this sunday, reopening america. >> now i want it open, and we're going to open. >> as the number of new cases levels off -- >> i feel great! i feel like it's almost back to normal. bring it on! >> and nearly 40 million now newly unemployed -- >> i'm trying to earn a living. i'm trying to work. >> an eager america slowly welcomes some return to normalcy. >> i couldn't wait. i saw , i'm going to go. >> even amid concerns over op ask everyone to hold off on any kinds of parties or large gatherings. plus, new hope for a vaccine. >> we hope, if everything goes to plan, that we could have a vaccine by early next year.

>> our studies show theoretically that there is natural protective immunity to this virus. >> at issue this morning, can we open quickly and safely? and how soon could a vaccine be available? i'll talk to governor mike dewine of ohio and vaccine specialist dan barouch of harvard and peter hotez of baylor. plus, new protests in hong kong as china announces a further crackdown on the territory. does beijing hope the world won't notice amid the coronavirus pandemic? this morning, i'll talk to national security adviser robert o'brien. also, the fallout from this comment from joe biden -- >> and if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or trump, then you ain't black. >> joining me for insight and analysis, nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell, former homeland security jeh johnson, and o. kay henderson, news director of the radio iowa network. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press" and our continuing coverage of the

coronavirus pandemic. >> announcer: from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press with chuck todd." good sunday morning on what is one of the more unusual memorial day weekends we've ever had. this traditionally the time we celebrate the unofficial start of summer. but this year we're also mashrkg the unofficial reopening of the country. the pent-up demand to get out of houses, apartments, and suffocating routines sent some americans pouring on to beaches and boardwalks, pools and picnics, into their cars. even as our trust in everything from the cdc to the w.h.o. to the president is sinking, and in some cases, sinking fast. and on a weekend when americans traditionally show the flag to remember those who died defending it, it's being flown at half-staff to remember those who have died from this virus. as of this morning, there are more than 1.6 million confirmed cases of covid-19 in the united states with the confirmed death toll approaching 100,000.

and this here is the astonishing front page of "the new york times," naming 1,000 people, just 1% of the nearly 100,000 dead on that front page. our eagerness to return to normal is tempered by this question -- is it safe? polls out this week showed that 54% of those questioned say they're concerned that lifting restrictions will lead to more infections, compared with just 16% who said they're not concerned. at the same time, there's an unprecedented worldwide sprint to produce a vaccine in just a few months, an effort that would normally take years and still might. until then, we're going to have to learn to live with the virus as we balance our personal safety with a desire to return to some degree of normalcy. >> a whole different memorial day, a whole different world, really, that we're in. >> on a weekend traditionally devoted to honoring the wartime dead, americans are struggling to make sense of a death toll that's climbed to nearly 100,000 over just three months.

>> what would you have done differently facing this crisis? >> well, nothing. >> reporter: all 50 states are experimenting with easing restrictions in some form as the holiday weekend tests how committed americans are to containing the virus. >> i want you to have a great time, but continue using caution. >> go out. wear a mask. stay six feet away from anyone. >> you can be outside. you can play golf. you can play tennis with marked balls. >> reporter: two studies tracking cell phone data have warning signs. researchers from imperial college in london find the virus may still be spreading at epidemic rates in at least 24 states, particularly in the south and midwest. another model from the policylab at children's hospital of philadelphia also identifies new hotspots in houston and dallas, alabama, tennessee, and south florida, among others. >> if you're from montgomery and you need an icu bed, you're in trouble. >> reporter: but instead of focusing on mitigation and

improving testing capacity in those states, president trump spent much of the week on a series of distractions. on monday, he taking the antimalaria drug hydroxychloroquine. a new study links the drug to increased risk of death and heart arrhythmia in covid patients. >> i happen to be taking it. i happen to be taking it. >> hydroxychloroquine? >> i'm taking it. >> reporter: on tuesday, he retweeted criticism of christopher ray, the fbi director he appointed. >> the russian thing was a made-up, fabricated story. >> reporter: on wednesday, he threatened to withhold funds from states if they expanded access to voting by mail. >> i think just common sense would tell you that it's massive manipulation can take place, massive. >> reporter: in fact, fraud via mail-in ballots is rare. president trump voted by mail in the florida primary in march. on thursday, he defied the michigan governor's executive order by taking off his mask while touring a ford plant which

requires them. >> i wore one in this back area, but i didn't want to give the press the pleasure of seeing it. >> reporter: on friday, after a fox news poll showed him trailing joe biden by eight points, he tweeted, "fox news should fire their fake pollster." and through it all, he is pointing fingers and placing blame. >> it came in from china, and it should have been stopped in china. and when i came here and you people knew it better than anybody, our military was depleted, just like the shelves were empty from medical equipment. we didn't have ventilators. we didn't have testing. we didn't have anything. >> joining me now are two experts to talk about this quest for a vaccine. from houston, we have dr. peter hotez. he's the director of the texas children's hospital center for vaccine development. and from boston, we have dr. dan barouch, director of the center for virology and vaccine research at the beth israel deaconess medical center. gentlemen, welcome to both of you. dr. barouch, i just want to get you to react to something this morning.

the fda had dr. stephen hahn at 6:30 this morning, tweeted the following -- "with the country starting to open up this holiday weekend, i again remind everyone that the coronavirus is not yet contained. it is up to every individual to protect themselves and their community. social distancing, hand-washing and wearing masks protect us all." it's just interesting, dr. barouch, to see one of the administration's scientists, health experts, feeling the need to continue to remind the public of this. do you think the public is as informed about this risk this weekend as they should be? >> i think the public is very well informed, and there is a tension between the need to contain the virus and people's desire to get out of their houses. so, the hope is that through public health measures as well as eventually the development of a vaccine, that we will be able to contain this virus.

>> let's talk about this race for a vaccine. dr. barouch, i want to start with you on this. we keep hearing this timeline of 12 to 18 months. is that the heart or the head speaking? >> the development of a vaccine traditionally is a very long process. often it takes many years, even decades, for a new pathogen for which the human race has not seen before. so, the attempt to develop a vaccine in 12 to 18 months, or potentially even less than that, is truly unprecedented. and to be successful, multiple parameters will have to be successful all at the same time. so, i believe that it is theoretically possible. however, it is certainly not guaranteed. and if that were to be the case, then many, many things would have to go perfectly the first time. >> dr. peter hotez, you've been on the forefront of researching

a vaccine for sars. and let me ask you this. on one hand, that research may help expedite this vaccine. on the other hand, we still don't have one for sars. what should that tell us? >> well, thanks for having me. you know, we spent a decade researching developing vaccines for sars, as you point out. and the quick answer was that if you can elicit high levels of a certain type of antibody known as neutralizing antibody, which blocks the virus from attaching to its receptor, you can make a vaccine. and we've been able to achieve that in the laboratory in experimental animals. and what i loved this week was dan barouch wrote this absolutely beautiful paper in "science" magazine, more or less coming to the same conclusion about sars 2, the cause of covid-19. so, that tells me that the technical challenge of developing a covid-19 vaccine is not that daunting. it's kind of straightforward question that involves some

old-school virology, very established attempts at making a vaccine. so i'm confident that we're going to have a vaccine, or as dr. fauci often says, cautiously optimistic. >> right. >> the problem is it does take accumulate enough safety gingand data to show that it to be the hard part. it's not a manufacturing problem. it's going to take us time to actually show that this will be both safe and effective. and i doubt we'll have that within a few months. >> and i'm curious, dr. hotez, what's the likelihood that it's going to be 100% effective, first vaccine? is it more likely that we're going to have an experience like we have with the flu shot, which at, you know, in some years, at best, it's 50% protector from that year's flu virus? >> yeah, it's quite possible. you know, what we're seeing from some vaccines is that they're partially protective, meaning they don't protect 100%, but they may reduce hospitalization

and death, which is still very important. the point is, the first vaccines released out of the starting gate, i'd say a year from now or a year and a half from now, may not be the ones we wind up with. history tells us that they get replaced with new-and-improved vaccines. so, this is a gradual process. it's not like there's going to be a magic bullet a year from now. it will take time. we will see new-and-improved vaccines. but things will get better. >> reporter: >> dr. barouch, how concerned in the public should we be that some pharmaceutical companies -- let's look at moderna, for instance -- they announced what looked like a breakthrough. their stock price surges. people on the company seem to get reach off of it. they look to even raise more money after that. and i understand the way the pharmaceutical business works in some cases, and maybe this was necessary to get the money for the research. but does that impact the

public's credibility into this vaccine research? >> there actually has been quite a number ofe front this week. moderna's announcement of safety and at least early i ei data in their data as well as the same in another vaccine from china and our studies in the animal models all are pointing towards increased optimism that a vaccine is likely going to be possible. however, there are many steps that remain. >> all right, but to follow up on that question, i hear you, the good news. are you worried, though, that when the accompanying stories are about how -- and this has made them a whole bunch of money, and it looks like in some cases they want to use that hype to raise more money -- that it looks like someone researching a vaccine is more interested in a profit margin? >> well, i think it's always

better to have data available to the scientific community at the time of an announcement. and so, we hope that the data from the moderna studies will be available soon. and i hear that they are preparing for that. >> dr. "operation warp speed." dr. fauxplain to our viewers wh phrase in particular concerns you. >> well, what i'm concerned about, chuck, is you know, we have got very aggressive antivaccine movement out there. and you know, their central tenants are, one, that vaccines cause autism, and i've spent a lot of my life refuting that. because i'm a vaccine scientist, the parent of an adult daughter with autism and wrote this book "vaccines did not cause rachel's autism," which has made me public enemy number one with the antivaccine movement. but the other thing they allege is that, one, vaccines are not adequately tested for safety, that we rush vaccines, and that there is this cozy relationship

between the pharma companies and the u.s. government. and so, everything that's been happening with some of the things moderna's been doing and others, you know, plays right into, you know, all of the assertions made by the antivaccine lobby, to the point, and the white house "operation warp speed" phraseology, which is just awful. and this is supported. reuters published a study last week saying 25% of americans probably won't take the vaccine -- won't take covid-19 vaccines, even if they're made available. and to the point i'm worried that we won't have sufficient herd immunity to achieve all of our desired effects, so that creates a lot of concerns. >> dr. barouch, you brought up the good news that we heard out of china. let me ask you this, are you concerned if china gets the vaccine first and they're sort of the quote/unquote winner here, and they're sharing it with the world? will that make -- are you concerned the public might be

leery of taking a vaccine from china?at we need is not one vaccine. the world actually needs multiple vaccines, because there are 7 billion people in the world, and we hope that the number of people who take the vaccine is greater than the 75% that dr. hotez mentioned, but still, we're talking about billions of people in the world that will need to be vaccinated. so, this is not a race to be first. this is a global cooperation in which multiple regions of the world and multiple companies need to work together to develop vaccines for a very, very large number of people. >> all right. dan barouch from boston, peter hotez in harvard -- and peter hotez from baylor, with us from houston. thank you both for sharing your expertise with our viewers. much appreciate it. have a safe memorial day weekend. joining me now is the republican governor of ohio, mike dewine.

governor, welcome back to "meet the press." >> good morning, chuck. >> i want to start with -- look, this memorial day weekend, one of the top places to go normally in your state would be cedar point. cedar point, an amusement park, not yet open. when do you think that's going to happen? and is that to you the real start that, okay, you're at a next level of reopening in the state of ohio? >> well, that would be a next level of reopening. chuck, i have no idea when cedar point will be able to open. our kids and grandkids love to go there. we would love to go there, but we're certainly not there yet. you know, if you look at our data, our replication rate is 1-1. we are now reopening. we've got to see how this reopening is going. reports i get back is it's going well. our restaurants are doing what they need to do, keeping the space. so, retail is doing the same thing. but we're not there yet as far as, you know, mass gatherings of

people. >> do you have a metric where you'll pull the emergency brake in your mind? and is that a metric you're willing to share with the public? i mean, i'm thinking about the next three weeks. we're going to find out how memorial day weekend went, probably around father's day weekend. >> well, chuck, the thing i keep talking to the people of the state of ohio is -- and by the way, they did a great job for two months keeping the distance. now we're at a different phase as we open up. and so, not only do we have to wash our hands, keep a distance, but now we're asking everyone who's out in public to wear a mask. i mean, there is a recent review done by stanford of i think 17 different studies that had been done in regard to masks, and they are very effective in stopping these droplets that we put out when we talk and when we sneeze and do other things. and so, it really is going to depend, i think, on how well all

of us do. i have great confidence in ohioans. and so, we are really promoting wearing the mask and keeping that distance as we open up the economy. we think we can do two things at once. >> you brought up the mask debate. i was going to wait until later in this interview to bring up a fellow governor in north dakota. i want to play for you what he said about the mask debate on friday. take a listen, governor. >> if someone is wearing a mask, they're not doing it to represent what political party they're in or what candidates they support. they might be doing it because they've got a 5-year-old child who's been going through cancer treatments. they might have vulnerable adults in their life who are currently have covid and they're fighting. >> for those of us that have covered american politics for so long, it was hard not to be moved by that governor's message just now, governor dewine, because it was like, how did masks become this political

dividing line? you, yourself, wanted to make it mandatory, and you decided to back off. do you wish the president would help you out here a little bit more? >> well, the governor is right. the governor is spot on. i've watched that clip a couple times. and this is not about politics. this is not about whether you're liberal or conservative, left or right, republican, democrat. we wear the mask, and it's been very clear what the studies have shown. you wear the mask not to protect yourself so much as to protect others. and this is one time when we truly are all in this together. what we do directly impacts others. and we're not saying if you're in a car, you're driving by yourself, you don't have to wear a mask. you don't have to wear a mask if you're out, you know, away from people, hiking or doing all kinds of different things, or in your own house. but when you go out and interact directly with people, we're asking ohioans to do this.

and so, it doesn't -- it's not about politics. it's not about conservative or liberal. it's about helping other people. >> is there a point that you're going to reissue your executive order, or do you feel as if the pushback you got, you're like, okay, i'll just publicly keep telling you that i think you should do it? >> well, our order does say that every employee in every business, unless there is some reason that they can't wear that mask, every employee's wearing a mask today. so that's a fundamental change in ohio. as we go out, you know, a lot of stores, you'll see 90% of the people who do have customers are wearing masks. but we want to continue to up that throughout the state, because it is really what we need as we open up the economy. look, chuck, this is a risk, but it's also a risk if we don't open up the economy. all the down sides of not opening up the economy. we can do both these things.

>> let me ask you quickly about congress and the lack of debate right now about the next round of funding, of aid, rescue money, whatever you want to call it in this case, if it's still rescue or stimulus. what does the state of ohio, what do you need in your budget from the federal government? >> well, we need from the government, the federal government, an extension of our ability to use the national guard. that's very, very helpful. we have national guard next week going out into our nursing homes. they've done a phenomenal job. more flexibility is important. look, chuck, we're processing the money now. i think congress will come up with something. and again, the flexibility for the cities and our towns, our villages, our counties as well as for the state. we have, because of the economy down and the tax revenue down, you know, we're very concerned about our ability, frankly, to

fund our schools. so, these are basic things that we need the flexibility for. >> do you think it's good policy to let a government go bankrupt if they don't have the funding you know, look, we're focused on getting the job done. we don't intend to go bankrupt in ohio. we have to balance our budget every single year and we just made $760 million worth of cuts, and we did what we have to do. and it's the same way with local government in ohio. they're going to do what they have to do. >> all right, governor diviewin republican from ohio, thank you for coming on, sharing your views. and i hope you have a safe memorial day weekend. >> thanks, chuck. >> you got it. when we come back, china, the coronavirus, and the crackdown on hong kong. i'll talk to

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welcome back. a new round of demonstrations broke out in hong kong earlier today. the crowds are protesting the chinese government's announcement of new security laws that would sharply curtail freedom in the territory and bring hong kong even further under beijing's control. many fear the move will end what has been known as one country, two systems form of government that has existed since the united kingdom surrendered control of hong kong back in 1997. so, joining me now is the president's national security adviser, ambassador robert o'brien. ambassador o'brien, welcome back to "meet the press," sir. >> thanks, chuck. great to be with you, as always. >> let me start with the hong kong issue. what is the united states government prepared to do if beijing goes through with basically this crackdown on hong kong and moves hong kong away from an open marketplace and an open democracy? >> well, as you know, chuck, the communist party of china

promised great britain back in 1984 with the sign of the british declaration that hong kong would have a degree of autonomy and would maintain their way of life through 2047. so, now 27 years before that deadline, it looks like with this national security law, they're going to basically take over hong kong. and if they do, under the 1992 hong kong policy act and the hong kong human rights and democracy act of 2019, secretary pompeo would likely be unable to certify that hong kong maintains a high degree of autonomy. and if that happens, there will be sanctions that will be imposed on hong kong and china. it's hard to see how hong kong could remain the asian financial center that it's become if china takes over. >> do you want that to be the response? if china does this, do you hope that the financial services community, that global corporations pull out of hong kong immediately? >> i just don't see how they can stay. one reason that they came to hong kong is because there was

the rule of law there, there was a free enterprise system, there was a capitalist system, there was democracy in local legislative elections. if all of those things go away, i'm not sure how the financial community can stay there. and i think you're also going to have a terrible brain drain. i think hong kong citizens, many of whom can travel under certain circumstances, can travel to the united kingdom or seek refuge other places, they're not going to stay in hong kong to be dominated by the people's republic of china and the communist party. so, i think if china goes through and imposes this law, which i think would be a big mistake, i think it's going to be very difficult for the people of hong kong. >> do you really think china is going to be nervous about sanctions and that's going to stop them at this point? it seems as if he's so nervous about the demonstrations. is a threat of sanctions enough to get china to pull back? >> well, i think what we can all be proud of are the people of hong kong have taken to the streets to show all of us who enjoy democracy and the rule of law in our countries how

precious that is. and they're out in the streets this weekend demonstrating that they want to be free people, that they want to elect their own leaders and have the right to worship as they see fit and earn a living the way they see fit. so, look, china's dependent on capital from the rest of the world, to build their economy and grow their middle class. they're dependent on liquidity in financial markets. if they lose access of that through hong kong, that's a real blow to xi jinping and the chinese communist party. so i hope they'll take that into account as they contemplate their next step. >> you know, over the last six months, when these demonstrations began, the president was in negotiations on a big trade agreement with xi and china. and during that time, he, himself, never really got tough, never stood up in support of the demonstrators. others in the administration did, but he was careful and a lot of reporting said he didn't want to upset the trade deal. did that turn out to be a mistake? >> no, i don't think it was a mistake. we want good relations with china and with the chinese people. but unfortunately, we're seeing

just action after action by the chinese communist party that makes it difficult. and with respect to the trade deal, we'll see if they live up to it, but we're dealing in a new world now with corona. they unleashed a virus on the world that's destroyed trillions of dollars in american economic wealth that we're having to spend to keep our economy alive, to keep americans afloat during this virus. so we're in a very different world. the cover-up that they did of the virus is going to go down in history along with chernobyl. we'll see an hbo special about it 10 or 15 years from now. and so, we're in a different place with china as we speak today, chuck. >> i understand that, but it's interesting you bring that up because i want to put together -- for the first three months of this year when this virus first poked its head up, the president was pretty soft when it came to pinning the blame on china. take a listen, ambassador.ed to know from china? >> i do. i do. i have a gre relionship with president xi.

president xi loves the people of china. he loves his country. and he's doing a very good job with a very, very tough situation. our relationship with china is very good. maybe it's closer because of what's happened here. it came out of china, and it's one of those things that happened. nobody's fault. >> now, that last quote was from march 14th, and the president's rhetoric has changed since then, there's no doubt. but are you concerned that that sort of soft relationship with xi, publicly praising him all the time, gave xi comfort that he could do these things in hong kong without a lot of, other than rhetorical retribution? >> no, i don't think so. and i think the thing we have to focus on with the virus and what the president did is for the first time in the oval office briefing, on the 28th of january, when i raised with the president that this was a significant national security threat, he immediately gernsion the advice of many of his other advisers, he immediately imposed a travel ban on china on the 30th, two days later.

it was a profile in courage and it was something that he was criticized for by his political opponents and by many in the media. that saved countless lives, and i think that's the thing that we have to focus on with china. now, we were hoping that china would allow cdc doctors into china. we were hoping that china would give us more information on the virus and give us some of the genetic information we needed. unfortunately, china did none of that. and so, look, we're in a very different place with china right now and the president's made that clear. but you know, the chinese didn't do what they said. we've also learned that at the time that they cracked down internally and refused to allow people from hubei and wuhan to travel throughout china, they allowed those folks to travel to europe. and a large part of the infection that came to america didn't come from china. it was when we closed off china. and i asked my fellow nsas in european countries to cut off travel, they didn't, and the virus spread to europe and then back to the u.s. china should have cut off all of the travel out of hubei and

wuhan like they did internally in china. so we've learned a lot of things and it's disconcerting, but we'll move forward. we'll defeat this thing going forward and america will come out stronger. >> should the public be reassured or concerned about this relationship with china when it comes to the vaccine? so, for instance, if china has a vaccine first and our relations are as heated as they appear to be right now, is it possible we don't see -- the world doesn't see that vaccine, we don't see that vaccine, or would you trust a vaccine out of china? >> well, we're going to get to the vaccine first. we're doing tremendous work on therapies and vaccines. and once we get them, we'll share them not only with america, but we'll share them with the world. one of the things that it won't do, though, is bring back the 90,000-plus americans, grandparents, parents, frontline health care workers, first responders who have died as a result of this virus. and we mourn with their families. our heart goes out to them. the president mourns with them and grieves with them. and we're thinking of them. so we'll get this virus under

control. we'll have vaccines. we'll have therapeutics. we're moving rapidly using american innovation. we're going to stop the chinese from hacking into our universities to steal that information. and we're going to get the vaccine and we're going to get it out to the whole world. and i think america's going to come out on top on this one, chuck. >> very quickly on the mask debate. it seems that the president is the one debating. i know one of your deputies is a big proponent of wearing a mask. are you concerned that an example isn't being set by the president? >> chuck, this is my mask that i wear at the office every day. i'm not wearing it here because the camera man's six feet away from me and you're in the studio, so we're safe. i'll put it on when we leave. but we wear the mask in the white house. and the president's wore a mask where necessary. he did so at the ford plant. but when the president's out speaking to the american people or when he's speaking and if we meet with him in the oval office, our seats are always moved six feet or so away from the resolute desk. then there are times when you don't need to wear the mask.

but i think governor dewine was spot on when he talked about office workers wearing the mask. and mask usage is going to help us get this economy reopened. and we do need to get the country reopened because we can't get left behind by china or others with respect to our economy. but look, i'm a proponent of masks. matt pottinger, who you referenced before, is a proponent of masks, and many, many people in the white house and west wing are wearing them, and we hope that's an example for other folks that when they go back to work, they'll wear masks at their offices as well. >> ambassador o'brien, i appreciate you coming on, sharing the administration's views, and i hope you have a safe memorial day weekend. >> you, too, my friend. thank you, chuck. >> you got it. when we come back, 50 states are reopened. (vo) our communities need help like never before and wells fargo employees are assisting millions of customers across america through fee waivers and payment deferrals, helping people stay in their homes through mortgage payment relief efforts

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welcome back. the panel is with us from remote locations. nbc news chief foreign affairs correspondent andrea mitchell, former homeland security secretary jeh johnson, and o. kay henderson, news director of radio iowa. and kay, i'm going to start with you, because believe it or not, of the four of us -- and i include myself -- i believe you are the only one residing in a place without many restrictions versus we're still living a lockdown life in d.c. and new york, while the rest of the country opens up. iowa's open. does it look open, kay? >> it depends where you go. there are still restrictions on restaurants, which were able to open in phases. first phase was in the 77 iowa counties where the virus activity was deemed not substantial at the beginning of the month. and then in the middle of the month, haircutting businesses

opened. and at the end of this month, last friday, the governor said that if you run a museum, a movie theater, you can open those facilities up. the one thing that is still not open in iowa, bars. she said she'll make that decision next week. the other significant thing that's happened this week in iowa is that on thursday, governor kim reynolds said that if you want a test, you can get a test. previously to that, the standards for being tested for covid-19, the diagnostic test, were either that you had to have symptoms, you had to have someone in your household who was diagnosed with covid, or you were an essential worker. it's unclear how soon everybody who wants a test can get a test because the state is still trying to ramp up to 5,000 tests a day. and as some of your viewers may know, iowa is one of three states that signed a $26 million deal with a group of businesses in utah to provide 500,000 test

kits. >> andrea mitchell, one of the things that i think is already a theme from just this show this morning is how, very gently, whether it's republican governor mike dewine, the national security adviser -- they want to make the point that, let's not politicize the mask debate. >> but the president has politicized the mask debate. the president is the one who is fighting his own medical guidelines from the cdc and others, sidelining the medical advisers. we haven't seen very much of them with the one exception of dr. birx the other night briefly, and she was in a very a.mbiguous situation at that lat briefing. so, the president is fighting his own government, and his rebellion tweets. i mean, he is the one who has made this red state/blue state, and it is really horrifying in a pandemic to be making it a political issue. it should be a medical issue, a health issue, not a political issue. >> yeah. and jeh johnson, i mean, when

the governor of north dakota was in tears over this, i sort of got it. it was very moving because you're just like, my gosh, we're politicizing everything right now. >> chuck, you're correct. it's disheartening to watch. the president, whether it's the issue of the mask or things he says in his daily briefings, it is sending the message, explicitly or implicitly, that he doesn't believe his scientists. he doesn't always believe dr. fauci, and that we need to get back to business, we need to reopen our economy. the president oo's the most vise person in america. he sets the example. he sets the standards. and a lot of people, particularly in his base, look to him for guidance on this. and so, he has the power to influence the debate. >> you know, kay, i'm curious in iowa, because if you watch this debate on social media and you watch this debate on cable news, it looks like the country's

divided 50/50 on this. the polling indicates there's not that divide. and frankly, the results of people moving around the country shows that there's a lot more caution out there than maybe we're portraying plolitically. is that what you see in iowa? >> well, one of the interesting things is at the beginning of this month, the governor encouraged churches to resume worship. and you're just now seeing the state's catholic bishops tell their parishioners that we're going to sort of phase this in, and this is how it's going to look, and we're going to practice social distancing. the vice president visited iowa in the middle of the month to talk with a group of faith leaders about how to safely resume worship in person. the other thing that has happened here in iowa is that the executive branch has a republican in reynolds, and the legislative branch in iowa is also controblreans, so there hasn't been that sort of conflict that you see in some other states. the other thing is that we had a

group of conservative lawmakers in late april who said it's time to reopen the state, and they made an argument that churches should be able to resume worshipping in person. so, those debates really haven't raged here among republicans. >> jeh johnson, i now you wanted to chime in. >> yeah. chuck, as you probably know, the governor of new jersey has asked me to think about this issue for our state here and for the region. clearly, there's no one size fits all solution to when to reopen, and we have to reopen in stages. so it's not a surprise that a majority, almost all the states are now beginning the process of reopening, but you've got to do it carefully, you've got to do it in phases, and testing and contact tracing are critical to this effort. >> andrea mitchell, very quickly, on the issue of hong kong. and i'm curious if you heard what i heard from ambassador o'brien in that, look, if they go through this, we're going to

probably organize, we're going to sanction them, we're going to do some things, but there are some things we won't do. is china going to get the message that they're probably going to get away with this? >> probably, because they see this as a national security issue. but that signal to investors, that investors should leave if they go through with these new laws, that's really a very important thing. i was there for the handover and i was there in '97 and watched all of that as we covered it. and to watch martin lee, their lead democracy advocate, being arrested earlier this month, this is really serious. i don't think that xi is going to back down. >> yeah. it looks like if hong kong may never, ever be the same from what it once was. anyway, i'm going to pause the conversation here. when we come back, some very familiar names that have already declared bankruptcy because of this virus. and as we go to break, as we do every memorial day weekend here at "meet the press," we

want to remember the american service members who died in the line of duty protecting this country since last memorial day, including two who died of the coronavirus. ♪

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welcome back. the presidential campaign poked its head up this week, suddenly almost rivaling, at least for an hour or two, the headlines on the virus, and it was all thanks to this exchange that joe biden had with "the breakfast club." take a listen. >> it's a long way until november. we've got more questions. >> you've got more questions. but i tell you, if you have a problem figuring out whether you're for me or trump, then you ain't black. >> it don't have nothing to do with trump. it has to do with the fact i want something for my community. i would love to see -- >> take a look at my record, man! i extended the voting record for 25 years. i have a record that is second to none. >> well, the comment of "you ain't black" went viral in the wrong kind of way for joe biden. and before the end of the day, he was out with an apology of sorts. take a listen to how he walked

back those comments, jeh johnson. >> i shouldn't have been such a wise guy. i shouldn't have been so cavalier in responding to what i thought was -- anyway, it was -- i don't take it for granted at all. and no one, no one should have to vote for any party based on their race, their religion, their background. >> jeh johnson, i don't know if this is one of those, i guess you view, some might view through the prism of just being generationally out of touch, the sound of a 20th-century politician. what did you hear, jeh? >> well, to his credit, joe biden recognized within minutes that he had gotten carried away. and i've watched politicians stumble with this for years now. chuck, ten years ago this month, whcretary of defense's office, bob gates. and he had a proud look on his face. he had been invited to give the commencement address at morehouse college, the only all-male hbcu in the

country, where i went to school. i said, boss, the bar for good rhetoric at morehouse is hot. this is where mlk learned how to preach. and he basically said, don't worry, i got this. and to his credit, he gave basically the exact same address he would have given at duke or at william & mary, and the students there recognized the authenticity and appreciated that, rather than talk to them as 300 black men, bob gates spoke to them as 300 intelligent americans. and the feedback i got from that was enormous. it was a good event. >> and so the lesson for joe biden on that is what? don't try to talk a culture you don't belong to? >> be yourself. just simply be yourself, whether you're joe biden, whether you're bill clinton, whether you're barack obama, or jeh johnson, just be yourself. and most people will appreciate that. most people will appreciate that you have the confidence in

yourself and your listening audience to hear what you have to say about being yourself. >> andrea mitchell, i want to put up on screen the trump campaign is already spending $1 million in digital ads, trying to take advantage of this. they're selling t-shirts with a hashtag on it. i don't know whether that is showing a trump campaign that is nimble or a trump campaign that is searching for anything to chip away at joe biden. >> they're searching for anything negative, and they are nimble and far more nimble than biden. the biden campaign was taking credit for having responded around 3:30 friday afternoon, but that interview was taped the night before. they really wasted way too much time. and the african-american biden supporters whom i had on my program at noon just lashed out about it, that no white person, no white politician, should tell any black person what it is to be black. the fact, though, is that the biden people i think correctly point out that donald trump's record on race relations is so

awful compared to joe biden's. but joe biden shouldn't be reaching back to the crime bill, where he is vulnerable, or the voting rights act. he should be talking now to african-americans, and particularly to millennial black people about what he can do for them now and talk to them about his record on the pandemic, when african-americans are among the most, you know, the most vulnerable on the front lines. >> kay henderson, there's a debate about whether biden needs to get out and campaign, or is he better off staying in the basement? what do iowa democrats want? >> well, iowa democrats are right now focused on a primary election that's happening on june 3rd. they are referring to it, even republicans, as vote-at-home absentee. iowa's secretary of state, who's a republican, sent out absentee request forms. 475,000 people have asked for them. it will set an all-time record for turnout.

democrats look to iowa's most populous county, where there's been an eight-fold increase in absentee activity. in regards to iowa being a swing state in the fall, we don't yet know what the margin will be. just remember that hillary clinton lost the state by 9.5%. trump won it by 51%. in 2018, kim reynolds won the state by 50%, but she only won by a 3% margin. >> right. now, we'll see if it is truly a swing state or not. you're right, we'll find out in the fall. jeh johnson, memorial day takes on special meaning for folks who have family members who serve or have served. i know you have someone who's serving. >> yes, thanks, chuck. memorial day weekend, we also acknowledge those who are serving today. i'd like to give a shout-out to all those in uniform of our nation day, including my son and his unit deployed overseas. son, your mother and i look forward to you coming home soon. thanks, chuck.

>> and we look forward to you having that reunion. that's all we have for today. thanks for watching. thanks for trusting us. we'll be ba next

♪ on this memorial day, crowds are gathering. packing parties on streets, on the water and on the beaches many people who have been staying home feel they can break out. could this lead to second peak >> white house implements travel ban on visitors from brazil as outbreak surges. creative ways families are making memories from home. we pause to honor america's bravest. "early today" starts right now