc news senior business of what the president said? correspondent stephanie ruhle.

welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press" in our >> i think i made it very clear continuing coverage of the in how i interpreted that. coronavirus pandemic. ♪ i also made it very clear and so has dr. fauci and everyone >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running associated with the task force show in television history, this and their clarity around. is "meet the press" with chuck todd. this is not a treatment. what was missed -- and really i'm hoping the american people good sunday morning. to give you some perspective and understand -- the reason why that study was important, that how devastating the coronavirus has been, consider this. there have now been more than department of homeland security did, was when we came and saw 900,000 confirmed cases of what mit talked about as viral covid-19 in the united states. with over 53,000 deaths. particles moving through the look at that number of deaths air. it's really important to figure for a moment. sometime this week, we are out in the outside conditions. likely to pass the 58,000 lives is there anything that decreases we lost in vietnam. the half-life of that virus? that death toll took us more than a decade to hit. and i think i was reassured this has taken us about 12 personally to see what impact weeks. the past seven days, at least 17 sunlight has on the virus and states in washington, d.c. have the viral light and that should registered their highest-ever be encouraging to all of us. one-day total of coronavirus we should still social distance and still wear the masks to cases. the national curve may be protect others as we work flattening but it's flattening through this epidemic but i at a very high level. think it's really important to what is now clear is that we, as see that sunlight, direct sunlight may actually be able to a country, particularly in the government level, have failed to kill the virus.

meet the moment. there is not enough testing to >> are you concerned, the understand the challenge we are credibility of the scientists on confronting. 26 million people so far have the task force get undermined filed for unemployment wiping out the gains made since the when the president now with 2008 financial crisis. money is not getting to the small businesses that need it to bleach -- obviously, you can't do that -- and hydroxy survive. and the president of the united chloroquine. states is floating ideas like is this undermining the ability of you and dr. fauci and other scientists? >> i think all of us are very injecting disinfectants into clear and very clear in our sick patients. some governors are tag a risky discussions with the american people how we are looking and step of opening their states for business and behind that decision, a brutal calculation. utilizing data to derive the unemployment, the hunger, decision making within the task the depression and social force. every day, about 2:30 a.m. i get dislocations of a stalled any with worse than the certainty of an even more larger death toll from covid-19 as businesses i get information how is the reopen. health care experts acknowledge the necessity of getting people virus moving and how are people responding to the virus and are back to work but warn that iite we considering everything to protect the american people? second wave with disastrous and triangulating that data to consequences. meanwhile, president trump come up with that day's work and eyeing the election in november where should ppe go and where is grasping at any idea to stop the virus and get the economy should we really be talking with back on track quickly. governors about a recent

outbreak and how do we protect >> to you take any governors in essential services? this is the discussion of the responsibility for these 50,000 task force and the physicians deaths that have happened in and the individuals involved in this country? >> i think we have done a great the task force are, every day, job. >> reporter: as the u.s. death toll continues to climb, on focused on what is the most friday, the administration scrambled to contain the recent scientific evidence. and i think what really the american people should fallout. understand is in the guidelines from the president's suggestion of injecting household that the nih regionally disinfectants might cure the published were helpful and put up this week to really talk coronavirus. >> i see the disinfectant knocks about clinically approach this. it out in a minute, one minute. but we have had really critical is there a way we can do data that has come to the something like that by injection forefront over the last few days about how this virus is interacting with people in the inside or almost a cleaning? united states. and i think that is really >> top administration officials tell nbc news that members of critical. we need to constantly be the coronavirus task force were focusing on what we are learning to save more lives and to make shocked by those comments! our treatment more effective. >> i certainly wouldn't recommend the internal ingestion of a disinfectant. >> dr. birx, i have to leave it >> surgeon general jerome adams there. i appreciate you coming on and warned, please, always talk to sharing the administration's your health provider first view. stay safe and healthy, yourself. before administering any treatment, medication to >> thank you. yourself or a loved one. the epa implored never apply the when we come back, i'll talk to the governor of the second product to yourself or others. hardest hit state in the

the cdc tweeted, household cleaners and disinfectants can country. as well as talk to an infectious cause health problems when not used properly. mr. trump's former fda commissioner who advises the task force. disease expert. when we go to break, imagines of >> there is no circumstance under which you should take a ♪ disinfectant inject a let's read a book-don't come behind the teacher's desk disinfectant for the treatment of anything. this is going to be so hard. >> i was asking a sarcastic ♪ so what we're going to do is we're going to make our own hand sanitizer. question to the reporters in the i'm going to teach you how to give yourself room about disinfectant on the a self-isolation haircut. inside but it does kill it and kill it on the hands and make (giggles) oh, no- i'm so sorry things much better. >> a latest example of the i'll be making my first birthday cake from scratch. president's desperate attempts to peddle treatment for a happy birthday pandemic that is killing make two stitches all the way around. thousands each day. for weeks the president touted i'm going to show you how to properly soak your nails off. the drug of a malaria drug to ew. ew. ew. today, were going to talk about how to groom your dogs. treat the virus. (laughing) he looks like a fried chicken leg. >> hydroxy chloroquine worked i have some key tips that will be helpful in working from home. dada! daddy's gotta work. unbelievably. >> reporter: fda citing heart today i'm going to show you how to plant some seeds wrinkle problems and warned against the use of the drug. grow things you're going to eat you guys, ok? ok! the president has broken with

the scientist who advise him. on testing -- i forgot to score the tops, ya'll. >> we absolutely need to ♪ significantly ramp up, not only the number of tests, but the capacity to actually perform them. make it tough to take care of yourself, >> no, i don't agree with him on that's why you can rely on nature's bounty... to give you the support you need... that. no. i think we are doing a great job to stay motivated keep active and sleep well. on the time line. add a little more health to your day... >> it might not come back at with nature's bounty. all. >> we will have coronavirus in the fall. >> joining me is dr. deborah and sometimes, you can find yourself birx. heading in a new direction. welcome to "meet the press." but when you're with fidelity, >> good morning. a partner who makes sure every step is clear, >> let me start with the issue of reopening, and that is the there's nothing to stop you from moving forward. four states right now that are doing some phase of it. none of these four states are meeting the guidelines that you laid out about ten days ago of what these phased reopenings would look like. what metrics each state should be looking for before they begin this. this wasn't a mandate. they were guidelines. i grant you that. how concerned are you we are up

to four states not following these federal guidelines? >> we put out the gating criteria to be very clear about what epidemiologic pieces we thought were critical, what health care delivery pieces we thought were critical, and what surveillance and monitoring pieces were critical. and we still believe strongly that those are the best public health recommendations to every state and every governor to welcome back. next to new york, the hardest hit state in the country has follow. >> would you advise any one of been new jersey. there have been over 105,000 these states that are ve opened, cases in new jersey, a georgia, south carolina, alaska, stay-at-home order has been in oklahoma, to be reopening right effect since march 21st and the now? >> well, each state is different state is probably weeks awa from jmp starting its economy, and and the reason we made the governor murphy joins me now. guidelines and gating criteria very specific was also -- i'm and governor, you have made note of these at your briefings. sure a lot of people have missed the asterisk -- that said to sadly, we just did the math. the death toll now surpasses the look not only statewide but also county-by-county. i've been very struck by how combined death toll of new jerseyans who died fighting in different the outbreaks are from vietnam, korea, and world war i. the metro regions to the rural i think the scope of this regions to the county regions continues to set in. and that is why we look at let me start with where you

things in a very granular way and governors should be doing believe the state of new jersey the same, because there are is right now and how far away areas of every state that are you think you are from phase much more stable and much more one, incremental reopening of spared this epidemic than other areas of states. >> are you concerned, though, the economy. >> chuck, good to be with you. that if you have already four you're absolutely right. states not following the guidelines that you laid out, and we have suffered an more states appear to be ready extraordinary toll and loss of to possibly do that as well? life. i think best understanding the data right now is that we're still a number of weeks away. we end up losing all of the the fatalities continue to be ground that we have gained over the last six weeks? significant each and every day. >> i've had really very good our positive test curve has flattened, and that's a good conversations with a series of thing. governors and they have really more importantly, hospitalizations have started to been very inciteful of how they come down. icu and ventilator use down a are looking at this. little bit. those are good signs. they understand the risk and they talk about this not as but we're not out of the woods turning on a light switch, but yet. i think we're several weeks slowly turning up the dimmer, away, and the big mantra, and our state has done a good job of very slowly, and each -- that's this, i have to say, i give a why these are in phases and each shoutd out to our residents, the phase carries a very specific mandate to stay home and stay away from each other is still piece. to all of the american people, very much in effect until we can

please read those phases, break the back of this curve. because it was very clear that if you have preexisting >> have you decided if you're going to have a -- have a conditions or you're the elderly with preexisting conditions and state-wide order that will have risk factors, we strongly essentially govern everybody the same or do you think you're recommended that you continue to going to cordon off, you have shelter in place. and continue to be protected and south jersey, you have the jersey shore that may have one continue to follow all of the set of timelines and reopening, guidelines. and anybody that you interact and of course, northern new jersey with another. with ensure that they are also following the guidelines very what path do you imagine taking carefully. on a reopening? >> now that actually gets me to my next topic with you and that >> yeah, you're absolutely is the issue of testing. right. the metro new york counties up instead of me asking the question, i'd like to get you to in our northeast part of the state have been crushed. respond to bill gates. here is what he said to a but it's important to note that colleague of mine yesterday on the testing issue. we've got positive test results in each of our 21 counties. >> of all the things i'm most sadly, we have fatalities in surprised about the federal each of our 21 counties. government response, the so while we haven't made that unwillingness to get involved in decision, we have as a health care matter, a month or six test prioritization is the most weeks ago, separated the state into regions, north, central, maesing. 3 million people in testing and south. that has proven to be effective. capacity is under 200,000 a day. we just opened up with the army >> i know you've had your own -- corps a field medical station in

you've worked with the gates atlantic city in the south last foundation in the past, so i week. should set that aside there a so i suspect, chuck, while we second. how would you respond to him? haven't made a decision on that, we're going to move as one >> i think he's very -- there is state, recognizing you've got density issues in the north that a piece of us that have worked you just don't have in the together to do two things and i south. think what is really important >> you're going to be needing is for the american public to some money from the federal government. understand how we are doing it looks like it's going to be these tests right now. probably a little bit of a back and forth inside of congress. uniquely we are using -- acid if you don't get a federal testing. that means you're sampling for bailout or federal reimbursement the live virus in people's nose or in people's throats. money, what are the first then you have to expand that services do you think you would doing what we call neclayic acid have to start cutting back on if the federal government either testing so not like a flu test limited or didn't give you some or a strep test. when we talk to the commercial money to deal with this pandemic? companies almost seven weeks >> yeah, i mean, let me say ago, eight weeks ago, we asked this. we had constructive conversations and exchanges, and every single corporation and we're on with the white house every single diagnostic company that had nuclayic acid testing morning, noon, and night on health care, on testing, on capacity on their platforms financial matters. which is primary hiv and hpv, i have to reiterate what senator and makes tests for those mcconnell said about letting platforms, and in less than two states go bankrupt is to three weeks, every single one of these platforms are up and irresponsible and not factual. running. do your question, we won't go

now, what we did with the bankrupt, but we'll gut the states -- and i think what mr. living day lights out of gates points out very clearly -- educators, first responders, the is what did we do with the states to ensure that we have folks we desperately need. identified all of those platforms? and you know over a week ago, we we need states to be fully sent out to states every single funded at the point of attack, being there for our residents, platform where it was located, so we need a big slug. not just new jersey. over 5,000 platforms across the there's a bill senator menendez states and showing and senator cassidy, bipartisan, geographically and by zip code where they are located. that is allowing us to work have sponsored for $500 billion. closely with the states, to unlock that full potential, and that's ordered. >> governor, one of the to prioritize states are challenges i feel will be unique to you and governor cuomo is outbreaks and to do active this issue of when manhattan can open up. surveillance. we talked about asymptomatic and when, as somebody pointed surveillance to find cases out to me, you might be able to before people have symptoms and what we are doing right now with every single state. >> look. create office space that is the debate about testing -- i know the president gets socially distanced. defensive and claims the testing you can phase people in, but how has been a success story. do you get on the new jersey what it does feel as if there is trains with social distancing a hess tans to use the defense and run enough trains to make it work. how do you get on the subway and production act whether it's still have social distancing?

swabs, whether it's getting this mass transportation issue reagents or whether it's forcing in the age of social distancing, the labs to process things do you have an idea yet of how faster, guaranteeing some you're going to tackle this? funding for it. >> i don't have a crisp one-word why the hesitancy inside that answer, but the next normal is task force? going to be a new normal and a different normal than we had in >> i think all of those pieces the past, without question. are discussed with inside the task force, from generation of and chuck, it's part of the swabs to generation of tubes and reason why we have formed a the media. regional council with six other i think what people don't see behind the scenes is how fda states and most importantly our neighbors, in particular, new have worked with corporations to york in this case. really change the number of swabs that can be utilized. we got to figure this stuff out if you remember, just four weeks together. governor cuomo and i and others of our neighbors worked very ago, we were recommending these closely together as we shut things down. nasal swabs and we have moved to we have got to do the exact same thing as we reopen, and mass multiple different swabs and transit, commuting generally, multiple different extraction what does a workplace look like, media. the intent is scale with the what are the new norms going to states and to continue to scale be? clearly, testing, as you testing but, at the same time, we have to realize that we have discussed with dr. birx. to have a breakthrouinnovation these are all elements we ned to deal with, not just within our state, but we have to deal with our regional partners and none more important for us than new york city and new york state. detact the live virus or the >> well, look, that's just one

live particles its and to move of many things that are going to be a challenge, i think, in the into antigen testing. next months and perhaps years. i know diagnostics are work on governor murphy, thanks for that now. spending a few minutes with us. we have to have a breakthrough. democratic governor from new this rna testing will carry us jersey, and sharing your views. certainly through the spring and summer, but we need to have a i appreciate it. >> thanks for have meeg, chuck. huge technology break through >> and joining me now is and we are working on that at dr. michael osterholm, the the same time. director of the center for >> so essentially what you're infectious disease research and saying is we don't have -- you policy at the university of don't think we have the capacity minnesota. and i want to begin, to ramp up the testing you would dr. osterholm, with you to like because we need -- we respond to something dr. birx basically need a breakthrough for easier testing? said earlier on the show. she essentially seemed to imply that we can't ramp up testing as >> i think we have other technology that we think can we know it and that the only way we're going to solve our testing come online within the next two or three weeks that will be a problem is with essentially a breakthrough in the rna type testing, but i think also just breakthrough. is she right? is that throwing in the towel on for ease of use, finding out how testing too early? we can do antigen type testing >> well, she's partially right, like they do with flu and can be used as a screening test and but let's be really clear. then you can do the actual rna there are three major problems with testing right now. testing for a confirmatory test one, we don't have the reagents. and it allows you to screen our governor is not working with private sector companies as all large number of individuals the other governments of the

world are seeking testing to quickly. >> the vice president on friday best ramp up the reagents we do said that by the need. number two is we have the wild, wild west for testing. the fda has all but given up its oversight responsibility for tests we have on the market. many are nothing short of a disaster, and we got into that place because of had fact once cdc had a problem, the fda just opened the gate, and we have a lot of bad tests on the market right now. the third thing is these tests just don't perform well in low prevalent populations meaning that right now, if you were to test for antibody in most places in the united states, over half the tests would be false positives. so what we need is a major new initiative on testing that gets away from every day just saying how many people got tests. we're misses the mark in a big way right now. >> is this, given what we have now, i mean, it sounds like -- does the federal government, does the president need to use this defense production act in order to force these private companies to make these

reagents? >> well, that's part of the answer, but remember, the whole world wants these reagents right now, not just the united states. so we're competing against the world. what we haven't done is really just been clear with the public or with in many cases the people who are making these tests what we want. you know, there's far too much happy talk, not enough what do we need, what is it going to take to get us there and how are we going do it, so even today, it's all about excuses about what we're doing for testing or not. where is our strategic plan that lays out why we're going to use the test, how we're going to use the test, when will it be available, and we don't have that. >> lay out the next 12 months. you have been basically a reality check for a lot of us over the last couple weeks. on as you just called it, happy talk. so vice president pence said this is going to be behind us largely by memorial day. my initial instinct was, memorial day 2021 or 2020? what is your instinct?

>> well, first of all, let's just take the numbers. at most, 5% to 15% of the united states has been infected to date, with all the experience we had so far, this virus is going to keep transmitting. it's going to keep trying to find humans to do what it does, until we get at least 60% or 70% of the people infected. that's what it will take to get herd immunity. we're in the very earliest days of this situation right now. you know, if i could just briefly say one story here. right after 9/11, i spent a number of days up at your studios doing filming around the issue of what was happening. and your -- the predecessor here, the late tim rustert used to say to me all the time, hi, doc. how you doing? is the big one here yet? i would always say, no, tim, it's not. if he would ask me is the big one here, is it coming? i would say this is the big one and it's going to be here for 16 to 18 months. people don't get that yet. we're just on the very first stages. when i hear new york talk about

they're now on the back side of the mountain, i know they have been through hell, and that's an important statement. but they have to understand, that's not the mountain. that's the foothills. they have mountains to go yet. we have a lot of people to get infected before this is over. >> vaccine or herd immunity, what's more likely? >> well, herd immunity is clearly going to happen if we don't have a vaccine. i do think that we have a better chance of a vaccine than some. the statement that came out yesterday from the world health organization suggested there might not be immunity was misinterpreted to mean we don't have evidence that you're protected from humans, but we have monkeys that have been infected infengzaltentionally a had a new study that showed vaccine protected them. i think we'll have it, i just don't think it will be soon. we're on virus time now, not human time. what we can get done in the next 16 to 18 month, great, but if we don't, we won't have a vaccine in time to protect most of the

people in the world. >> dr. osterholm, thank you for coming on and giving us your expertise, and frankly, a bit of a timeline reality check. >> when we come back, president trump says the u.s. response to the coronavirus pandemic is the envy of the world. is it? the panel is next. >> and as we go to break, if there's a good thing about this economic crisis, it's been the clean air and views we haven't seen for a long time. take a look. there are times when our need to connect really matters. to keep customers and employees in the know. to keep business moving. comcast business is prepared for times like these. powered by the nation's largest gig-speed network. to help give you the speed, reliability, and security you need. tools to manage your business from any device, anywhere. and a team of experts - here for you 24/7. we've always believed in the power of working together. that's why, when every connection counts... you can count on us.

welcome back. the panel is with us from their remote locations. nbc news chief foreign affairs

correspondent andrea mitchell, pulmonologist vin gupta, and nbc news senior business correspondent stephanie ruhle. as you can see here, guys, i want to basically hit three big things here on the government's response on the economics, on health, and on politics. as of this morning, more than 53,000 americans have died. less than 2% of the population has been tested and even the trillions congress has approved isn't nearly enough and often isn't getting to the people who need it. andrea mitchell, i want to start with the political response collectively. there's the president and then there's everyone else. and i don't know how much of it you believe the president is sort of coloring the atmosphere which is why it looks like congress is slow off the mark here or we're just got to be prepared for a polarized congress going forward. >> well, i think the president is going his own way with misinformation, with those daily briefings, which we now are told he's suspending.

he's finally backing off i'll believe it when i see it after this weekend as to whether he resumes because he so needs to fill his own demand, his need for self-congratulation, really, and to show what he believes is leadership, that we have seen dangerous, toxic advice coming from the white house, and unfortunately, i think the credibility of the scientists really now is on the line. they have to decide whether to stay inside and be valuable or whether or not they have to see another alternative, like jim mattis, and quit, because when dr. birx said to you today that sunlight does kill the virus, she is perpetuating an unscientific, untested, single study presented by a nonscientist from the department of homeland security, which led to the president, as she put it, not fully digesting the data. she needed to be very clear on disavowing it, and to this point, she still has not been

even this morning. >> dr. gupta, are you worried that dr. birx is letting her credibility get sort of sucked into the trump vortex? >> i really admire dr. birx, and yeah, i have to say that whether it was not pushing back strongly enough on georgia's willingness to liberalize social distancing and especially when it came to tattoo parlors. i can understand if we want to liberalize the notion of how we think about what is essential and nonessential, to what is safe and not safe, but to not push back on two parlors and that policy by the georgia governor to me was the start of a pattern. so i do think, as somebody who admires her and her history in public health, in our armed forces, it does appear that there's some degree of filter on what she says, and she is minding her words, instead of,

as andrea says, coming out and saying the truth and just being direct about it. >> i want to stay with you here a second, dr. gupta, and ask you about the testing comments that she made. that really struck me as one of the headlines out of the interview, when she basically acknowledged maybe the wrong word because there may be disputes about this, but essentially saying the current situation we're not going to be able to ramp up testing under the current situation. do you concur with her on that or do you think that's sort of just they're trying to come up with an explanation to follow the policy the president wants? >> i think she's right, actually. we need outside the box thinking, so she's spot on. under the current situation, dr. osterholm beautifully laid it out, that right now, every new technology that the fda is putting out there, largely, is constrained by the same supply chain bottlenecks that chuck, you and i have talked endlessly about. swabs, reagents, you said it, laid it out. that's why we need more of a

focus on interesting new creative outside the box thinking. innovations like the rutgers scientist on saliva. by definition, circumnavigating the supply chain bottlenecks. you spit in a tube, you could mail it to a lab if you do it at home. that's not far off. the way we're thinking about it, the inside the box, constrained thinking, yes, i think she's correct. >> stephanie ruhle, i want to move to the economy here. and we saw the sort of what some said is an additional amount of money, and look, half a trillion dollars is not chump change. but considering where we are, do you think it's sustainable for congress to look at this sector by sector when they come up with bailouts or this idea that a few members of congress have of covering all payrolls for a while, is that going to end up being the path we have to go down? >> we're getting closer and closer to that idea, chuck,

because if this is a natural disaster, an act of god, and congress wants to say let's put a bear hug around the economy, because we have asked the country to basically shut down, then they're going to have to find a different mechanism to support all businesses, because right now, as you mentioned it, yes, the cares act is adding an additional over $500 billion, but you know it's not reaching every business. the head of the small business association says every hour another small business is closing. and even though there may be pent-up demand and everybody wants to get back out there and get to work, it's not going to work that way. we're a consumer-based economy. people aren't rushing back to the store. >> and stephanie, the issue of sector by second tor, i have be thinking about the politics of bailing out oil companies or the politics of bailing out casinos or the politics of bailing out athletics, for instance, and it can look bad politically, but

there a whole bunch of jobs connected to that. how do you avoid that political winners and losers unless you cover everybody's payroll the same way? >> unfortunately, you don't. and those who are the have nots are going to be the ones who are furious that they're left out. we know from bill gates and a number of others, this is disproportionately hurting the poorest or those who don't have big lobbying efforts. so yes, you can see big oil demanding, saying we ned to call this an account of god, you need to protect us or the cruise industry, but i promise you, small restaurants and barbershops don't have that. so even if we're saying, well, the small business effort is to help those small businesses, there are 30 million small businesses in this country. and the first round of small business help only got 1.7 million loans out there. it certainly didn't reach everyone. pretty clear that we're going -- that to turn into who do you trust to

handle the pandemic recovery here? but we may not be through the health crisis at the same time. it's really going to complicate our politics. >> absolutely. and it is already who do you trust. we see it in the polling, that people, most people in our poll and other polls, don't want to reopen as rapidly as the president and some supporters, what could be a new emerging tea party movement are pressing, but i think the american people are going to be very afraid. this economy, according to kevin hassett, who has come back into the administration as a top economist, people are going to see that it's not going to flip back on. it is going to be slow and in phases. and very concerned also that the president, what he did with west point, for instance, showing that he needs to go to west sin just because he saw mike pence going to the air force economy. west point wasn't prepared to announce they were bringing all those cadets back. that's the kind of thing we have

to be really worried about. >> where the president is worried about the president first anyway. thank you all three of you. >> when we come back, we'll take a close look at how some counties that may determine the 2020 presidential election are faring during the pandemic. but first, going around the country to say i do through a face mask. >but first, going aro country to say i do through a face mask. >but first, going aro country to say i do through a face mask. >but first, going arot to be most successful, connectivity is vital. verizon, really for us, has been a partner for years.

allows us to stay connected to our 80 plus locations across the country. we use verizon throughout our entire day. it's an integral part of how our practice runs. we need our project managers and our superintendents to be able to communicate. we don't have to be together to work together. (vo) at verizon, we're here, and we're ready. we're open 24/7 online with tools and support to help your business stay connected at verizon.com/ready. we turn to the most certain thing there is. science. science can overcome diseases. create cures. and yes, beat pandemics. it has before. it will again. because when it's faced with a new opponent, it doesn't back down - it revs up. asking questions 'til it finds what it's looking for. that's the power of science. so we're taking our science and unleashing it. our research, experts and resources.

all in an effort to advance potential therapies and vaccines. other companies and academic institutions are doing the same. the entire global scientific community is working together to beat this thing. and we're using science to help make it happen. because when science wins, we all win. welcome back. data download time. a good time to check in on the five battleground state counties we're watching in our county-to-county project to see how they're faring in the coronavirus pandemic. first, maricopa county, arizona, home to phoenix. as of friday, there were over thro31 confirmed cases. that may sound like a lot, but on a per capita basis, the county is doing well, much

better than the national average. that could be because it's a sprawling jurisdiction where social distancing is easier to achieve. compare that with kent county, mish mis, home to grand rapids, one we're looking for how establishmentro republicans may feel about the 2020 matchup. it's closer to the per capita average. perhaps most striking in kent is the unemployment rate. it's jumped from 2.4% to 16% in two months. the rate of cases per capita goes up more when we look at beaver county, pennsylvania, near pittsburgh. 337 cases, 47 decaths. a jump in cases there came from nursing homes which we have seen in other aging blue-collar counties. milwaukee county has been particularly hard hit. as of friday, there have been roughly 2400 confirmed cases and 154 deaths. very close to the national average per rate of infection. finally, miami-dade county in florida, the hardest hit. the largest number of cases and

deaths of our group and it has the highest rate of infection, well over the national average. this election may well hinge on president trump's response to the covid-19 crisis. and how these counties respond themselves may tell us a lot about which way they tilt in november. november. >> when we come back,

step by step, we're going to figure this out. we're gonna find a way through this. we're working really, really hard in hospitals, our nurses, our techs, all the docs. it's about staggering when people get sick so that the hospitals can cope. we're gonna go through an awful lot of these. all across puget sound, people have been stepping up and donating personal protective equipment. we stay at work. for you. you stay at home for us.

just know we're all with you. thank you, thank you so much. thank you doctors & nurses.

you may not be thinking about blood donation, but blood is needed to save the lives of people who are sick with a range of illnesses. it's easy and safe to give. if you are in good health, please donate. we need heroes now. visit red cross blood dot org to schedule an appointment.

welcome back. stacey abrams became a national figure when she lost the georgia governor's race to brian kemp in 2018 by just over a percentage point. though she never conceded amid charges of republican-led voter suppression. abrams is high on a list of women joe biden is considering as his running mate and she's been unusually candid in openly promoting herself for the role. she's also created the organization "fair fight" to combat voter suppression around the country.

stacey abrams joins me live from atlanta. stacey abrams, welcome back to "meet the press." let me just start with the situation in georgia right now. it's very possible you could be governor right now, making these decisions about when to reopen. do you believe any businesses right now are ready to reopen in the state of georgia? >> i think that reopening business until we have increased our testing and decreased our infection rate is wrong-headed. there's no logic to it. it defies the science that we know. and it ignores the fact that georgia has the 14th highest infection rate and the seventh slowest testing rate. those businesses that are being promoted for opening are the businesses that require contact, nail salons, hair dressing, tattoos. these are not places that need to be open. we need to be focusing on our front line workers who are in essential businesses making sure we're testing those who need the help and then move to reopen when we're ready. >> you have called this decision by governor kemp a political decision. i'm just curious how you think

this benefits him politically. he's taking grief from the president. you and the president are on the same side on this one when it comes to the speed of reopening georgia. it doesn't look like it's benefitting him politically, but what's your take on it? >> well, i give donald trump zero credit for backing away from this because he incited it with his liberation of the states narrative. i think brian kemp was responding to that call and decided to wrong-headedly move forward, and unfortunately as a result, he found himself cross ways with mike pence nodding pathetically at the same time about ingesting clorox as the president gave more false information to the public, but i think all three of these men have miss served the georgia and the country.

>> how would you launch a national testing strategy if you were running the federal government right now? >> i think what congress has put in place, the investment in testing equipment, and funding for our frontline workers, especially for our hospitals, is critical, but i would also be encouraging states like georgia and the other southern states and midwestern states that have refused to expand medicaid to do so immediately. part of testing is making sure people trust that they can go and be tested. and right now, there's inadequate equipment and inadequate strategy. we should increase production. we should make certain it's not simply the testing that's available but the mechanics, the swabs, the vials, and that we're funding people on the front lines to do this work to put themselves in harm's way to make sure we can test, trace, and track. >> i'm going to ask you the vp question. i have been interested in watching you, your answer on this question has evolved over the last year. you started with giving the very sort of careful answers, number one, i don't believe you run for second place. then you said a few months later, i would be honored to be considered. then earlier this week, you made the case that you would be an excellent running mate. do you believe you would be the best running mate joe biden could find? >> joe biden is going to be the

president of the united states, and he and his team are going to decide who should be his running mate. he's been very clear that he wants someone that he is compatible with, someone with the skills and the capacity to help him lead and help us recover from four years of incompetence and chaos. and i think a president joe biden will know the kind of team he needs. i am the daughter of two ministers. i was raised to tell the truth. so when i'm asked a question, i answer it as directly and honestly as i can. as a young black girl growing up in mississippi, i learned if i didn't speak up for myself, no one else would. my mission is to say outloud if i'm asked the question, yes, i would by willing to serve, but i know there's a process that will be played out that joe biden is going to put together the best team possible, and i believe that he will pick the person he needs. >> do you worry that no matter how qualified you are on paper, that the perception you have not run a large organization as executive office holder or have

not won state-wide is a knock against you? >> for the last year and a half, i have run three national organizations, including fair fight 2020, which is in 18 states, protecting the right to vote. i have been traveling the country promoting a census that is accurate and that helps us prepare for the next pandemic and for redistricting. and i have been working to make certain that poor families, especially those in the south, but around the country, have the services they need. i believe in doing the work. i have been doing it since the day i did not become governor i do so at a national level because while i understand i may be grounded in georgia and a daughter of the south, my responsibility is to do the work to make sure all of our communities are healthy and safe and able to participate in our democracy. >> would it be a mistake if joe biden didn't pick a woman of color to be his running mate? >> i think a president biden will do what he has always done, which is respect and value communities of color. i think he understands that black communities and people of color are vital to the success of the democratic party.

and i think he's going to pick the right person. i, of course, think a woman of color can bring certain attributes. we have to lift up marginalized communities, communities that do not trust that they will be served because they have been the hardest hit by this pandemic. in the state of georgia alone, while we're only 32% of the population, african-americans comprise 54% of the deaths. so, yes, having a woman of color on the ticket will help to promote not only diversity but trust. but i trust joe biden to pick the person he thinks is the right running mate for him. >> stacey abrams, democrat from georgia, practicing your version of staying healthy, social distancing from your house, from my house to your house, thank you for coming on and sharing your views. much appreciated. >> thank you. take care. that's all for today. thank you for watching. and as always, stay safe, and we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

it's monday april 27th and we're being warned that social distancing will last through the summer as many states begin to ease restrictions on local businesses starting today the white house works to set the record straight on coronavirus guidelines as members of the task force hit the sunday shows and president trump takes to the twittersphere. then to the millions of missed milestones, from graduations to proms and everything in between. how to talk to your teens as we kick off our monday. "early today" starts right now and good morning to you. i'm cori coffin. >> and i'm phillip mena. with summer just a few weeks