as vladimir putin says ukraine may lose its statehood >> tod they have ruined my city, destroyed many homes >> thousands huddle underground. >> please, we don't have enough food for m ukrainians fill the s protest and see continue their fierce fight on the

battlefield. western nations, though, reject president zelenskyy's calls for a no fly zone. >> the talkeo talk with putin because there are no ways to stop this war >> plus the refugee crisis some 1.5 million have already fled the country >> my daughter was crying and saying she may never see me again. >> ukrainians leave everything behind >> my home, my dogs, my cats, my life >> and charges of bias against some refugees. my guest this morning, secretary of state antony blinken, senator joe manchin of west virginia, former u.n. ambassador nikki haley, and we'll have reports from kyiv and the polish border. plus the first post-invasion poll shows a big bounce for president biden. are we about to see a change in our domestic politics.

joining me for inside analysis are nbc correspondent hallie jackson, eddie glaude jr. of princeton university, robin wright of "the new yorker" and stephen hayes, founder of "the dispatch." welcome to sunday and "meet the press. >> announcer: the longest running show in television history, this is a special edition of "meet the press" with chuck todd >> and a good sunday morning we've seen the world rally around ukraine moved by its fierce resistance and moments like this one. this is what ukranian officials say is the shooting down of a helicopter the worst is yet to come for ukraine. yesterday putin threatened them with their statehood, civilians laying waste, and putin

violating court orders there are people jamming train stations before an assault on the capitol. russia does control areas south and east of ukraine. they're looking to cut ukraine off from the sea and trap its army internally. vladimir putin in his own country signed a new law cracking down on free speech, making it a possible crime in russia to call this what it actually is, which is a war. and with the russian economy crippled by sanctions, putin is actually now calling that a declaration of war there are growing concerns that a cornered putin could lash out and widen this conflict beyond ukraine's borders. we're going to start this morning with two reports from the region kelly cobiella is in ukraine reporting on the poland border, with 1.5 million ukrainians who have fled their country.

richard engel, whaeltt's the lae freslatest from your perspective? >> they have collapsed with both sides, the russians and the ukrainians, blaming the other for the breakdown. if means people are still trapped in that city, still under fire and without food, power, water here in kyiv, russian forces are advancing toward the city. they are making slow advances in the northeast around the neighborhoods of erpin and bucca. i just spoke with the mayor of kyiv a short while ago, and he told me roughly 10,000 people have been killed so far, according to figures that he has, on both sides of the conflict i asked him how long he thinks kyiv can hold out, and he said frankly he doesn't know but that he believes it can be a long time because the people here have a lot of fighting spirit and they're not fighting for the will of one man. >> richard, look, a little of

the russian side of things is a bit opaque, obviously, with the crackdown that they have on a free press but just from observational sake, it looks like this russian army is not performing very well what do you know >> reporter: so sources have been telling me, sources that are well connected to the russian security services, that the offensive is not going well, that some special 40s, the russian pesnaps, are furious because they have been sent into battle without proper support and many of them have been killed they said the national guard forces and the regular army, the national guard forces including the chechen units, that they are not coordinating on the field, and that the overall battle plan is somewhat disjointed, in that it's partly a plan for war and partly a plan for peacekeeping and so-called

denazification in this coudenazf this and has led to cohesion vladimir putin is increasingly isolated he's just taking advice from his inner circle there are only about three people that matter right now and that speech you mentioned a short while ago that putin gave yesterday, bizarre location, speaking to arafat to a group of flight attendants, he sounded incredibly angry he sounded detached. he was talking about how the ukrainians here are machine gunning people, that they're driving around in cars packed with explosives jihadi style, and he went very deep and repeatedly on this theme that they're fighting against the nazis. it was the angriest i've ever seen him >> richard engel in kyiv for us. richard, a reminder this is putin's war more than it is russia's war, at least right now. joining me now to talk about the russian crisis is kelly cobiella she is in medica on the polish

border with ukraine. kelly, the enormous number of people crossing over, how is poland going to be able to handle this, and will we see people flown out to other countries because poland can't absorb everybody that's coming over its border? >> reporter: yeah, i mean, chuck, the numbers are just astounding we saw it again yesterday from the polish guard. 129,000 people arriving in this country in one day most of them are women and children they're arriving with nothing. they need a tremendous amount of support, not just in food, medicine, a place to rest, a place to live, but also emotional support. a lot of them are deeply traumatized by what they've been through. the volunteer groups who have been organizing the response over the past nine days or so say they are now starting to get overwhelmed. just when they catch their breath from a wave of refugees coming across, there is another day and another wave

and people really are determined to get here, chuck we spoke to a family just a few minutes ago who arrived today. they arrived from kharkiv. they said they were waiting on a train station. they saw what they thought was a missile strike, and nobody dove for cover because they were that desperate to get a spot on the train. these people are still in disbelief as to how they've ended up here. one woman, i asked her, what do you need most? and she said, i need the war to end so i can go home chuck? >> kelly cobiella in poland for us kelly, just a reminder, three weeks ago these people were living very first world lives. joining me now from moldova is secretary antony blinken. secretary blinken, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks, chuck >> i want to talk about the ask president putin made yesterday morning, and i'm sure he made similar asks in his phone call

to president biden no fly zone, lethal aid, ban russian oil imports and to perforate russia's status. they've talked about sending russian-made jets to ukraine can that happen? >> first of all, president zelenskyy has done everything he can to resist this russian aggression biden is in contact with him as he was just yesterday. on this question of planes, yes, we're talking very actively about this, looking at what we could do to backfill poland if it chooses to send the migs and the planes it has to ukraine, how we can help by backfilling what they're giving to the

ukrainians that's in active discussion as we speak >> you said if that's a poland decision, not a nato decision? >> it's a sovereign decision by poland if they choose to do it, we want to make sure we can help them and, again, backfill what they're giving so they don't have any loss in their own ability to provide security. >> so if any of these nato nations that have these russian-made planes donate them to ukraine, we're going to backfill if they're a nato ally? >> well, look, we would have to work through each case on its own merits, we have to make sure we're able to do something if that's what a country is requesting in return for sharing the jets that they have. >> let's start with the ban on oil imports. i know as late as last week, there was still -- the administration was saying, no, we can't do the 100% ban has your mind changed? has the administration's mind changed on this? are you looking at a full

embargo on russian gas and oil >> chuck, i spoke to the president and the cabinet, the leading members of the cabinet, about this just yesterday from europe and we are now this very active discussions with our european partners about banning the import of russian oil to our countries while, of course, at the same time maintaining a steady global supply of oil. the actions we've taken to date have already had a devastating impact on the russian economy. we see the ruble in freefall, we see the economy heading into a deep recession, we've already had a major impact but we are looking, again, as we speak, in coordination with allies and partners, at this prospect of banning oil imports. >> so it's interesting you added the "in coordination." the united states is not going to do this unilaterally? >> a hallmark of everything

we've done to date has been this coordination with allies and partners we are much more effective a krolacross the board when we're doing things together. there are instances where we each do something a little bit different, but it complements the whole. so in the first instance, we want to make sure we're acting in coordination. i'm not going to rule out taking action one way or another irrespective of what they do, but everything we've done, the approach starts with coordinating with allies and partners >> and another way of ratcheting things up on the russians is zelenskyy suggested terminating russia's preferential trading status is that something we're considering? >> look, chuck, let me say this. there are a series of things that are out there that we're looking at to continue to ratchet up the pressure on vladimir putin for the purposes of getting him to end this aggression intense ukraine, to

stop this war, to stop the killing, to stop the suffering there are, as i said, extraordinary measures that we've already taken. we said many months ago when all of this started, and we warned that putin was threatening this aggression, we said if he pursued it, there would be massive consequences for russia. and we delivered on that promise. you see it again in everything that's happening to the russian economy. but if there are things that remain to do to increase the pressure, if he's unwilling to stop the aggression, we're going to do them so we will look at each and every one, decide together with our allies and partners what's most effective, when we should do it, and we'll proceed in that way. >> i want to talk about the no fly zone let me quote president zelenskyy. in a telegram on friday, he essentially sent this out on social media all the people who will die starting this day will also die because of you he's addressing the west because of your weakness, because of your disunity today the alliance leadership

gave the green light of further bombing of ukraine cities by refusing to make a no fly zone i understand it's an emotional statement. you have had conversations there. why not rule out the no fly zone why not make putin think it's impossible >> president zelenskyy has no bounds if i was in his shoes, i would be asking and looking for everything possible from everyone and every place around the world. as i've said, what we've already done is extraordinary, and just to remind people, over the past year alone, from the united states alone, more than a billion dollars in security assistance, lethal defensive weapons that are being put to very effective service by ukrainians now in defense of their country. and other measures we're looking at going forward just in the last week alone, chuck, we have delivered more than $200 million worth of

security assistance into the hands of ukrainians. so all of that is ongoing, all of that is continuing. the president has been very clear about one thing all along as well, which is we're not going to put the united states in direct conflict with russia, not have american planes flying against russian planes or our soldiers on the ground in ukraine, because for everything we're doing for ukraine, the president also has a responsibility to not get us into a direct conflict, a direct war with russia, a nuclear power, and risk a war that expands even beyond ukraine to europe that's clearly not our interest. what we're trying to do is end this war in ukraine, not start a larger one >> let me ask you this -- >> keep in mind what a no fly zone -- just so people understand, too, what a no fly zone means it means if you declare a space no fly and a russian plane flies through it, it means we have to shoot it down. >> let me ask the question this

way. we're getting towards the end of the second week of this conflict can this still end diplomatically with vladimir putin in charge of russia? >> you know, how this ends is an important question, and i wish that we could see signs that president putin was willing to engage diplomatically to bring this aggression to a close right now we're not seeing him he was on the phone, president putin, with president macron of france a couple days ago, and by all accounts, according to the french, he's digging in and doubling down. and i think we have to be ready that this could go on for some while. the sheer force that russia can bring to bear, the manpower, the expanse to its military has the potential to keep grinding down these incredibly brave and resilient ukrainians but here's the thing winning a battle is not winning a war. taking a city is not taking the

hearts and minds of ukrainians and what we've learned over the past couple of weeks is that they will fight to the end for their country. and if it takes a week, if it takes a month, if it takes a year he has no plan, putin, for how this actually ends on his terms. he can't impose his will and russia's will on 45 million ukrainians they've clearly demonstrated that but it may take some considerable time to play out. we want it to end as quickly as possible with ukraine having its independence, its territorial integrity, its sovereignty but i think we need to be prepared for this going on for some time. >> secretary antony blinken, i know you're busy i know you have yet another plane to catch thank you for coming on and giving your perspective. >> thank you accide, chuck. good to be with you. joining me now is senator manchin of west virginia

welcome back >> thank you >> you were on this zoom with president zelenskyy yesterday. before i get into the details, what was that like with him? what did he say to you guys? >> it's so surreal, but to have a person on the front lines taking mortars every day and basically seeing his people being slaughtered and willing to withstand all of this and fight back, and all he asked for was basically just help me i'll fight my own fight, just give me the tools to do it for us to hesitate, for anyone to hesitate in the free world, is wrong he said, if ukraine falls, europe may fall. >> what does that mean for you would you support a no fly zone? would you support doing this, which could trigger a wider conflict >> i understand, but you don't signal to the nemesis of putin -- this is putin's war, this is not the russian people's war, this is putin's war and his quest for whatever it may be but to take anything off the table thinking we might not be able to use things because we've taken them off the table is wrong. i would take nothing off the table, but i would be very clear

we're going to support the ukranian people, the ukranian president and this government, in every way possible. the president was clear, we don't need you to fight our fight. we don't need you to fly your planes into our war zone we need planes we can fly ourselves and we have them on the boarder >> you heard secretary blinken that seems to be in motion, right? >> yes >> on the oil embargo, you heard the president saying, yes, we're in favor of it, if the entire alliance does it, too, which sounds like there is an interest in doing it unilaterally is congress for it unilaterally? >> i would say so. and we think it's not something

we want to do, to basically send money to putin we have the resources here and we have the technology we're a million barrels short a day right now that we can ramp up like that we can do certain things, and we don't have to do anything for the american people to be in pain but i believe the american people would pay if they have to, seeing they're saving freedom and lives for innocent people >> that's right now. let's see what happens when gas is $5. >> gas is $4 inflation has wreaked havoc on it now and basically we're seeing we're going to sit back because it might go up more? i'm willing to at least do something to say whatever it would take, we'll ramp up the energy, produce the oil, the natural gas, build the pipelines. we've been stymied

we haven't done anything as it relates to energy. we can do it cleaner than anyone else in the world, but we can also transition to a cleaner technology >> is this the price of your involvement in talks with the biden administration you sort of outlined some top lines. he needs to lower the deficit, i'd like to do prescription drugs, and if there is anything else, we can talk about di different things but you also had a big circle in energy production. you want to see energy production before you sit down with president biden >> inflation is affecting every american i know of, the high prices they can't sustain. it's hurting people working like the dickens trying to make a living they need help so inflation is the number one thing basically helping ukraine is saving democracy around the world, because it will permeate if we don't stop it.

you have to get your financial house in order my grandfather said, if you don't get your finances in order you'll make a cowardly decision. we've got to get this under control. exaspirational things we want to do, whether it's the far forget about the aspiration. we're living in a real world this is global we have to look at this as global and what we can do. our energy produced in america is better and cleaner than anywhere else in the world the gas from lng we can send over, expanding reports, we have requests for permits still standing and haven't been given. i have a mountain valley pipeline in the state of west virginia that will take 2 billion cubic feet a day into the marketplace immediately. and you know what?

it's 95% done, i can't get it done >> what do you say to those who say if we continue to expand fossil fue fuel infrastructure, it will be harder tol infrastructure clean? >> we can do much with that. it's a clean technology we're, we'll it won't be clean? >> we have clean energy. if you don't do this, you can't do this. i'm saying get your financial house in order we voted against the 2017 republican tax cuts. we thought they were weighted unfairly if you have one thing you're not united on, fix it. >> thank you, senator manchin, for coming in. >> thank you when we come back, we'll talk to former ambassador nikki haley. she is a top 2024 presidential candidate. she's been critical of president

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nikki haley spent six years as a u.n. ambassador under president trump. nikki haley, welcome to "meet the press. >> thank you thank you for having me on >> can this crisis come to an end with putin in russia >> he's going to drag this out as long as he can. he's committed he is an evil tyrant that we see is not going to stop until he can form the soviet empire what we have learned and the lesson in all of this is, when tyrants speak, we should listen. he said he was going to take ukraine, he is china said they were going to take hong kong

they did he said he's going to take poland and the baltics we should believe him. iran said they wanted to destroy israel every time a tyrant speaks, we need to remember they told us. we need to listen. >> you sound like somebody, then, that would be in favor of a no fly zone over ukraine right now. if putin is what you describe him as, i guess what guardrails should we be putting on the nato alliance right now >> no, i'm not in favor of a no fly zone right now what i am this favor of is the biden administration stepping up and doing the things that will matter we know the one thing that punches putin in the gut is to hit his energy sector. there is no reason we should be taking money from an enemy we should go ahead and sanction all of those energy companies right now. we should remove him from the international banking system, we should be coordinating intelligence in realtime with the ukrainians we should be leading with nato

telling them to give the planes to ukraine we should be making sure we're moving forward on giving them the missiles they need they have said they don't have what they need they need javelins, they need stingers, they need anti-tank missiles to be able to do this we should have done this when putin made his first move. we're late to the game, we were late to the game it's not too late but we need to get on the ball. >> one could argue there was 20 years after of appeasing putin,t he could become a leader of the world order. was that a mistake from the get-go >> i've always said you can't trust russia, you can't trust putin, you can't trust xi, you can't trust china. you never deal with your enemies. you can't trust them that's why i was mortified that biden went so far as to ask china for help withrussia. i mean, you never ask an enemy

for help with another enemy. i never told china anything that i didn't want russia to know, because you know how they coordinate it's the same reason why uit's unthinkable that biden would be coordinating or even thinking of getting back with the iran deal with russians at the table why would he be negotiating with russians you don't do that. that's the one thing you do, understand who your enemies are and make sure you understand them >> you would treat china as an enemy, not as a rival, if you will you wouldn't work with them diplomatically at all if you were in charge right now >> do you know what -- i mean, china right now has coordinated with russia. when biden went and told china wh what was going on and asked for help with russia, what did china do china ran and told russia.

i watched it at the united nations. those countries are getting incredibly close they don't like each other but they both want to destroy the west china, when they take taiwan, this is going to blow up right now taiwan is manufacturing haft olf of the semiconductor chips. they use their phones, they drive cars all of that will be disrupted. why are we relying on china to give medical supplies when we saw how they handled covid in the world? america has to wake up and we have to start being smart dealing with these tyrants they can't continue to run all over us. >> let me play something that former vice president pence said on friday. i'm curious your reaction to it. he said, there is no room in this party for apologists for putin. there is only room for champions of freedom as you know, there's been some flirtations on the right with putin, although ever since he actuallyinvaded, some of those

folks have taken things back fo to them? >> my very first speech inr thos unitedt president trump, what do you say to them? >> i purposely threw it out the window and met with ukrainians first. putin tries to poison his political opponents whether he shoots down planes, whether he assists assad with chemical weapons in syria, he has shown us time and time again that he is evil. what i will tell you about president trump, as much as everybody wants to talk about what he says, what i look at is what he did. he sanctioned russia, he dispelled diplomats, he shut off nord stream 2, which is all putin ever wanted, and he made us energy independent. all of this happened when putin

acquired russia. this has been a terrible mistake that started with afghanistan. one thing after another, we've done nothing but show weakness we have got to show strength what i would say is you can talk about past presidents all you want, but the last thing you need to be doing is you can't look for the remote when the tv is burning down. >> the trump administration, trump personally tried to roll back sanctions against russia in 2017 they tried to lobby congress to weaken legislation in 2017 he tried to remove sanction s on a russian oligarch in 2018, and let's not forget holding military aid hostage for a political stunt. you don't think any of those things sent a message to vladimir putin that america is divided, the west is divided and he can get away with whatever he

wants? >> you said it in every one of those things you kept saying he tried all i know is what he did. i was personally there at the united nations when he got out of the iran deal, when he sanctioned putin, when he expelled diplomats, when he refused nord stream pipeline he did stronger things against russia than republican or democrat presidents before him i mean, this was something that putin knew not to mess with the united states. putin needs to know that again we need to start standing up why are we even ho-humming around the fact that we're still taking russian oil why are we doing that? why would we take money from evil dictators you never sleep with the devil because then the devil owns you. the europeans are learning coming on.

ve very quickly, does donald trump's 2024 plans impact your 2024 plans >> i have always said if trump runs, i will not i want to talk to russians in the military about where the war is headed. stick with us. tyranny of it well but so do developers, data scientists, ctos the new creators to them, we say let's create something that changes everything ♪ ♪ ♪ ibm let's create age before beauty? why not both? visibly diminish wrinkled skin in... crepe corrector lotion... only from gold bond.

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. welcome back. western nations have rejected volodymyr zelenskyy's call for a no fly zone over ukraine. they also said a ban on purchasing russian oil would have greater impact on sanctions. james stavridis is a retired admiral, and fiona hill has a new book out. fiona, i want you to respond to ambassador haley about what she said about biden's records on putin's sanctions. how would describe his efforts when it comes to putin?

>> certainly there was more bilateral administration by congress and by the united nations. one thing that sums it up that you touched on is that president trump, at a critical period, withheld military assistance that was desperate at that particular juncture, basically getting zelenskyy to do a personal favor. >> what's the message to zelenskyy? >> that nobody was really serious about protecting ukraine, and that was a sign of weakness. our policy was on infighting. putin is quite shocked now to think we have some collective action together. >> james, i want you to listen to kira rudik. >> the next step we need to see

is a no fly zone over ukraine. i know people are saying, no, no, a third world war will start. i will be blunt with you. it has already started. >> we have the map up. logistically, why can't we do this? >> let me start on the back end. it's quite obvious if we put u.s. nato jets in the air enforcing a no fly zone, they'll be going nose to nose with russian fighter aircraft, down that path, the potential for miscalculation and a war between nato and russia and a war between russia and the united states rises significantly. look, i implemented a no fly zone. i know how to do this. i did it in libya in 2011. can we do it? sure. should we? not yet. but final point, chuck, what we

ought to do is give the ukranians the ability to fly. get those mig 25s in their hands. >> does nato have enough of them to give the ukranians a chance at air superiority? >> yes. and by the way, take a look at nato combat aircraft. we have over 25,000. russian combat aircraft, around 5,000. we outnumber them 5-1 as an alliance. we outspend them 15-1. we outnumber them in ground troops 4-1. he's not going to cross a nato border in anger, but we ought to do all we can to support the ukranians. >> the lindsey graham tweet says

frankly we need to take this guy out. it was a solution on a podcast a few weeks ago. do you expect putin to leave russia if this war ends? >> look, i think we have to be very careful for the same reasons they are talking about taking extreme care with a no fly zone. one of the reasons vladimir putin is engaging in this appalling behavior in ukraine is because he's worried about his own position. he has to be reelected, in theory, and also in practice in 2024. we're running up to his own presidential time clock here. if he fails and looks weak, it's disastrous at home, not just abroad. and any talk about taking out regime change, he looks at what the united states has done and he says it openly all the time in libya, in iraq, in afghanistan, and many other places where we've intervened, and he looks at us and he

thinks, i'm not going to let that happen here in russia. he's extremely paranoid about this, and one of the reasons he wants to destroy ukraine is because he thinks that we would use it, because he would think about using it as a launching pad for something like this. we have to be extraordinarily cautious about how we talk about this conflict. we need to stop the war in ukraine, but we have to be very careful about talking about war with russia, regime change and other things, because he will absolutely double down further. >> jim, how does this end with him in power? >> i think it's increasingly hard to see that just because the behavior we're seeing are war crimes. let's call it what it is. when you fire artillery into residential areas, when you bomb civilians, when you attack a nuclear power plant, you are committing war crimes. increasingly, that is going to have to be taken into account as this ends. how does it end? let's look back at the balkans. i think if we look back in

history, we had similar kind of situations, differences, but similar in the 1990s -- >> we were never going to go in, though, and eventually we went in. i've been thinking about that a lot. we said we weren't going to go in. i remember all those pledges and we couldn't stand watching this humanitarian crisis and we intervened. >> chuck, this is precisely what's unfolding, and maybe the biggest weapon we have is proof, is showing the russians what their leader is creating in their name. >> will the russians see the truth? >> what we're going to have to do is try to keep on pushing this at every possible juncture that we can. there are a lot of russian oligarchs out there whose assets are being seized and can be used in part to support the ukranians, for example, but we have to work on the broader public opinion in chinese, the indians and others who have basically been sitting on the fence try to push this, too,

because this is an atrocity that the whole world can't stand by and watch. that's what we need to focus on right now to see if we can get this to stop. jim stavridis and fiona hill, thank you very much. >> thank you. watch out for those up and down revisions. boy, are they coming,rust this... is the planning effect. this is how it feels to have a dedicated fidelity advisor looking at your full financial picture. this is what it's like to have a comprehensive wealth plan with tax-smart investing strategies designed to help you keep more of what you earn. and set aside more for things like healthcare, or whatever comes down the road. this is "the planning effect" from fidelity. as a professional bull-rider i'm used to taking chances. but when it comes to my insurance i don't. i use liberty mutual, they customize your car insurance, so you only pay for what you need.

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welcome back. data download time. friday's federal job numbers provided some much-needed news on the economic front for the biden administration. the country crushed expectations by adding 678,000 jobs in february. but how real is this february figure? well, we may have to wait and see what the revised numbers look like next month, because guess what, in 2021 we saw a lot of monthly numbers revised dramatically. last year we had three months where you had massive downgrade revisions. march, 200,000, in june, nearly 300,000, in july, 250,000. look at those. and we also had massive upgrades. in january 2021, almost half a

million upgrades. in november, another half a million upgrades. in total, in 2021, if you took all the revisions in one thing, they were short essentially 1.4 million total jobs. a lot of this is pandemic driven, but a lot of this is a reminder that this monthly jobs report is a poll, folks. it, too, has a margin of error. when we come back, has the thanks for coming. now when it comes to a financial plan this broker is your man. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own, or with help from a financial consultant? like schwab does. uhhh... could we adjust our plan... ...yeah, like if we buy a new house? mmmm... and our son just started working. oh! do you offer a complimentary retirement plan for him? as in free? just like schwab. schwab! look forward to planning with schwab.

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welcome back. panelists with us, senior washington correspondent, legal jackson, stephen hayes, contributing writer and columnist for the new yorker. i'll quickly show some biden poll numbers here, but i actually want to focus a little bit more on the war, but we're seeing here, hallie, one poll after the invasion, this appears to be the first of what could be the rally around the flag, post ukraine, his approval right now of handling ukraine above water. we may be in the middle of a shift in politics based on

ukraine. >> i think you're right. it's one data point. we need more before we start to extrapolate from it. the white house is not happy to see these numbers, although it's not their primary focus. what struck me, what happened in ukraine, is penetrating to people who might not care about political issues. the images are visceral, it's in the front of every single newspaper, even local papers and national newscasts every single morning and every single night. this is more political than the things folks tend to get a little lost in. we'll see how the other ones come out. >> robin, i was intrigued by the conversation i had with stavridis about the balkans. i remember in 1984 and 1985, we weren't going to go in, and the pictures changed public opinion. to hallie's point, the world may

push us to do a no fly zone. >> for the moment that's not going to happen. there are too many calculations. russia's war has never been just about ukraine. it was always about the competition with the west. the one big question, of course, is where does putin stop, and does he push, whether covertly or overtly, beyond ukraine? that's where you might see the united states taking a stronger position, setting up defense mechanisms, challenging any kind of putin aggression. for now they're not going to do that. the real question is can you change the balance of power in the air? if you can do that, suddenly you change the dynamics across the board, whether it's giving ukrainians fighters so it can take on those convoys we see outside of kyiv, or whether it's providing stingers and javelins. that's really the critical next step.

>> i think the question is, is the administration doing everything it can do. this goes back to the political question. everybody will be favorable to president biden if we see this play out on our screens, on our phones, but the biden administration is really doing everything it can. i think there is a growing sense that they're not. if you look at what president biden said on february 24th when he announced this to the world, we are going to do something, we are going to be tough. he said russia will be an international pariah, a pariah on the international stage. we're dealing with russia on it ran deal, we're dealing with russia on climate. the united states has given guidance on continuing to deal with russia. this is what happened after 2014. we said russia will be isolated. russia wasn't isolated. we need to do more. >> it's interesting, is this putin's war or russia's war? i think there are some that are trying to create, hey, let's not punish the russian people. i don't know if you can do that. >> it's going to be difficult. war is war. we need to be very clear about it, and whenever war happens,

everyday people who happen to live there will be impacted. it's important to think about president biden is also dealing with the coalition folks that are impacting the kinds of decisions he makes. and we were lauding him, celebrating him for actually building that coalition to do what we've done so far. and there are also constraints. it's one thing to go it alone, but it's another thing to understand that this is a war that impacts how the west concedes themselves. >> i think it was clever at the very beginning for the biden administration to go public as quickly as they did with the intelligence gathering. it was a smart thing, i think it was defective. not because it was a deterrent, but it made clear that vladimir putin was lying about what he was about to do, but it created this gap on what the president was saying, what the administration was saying, about what this would mean, reshaping

how the world operates, and we didn't initially sanction putin. we relied on s.w.i.f.t. we didn't send the arms before the war that we're now rushing into the theater. >> i think it's important -- i was still struck by secretary blinken. he clearly wanted to come out and make some news on the banning of russian oil imports. they didn't do it, but it's been a shift from the white house. >> if congress is going to pass this, he's not going to veto it. they have to come out in favor of it. >> but the question is, are we just going to ban what the united states trades, or are we going to sanction others who do oil deals with the russians? if we don't take the second layer, the first layer is meaningless and symbolic. remember, last year putin made almost $120 billion off energy when the price of oil is under $70. now it's 115, it could go to

150. even as we sanction him on oil, the rest of the world is still buying. >> but to your point earlier, the question about where does he stop, we can affect where he stops. if we do this first, we're basically not going to binge banks, we're going to stay these steps until the end of june. if we do this now, we can lead. we shouldn't be waiting to follow. >> should we take some solace that putin is calling this a declaration of war? meaning, oh, this really hit them this time. it's clear all the other sanctions weren't effective. these are effective. >> and he's concerned enough to say that if a no fly zone were to happen it would be in direct confrontation. he's listening to what's happening nationally, right? you can raise the question of pressure on him at home inside russia given what you started

your show with today, chuck, and the crackdown on reporting inside russia. >> but there is something going on in the russian army, and at some point we have to figure out, robin, can we harness this? can we harness this clear -- there's something. >> chuck, how many movies have you seen about the plots against adolf hitler in world war ii and none of them worked? >> i wasn't going there. >> so, sure, there's likely to be some discontent. these are a lot of conscripts, they don't know what they're doing, they're lost. i don't think any time soon we're likely to see any kind of challenge, whether it's by the people or by the military that changes putin. >> eddie, i joked about bringing up the state of the union, it's like nobody else is talking about it. but if there's one thing that surprised me about the president's state of the union is the lack of connecting the fight for democracy and the freedom abroad, but what about today's fight for democracy at

home? marching across the bridge a second time without john lewis is upsetting. >> let's secure democracy at home. >> and political. it's an easy political move. >> what would it mean to secure democracy at home? we have to address what's happening across the country in terms of voting rights. and we also have to look at the forces within our country that are driving the challenge to voter rights. i didn't understand it and i thought it was a mistake. >> and if we're going to get in more, we have to explain to the american people why this fight matters. a prime time special tonight on nbc at 9:00 central. thank you for joining us.

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olympic games. the premier league indy car the pga tour and primetime's number one show, "sunday night football" only on nbc. the 2022 paralympic olympic games got underway on friday and team u.s.a. already with two medals led by oksana masters now a 12-time paralympic medalist no stranger to medals. the u.s.a. sled hockey team.