damian trujillo: hello, and welcome to "comunidad del valle." i'm damian trujillo. do you call yourself latinx or do you call yourself a chicana? well, the experts are on our show to talk about that the entire show on your "comunidad del valle." ♪♪♪ damian: well, latinx, i was first introduced to it a couple of years ago, and i think i'm still learning about that identity term. so, we wanted to bring in the experts to kind of educate us on the power of the use of the word "latinx," and the power of the use of the identity term "chicano" and "chicana." with me is dr. julia curry, professor at san jose state

university and also clauida zavalza with the group direct action for farmworkers. claudia zavalza: thank you, damian. damian: thank you, and before we start, i wanted to start with claudia, but let me share a story with you. i was approached by a group who wanted to celebrate the latinx commencement, and to me that was a new term, and i thought, "hey, that's a great idea. i've never heard of it. let's have you on the show." and so, as the date progressed, we're exchanging ideas and they said we're having the 19th annual latinx commencement. and i said, "wait a minute, if it's 19th annual, i've never heard of it." lo and behold, i find out that it's actually the chicano commencement that they're having, and they changed the term to latinx commencement. so, i wanted to learn more about that, claudia a. claudia, tell us about latinx, the origins of the term, when it's used, when it's not used,

and when it should be used. claudia: okay, so i'm claudia zavalza, and i'm a member of direct action for farmworkers. so, we use the x in our group to refer to campesino, because in farmworkers, in english, it's neutral, but in spanish it's not a gender-neutral language, so that's where we kind of started using that. so, i know with latinx it kind of came about from spanish. in spanish, there was a movement that started wanting to go towards gender-neutral language, and it started with the @ symbol in writing, and it was very common in writing that you would replace the masculine with the @ symbol. and then from there, it evolved into the x, so the way we would pronounce it is, like, e-s, so we would be, like, campesines or campesinx, and that's how we would pronounce it, right? and so, in spanish we would say campesino or campesina,

which would be male and female, but to be more inclusive, we started saying campesines, because that is neutral. and that's kind of the little bit of where that evolved from. a lot of feminist movements, at lot of, you know, non-binary movements, and just trying to be more inclusive of people. damian: thank you for that explanation. dr. curry, you fought for decades to be able to even use the identity term of "chicana." your reaction, that sometimes somebody might-- on a flier or on a poster saying latinx professor dr. julia curry-- dr. julia curry: well, i think i would have to start by crossing it off and saying "chicana professor." and it isn't because i don't totally understand and accept the issues raised by claudia and the issues that are incased in the term "latinx," the thing is that i subscribe to the idea of

self-determination. and that idea means that we need to be able to use the term that we wish to use for ourselves. and the fact that many, many terms have been used for mexican-americans, hispanics, latinos throughout the 19th century, or since colonization, and so it's very complex. it isn't an easy term. but you know, i want to say that when the @ sign was introduced, the arroba, or latinow, as some people say, or chicanow, it was a kind of understanding of trying to address sexism and trying to value the contributions

of women. and that was important, but i think one of the things that i've always said to people in that fight that you identify is that if we really wanna be fair, then we should all be chicanas. we should all use the feminine term, mexicanas, chicanas, campesina, why not? damian: so, i would be chicana and a campasina? dr. curry: you, too, and i'll tell you why. because we're about equity, and we want to argue that we are subscribing to being fair, then we need to understand that women do not experience fairness. our wages are lower, we continue to be harassed, we experience sexual harassment in ways that men do not. and so, it's kind of like in the movement, you know.

i remember in the '80s when we were fighting anti-immigrant sentiment, i would rise up and say, [speaking foreign language] why not? because if they were against the undocumented community, then we all had to be undocumented. let them come after us. so, in the same way, we can say yes, damian, you, too, would be referred to as chicana, because you are saying if chicanas are exploited, then i am chicana. recognize my exploitation. it's a way of uniting. but you know what? it never sailed, because no chicano wanted to be called chicana, kind of like little children. damian: i bet, i bet, you know what? we have a long time to talk about this. our time is flying, but we're gonna spend the entire half hour talking about this, because it's that important. we wanna show you some information, however, if you want to contact some of these folks.

we do have the instagram page for direct action for farmworkers, there it is on your screen. and also, dr. julia curry has a page there at san jose state's website. there is the site there on your screen. we'll be back and talk about identity on your "comunidad del valle," stay with us.

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and we use it because we do have, you know, the people that we serve do identify as different things, and we try to be inclusive. and you know, i think you're right about being equitable, that women are, you know, not paid as well, so we would be saying campesinas, but the thing is that with non-binary, there are people who don't identify as a woman or a man, they identify as something different, they're non-binary, right? so, i think that's why we try to be inclusive of it. and not everyone that i know identifies as latinx. there are people that are very specific. like you were saying, there's people that identify as chicana or chicano. there's people that identify as equadorian. you know, everyone has different identities. so, this is what we've chosen to do, latinx, because we think that's the most inclusive of all of us. but you know, it's a conversation that we're continuing to have and we're continuing to evolve,

and, really, what we wanna be doing in all of these talks is just pushing our language forward as our society pushes forward, and trying to have our language match up to progress. damian: so, am i bad for being, i don't wanna say resistant, but for the term "latinx" not really hitting me the way i guess it should be? i mean, i'm a chicano. am i bad for calling myself chicano and not latinx? julia: no, i don't think so. i think you have to think about your self-identity, and that's what it's all about. when we're talking about the terms we're using, it's not about how we wanna identify so much as how other people want to be identified. so, if someone told me, "i don't wanna be identified as latinx," i would never identify them as that. you know, i try to be always using the terms that people want to be identified as. and i do think that people can have multiple layers of identity. it's not just one term encompasses everything. and so, you can be very specific if you want to be, but you know, we use latinx when we're identifying a group of

people, but that, you know, not all farmworkers are latinx either, and you know, so that's not a term that a lot of people would use, and there's also a lot of indigenous farmworkers that don't like that term. so, it's again, we're always trying to move forward, and we're trying to identify people the way they want to be identified. it's not so much about your self-identity i don't think, you know? i do identify as chicana, i also identify as latinx. i have multiple identities. damian: because santa clara county, in the public health department issued their statement, and 25% of latinx community has been vaccinated so far, and that includes me. and you know, i think that's where a lot of us are having trouble with it, if you will. dr. curry, what would the sophia mendozas say, the jack dr. curry, what would the sopall of us?as say, dr. curry: you know, again, i thin we need to put this

in historical context, and let's go back to the 1960s when sophia mendoza, and jack brito, and caesar chavez, for that matter, or dr. galarza might have been active. and--right? one of the [speaking foreign language] chicana feminists. they lived in a time that was also undergoing identity affirmations, let's call them that. and i think that in attempting to tell the world what they wanted to be called, they were responding to a white supremacist, colonized designation of people of color as non-white in a negative sense. and by negative i don't mean not worthy but rather negative in that in the united states,

radicalization occurs in the negative presence. so, white is normative, and non-white is not. and most people of color are non-white. that's how they were classified. so, in the '60s, when people began to affirm it, but that isn't the first time either for our community. when they're beginning to affirm a political consciousness, which is like this gender based--non-binary, gender-based consciousness, they were trying to tell the world this is what we wanna be called. so, the term "chicana" and "chicano," but let's be honest as well, the term was "chicano," right, initially, and it was chicano-wide because they hadn't interrogate the heteronormative sexism patriarchy, they had not interrogated that.

so they would have used the term "chicano," even though somebody like sophia, kind of like claudia or myself, would have identified ourselves not as chicanos but as chicanas. but the normative use of the term, the o was as significant as the normative use now, at least as i'm gonna use this word in post by various groups, even our own, that latinx term. that comes about first to say, you know, we want to enlighten you, but we're gonna name you this, and there's a kind of resistance to that, that human beings, i think, have. like, for example, my name is julia curry rodriguez. and if i lived in mexico, i would be referred to as julia curry, which is what i do here.

but people often call me julie, and i quickly rise up and say, "no, i'm named from my abuela who's name was julia-- i cannot possibly be julie." and they also rise up and say, "well, curry, that must be your married name, right?" and i say, "no, it's my paternal name." there's an assumption about who we are in terms of, as claudia says, the multiple elements of our identity. and you know, some of those elements are our language, our religion, our phenotype, even, you know. i am [speaking foreign language] i am [speaking foreign language] but some of my mexicano or mexicanxes, if you wanna call them that, they're not [speaking foreign language] they're blue-eyed and white, [speaking foreign language] damian: yeah, let's carry that on the next segment

if we can. we wanna move the show along. i have four segments to do, it's all on this topic, and i wanna make sure we get to everything here. again, if you wanna get a hold of any of these leaders, community leaders, there is information on your screen. we'll be back and talk more about the term "latinx," stay--

[speaking foreign language] [speaking foreign language] [speaking foreign language] [speaking foreign language]

[speaking foreign language] [speaking foreign language] damian: we're back here on "comunidad del valle" [speaking foreign language], encouraging all of us again, the pandemic is not over. please wear your masks and socially distance, because it is still that crucial. we're talking about the term "latinx," and claudia, i know that you sense that there's a little bit of resistance here, some from myself and some from dr. curry. what do you want us to know? claudia: well, i think the one thing that it's important to understand about the x is that it's not just about one term. it's an entire, like, language, non-binary way of speaking and writing. so, you know, we were talking a lot about chicano and chicanas, it could also be chicanx, right?

and that would be non-binary, and you could still identify, and you could still feel seen, but it would be more inclusive of everyone who identifies as a chicano or chicana or a non-binary chicanx. so, i think we could just move forward in terms of, like, understanding that inclusive language. it's not just about one term, it's about an entire language being inclusive. damian: okay, and, you know, dr. curry, we had mentioned off camera that, you know, our identity has evolved over the years. you used to be a member of the mexican-american studies department, now it's known as chicano and chicana studies department. latinx is a term that is derived from within, from within our gente, whereas latino and hispanic were given to us. give us kind of a-- put a bow around this, your assessment on the fact that this is now a term that's come from within, not from without.

dr. curry: well, you know, i'm not absolutely, totally certain where it came from, so i can't-- and i believe, as far as, you know, my reading and my search, what i do know is that, again, historically there have been many terms that have arisen, let's say not imposed, but that have arisen. like, i think in the bay area, for example, it's more common to hear latina and latino. i guess now it's latinx. but if you're in texas, for example, you're tejana or tejano, or i guess maybe some of them now call themselves tejanxes. i'm not sure, so i think i just would argue, or would say, because this isn't an argument, you know, we are conscious of cultural shift

and cultural change. and it takes a long time for people to adapt to new ways of thinking. it is difficult to conceive, when you're not a scholar, when you're not somebody that is studying and dedicated to looking at terms or ways of identifying, that there's anything more than with you've grown up with, and yet we see this continuously, right? people adapt different language. so, the first use of the x among chicanas and chicanos actually was at the beginning of the word. instead of c-h, it was x, chicanas and chicanos, and that had to do with indigenous. and you know, and so just the same as we continue to havecons members not only in our community but in others.

so, you know, there's also a need to push the internal racism that is part of our reality as well. and so, you know, those are also very important. and i wanna say also that as an educator, i have never, ever, ever imposed a term on any of my students. quite the contrary. i also wouldn't castigate them. if they wish to call themselves, as they often do in my classes at jsu, [speaking foreign language] or [speaking foreign language] or mexicanos. you know, because i think it's important to allow people to say what they are, particularly in our classrooms, which are safe spaces for them to explore and to articulate terms for themselves rather than terms that are given to them.

so, there is a kind of necessity for all human beings to embrace the fact that our identities are continuously in flux and that our sense of self is also in flux. and at the end of the day, it's our search for our humanity. it's the redemption of who we are as human beings, all valuable, women, men, non-gender-binary identifying. those are all essential and necessary for us to be. what i think is also important is when we use labels, we privilege labels when we are trying to communicate with others. but that also leads to another thing, and that is that communication is difficult. and let's face it, the english language is the language of this nation.

we are a monolingual nation, despite the fact that the three of us know that that's not true. damian: well, great conversation, and we're gonna continue it briefly in our next segment. but if you want to get a hold of any of our speakers here today, we do have their websites. this is one for the direct action for farmworkers and the san jose state university website for dr. julia curry. we'll wrap it up in our next segment. stay with us here on "comunidad del valle."

damian: well, it's a fascinating conversation that we've had here today on the identity term "latinx." we're gonna leave you with some final thoughts, and claudia, we'll start with you. claudia: well, just thinking about latinx and chicana, i do identify as a chicana. i grew up in san diego in california. i was in [speaking foreign language] since i was a kid. but you know, for the lot of the people in our group, they're not mexican-american, they don't identify as chicano, they weren't part of that movement. that wasn't something that was part of their

identity formation. so i wouldn't be able to refer to them as chicanx or chicanas or chicanos, so that's why, a lot of the times, for our group, we use latinx for many of our members, because it is more inclusive of all of us in terms of our identity and gender, and also our identity politically, and, you know, ethnically. it's more inclusive for us. damian: yeah, it sounds like you're giving a voice to those who may not have had a voice in the past. dr. curry, if you can give your final thoughts in about one minute. dr. curry: okay, i want to refer to one of my mentors, elizabeth--martinez. she wrote a book called "de colores means all of us." she also wrote "the 500 years of chicano history," and then "the 500 years of chicana history." and in her book, "de colores," she tells us that she has two commitments with that book, "to remember something ancient and

to imagine something new." and she refers to the ancient as the pre-columbi and the best of our indigenous traditions. and then she refers to the young, the future, the new, as seeing that it is the youth that need to lead our way. and so, i definitely think that it is important for us to find ways to communicate, but i also think that we need to have patience and grace with everyone. damian: dr. curry, we're running out of time. thank you all so much. i appreciate it. we all learned a lot, i think, today, and thank you all for watching "comunidad del valle," we'll see you once again here next week, buenos dias. ♪♪♪ cc by aberdeen captioning 1-800-688-6621 abercap.com

tonight, america roaring back. the largest crowd since the pandemic began. 135,000 fans packing into the indy 500. in the south and west, beaches filled up, long lines at national parks. the biggest movie opening in a year and a half. the search for three gunmen who opened fire outside a concert in miami. two dead, dozens injured. >> this is a war at home. >> cities bracing for a deadly wave of gun violence this summer. the most far reaching voting restriction bill closer to becoming law in texas.