this sunday, the battle over boosters. >> we made the decision not to follow the lead, which is to just give the third dose, period. >> an fda panel says no to covid booster shots for everyone. >> it's not clear to me that the data we're seeing right now is applicable and necessary for the general population. >> but yes for those 65 and up or at risk. the split vote undercuts president biden's plan announced last month. >> eight months after your second shot, get the booster shot. >> and leaves many confused. my guests this morning, dr.

anthony fauci. plus, president trump's growing hold on the republican party. >> usa, usa. >> just a few hundred people show up in washington to support the january 6th capitol insurrectionists. it comes as a republican congressman decides running against re-election because of the former president. >> our politics has gotten so polluted that that environment for me personally is just not one that i'm willing to be a part of. >> i'll talk to republican senator bill cassidy who voted to convict at mr. trump's second impeachment trial about his party's future. another border crisis. more than 10,000 haitian migrants huddled in an unsanitary tent city at the u.s./mexico border. >> basically third world country conditions. >> that bad? >> that bad. you can't imagine. >> the u.s. planning deportation flights as early as today. joining me for insight and analysis, white house

correspondent for reuters, jeff mason, maria teresa kumar president and veo of voto latino, rich lowellry from the "national review" and anna palmer for "punchbowl news." welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. could our viet against the coronavirus turn into our latest forever war? the war we thought we were winning at the beginning of the summer has been complicated by a more resilient enemy named delta and the reluctance of millions to get vaccinated. there's been cows fooging messages from the registration regarding third shots or booster shots. president biden announced a plan to make pfizer and moderna booster shots available to most adults starting as early as this week. on friday, an fdaal panel voted

against providing boosters to americans aged 16 and over. minutes later they voted for pfizer boosters only for those over 65 and at high risk for severe covid infection. this comes amid sobering news that the seven-day average of deaths topped 2,000. though the number of cases has slowed somewhat in recent weeks, a hopeful sign that maybe the death rate with fall as well. it is arguably the most pressing issue facing this president. president biden won't be able to get his agenda passed without covid. joining me is dr. anthony fauci, national institute of allergy and infectious diseases. dr. fauci, welcome back to "meet the press." i want to begin with booster shots. would we be in this space of confusion if the president hadn't gotten ahead of the science here? >> chuck, if you look at what

happened, it wasn't getting ahead of the science. the president and the medical group at the white house said we are planning to be able to roll out boosters essentially for everyone 16 years of age and older. that was a plan that was always contingent, and every one of ups said that, contingent upon the fda's normal regulatorily process, together with their advisers, to make a decision as to exactly what that rollout would look like. that's exactly what happened. a very competent group of people who advise the fda deliberated and came to the conclusion that rather than have essentially everyone who has been boosted -- everyone who has gotten the regular immunization of two shots should be able to get boosted. they made it on the restrictions that you said, 65 years of age or older or those 18 to 64 with

underlying conditions that might make their response to infection be severe, and those who have institutional or occupational situations, would make them more risk of getting exposed and infected. that's a fair chunk of people in the united states. we look at it as one phase of the rollout. i understand why there might be confusion because i think people were not understanding the difference of planning for something and actually what element of that -- what proportion of it you're actually going to roll out. that's exactly what happened. >> so the confusion is not if about boosters, it's when. what you're saying it's inevitably we're all going to get boosters if you've been vaccinated, but maybe not in the timeline of five to eight months, maybe on the timeline of by the end of the calendar year? >> you know, chuck, i believe as a scientist who has been following it, that ultimately the real proper regimen will

turn out to be the original two shots plus a boost, but you want to do that according to what the data tells you including the risk-benefit ratio, particularly for the younger people who do not generally get as much severe disease as the elderly and others. so i believe that there's a good chance that, as we get into the coming months, into the next year, that you will see the data pointing to the benefit of having a much broader blanket of people. we don't know that for sure now, and that's the reason why data are going to continue to come to the fda and they're going to continue to evaluate it. >> if we didn't have -- if we had a more limited supply, would we even be discussing boosters? would we only be about prioritizing getting first shots in the unvaccinated? right now is a booster a luxury?

>> no, i don't think a booster is a luxury. i'll explain why in a moment. i do want to correct one thing, chuck. our highest priority still is getting the unvaccinated vaccinated. there should be no confusion about that. the highest priority is not getting boosters. we think it's important to get boosters to people, but the overwhelming highest priority is to vaccinate the unvaccinated. >> now, you were saying, though, that it's not a luxury. explain why it's not a luxury. >> well, the reason is, if it turns out that the optimal way to get durable protection for people is to give them the first two doses and then several months later, be that six, seven, eight or whatever months later, you give them a booster, that might actually mature the immune response to have a much more durable response. i don't believe it's necessarily at all a luxury.

it may ultimately turn out to be the proper regimen when we look back at it and say, looking back at this, what turned out to be the proper regimen. the reason we started with two doses -- we discussed it on the show -- we were in an emergency situation. we needed to get vaccines out to people to save lives. that doesn't mean that's the end of what this regimen should be. on a week by week, month by month basis, as we gather more data, we may get a better concept of what the proper regimen will be. >> let's talk about the definition of who is in the high risk category. that seems to be a bit subjective. i'm curious. if you're a vaccinated person in the washington, d.c. area, you've got a pretty good protection because there's a high vaccination rate. if you're a vaccinated person in

one of these sunbelt states, you don't have that same protection. are you an at-risk person if you're vaccinated, in your 40s and 50s in mississippi, for instance, but not a high-risk person here in washington? >> the way the recommendation came out, chuck, was not in the sense of geographically where you're located. it was talking about underlying conditions. they're pretty well delineated where the cdc, has categories of people who are at risk for more severe defensive cease. when you talk about the next category is people 18 to 64 who on the basis of institutional or occupational. that's what you're talking about, people who might be exposed based on what their occupation is. health care providers, people who are in essential jobs where people from the outside keep coming in, those are the types of people. it's not been said because you

live in this state versus that state. >> should it be though? >> that does not constitute that at this point. >> should it be? >> well, i think that's something -- i don't want to opine on that, chuck. i think what we need to do -- once you get from the fda what the authorization to do, that's the reason why you have the advisory committee on immunization practices that advises the cdc to fine-tune that. generally they stay well within the bounds of what the fda has authorized. there's always the capability of fine-tuning that a bit. >> this is about pfizer, not about moderna or the johnson & johnson. speak to these folks right now -- i believe you have moderna, if i'm not mistaken. what about a third dose of moderna. >> i have. >> what about a second dose of johnson & johnson? the j&j folks feel left out all the time in the media narrative.

>> understandbly feeling left out in the narrative, but not in reality. we are definitely paying strong attention to both the j&j people and those who received a moderna. the actual data that will get that third shot for the moderna and second shot for the j&j is literally a couple to a few weeks away. we're working on that right now to get the data to the fda so they can examine it and make a determination about the boosters for those people. they're not being left behind by any means. >> is this something within weeks, days, months, when it comes to moderna and johnson & johnson? >> chuck, i believe it will be weeks, not months. i don't think it's going to be days. it's going to be weeks, i believe. >> the pfizer rollout should be this week? do we expect that? the fda hears from the advisory panel. you expect that decision this coming week and the rollouts could begin as early as thursday or friday?

>> yeah, i believe that's quite possible, chuck. as you know, the fda will come out with their decision and then immediately after that you will see the advisory committee on immunization practices advising the cdc. so it should be within the time frame that was first mentioned. >> you have said -- certainly there's the medical proof, scientific proof that, if you've gotten covid, you get someimmun. do we have good studies that indicate how long those natural immuniies last? >> not yet, chuck, we don't. we're following that, but not yet. we do know that when you do get infected, you get strong immunity. there's no doubt about that. the durability is unclear. there's another fact we know that, if you do get infected and recover and get vaccinated, the level of your immunity is

extraordinarily high, surpassing any of the other two-dose vaccines that you get. so there are certain things we do know, the two things i just mentioned. the thing that's still unclear is what the durability of natural infection-induced immunity is, and what is the scope of its protection against different variants. >> is this a case where, do you think we'll be able to get data to find out, for instance, if you've had covid, maybe you only need one shot of a pfizer and that will be sufficient? is that the kind of research you think we'll be able to have in hand soon? >> yeah, i believe so. i'm not so sure how soon, but certainly that's an important question, is being asked continually, particularly since we know you get a shot following natural infection and recovery, you get a very good immune response. so that's a question of interest and hopefully we'll be able to answer it in an expeditious manner. >> all right. play forecaster here.

this is our fourth surge. how close are we to being through it, and what do you expect the next three months to look like? >> well, the next three months, chuck, is up to us. getting back to what i say all the time, we still have approximately 70 million people who are eligible to be vaccinated who have not yet gotten vaccinated. if we get the overwhelming majority of those people vaccinated as we get into the mid to late fall and winter, we would get through the winter well. we always have to worry about the other respiratory infections, particularly influenza. so we strongly encourage people to also get the influenza vaccine. i believe if we get that overwhelming majority of the people vaccinated as we enter into the fall and winter, we can have good control over this and not have a really bad winter at all. >> one final thing. you indicated personally you would be supportive of a vaccine

mandate for domestic flyers. is that something under consideration by the biden covid team? >> well, the team has a lot of things on the table. nothing has been taken off the table. that decision has not been made. you know, the president made the decision when it comes to flying, if a person does not want to wear a mask or doesn't wear a mask, they double the fining on that. we have not yet gotten to the point of requiring vaccinations on domestic flights. but everything is on the table. we consider these things literally on a daily basis. >> all right. but does that mean it's something that could happen, or is it really just based on how long this fourth surge lasts? >> well, i think obviously the degree of dynamics of infection influences a lot of decision. so suffice it to say, it's still on the table right now. >> all right, dr. anthony fauci, as always, appreciate you coming

on and explaining the administration's perspective. >> thank you. >> as well as providing your own expertise. i guess we will see you soon. thank you. when we come back, one of the ten republican members of the house who voted to impeach president trump. president trump. i'll talk to bill (vo) while you may not be closing on a business deal while taking your mother and daughter on a once-in-a-lifetime adventure — your life is just as unique. your raymond james financial advisor gets to know you, your dreams, and the way you care for those you love. so you can live your life. that's life well planned.

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most awarded for network quality, 27 times in a row. proving once again that nobody builds networks like verizon. that's why we're building 5g right, that's why there's only one best network. welcome back. we've had two new indications of former president trump's growing come nance of this portion of the republican party. yesterday a few hundred people gathered at the capitol for a rally in support of the january 6th insurrectionists. anthony gonzalez decided there was no few fewer for being an anti-trump republican and announced he would not run for re-election. >> he's a sellout. he's a fake republican and a disgrace to your state.

>> calling trump a cancer for the country, gonzalez is one of ten house republicans who voted to impeach trump, announced his decision to retire. >> certainly the dynamics inside our own party have start'd stopped making sense to me. >> a two-term member of congress from ohio, facing max miller who trump has already endorsed. >> max's opinion point is a guy named anthony gonzalez, bad news. he's a grandstanding rhino, not respected in d.c. who voted for the unhinged, unconstitutional, illegal impeachment, witch hunt. >> eight months after the january 6th attack, former president trump is still winning the fight for the soul of the republican party. in a new survey more than half of republicans blame left wing activists for the attack, 30%

hold white supremacists responsible. yesterday a few hundred gathered on capitol hill for a rally in support of those. meanwhile, trump is trying to purge the party of any republican who crosses him, endorsing challengesers to members of congress who voted to impeach or convict him. >> he voted to impeach president trump. >> lisa murkowski is so out of touch, she even voted to remove donald trump from office even after he was already gone. >> on friday trump said in a statement, one down, nine to go. in may, house republicans stripped liz cheney of her leadership post. >> for reasons i don't understand, leaders in my party decided to embrace the former president who endorsed that. >> adopting his language and tactics.

>> we're not going to let it happen. >> if anyone is calling for lockdowns, you're not getting that done in florida. >> talking about an invasion of our country. >> governor gavin newsom successfully ran gonzales republican front run nir larry elder. >> the clone of donald trump. >> worried democrats could use the same playbook in 2022, as trump injects himself in key primary contests in georgia, new hampshire and north carolina. >> will you welcome the former president's involvement in the midterm? >> he has his own agenda. my view is, we're going to focus on this administration and the future. >> joining me is senator bill cassidy of louisiana, one of the seven republican senators who voted to impeach president trump at his second impeachment trial. senator cassidy, welcome back to

"meet the press." >> thank you for having me. >> let me start with anthony gonzalez's retirement. him walking away from politics, is that good or bad for the republican party? >> you know, anthony is choosing his personal priorities. you read his statement. it stands for itself. you have a broader question there, do republicans continue to relate gait 2020 or do we look forward with a positive agenda. if we relitigate 2020 over and over again, it won't change the result in 2020, but we're sure to lose in 2024. on the other hand, if we have a positive agenda which addresses the fact that the biden administration is in disarray, whether it's inflation, the border, afghanistan, then the country will win and we'll win. but if we choose to be bullied, we'll lose. >> you agree with congressman gonzalez who calls donald trump a cancer for the country? >> you know, politicians -- he's really speaking about the

republican party. politicians are not victims. politicians make a choice. if we choose to look forward bringing positive solutions to the american people who have needs, we win. if we choose to be bullied, we lose. let me put a point on this. my state has been hammered by hurricane ida. i have kmupts which have been completely destroyed. if you go back there, you're going to find somebody who, yeah, they feel strongly about the election in 2020. what they really feel strongly about is rebuilding their community and building the resiliency so that this doesn't happen again. now, if we meet that person's needs, republicans will do well in 2024, 2022. if we don't, they'll look elsewhere. let's meet their needs. >> you are i think being relentlessly hopeful here. you're trying to look forward. i get what you're trying to say. you're alone here. there are not many of you speaking this way. it does look like a lion's share

of your colleagues prefer to either stay silent or to go ahead and relitigate to appease trump. >> so we answer to voters. so if we don't answer to voters in a positive way, we lose. it's kind of a market zsh based economy, and it's ruthless. if all you do is talk a about the past, you're yesterday's news. if you talk about the future in a way which gives a positive alternative to a biden administration, whether it's inflation, afghanistan, immigration -- i could go on -- which is failing, then wep win. now, folks can choose to be bullied and relitigate. we can choose to go forward and win. i choose to go forward and serve my constituents. >> adam kinzinger said that the issue is there are too manufacture of his colleagues -- his quote, lacking the courage to speak out while privately hoping for change. it does seem there's been this, well, if you wait trump out.

guess what? there's no waiting him out. he waits you out. he waits everybody out. you've got to confront this more squarely. you've done it. you put yourself on the line. no one is going to accuse you of not speaking out. you're seven of 50 republicans. >> republicans -- let me start over. politicians are not victims. we choose who we answer to. either you can choose to answer to someone who is off screen, if you will, or you can choose to answer to your constituents, your state, your country. i find if you answer to your state, your constituents and your country, elections go okay. so if we speak -- you say i'm being hopelessly optimistic. no, that's a winning strategy. if we don't adopt that sort of strategy, our country loses and we lose. i'm all about winning. i'm about going forward. i'm about meeting the needs of someone right now in south louisiana who is wondering if

their life can be put back together and there's folks like that across our country. >> do you think at this time with where the party is choosing to go right now with donald trump, that that is a losing strategy for the midterms at this point? lose. we relitigate the we've got to speak about the future. now, again, our country is looking for something which brings back the prosperity we had prepandemic, where economic benefit was disproportionately going to those in the lower portion of our economic scale, with record low unemployment, which is to say record high employment for african-americans, hispanics, disabled, high school dropouts, et cetera, if we speak about recovering that, we win. again, if we relate gate an election from 2020, we lose. i'm about winning. >> part of the reason why we might have donald trump is this idea that washington is just always finger-pointing.

this debt ceiling discussion feels like one of those moments. i want to put up something that mitch mcconnell said. he said the country must never default. the debt ceiling will need to be raised. the only issue is whose responsibility is it to do it. a democratic president, democratic house and democratic senate. it's their obligation. this feels like someone saying, this is a fire, i have a fire extinguisher but i'm not going to use it. i know where you are on the debt ceiling. do you see how silly this is for the average person, just do your job. we know you have to raise the debt ceiling to make sure the economy doesn't caps. why politicize that? >> a couple things about that. every now and then context is important. debt ceiling context is important. we actually raised on a bipartisan basis the debt ceiling in the last congress because on a bipartisan basis we agreed on what to spend the money on. this time democrats want to increase the debt ceiling on the -- for the reconciliation bill which they're passing on a

party line basis, which is going to fuel inflation if you speak to democratic economists like larry summers. wait a second. we're supposed to aid and abet party line spending which even democratic economists say will fuel further inflation. no, that's not right. if you want to come back and meet where we can actually find common ground, where we can address needs as opposed to a democratic wish list, then we'll help. not when you're just trying to tank the economy by fueling inflation to get your wish list. >> this debt ceiling has nothing to do with the reconciliation. this is about spending that's already happened. i understand the messaging you want to make clear and the issue of spending. i understand that from an ideological disagreement. that's politics. but that's not what this debt ceiling is about right now. it's simply paying the bills we already promised we'd pay.

>> we'd actual raised the debt ceiling adequately to address all the way up to the $1.9 trillion package that was passed on a party line vote which has money out there far in excess of what is actually needed and is contributing to the inflation we have now. i will beg to differ with you. going forward, that's what they're hoping to do. they're hoping to increase the debt ceiling to meet their $3.5 trillion package which the committee for responsible federal budgets is actually $5.5 trillion. we're going to disagree on this. they are increasing the debt ceiling to make room for a $5.5 trillion democratic party wish list. >> i think that isn't how this technical debt ceiling needs to be. very quickly, there's still people without power in your state. i know it's in the hardest-to-reach areas. do you believe this bipartisan infrastructure bill that you're

support of is going to make it where power outages are less in louisiana after storms. >> first, hopefully disaster relief will actually address those particular relieves. this bill has billions to promote resiliency for the grid, whether it's a hurricane in louisiana, an ice storm in texas or the northeast or forest fires on the west coast. so absolutely. again, billions to address resiliency. we should pass this. we should pass it for my folks in la fush and terrebonne parish but for folks elsewhere in the nation. >> bill cassidy, republican from louisiana, appreciate you coming on and sharing your perspective with us. have a good sunday. thank you. when we come back, the growing crowds of haitian migrants living in deplorable conditions a at /* /* at ♪ ♪ ♪

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and since she's got goals, she might need help reaching them, and so she'll get some help from fidelity, and at fidelity, someone will help her create a plan for all her goals, that's the planning effect, from fidelity. welcome back. the panel is with us. anna palmer founder of "punchbowl news," jeff may sos white house correspondent for white house news, rich lowry from the "national review" and

maria teresa kumar from voto latino. there's a micro crisis at the texas border. u.s. military had to admit its missile strike in kabul in re up to ten innocent soldiers. and then france so angry about the u.s. sabotaging their deal with australia, they actually recalled their ambassador. jeff mason, what is the mood at the white house right now. it's been a rough six weeks, and it seems as if it's only getting worse. >> it got a lot worse on that friday afternoon with all those things happening in one day. the mood is one of soldiering on. they're certainly embattled right now. this white house has said from the beginning joe biden can chew gum and walk at the same time and all the people around him can do the same. certainly all these crises they didn't expect.

i don't think they expected to see one of the u.s.'s oldest allies recalling their ambassador. they're trying to say we've got this and we'll roll through it. it's a tough time. >> anna, with the pentagon said, and then you look at the border. there is this growing, wait, can you guys get your arms around our problems? this seems to be the real challenge. >> they have continued to stumble here. they don't have the messaging right, don't have the policy right. there's a lot of questions on capitol hill now that these members are coming back where they'll face investigations on afghanistan, what happened there. it's not going away. i think this is something where this white house has really not got its feet underneath it. now we're weeks into this, right? they need to figure out what their messaging is going to be, how are they going to deal with tough questions. >> maria teresa, this migrant crisis -- it's not seasonal.

president biden thought it was going to be seasonal, one of the things he said that turned out not to be true these days. this issue with the haitians -- we were talking earlier, this is another problem with disinformation perhaps for the haitian people. this is a bunch of bad choices. are we really going to send people back to haiti? >> i think the options right now are really limited. as you said, chuck, there's tons of disinformation right now, if you were to ask me what's one of the things under the radar folks aren't paying attention to but is a national security crisis, it is the disnfrlgs, whether the crisis at the border, vaccine hesitancy, getting information that doesn't allow them them to understand what the government is doing for them. even in france, france had to pull their ambassador back because they just lost a major contract of government jobs. they're trying to figure out how do you actually save face. they understand the alliance right now between the united states, germany, france and

australia, the nalt toe alliances, they need to make sure they continue. who is our biggest challenge? china. >> i think the white house would agree with you about disinformation. that's been something they've been trying to co and they're f by it. >> the only thing they're not criticizing biden on is the deal with australia. >> someone really upset with france, deserves to be upset. the french will get over it. they'll get their stories straight on boosters. i focus on the bore deand afghanistan. self-inflicted, national embarrassment and give a sense that events are out of control. i don't think we're here yet, but if this kind of slide continues, the risk to biden is a wraps that would stick with people, decent guy but not up for the job. that's what they have to avoid

at all costs. >> a certain one-term president from the lates '70s that would agree with that, president carter. i've got to put up something from the political director of the missouri afl-cio. i don't think one percent of reliable or frequent democratic voters have even a decent understanding of what democrats are frying to do in washington, d.c., the disconnect between what people in washington, d.c. are talking about -- i do feel like in the midst of this covid surge, what's happening on the border, the congressional fight feels like one that's more problematic. >> number one, i would say you're right he needs it. i was traveling with president biden on 9/11 last weekend. we chatted briefly. he expressed confidence that some republicans who aren't coming out in favor of these deals are still going to be with

him. >> i think they wildly, wildly over estimate where republicans are here. i think to your point, the biggest issue is going to be just getting the lights going. they're going to have to do government funding, do the debt limit. that is not what anybody in the middle of the country is concerned about. it's why shots in the arms played so well, because it's something people can understand. the next several months are going to be a slog of really just can biden turn joe manchin and kyrsten sinema and get them to support a massive reconciliation package which then they can use to 2022. up until then, the next four months will be tough. >> it's not even as much about bipartisanship, it's about getting democrats -- >> we saw what happened in health care. >> that's the biggest challenge right now. the consumption of american media right now in everyday households is falconized.

>> that's an understatement. >> one of the challenges is people are starting to see the child tax credit hit their bank account. they don't really understand where it's coming from. >> that's the amazing thing, one the missouri labor leader was talking about. my own people does even know that was based on a democratic -- >> you would think an enormous spending bill would have more impact, but it's having less an impact. no one knows where it's coming from and whether it's coming again. people on my side of the aisle are focused on, there's a huge immigration bill tucked in, with amnesty of about 8 million people. no one is talking about it because there's so much in it and it's so huge. >> do democrats really want the parliamentarian to allow reconciliation -- that sounds like a poison pill. >> we don't know what the parliamentarian is going to say right now. they're basically doing all the arguments for and against it. i do think that immigration,

voting rights, abortion, are what democrats are going to run on in 2022, not what the spending bill is. >> i do think this is where the biden administration really needs to wrap themselves around and learn a little bit from the recall, the newsom recall. that is, yes, right now biden may have had a tough week, but it is an asymmetrical conversation between him and what trump represents. talk about the abortion bill. talk about larry elder in his totality is antithesis of american v talking about policy we're living in a culture war of what is the heart of america. that's where the biden administration needs to fall into. >> you're saying biden needs a foil. when biden comes out on facebook and twitter asking trump to get back on. >> you don't want him on. otherwise the rally yesterday would have been so much bigger.

>> joe biden's numbers go up when donald trump is in the mix. >> you're not going to have larry elder running everywhere and everywhere is not california. >> they got things knocked out with the california trip, the wildfires, focusing on climate change. he is at this point planning to go to the g20 and gas gao climate conference. at this point i think he's planning on focusing on stuff from home, home being washington, d.c. and also delaware over the weekend. >> certain reconciliation bill is too big to fail. >> exactly. he has a lot riding on getting stuff right here. >> when we come back, why the

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89% thought we were getting better. our caseload was below 10,000 at one point. delta starts its move in the south, and as you can see, getting worse, getting better. then, of course, come august, pretty decided. i think we all follow we live in this current unpredictable fourth wave. that pessimism has done what? it has led to some travel issues. as the virus, we were getting it under control, travel was decrease, decreasing july. there's august. you expect the number to go. look what's happened. the number of canceled trips since the rice of delta, 27%. number of postponed trips, 34%. this is sort of a good way of giving you an idea of when the economy is coming back. people are looking forward, they see where delta is. they've decided the next three months, it's going to be tough. for now it looks like everybody is hoping that maybe it's the start of '22 that will begin the next chance at independence from

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rich lowry, i want to play a piece from anthony gonzalez in an interview with our cleveland affiliate. >> we just seem to have lost the ability to dialogue and to reason and to do it in a way that's respectful and thoughtful inside of politics. >> i'm pretty sure everybody around this table would agree with that sentiment. i thought the most correct thing he said is, even if i won, i was going back to a washington republican party controlled by trump. >> uh-huh. >> this is no room for a moderate republican in the party. >> he's not up until 2026. >> do you think 2022 bill cassidy -- >> much harder. you can maintain distance, butld trump. put aside the post election, there are two ways for republican voters to react to 2020. one is to say, well, trump did good stuff, but he's the won that lost to joe biden, we wish

him well but we need to move on. the other way is he's the opposite of joe biden in every way and he's still our champion. that latter option is very much where the party is. i don't think the party can mess up 2020. 2024 is a huge question. whether trump decides to go or not is enormously important. probably the single decision made by one person who will have the impact on the future of the republican party since eisenhower. >> anna palmer, adam kin singer says many are hoping he goes away. we're nine month removed from january 6th and then some. it's stronger than ever. >> absolutely. if you look at the president praising the protests this weekend here in washington, not a single republican said no what happened on january 6th was terrible, the president is wrong on this.

nobody wants to confront trump because it's a losing battle. honestly, if you look at most republicans on capitol hill are bear hugging trump. kevin mccarthy sees his obtaining the speakership right through donald trump. >> jeff mason, bill cassidy certainly made his stance clear, but he didn't want to add to the criticisms of of trump. mitch mcconnell will be very happy with him. >> yes. it's not just about donald trump. it's about his voters. we were talking about room in the republican party for moderates, the voters are with the former president. that base is stronger than ever. they're the ones that are coming out. be it a bill cassidy or a republican at a local level, at a national level, they need those people who are supporters of the former president. >> maria teresa, is this proof that decide all the challenges we talked about in our last segment, as long as trump is

front and center it could paper over some problems for democrats? >> i do. i also think when you look at republicans that are speaking truth to what's happening now in the republican party is against our democracy, the fact they felt so emboldened after an ininsurrection of a fair and free election on january 6th, what would speak more to the american people is stay in the fight, keep talking about the asymmetry we're seeing right now in the republican party. right now we don't have two parties. we have one party who believes in the democratic society -- there is a bully pulpit there that is constantly streaming for the republican party, what it means to actually leave and what it means to actually be part of a democracy and we need two strong parties. otherwise there's no battle of ideas. >> does the republican party have any chance of healing itself if he does run? >> if he does run in 2024, it's hard to say. he would be the prohibitive

front-runner, no doubt. >> a bunch of people would not run because of him. >> and the field would be smaller. the question is two, two and a half years from now, has his power eroded in some way that's not visible, and i don't think you'd know until caucuses and primaries. republicans want to win elections. there eyre not an anti democratic party. a lot of people want to look back on january 6th -- it's not an anti democratic party. >> they didn't vote for the insurrection, didn't vote for the commission. they didn't want to look behind the curtain to see what was happening there. they are going around state to state to create barriers to the voting booth, texas republican-led. we have to have a honest conversation with what's happening in the republican

party. that's why gonzalez is retiring. we can't even meet on the merits of what -- >> not one person who is going to vote because of the texas and electoral format. that's not true. >> it absolutely is true. >> people can sign their absentee ballots, can vote by mail. >> one of the challenges right now in harris county, the bill that was recently passed by abbott, they are closing drop-off boxes in harris county which is the most diverse county in the country. they're not doing the same thing in predominantly white communities. it makes me pause and say if the republican party certified a fair, free' lurks in texas, why now -- it's the hard estate to vote in -- why now add restrictions. >> these were emergency measures, they didn't exist prior to 2020. if we had a democracy prior to 2020nd you stop drive-through voting, stop drop-off boxes or limit them, it can't be true that democracy is over because we had a democracy prior to

those emergency provisions. >> it will mobilize democrats in 2022. the question is how much. whether it helps sort offend off the republican firewall, but that and the social issues we were talking about earlier, really will get democrats out to vote. >> how much does trump impact the ability for the two parties to have even the same conversation on capitol hill? i do get a sense that this really is disruptive. >> when you look at all the things that will happen in the next four months, donald trump is peering over every republican's shoulder, are you going to vote this? are they going to vote to support this bipartisan infrastructure bill? the longer you get away from the senate vote, the viewer republicans in the house are going to. when you look at reconciliation, that's going to be a party line vote. >> the fact they can't even get debt ceiling agreement here -- to me this is how you ended up with a donald trump, because of stupid political fights like

this. >> and the people like anthony gonzalez are leaving, right? you don't have anybody who is this moderate, business centric republican who might be more of the person who says, okay, we need to have cooler heads prevail in these big crises. >> where are the major donors on this? why aren't they influencing this? >> it differs from donor to donor, but a lot of them are where the rest of the party is as well on that question. >> terrific panel. thank you guys. that's all we have for today. thank you all for watching. appreciate it. we'll be back next week. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

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