♪ ♪ come be a part of it. plan your next vacation at iloveny.com airplanes. as ukraine puts up a fierce defense, russia turns its guns on the innocent. >> you can feel the mines when they're falling and when they're close, because it's like this -- >> cities like mariupol are being flattened. >> i don't want to go through that because, like, we couldn't sleep. >> with russia hitting an art

school this morning where people were hiding days after bombing a theater with children, trapping hundreds. president biden attacks vladimir putin personally. >> he is a war criminal. >> as zelenskyy presses putin for peace talks. >> being a leader of a nation means being a leader. my guest this morning, secretary jens stoltenberg, senator chris murphy and representative liz cheney. people are hoping for a gas holiday, but is that really a good idea? correspondent andrea mitchell,

"washington post" columnist david ignatius, chief correspondent amna nawaz and shane harris. if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." >> announcer: this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. and a good sunday morning. with much of their advance stalled, russian forces continue to turn their guns and missiles on civilians. in recent days they've hit a theater that was clearly identified as filled with children. hundreds remain unaccounted for. russians have bombed apartment buildings in city after city to spread terror, even targeting bread lines and food storage facilities with the clear intention of starving the populace into submission. overnight russia bombed an art school in mariupol. 400 people were hiding there.

president biden has called vladimir putin a war criminal, and in the white house he warned china, xi jinping, of severe repercussions if china decides to aid them militarily or voluntarily. zelenskyy is president of the ukranian people and will remain so after this big war, but putin refuses to meet with zelenskyy. does he want to flatten it so nobody can have it? we have chief correspondent richard engel. richard, it seems like this week is the week russia amped up missile strikes. are they no longer trying to use a ground invasion to take over kyiv? >> reporter: here in kyiv, the mood has changed significantly. people are coming out onto the

streets, they're feeling much more confident, but everything in the city feels like it's in a bit of suspended reality. nobody is working, the economy has more or less stopped, nobody is paying taxes. people aren't making plans for the future, they're just making weapons in their homes while the russian offensive is paused. but the expectation is that russia is just refitting, rearming, regrouping and that it plans to hit this city and other cities with even more ferocity as it brings in heavier weapons. russia is already starting to use heavier weapons. it used the hypersonic missile, which caught a lot of people's attention, but the concern is that they will bring in the heavy artillery pieces that will do the most damage. this is typical russian operating procedure. when it hits a wall, it brings in bigger hammers to smash through that wall. but here in kyiv for the time being, they are seeing something of a respite and also using this time to refit and restock up on

supplies. >> so if it's possible putin has decided maybe he can't get kyiv or keep what he has or try to make some incremental gains in the south, what do these peace talks look like? and who is now the best mediator? >> reporter: turkey is emerging far and away as the clearest mediator with president erdogan. he has a relationship with president putin. he's a nato member, so he's trusted by both sides. but he has also had strained relations with the united states which could help him with putin, sees clearly emerged as the interloquitor. so far putin does seem to make some kind of deal that would include denazification, something that says he rejects

all sorts of extremism, that he agreed to neutrality, that president putin has agreed to, that he won't join nato, but it could include the south, including mariupol, and that so far seems tore the biggest sticking point. >> that might be a bridge too far for putin. richard engel, thank you. clint joins me now. clint, do you di new military strategy hereat least a stalling of their ground invasion, if you will? >> that's right, chuck. this is clearly in phase 2, which is reorganize, consolidate, bring forces back together, take some of their armor units. some of these armor units you see in and around sumy were near

decimated. so they're bringing those back, patching together those army units so they can make another advance. separately the east is really where the fight is happening right now. you've seen major battles in and around kyiv. not only there they're moving in two directions, essentially, trying to link up in and around the area known as izium. that would link together all this territory here, and what vladimir putin has said from the start is he wants all of donbas to be essentially secured and russian. separately, this is mariupol where you're seeing the absolute devastation, and the bigger story is what the folks are seeing in the south, they know in kyiv it's going to get tough, and what they know through all this, chuck, is it's becoming mud season. when you look at some of the things going on in the east, as these bogs thaw out, these tanks are stuck in the mud. so for them they see, hey, it may be too much to get to kyiv, let's focus on the south, which is the bigger picture at this

point. the land bridge has been essentially secured, connecting crimea and this donbas region. separately, mykolaiv, that's where the devastating missile strike was overnight, they're going to try to go here and encircle odesa. that's the next fight to watch. >> clint watts who has been studying this for us. clint, thank you. joining me now from brussels is nato secretary general jens stoltenberg. he will be joining president biden on tuesday for an in-person meeting. thank you for coming on "meet the press." >> thank you for having me. >> how serious have these talks become and what role is turkey playing? you heard my report from my colleague richard engel that they're taking a bigger role in this. what can you tell us, sir? >> first of all, we have to remember that this is president putin's war, and he can end it

now, and that's what we all call on russia to do. and, of course, we welcome all efforts to negotiate a peaceful solution. president erdogan in turkey is doing some work trying to facilitate talks between russia and ukraine. but it's far too early to say whether these talks can lead to any concrete outcome. >> we've seen an increased targeting of civilians, mr. secretary general, in ukraine. how long can nato stand by and watch russia target civilians without finding a way to help more when it comes to the ukranian resistance? >> nato allies are stepping up their support to ukraine, partly by delivering military support,

humanitarian support, billions of national support to ukraine and sanctions on russia to ensure president putin is paying a high price for this totally unjustified, senseless war over the war in ukraine. and nato allies have actually trained and supported ukranian armed forces for years, trained tens of thousands of ukranian forces, special operations forces to control logistics. all of these seem important now. these troops are on the front line fighting against their invading russian troops, so the support allies have brought over the years, putin being extremely important. >> if there is a peace deal that

gives russia a piece of ukraine, essentially, are you concerned that that will reward russia for this aggression? >> ukraine is an independent sovereign nation, and i have full trust in president zelenskyy and the government in making the right judgments of what kind of peace talks they should engage in and what kind of agreements they can agree to. our responsibility is to support ukraine as we do in many different ways, but also ensure that this conflict not spiral out of control or expand and escalate beyond ukraine. that's also why we have significantly increased our major presence in the eastern part of the alliance. >> i want to ask you about tuesday's meeting in the agenda. first thing, have you invited president zelenskyy to attend remotely? >> we haven't yet decided on the

exact format of that summit. it will take place on thursday next week with president biden and all the other leaders. i'm in regular contact with a nato ally, nato leaders are in contact with president zelenskyy, and i think the meeting of all heads of state in government will provide another platform to demonstrate our unity, our support to ukraine, but also our willingness to protect and defend all nato allies. by sending that message, we are preventing an escalation of the conflict of full-fledged war between nato and russia. and i'd also like to commend and thank president biden on his leadership throughout this crisis. the increased presence of troops in europe are, of course, welcomed by all allies. >> back in the mid-'90s, there

was a lot of talk that nato was not going to intervene in the crisis in central europe until the crisis got so bad that nato ended up getting involved. is the no-fly zone offer the table forever in ukraine, or would the use of chemical weapons make nato rethink? >> allies support ukraine. but at the same time, it is extremely important that we prevent this conflict becoming a full-fledged war between nato and russia, because that will cause much more damage, much more death, destruction than what we see now in ukraine. russia is a nuclear power. president putin is now -- knowledgeable of the dangers that are nuclear, and we're

increasing demands in the sea and air. the u.s. have now 100,000 troops in europe, and there are tens of thousands of troops in the eastern part of the alliance to send the message that escalation beyond ukraine will be met with a very firm response from the whole alliance, and by doing that, we are preventing conflict, not provoking conflict in europe. >> russia's use of chemical weapons, would that be considered, though, an escalation on his part that would make nato rethink? >> our core responsibility is to protect 1 billion people nato-allied countries, and we are doing that by increasing the presence in the east on the part of the alliance. i also believe that regardless of how this conflict now ends, we are faced with a new reality, a new security reality, where

russia more openly contests core values for our security and are willing to use military force to achieve its objectives. therefore, we need to reset our deterrence on events and start discussing in nato next week in brussels is how we do the more long-term adaptation, long-term reset on defense. >> it does sound like what you're saying is you don't have an answer yet on what the use of chemical weapons would do on nato's stance on ukraine? >> any use of chemical weapons will be a blatant and brutal violation of national law, the ban on the use of chemical weapons. at the same time we know that russia has used chemical agents in europe before against their own political opponents, and russia has been facilitating supporting the regime in syria

where chemical weapons has been used. this is something we take extremely serious, but at the same time we are very much aware that we need to act in a way that prevents this conflict from going from being an ugly, horrific conflict in ukraine to something that turns out to be a full-fledged war between nato and russia in europe and also potentially involving, of course, the united states. that will be extremely dangerous and is exactly what we need to prevent. >> secretary general jens stoltenberg, i appreciate you sharing your perspective with us. joining me now is senator chris murphy. senator, welcome back to "meet the press." he did not want to say that chemical weapons was a red line. is chemical weapons a red line

for the united states government in your mind? should it be for the biden administration when it comes to whether we do a no-fly zone and get more involved in ukraine militarily? >> i think we need to make clear to the russians that our level of commitment to the ukrainians and our position in this conflict will be proportional to the tactics that russia used inside ukraine. there is no doubt we have dramatically stepped up the transfer of weapons to ukraine since the russians have become this brutal campaign of targeting civilians. we have sent drones, we have sent new anti-tank missiles, a billion dollars of assistance in the last week. i don't think the united states needs to draw specific red lines today, i think we just need to make clear to the russians that our involvement in this war is going to increase if their tactics targeting civilians also increase. >> do we have to get to the uncomfortable position that putin may remain in power, get a piece of ukraine, and we get a

peace deal and zelenskyy stays in power? it's an uncomfortable result, but it seems if peace talks are serious, we could land in that uncomfortable zone. >> peace talks are uncomfortable, and this is a terrible position zelenskyy is in because he sees what's happening. ukrainians have made advances in and around kyiv and these assaults on the cities will get worse, getting putin to make a peace deal. president zelenskyy is not in agreement, but if he makes a decision for peace, the allies will stand with him. i think neutrality is on the table, i think increased power to these eastern regions should be on the table.

annexation will be a tough pill for zelenskyy to swallow and the united states will support whatever approach he decides to take. >> are we going to move back incrementally if there is some sort of cease fire? if putin agrees with talks this week, we might have to. how will that work? will he be someone like fidel castro in power? >> no, we should not allow vladimir putin back into the world order, but we should also be wise to the fact that this is the moment to make united states, europe, the rest of the world independent of the product that russia makes, oil and gas. and if we don't do that, you ultimately will be forced to keep him at the table. >> president biden called vladimir putin a war criminal this week. there are a lot of people that agree with that assessment but question whether the president himself should have personalized it. where are you on this? >> i don't think you can do anything other than call

vladimir putin a war criminal. what he is doing right now, as we speak, targeting children, maternity wards, schools inside ukraine clearly crosses a line. what we're seeing -- >> we're going to negotiate with a war criminal. that is what's difficult here, right? we didn't negotiate with malosevich. >> this is ultimately a decision zelenskyy is going to make. this is a moment where we need to come together in washington around president biden. president biden is showing moral leadership, just like president zelenskyy is showing moral leadership. i have a lot of colleagues who are using their time to protest against the senate while president biden is standing up there and doing the right thing. i'm proud of president biden drawing a moral line. i would rather have my colleagues supporting him rather than attacking him. >> the first time you and i talked publicly about ukraine was during the first trump impeachment. one of your colleagues was ron

johnson. he said something interesting this week that i wanted to get your reaction to.onally think i trump had met with zelenskyy, never made the phone call, i think the two of them would have hit it out beautifully. this seems to be senator johnson admitting that the situation in ukraine would be different had trump handled it different. is he right? do you agree with him? >> listen, we lost four years of cooperation. had ukraine not been a political poker chip during the trump administration, we could have been increasing our level of military commitment to ukraine. i don't know if i can sit here today and say things would have been different. i think ultimately president putin wanted to control ukraine, and he was going to stop at nothing in order to bring it back into russian orbit. and so, yes, i think ukraine

would be in a better position to defend itself today had trump not played games during those four years, but i'm not sure that anything was going to stop vladimir putin from moving troops into ukraine. >> is this the right time to do the iran deal? >> there is no choice but to do the iran deal. >> do you trust the russians? this is a case where we're working with the russians on this. it seems like a bad time to do that. >> cut the russians out. the material that was moving from russia, there are other countries that can take it. you don't need the blessing of them to get this deal done. imagine what happens if iran is a nuclear power. >> so you're good with doing this if we keep russia completely out of the deal. >> if they're in the deal or out of the deal, we cannot allow iran to obtain a nuclear weapon. that sets off a nuclear arms

race in the middle east, and i don't understand how my republican colleagues, having watched what vladimir putin can get away with with nuclear weapons, would want to watch it in the mideast. >> thank you for being on. >> thank you. >> looking to get back in your type 2 diabetes zone? once-weekly ozempic® can help. ♪ oh, oh, oh, ozempic®! ♪ ♪ oh, oh, oh ♪ ozempic® is proven to lower a1c. most people who took ozempic® reached an a1c under 7 and maintained it. and you may lose weight. adults lost on average up to 12 pounds. in adults also with known heart disease, ozempic® lowers the risk of major cardiovascular events such as heart attack, stroke, or death. ozempic® helped me get back in my type 2 diabetes zone. ozempic® isn't for people with type 1 diabetes. don't share needles or pens, or reuse needles. don't take ozempic® if you or your family ever had medullary thyroid cancer, or have multiple endocrine neoplasia syndrome type 2, or if allergic to it.

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congresswoman liz cheney has become something of an outlyer in this version of the republican party. she represents a more traditional, hawkish wing of the gop when many of the party have ormer president t, isolationist personal first approach. liz cheney has joined the congressional inquiry on january 6th. congresswoman, welcome back to "meet the press."

>> great to be with you. thank you, chuck. >> let me start with a question that i asked the nato secretary general, senator murphy and i'll ask you. do we need to engage in this with russia? >> i think we do. we need to make it clear that we are considering all options, nothing that would alter our calculations, and we shouldn't be in the business of -- some have called it self-deterrence. putin's actions so far have demonstrated that the russian military is nowhere near as capable as the world perhaps thought it was, probably not as capable as putin thought it was,

and they need to understand that if the brutality here increases, the united states will contemplate and consider every possible range of actions, along with our nato allies. i think it's important that they know that we will contemplate changing the calculation in terms of humanitarian challenges, the humanitarian devastation the ukranian people are facing. >> congresswoman, we seem to be in a bit of a conundrum with putin. he is extraordinarily weak right now on one hand. it's clear, as you pointed out, his military is not what he thought it was, and yet he is cornered and he does have nuclear weapons. so i guess the thing is, are you going to be comfortable if president zelenskyy comes to some sort of truce with him that caudifies some of ukraine into his hands, essentially rewarding him for this aggression? what is that line we strike there not awarding him for aggression but trying to get peace here? >> well, i think you've put your

finger on that, chuck. i think it's very important that putin not reap any rewards at all for this aggression. i think territorial gains would be a reward for him. i think that we cannot be in a situation where, you know, the security and the peace that has been guaranteed, really, since 1945 on the continent of europe suddenly now powers believe that by the kind of onslaught that you've seen, the kind of war crimes, the kind of brutality you've seen putin unleash that they can gain from that. i think it's time for nato to be clear. obviously we're going to support president zelenskyy, but we need to make it clear that putin ought not benefit or gain from the actions he's taken. >> it's less on the actions that have been taken and more on the rhetoric that they've said or not said. you know, for instance, allowing the appearance that putin gets

to dictate the terms of engagement here. is there something more substantial you would be doing other than changing rhetoric right now? >> many things. first of all, i would completely stop the negotiations that are underway for reentering this iranian nuclear deal. it is absolutely indefensible to be in a situation right now where we're, number one, contemplating giving the iranians billions of dollars in sanctions relief, giving them a nuclear weapon. that number is going to be used to not only destabilize the world, it also benefits russia directly. and russia, as you pointed out, is organizing those talks as a negotiation. >> what do you think of senator murphy saying, cut the russians out, do this deal without them? is that possible? >> i completely disagree with

senator murphy's concept that we should be doing this deal. it is wrong to be doing this deal no matter what. it is certainly indefensible with the russians in the middle of it given they are a pariah state, that putin is a war criminal. even if they weren't in the middle of it, this is absolutely the wrong time to be providing a windfall to the iranian. and the deal does not stop them from getting a nuclear weapon, it gives them access to a nuclear weapon. that deal should be stopped immediately. >> i'm going to put up what adam kinzinger said. he said he didn't vote but he regrets he didn't vote in the ukranian situation. you know you think the case hadn't been made. but i'm curious, you're on this january 6 committee. you've seen all the different ways circumstantially that president trump acted and reacted. in hindsight, does it not seem

con hold money hostage for his own indeed, an impeachable offense? >> i believe, chuck, all of us who were in positions of public trust have an obligation to the constitution, so having sat through watching the hearings, watching the evidence that was put on for the first impeachment, the end of the day the evidence that was put on didn't make the case. the january 6 situation and attack is obviously something that was fundamentally different. we all watched that unfold in realtime. we all lived through that attack. but i will say the january 6 committee is very much focused on lessons learned from that first impeachment, and very much focused on making sure the american people have all the facts and the truth about what happened. >> let me ask you about that, finally, just before i let you go, which is the public expose that you guys are eventually going to do. is this going to -- you say it's going to make recommendations.

are we going to -- should we expect criminal referrals on this, and should we expect something -- how much new do you think the public will learn that will actually change the way they thought about january 6? >> i think certainly our first priority is to make recommendations, and we're looking at things like do we need additional enhanced criminalies for the kind of supreme dereliction of duty that you saw with president trump when he refused to tell the mob to go home after he had provoked that attack on the capitol. so there will be legislative recommendations and there certainly will be information. i can tell you, i have not learned a single thing since i have been on this committee that has made me less concerned or less worried about the gravity of the situation and the actions that president trump took and also refused to take while the attack was underway. >> well, that's quite a statement and i think i'm going to let that stand as the end of this interview. congresswoman liz cheney, i appreciate you coming on and

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welcome back. nbc news chief correspondent andrea mitchell, "washington post" david ignatius, shane harris and chief correspondent amna nawaz. china, the role they may or may not play here. the good news is the readout says they were at least on the same phone call. sometimes they're not. all side need to jointly support russia and ukraine in having dialogue and negotiation that will produce results and lead to peace. the white house emphasized they warned china don't help the russians. he described the implications if china offered support to russia. watch what they do, not what

they say. but what they said indicated something, andrea. >> they had to separate taiwan out and also because president biden, frankly, last october in a town hall was a little bit off the china policy. he was less ambiguous than previous presidents. talking to individuals on both sides, first of all saying that the u.s. and china have at stake as security councilmembers in working something out, not just nato and the u.s. with russia. but also nobody really thinks that despite russia's request, which the u.s. leaked, again leaking intelligence, no one really thinks that china was going to provide weapons. but this was sort of a don't do

it. it's drones, it's the money. >> they've done that for north korea in the past. >> exactly. it's the material support. when they said material support, they don't want that. and the fact is secretary blinken actually met with the chinese ambassador. >> after the call? >> after the call. in person. he was going to see deputy secretary seen as a neutral broker and they don't want to be seen as embracing the civilian horrors that we are seeing. they're not at all happy about it. >> do you think putin received the message that china is not going to be his lifeline? >> putin must be, should be worried that china's only meaningful ally is distancing itself. that's the way i read this call, that china wants to distance itself enough from putin that it isn't taken down with this invasion of ukraine. in a sense the biggest obstacle,

xi's dream, emerging as a true leader, so i think the call was part of a number of things we have seen. there is a very explicit op-ed written about the chinese ambassador saying we are not on board. we agree in territorial integrity and sovereignty. if i were putin, i would be worried about my erstwhile china. >> what are they going to do, amna? >> there are economic sanctions and steps they can take. >> what's left on the sanctions front? >> complete removal from the swiss financial system, the knock-on effects of all of this are something they're all deeply weighing. nobody has been hit harder than usual -- russia and the russian

people but also european nations. any european official you talk to, any american official -- >> you heard the two american representatives. they're ready to go to war. i'm not saying -- they don't want to, but, boy, the nato secretary general seemed to -- chemical weapons was not going to be a red line. >> right, violation of international law, and we saw that in syria. let's be clear on the line we saw in syria and the brutal line of aaleppo. >> sometimes biden says things, as she pointed out -- let's take a look at this clip. this was intentional.

>> are you ready to call putin a war criminal? >> no. >> oh, i think he is a war criminal. >> that was absolutely intentional. that's not off the cuff. when the president says it now, it's policy, even though previously officials in his administration have been reluctant to do that. practically speaking, i'm not sure it really matters all that much. we're not a party to the international criminal court. >> we have to negotiate with a war criminal? >> this is where it creates immoral am ambiguity. we're not going to get involved with civilians? it makes individuals look more feckless. you pressed stoltenberg five different ways on this. he won't even say nuclear weapons are a red line. >> day after day i was

questioning the spokesman about is he a war criminal? look what's happening. he kept saying, we're investigating reports of war crimes. >> we believe he's committed war crimes but they haven't called him a war criminal. >> then the u.n. ambassador says it, and she said she was speaking from the heart. but then when the president said it, then it became policy, as shane says, and it became policy and you're going to end up negotiating with vladimir putin no matter what happens. >> at the end of the day, this will require an offramp, it will require a negotiation. for putin especially, a person who takes things so personally, who just feels humiliated, slighted, obviously has this huge chip on his shoulder, to make an ad hoc attack, i don't think it was preplanned. >> i do think people have been trying to get him to up his rhetoric in general skperks

-- and he grabbed that. >> that was joe biden. he is a war criminal and you ask him, so he says, yeah, he is. >> but after seeing mariupol and after seeing that video that day, they felt, and he felt, that he could no longer -- it sounded too legalistic and too cute by half -- >> it is a legal definition. that's something prosecutors have to figure out. the u.n. has new numbers this morning, 6.5 million ukrainianss immediately displaced on top of 2 million refugees. >> just don't close doors to the settlement that's necessary to keep that country from being destroyed and to prevent escalation into something that's a nightmare. when we come back, we're going to look at a lighter story, literally. should daylight saving time become permanent? it just might. as we go to break, though, i want to note the passing on friday of alaska congressman don

young. young was the longest serving republican ever in the house of representatives and he was best known for bringing federal projects, earmarks or pork barrel to his state. former speaker john baynor said mr. young once pinned him to a wall and put a knife on his throat, upset about a lost earmark. baynor would joke that the bigger the story became, the big thanks for coming. now when it comes to a financial plan this broker is your man. let's open your binders to page 188... uh carl, are there different planning options in here? options? plans we can build on our own, or with help from a financial consultant? like schwab does. uhhh... could we adjust our plan... ...yeah, like if we buy a new house? mmmm... and our son just started working. oh! do you offer a complimentary retirement plan for him? as in free? just like schwab. schwab! look forward to planning with schwab.

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welcome back. it's "data download" time. the senate appeared to put aside its partisan differences this week when seemingly out of nowhere they unanimously passed a measure that would make daylight saving time permanent. in other words, no more springing ahead or falling back with our clocks for an hour would suddenly be a year-long practice. we wouldn't do it anymore. so as we wait to see what the senate and house do with the proposed idea, let's look back at how we regulate time in washington. in 1966, we made it uniform,

when different states were trying their own version of daylight saving time. we tried making it instead of six months to six months, eight to four. we did try daylight saving time. it went so well we repealed it in less than two years. there's a reason it didn't go so well. i'll tell you in a minute. president biden is sort of torn on this. 35% would like to see it. 13% would like to see it go back to daylight saving time. but this impacts people in different places. here's the western pacific time zone. las vegas' sunrise would get close to 8:00 a.m. look what would happen to seattle. it would be nearly 9:00 a.m. it would wreak havoc on kids walking to school or at bus

stops. sunrise would move to 8:15 in boston. nearly an hour later would the sun rise in detroit. the state of florida not really impacted. not too far to the east, not too far to the west in that time zone. kind of easy for florida. kind of harder for many other parts of the northern tier. when we come back, with gas prices soaring, more than 20 states are considering or have already enacted a (fisher investments) in this market, you'll find fisher investments is different than other money managers. (other money manager) different how? aren't we all just looking for the hottest stocks? (fisher investments) nope. we use diversified strategies to position our client's portfolios for their long-term goals. (other money manager) but you still sell investments that generate high commissions for you, right? (fisher investments) no, we don't sell commission products. we're a fiduciary, obligated to act in our client's best interest. (other money manager) so when do you make more money, only when your clients make more money? (fisher investments) yep. we do better when our clients do better. at fisher investments, we're clearly different.

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welcome back. the biggest domestic political fallout from this war is gas prices. we are up to some two dozen states that are considering gas tax holidays, one right here in neighboring maryland already has done it, georgia has already done it. it's hard to say no to these as a politician, shane, is it not? >> absolutely, and it's something the states can do unilaterally, right? they can take a bigger chunk out of the gas prices than the federal gas price can be. at the end of the day, it's not going to dramatically lower the price at the pump, though. oil is sold on the global market, it's an indexed price. it can make people feel really good and the government can say, hey, i'm doing something for you and make the president look a

little weaker, but it's a band-aid. >> first of all, there is no guarantee legally that the producers or the retailers will pass that break on to the consumers. second of all, it gets people to drive more when supplies are short so it's going to pump up prices overall because it's inflationary. third, it's climate policy. >> it's a $20 billion hit on the highway trust fund if everyone did it. but the other thing is the tax and that's what senate and other house members are really looking at. but that would get producers to produce less. so there's really no -- >> the issue is the oil supply. i've got to ask, david, is the iran deal, is some of the motivation here about increasing some supply, too? is this why we're still -- >> i don't think it's the reason. there is a genuine desire,

obviously, to cap the running nuclear program again. but that is a side benefit. the administration had hoped that our erstwhile saudi friends might help out by pumping a little more out. that doesn't seem to be happening. i just have to say about gas prices. i know that this is a big political issue, but there is a sense of disproportion. as europe inflames, are our gas prices going to go up by another 50 cents? >> the political leaders have to then make that case, though. i don't disagree. you have to say that and we kind of say, hey, it's going to take some sacrifice. by the way, the administration is thinking about passing out gas cards. you want to talk about messing up the supply, that would have done that. >> gas prices are the easy thing to point to, both for republicans who are looking to make a point against this president and also for people to say, how am i feeling day to

day. inflation more largely remains the biggest issue for most americans. that said, americans are really following what's going on in ukraine. right now is a moment for president biden and this administration to lead on the foreign stage in a way they have not been able to after the disastrous withdrawal from afghanistan. americans right now broadly support america doing something to bolster ukraine. >> i think this is going to be the pressure that continues to build the more you see horrific images of schools, of maternity wards, of people sheltering in place from relentless russian shelling, dying in the rubble. there is going to be a momentum that builds toward that. the president could go out and start building that momentum. he could make a case for doing more. he's been very reluctant to do it. but then he calls putin a war criminal. you'll have to square that with your policy. >> in making that point, there is a real concern about the nuclear breakthrough moment, and that they have to do something.

>> it feels like if they get it, people will blame him for not being in the deal, and if they don't get it, people will blame for not getting in the deal. >> this war in ukraine will get to the uselessness of having nuclear weapons. that's why we're not being more aggressive toward russia. would russia have attacked ukraine with nuclear weapons? no, it wouldn't have. if you're iran, if you're saudi arabia, go down the list. every country is going to say, oh, i get it, i have to have nuclear weapons. next week is the debut of judge brown jackson. this is where it feels like it's going to be an afterthought. it's going to be in our old ways of describing the force story. does that matter? does that hurt president biden politically because he doesn't

really get an afterglow? >> the question is does this have a rally effect. democrats want to get it over with, anyway. they can still ask her about a lot of things. i think in many ways it's going to be a repeat of the hearing she went through a year ago. a lot of the same issues will come up, not a lot has changed since then and the lens has completely refocused. >> now they feel they have to be in lockstep against her. the other thing is it's not going to change the character of the court because she's replacing breyer, so it's a liberal for a liberal, and it's not going to change votes on the court. it is an historic moment, though, and we shouldn't overlook that. >> i completely agree and that's why we wanted to make a quick note of it here. thank you, all. a terrific panel. that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. my bracket is busted and i didn't even make it through the day. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." we're all st. peters peacocks

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a manifester redirecting the future of silicon valley's most important magazine. next enew a startup competes for the x prize of education trying to find the best way to teach in trying times. and artificial intelligence shows up in show media. that's this week on "press: here." ♪♪ ♪♪ good morninryone. i'm scott mcgrew. i started