. this sunday, party boss. donald trump previews his vision for a second term an agenda that

proved divisive with swing voters in 2022. >> would you sign a federal abortion ban into o law. >> i would negotiate so that people are happy. >> after a town hall peddling election lies, promising to pardon january 6 rioters and refusing to pick sides in the war on ukraine, his 2024 rivals remain largely silent. >> can you say if you want ukraine or russia to win this war? >> i want everybody to stop dying. >> as the field of challengers grows, can any of his rivals take him on without alienating his supporters. i'll talk to former republican will herd of texas who is considering his own bid for texas in 2024. plus moral compass. after a jury found trump liable for sexual abuse, his opponents mostly silent. >> i don't think it's where the american people are focused. >> does character matter anymore for republican primary voters? i'll ask russell moore, the editor in chief of christianity today. >> and border crisis.

>> i want to be very clear. our borders are not open. >> as the biden administration braces for a surge at the southern border, it's democrats that are divided. >> i oppose the biden administration plan to end title 42. will the president listen to his base or those close to the political center? i'll talk to democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. joining me for insight and analysis are new york times white house correspondent peter baker, politico playbook co-uthor rachel bade, and republican strategist al carden as and kimberly atkins stohr, senior opinion writer. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. >> good sunday morning and a happy mother's day to all of the moms out there. what we saw this week is a republican party that is paralyzed by donald trump. elected republicans and trump's

2024 rivals are eager to move on, but not sure how to take on trump and are terrified of alienating their supporters and the paralysis in the party has been key to donald trump's streak. ron desantis who is having to reboot his campaign before it's gotten off the ground invited a political columnist to tallahassee last week letting reporters he does plan to announce really, really soon and yet he tiptoed around his criticism with trump, never mentioning him by name. >> we must reject the culture of losing that has infected our party in recent years. the time for excuses is over. if we get distracted, if we focus the election on the past or other side issues then i think the democrats are going to beat us again. >> desantis came to iowa with all of the presidential trappings and even had a bus wrapped with join team desantis for president and it's a

question whether trump supporters accept the premise that desantis was arguing there that donald trump has been losing and after donald trump was found liable for sexual abuse his opponents barely blinked and perhaps spooked by the public reaction to the indictment. even mike pence arguing that a president of the united states should be held to the highest moral standards defended him. >> it's just one more story focusing on my former running mate that i know is a great fascination to members of the national media, but i just don't think where the american people are focused. >> well, whether it's the american people or republican primary voters, in our recent nbc news poll a whopping 68% of republican voters believe the multiple investigations into trum are politically motivated and republicans need to defend him and perhaps pence is responding to those numbers because it was 26% who said the party needs to find a different nominee who won't be distracted. the republican party who once

punished a president over an affair with an intern no longer finds moral disqualifying. he was likely to turn off swing voters. he called the insurrection a beautiful day and said he would pardon many of the rioters and democrats don't agree with massive cuts and refused to answer whether he wants russia or ukraine to win the war or whether putin is committing war crimes and a war criminal. he was so honored to overturn roe v. wade and the only person he appears to be helping is joe biden whose polling problems would be magnifieded without the circus that surrounds trump and this would be the start of a very difficult summer with the border and debt ceiling testing him and the uncomfortable compromises that they're likely to have to make simply do no

further political damage. with biden struggling in the polls and including kristen sinema are finding it easier to criticize him right now. >> they made the decision to end title 42 today. they also made the decision to not prepare for the end of title 42. >> i oppose the biden admin station plan without a real plan in place for a strain on an already broken immigration system. >> thanks for having me. >> this title 42 issue this has the fingerprints of two congress on it and two administrations. what can be done right now to give you confidence that the administration can handle this. >> title 42 is required to be lifted by law, right? title 42 allows you to stop individuals from presenting at the border and applying for asylum and now that the pandemic

is over the president doesn't have discretion to keep title 42 in place. that the president act outside of his authority, in this case they seemingly want him to violate the law and turn people away at the border. he is not sitting on his hands like the republicans allege. he's been actively engaged in trying to manage this crisis. he has negotiated important agreements with mexico so that mexico takes more of these migrants. he has surged thousands of troops and asylum officials and border patrol to the border to handle this emergency and he's put in place a really tough, new rule that some say goes beyond his authority if they don't apply for asylum before you get to the united states we will turn you right back around. that doesn't mean that we won't have a lot of people showing up at the border because that's a consequence of having two years in which males, single adults couldn't apply for asylum, but it's just simply not true that

the president has not done to try to be as ready as possible. >> i understand about the preparation for this moment, but politically, other than introducing a bill on day one he never talked about it. he didn't lean his shoulder in, build back better was the focus, everything else was the focus and look the republicans have dirtier hand, but the democrats don't have clean hands on this either. >> republicans have had multiple opportunities to come to the table and pass immigration reform that would fix the problem at the border. while you have a small group of republicans who want to engage, the majority delights at chaos at the border. they rushed down to the border to take smiling photographs with the border patrol essentially celebrating the fact that there was chaos because there's political gain to be had. they are not democrats sitting

on the sidelines on title 42. >> it's gotten more support for democrats particularly the ones on the ballot for 2024, and perhaps you are, too, though not as purple of a state as others and would you be reluctantly supportive of that if you thought it was needed? >> i'm not because that pushes the problem down the line and that gives you one or two more years of individuals being denied entry. whenever title 42 is lifted you will have the temporary problem of massive numbers of new people at the border and by the way, republicans have been castigating the president for not lifting covid restrictions fast enough. the only covid restrictions they seem to want to keep in place is the ones that keeps people that don't look like them from coming into the argument. >> why do you think the argument hasn't worked to get republicans to the table? there is inflation problem and make one case with the free money issue with the fed and make a case there, what's the

issue about the labor shortage and it's having an issue on wages. that is our problem and yet there is no impact. >> there is still an opportunity at least in the senate for bipartisan immigration reform, maybe not the size of the bill in 2013, but i do think there are a group of republicans in the senate who recognize that we have this massive labor shortage everywhere in the country you see help wanted signs and there's an ability to help the american economy by letting more people into the country illegally. i wouldn't be surprised if you see some discussions begin in the senate in the wake he last o find some common ground. >> you think in a piecemeal direction. it will always be piecemeal and throw it away. >> i think you have to do the pieces that are most urgent and to me that's border security and asylum reform and that's doing something about the dreamers who

are here and need help. >> debt ceiling, it seems the white house is not on the table, and they're debating between two years, ten years. are you comfortable with a deal like that or do you think if you're going to cut a deal on spending that maybe tax hikes ought to be a part of it? >> well, if we want to get serious about deficit reduction then you have to put tax increases for billionaires and corporations on the table. that's why i'm pretty skeptical that there will be an agreement in the next two weeks. >> even a punted agreement for three months? >> what worries me is chuck schumer, joe biden and mitch mcconnell said if we can't get an agreement in the next few weeks default is off the table. the only leader that says we will light the american economy on fire if we don't get an agreement in the ten to 14 days is kevin mccarthy and that is deafly worrying to me because there's an opportunity to talk about their really unpopular agenda of cuts, but the time to

do that is when we're negotiating the budget. >> would you start invoking the 14th amendment and start paying the bills now if you were joe biden in order to essentially launch the legal discussion about the 14th amendment? >> i don't want to give joe biden advice, but i think we should do our job. i think that's a precedent to just absolve congress from being adults. >> i want to talk about the issue of guns and, look, this has been something that you've been working on for quite some time trying to make small increases for gun legislation or big ones and we saw another courtroom that invoked and said there's not much you can do because of the second amendment and this diversion and interpretation of the second amendment. given that we have a court system that this is how it's going to be. how do you tackle gun legislation under this environment? do you go for a constitutional amendment or do just hope judges' philosophies change over

the next generation? >> right now the supreme court has made it clear under the heller decision which still control, they say there is a right to private gun ownership and there's an ability for congress to legislate who owns weapons and what kind of weapons are owned and i think we need to operate under that construct and i see progress. we broke a 30-year logjam by breaking the initiative. wooe seen republican stateds like tennessee looking at red flag laws and texas considering raising the age to buy assault weapons and i think our movement has a position to win. does it worry me what district courts are doing? absolutely, but right now our focus has to be on growing the movement and capitalize. >> you have do it within the construct of look, you will probably not be able to regulate much having to access to the gun. >> if the supreme court eventually says that states or the congress can't pass

universal background checks or can't take assault weapons off the streets? i think there will be a popular revolt that's pretty illegitimate and in full crisis mode. >> i want to put up something from our last poll. the majority thought president biden shouldn't seek a second term and even democrats and they all pointed to the same thing, his age and his abilities to do the job. what gives you confidence that he's the best candidate the democrats can put up in 2024. >> so when we broke the 30-year logjam, 30 year action of guns it was that piece of legislation. joe biden was intimately involved. i talked to joe biden every three or four days and he maeld a bold decision to speak to the country when many of his advisers told him not to. that passed with joe biden's personal involvement and so i have seen how effective the president is and this narrative that the republicans are spinning is their best argument

against him because they can't argue on the merits and the policies he's passed. he's had the most successful policy agendas than any president in recent years. >> do you think that will translate in beating donald trump? >> joe biden reminds us that they're not a referendum and it is a choice. donald trump is advertising every day what an irresponsible choice he is. >> governor chris murphy, thank you for coming on. >> thank you. when we come back he wants his party to move on from trump and no one wts too take (vo)o) while e you may nonot be a pediatric c surgeon vovolunteeg yourur topiary t talents at a chilildren's s hospital - — your life e is just as uniquque. your r raymond jamames financl advivisor gets t to knknow you, yoyour passiononsd the way yoyou give bacack. so youou can live e your lif. that's s life well l planned.

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texas' 23rd district which is on the border between the u.s. and mexico in the house of representatives for three terms before choosing to leave in 2021. while in congress he famously drove 1600 miles from san antonio to d.c. with beto o'rourke streaming their bipartisan road trip on facebook live after their flights were canceled due it a snowstorm. after 19 children and two teachers were killed in uvalde mass shooting he called for universal background checks and a red flag law and he's calling for a republican party and he's thinking about his own presidential run and has made stops in iowa, new hampshire and congressman hurd joins me now. welcome back to "meet the press". >> thanks for having me and chuck, can i join you in wishing all these moms a happy mother's day. i was a mama's boy, and even if your kids don't tell you enough, you're awesome. >> i have texted my mother this

morning, right, mom? let me start with what we saw this week. one of your cases for running is that you don't think other people are making an effective case. why do you think what happened to donald trump in that e. jean carroll trial just sort of went away and was almost dismissed out of hand as if being irrelevant to the decision making of whether he should be the nominee of the gop? >> i can't give you a clear answer on why that didn't impact more people, but here's what i do know. even people that like donald trump and were proud to vote for him think that donald trump has a lot of baggage that's going to hurt republicans' chances in 2024. a lot of those voters believe that donald trump's mouth gets him in the way and prevents us from talking about issues that matter. you said at the top of your show, the gop lost the house in 2018. we lost the senate and the white house in 2020. the red wave that should have happened in 2022 didn't happen

and all that is because of donald trump. >> isn't this the information ecosystem? >> because this is where i heard -- you heard governor desantis make this case, hey, aren't you tired of losing. these voters don't believe they lost. that's part of the issue, isn't it? >> it's part of the issue, but the election is not today. i think this -- this fact and the cnn town hall he was just looking backwards. he's not looking to the future. he's not looking about how do we tackle things like inflation. what would he put forward to create -- to solve the border crisis. how will we make sure that america stays the most important country in the world and if we're constantly looking backwards, that's a losing strategy, but the election is many months away. >> you sound like a candidate in the before times, before there was trump. look, before donald trump came along i would have said hey, the candidate that speaks more optimistically. >> sure. >> -- always wins. that is not what happened.

he is totally inverted the idea. if you don't talk about the future you usually get punished and he doesn't. why do you think this is? >> i know why you're jaded and why you're concerned and here's the reality that i've learned criss-crossing the country. people believe in the united states of america. people want to stand up and be proud of their country. when you talk to individual voters, they care about our role in the rest of the world, and so -- don't be discouraged. the reality is the two-thirds of americans want someone other than donald trump and joe biden. that's the re-match from hell -- sorry, moms, i don't mean to say that, but nobody wants that. nobody wants that as a -- as their choice, and so there are better options out there, right? that's why we need to get more people voting in primaries. only about 23% of the country actually votes in primaries. if we had more people voting in primaries we'll see better

choices in november. choices that we would actually like and be excited to vote for. >> so, in some ways your political resume would have been the exactly the type of resume the republican party was looking for and you were in a swing district and you would have to appeal in a 50/50 district and the incentive structures don't seem to reward gets in center and the four most centrist senators, all right, if you look at the four, sinema, manchin, murkowski and romney are all more popular in their own party than the other party so it is very hard to be a centrist and be popular in your party. how do you change that structure? >> that wasn't the case and the reality for me when i was in congress. nobody thought a republican could win in a 07% latino district and how did i do that? i went to places that didn't identify necessarily with my

party, and i showed up, and here's what i've learned whether you're in ruby red towns or deep blue cities. people care about putting food on the table and a roof over their head and making sure the people they love are healthy, happy and safe. folks know that we're living in complicated times and we need a common sense solution to solve our problems and guess what? most americans know that we're better together. so the reality is yes. history has said these things are true, but my experiences are different, and it's a playbook on how to solve these problems and appeal to independents and democrats who are as frustrated as the democrat party is. that's our opportunity in 2024. >> let's talk about the border here. when you poll idea of increased border security and a pathway to citizenship with background checks you get 75 support across the board and including republicans. and yet there's this belief that if you compromise at all on

immigration and really immigration is not the only issue, but if you compromise a little bit you 70% of what you want and you don't get it all you will get primaried for it and so you can't -- so there's no incentive to solve the problem and how do you do that with immigration being the problem? >> there are too many elected officials that are constituents and they explain things to people because ultimately they're lazy and show up and talk about it. you're right. the solutions to the problems are there, it just requires political leadership. >> a will. >> a political will in order to bring this forward. i spent time when i was in congress trying to work on this issue and what's happening at this border is an absolute crisis and there are ways to solve the problem and there are ways to actually improve a streamlined immigration and have more people coming in and impact. >> they're all sitting on a shelf. this is one of those -- it's intractable, but the solutions are obvious and nobody will hold

hands and jump off the cliff. >> because we need people that are willing to go out there and sell some of these ideas. it's hard to explain how you solve immigration and the border crisis in 280 characters, but it requires people to go out and make that case and explain these common sense solutions to these complicated problems. >> i want to get your reaction to something that president biden said at his howard commencement. take a listen. >> the most dangerous threat to our homeland is white supremacy. >> your experience dealing with counter terrorism in the cia and in -- in the intelligence community, is he right about this? >> white supremacy is a problem, of course, and it's something that we shouldn't allow and be supportive and doesn't exist anywhere and it shouldn't be in our institutions and it shouldn't be in our country and it's another name to say racism, so yes, when you look at -- i

would extrapolate this a little bit further. when you look at most our senior military advisers and when they come to congress and explain what the biggest threat is, they always talk about the threat from within. oftentimes it's the chaos in our political process. it's an ability for the people to work together and get big things done and so, yes, racism doesn't exist. the fact that the tree of life, we're having that hearing, so i think it's a civil trial later this week. we shouldn't see the growth of that. >> i look at this guy who leaked all of these secrets and we're learning more about him and what motivated him and he clearly had some violent tendencies, and there were some -- what does the military need to improve its vetting process because there were plenty of yellow flags about this young man. it is pretty clear to me that a cursory investigation of him and a cursory background check would have kept him away from these sensitive files. that seems highly concerning.

>> unfortunately, when you look at throughout the entire federal government and the way we do background checks it's still like we're in 1992. i'll learn more from their digital profile than going to their neighbor ten years ago and knocking on the door. i should say hey, how do we let this person get in and oh, and by the way, why does someone like this have access to all this information? they weren't going to be deployed. they weren't currently being deployed. there are some questions about the access for that info. >> before i let you go, when do you plan on making a decision? >> the decision will be made about my future some time very soon. before or after memorial day. >> i think a decision on what their future in politics has to be done before memorial day. >> will hurd, former governor of

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>> welcome back. the panel is here. rachel bade, coauthor of politico playbook. peter baker from the new york times. al carden as and kimberly atkins stohr, senior opinion writer for the boston globe. i feel like the presidential race in the republican side are obviously where there was a lot of noise thanks to the town hall and we've got ron desantis and he had iowa to himself yesterday thanks to a weather issue with donald trump. let me play another excerpt. >> governing is not about entertaining. governing is not about building a brand or talking on social media and virtue signaling. it's ultimately about winning and about producing results. >> al, i'm going to start with you. what he said is a message that appeals to a lot of donors, but is that a message that appeals to primary voters right now? >> no. no. i mean, look, the whole thing

was, hey, ron desantis is perfect. he's donald trump without the baggage. that fell flat. that doesn't work. he has two choices, he either doesn't run and saves himself for '28 or if he's going to run he's going to get muddy and dirty, follow donald trump wherever he goes and hits him because no one is going to take away donald trump's votes unless they feel the voters, that is, that this person is stronger than donald trump. >> that's interesting. it does not seem to be a republican in the field that's ready to take that advice. >> it's still early with that caveat and what we're seeing is -- >> it's getting late early, though. >> as yogi might say. >> you have the other runners that are deciding what to do? do they stay right behind? do they try to dhal efrj him early and you're seeing all of these candidates trying to work that out and ron desantis had one thing and that isn't going well and they're trying to switch strategies and there's been only one primary involving

donald trump and that took everyone by surprise and no other candidate knew how to handle him and i don't think they know yet how to handle him now. >> you can't blame them if you look at these polls and there was a peel out a few days ago that showed only 7% of republican voters want to see a candidate that goes and attacks donald trump. it's a message that they don't want and that put these candidates specifically ron desantis in a really delicate position here. he can't attack him head-on, but he still has to make the argument that he's a better candidate. the desantis campaign is trying to do this delicate two-step dance where his outside super pac is playing the bad guy and going after trump, but then he's saying, look, i'm only going to talk policy here. will that work? >> peter, i don't know, to me it looks like they're announcing about on the timeline that they always wanted to have, but this looks like a team that is reacting, constantly reacting and now the campaign looks like are they moving the announcement up and now it's doing this and

it's not a way to start. >> they've lost control of the narrative. they had a pretty strong narrative going in and they don't have it now. let's step back for a minute. we've seen it before. there's always a swoon for the new candidate and then we get tired of them and sometimes they come back and sometimes they don't. we don't know is this a bill clinton or is this a rick perry, you know what i mean? is he going to fall flat and that's it. his strategy needs to be doing not so much which is to attack trump, but will trump defeat himself. wait and see what happens. we have three possible indietments still coming for donald trump and let's wait to see if trump falls short and then i'm there to pick up the pieces. >> al, what's shocking to me is how many donors after meeting with ron desantis, i'm still shopping. that's alarming for him. >> steve schwartzman doesn't beat around the bush.

the clue is how do you get notorious enough to be competitive. i like what asa hutchinson's doing. he's frontal. he's critical, and at the same time he seems rational. now can someone like that, you know, gain any traction in our party's primary? we'll see. >> all of this right now, and i want to put up some of the criticism that biden's been getting on title 42 mostly coming from senators up for re-election in 2024, and john tester, means standing up to anyone including president biden and joe manchin and the administration failed to secure a southern border and the irony is you get the sense that the republicans, they're distracted from focusing on biden because donald trump is a constant distraction. >> they also have their talking points on anything related to immigration, you know? with all respect to congressman hurd, it's the democrats who have to deal with the complexities of actually explaining how immigration

reform works and coalesce over that and that's difficult and republicans have boiled it down not just to 280 words, but to three. build a wall or stop amnesty and so they have that messaging locked and that leaves democrats actually having to explain how the real work is done and politically that's a lot harder. >> rachel, this feels like no matter what happens over the next couple of months the white house will have a difficult political experience. >> yeah. not to sound cynical, but they can send, like, everyone down to the border to sort of stop everything -- everyone from coming over and they'll still face problems from voters. if you look at the polling, you can see this is an issue that helps republicans and hurts biden. the majority of americans believe that biden is totally ignoring the border and he's certainly not doing enough and so even though they're trying to take steps right now, is that going to resonate with folks? >> do you think title 42 comes back? >> if it does, it's going to take a lot of terrible images on television of chaos down there

and right now it's tell when you have sherrod brown, a progressive, always in lockstep with the white house and they're not doing enough and we need to extend title 42 for two more years. >> this is a party sticking by joe biden because of what they've seen on the other side. in three months if his numbers are not improving and he's, you know, agreed to budget caps and we know that the budget talks are going to get -- i mean, do you think this unity holds? >> you know, there's not a lot of avenue for someone else to come in and challenge him for the nomination and that doesn't seem to be happening and it's theoretically possible for other candidate at this point and there's uncertainty for the party because the polls consistently show that at the very least biden is within a margin of error lead and in some cases behind trump and this is running against a candidate that's found liable for sexual abuse and who instigated an insurrection and who caters to

racists and yet biden is within the margin of error and democrats will be nervous about that. >> kimberly, what if the nominee isn't trump? i'm skeptical, but what if the nominee is for trump? >> it's still really unknown and there's polling out and that shows that biden's best shot is with trump and democrats have to be prepared to make that case, but i think in that case, i think they have to make the case and the reaction for president biden to trump cnn appearance which is just who wants that, and stick with what you've got is going to be anywhere near enough and how they are better and that's harder. it's actually harder to run for reelection and govern at the same time, but at the same time you have that ability and you have something to show actual work to put on the table and i don't think that biden has done a good enough job. >> at this point, if trump's over there, do you think that's still biden's best asset.

? >> yes. yes, i do. he would score well with trump and look, 50% of the country right now considers itself independent and more republicans are, you know, don't want trump to win. more democrats, unfortunately for him, don't want biden to win we'll have a binary choice unless a third party comes in and -- >> you think they get traction or not? >> it depends on who they come up with. they're doing the hard work of qualifying in a number states and the question is will they come up with candidates who are attractive enough? after all, elections are of people running for the office and if they come up with a third option it's got to be someone that people say, my gosh, you know, it better be someone outstanding. >> i don't see joe manchin

fitting that role, peter baker. >> no, i don't either. he drawses from already existing pools of voters and there isn't a dynamic, magnetic personality that says on. >> arnold schwarzenegger is the only guy out there and you still don't have standing, but he'd be the only person -- there is no other outsider like that that feels like would fill that vacuum. >> not only that, but that 50% of independent voters. they're all very different. are they socially conservative? fiscally more liberal or is it flipped? >> and noter inially independent. >> and the 670 electoral votes, it would have to be an extraordinary candidate to get over that. >> the interesting thing, that winning right off the bat with 270 votes is hard, it's not impossible, but hard, but keeping other candidates from

getting 270 votes is certainly feasible. >> right. >> and who knows who will win the majority in the house when it comes to -- >> well, if you really want a unity ticket, where democrats control one chamber and republicans own the other and maybe that's not one the country can handle. with that, let me pause it there. by the way, happy mother's day. >> thank you. >> up next, americans are woworri aboutut the eccon meet the o outdoorsieses. wayfair's outdoorr dealal experts.. the gardrdener... goes to o wayfair fofor gagardening babasics that.t. arenen't so b basic. the e entertainener... heher place mimight lolook expensisive. dodon't let t it fool yoyo. anand me, the loungeger... i get justst what i need with h a tap on the wayayfair app.. get ououtdoorsy fofor way y less at wawayfair. ♪ wayayfair, you'u've got t just what t i need ♪

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♪♪ ♪ welcome back. data download time. as always, the economy will be a big topic heading into 2024 and like so many issues these days how well it is doing depends on who you ask and whether they have a d or an r next to their name. what is the current state of the u.s. economy? well, the data presents a complicated picture that seems to be where people think the economy is going rather than where it is because if you just look at where it is it's doing quite well. gdp growth, look, it started

gangbusters when biden first came into office. this is the post-covid surge that certainly quickly expanded economic growth and then we had the inflation dip there and now we're sitting at just over 1% growth and it's really being slowed down our economic growth by the federal reserve to tame inflation. let's take a look at the unemployment rate. this has been on a steady decline since biden took office and it's down to 3.4%. we still have a labor shortage in this country, part of that has to do with our lack of compromise on immigration. by the way, this is being felt across the board on unemployment, and african-american unemployment is also at an all-time low and that gap between the overall unemployment and black unemployment among the lowest of all time. now, inflation. this is what has dogged this economy and what has led many people to believe this is not a great time in this economy. obviously, we had an inflation rate that peaked in the summer of last year at 9.1% and it is

still at 4.9%, much higher than when biden took office, but it has been on a steady decline and some people think it will be down to close to the 2% mark perhaps by the end of this calendar year. so why do people feel bad about the economy? it has to do with overall confidence about where they think the economy is going. so could the consumer confidence down a bit from march to april and here's why. consumer confidence went up from march to april sort of in the moment. people said, yeah. the economy is good, and better this month than it was last month and then you ask what's it going to be like in six months and they still believe they're headed for a recession and people have believed it for more than a year and a recession hasn't come and the pessimism is in many ways is what's making people think this is a bad economy. >> before we go to break, this week on meet the press reports, our deep dive is on ai, artificial intelligence and its dangers. my colleague jacob ward has been

covering ai for years. here's an excerpt. >> meredith was an early ai researcher at google and she led after leading walkouts over military contracts and google's handling of conduct, and whitaker says it's the issues around ai that worry her most. >> so the idea that this is going to sort of magically become a source of social good or that this is a -- kind of a natural substance that all of us have the ability to use equally and hey, teachers will be using it and students will be using it and non-profits will be using it is simply not true. that's a fantasy used to market these programs. >> you can watch the full episode on the power of ai and it's on peacock or youtube or it's after this broadcast on nbc news now, and the bottom line is it's available right now. when we come back, the party that once demanded morality is led by someone who has been found liable for sexual assault and charged with 34 felony

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book an exexam today at a americasbesest.com. wherere two pairirs and a frf, ♪ hi, i'm ron reagan, an unabashed atheist, and i'm alarmed, as you may be, by the intrusions of religion into our secular government. that's why i'm asking you to join the freedom from religion foundation, the nation's largest and most effective association of atheists and agnostics working to keep state and church separate, just like our founders intended. please join the freedom from religion foundation today. ron reagan, lifelong atheist, not afraid of burning in hell. this d delectablee ramemen noodle r recipe willll put an enend to yourr drive-e-through didinner ritua. throw w that powdeder inin that taststy combo of d delightful l carrots, and the ririch touch of bokok choy. knorr r taste combmbos. it's's not fast t food, but it's's soooo gooood. ♪ ♪

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ohoh, i'm scarared of h heights toooo, grandma. but then i i got tall!l! haha ha ha. ohoh, i'm scarared of h heights toooo, grandma. illinois,, the e middle of f everything! welcome back. republicans once demanded morality in their politicians, now it appears not so much. just listen to what lindsay

graham said on this program as house republicans weighed whether to impeach democratic president bill clinton 25 years ago on obstruction of justice and perjury. >> it's one thing to go and commit a crime and it's another thing to flaunt it in front of the american people and if the president would have the character to come forward and admit to the wrongdoing that i think is obviously there then maybe i would treat him differently and what i'm looking for is a president that would have a character trait to the american people and put his interest second to the american people. i'm looking for someone who is repentant and someone who admits he not only made a mistake, but violated the law, and he came before the court and said i'm sorry, i'm guilty, but someone plays the games to the bitter end, tries to have it both way in my opinion has forfeited the right to lead this character. so does character matter in the republican party? russell moore has been one of the most highest profile

conservative voices speaking out until donald trump, he was the president of the ethics and liberty religion of the southern baptist convention and now he's the editor in chief of christianity today. dr. moore, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me, chuck. good to be with you. >> want to repeat the last sentence there from senator graham, 25 years ago this was lindsay graham. someone that play the games to the bitter end, tries to have it both ways and dances on the head of a pin in my opinion has forfeited the right to lead this country. i want to get your reaction to that. that was 1998. where are we today? >> well, it was right in 1998 and it's right now, and that's party of what's so confusing to many of us who were taught in the 1990s that character matters, and are now told by often the very same people that it doesn't. evangelical christianity emphasizes that the internal

affects the external and the fact that a person -- a person's character in private has everything to do with his or her character in public that has always been the case and that's also been the issue here is does character matter or does it not? >> you know, even former vice president pence was kind of dismissive of the defamation verdict against with e. jean carroll against the former president. you know, saying, i think this is something that the media cares more about. it was shocking -- that was a shocking reaction from me coming from the former vice president. was it to you? >> i'm not sure what's going on in vice president pence's mind at this point. i know it was -- it was a shocking moment for me even after everything we've seen and what's primarily shocking is here we are in a week where a former president of the united states is found liable for sexual abuse and sexual assault and defamation of a woman who survived such abuse and assault

and the country just yawns for the most part. that tells me that something really, really has badly gone awry in this country and you add to it, the demeanor and the content of president trump's deposition to simply shrug off and defend the "access hollywood" comments. in 2015 i said that president trump had the -- or donald trump at the time had the attitude toward women of a bronze age warlord. in that deposition he said, yeah. as a matter of fact, pre-dated it back to millions of years ago and said unfortunately or fortunately, that's the way that it is. well, think about the teenage girl in a church somewhere who is being abused by her youth pastor wondering whether to come forward and she hears not only that, but when the victim is ridiculed by a presidential candidate in front of a crowd the response is laughter. that has devastating

implications. >> for eight -- eight years ago when donald trump first ran there was a divide inside the evangelical community and there was a lot of hand wringing and many came down on the side of, well, if the choice is between donald trump and hillary clinton donald trump will appoint the judges that i like. you seemed to indicate after donald trump announced his re-election plans after the november 2022 mid-terms that you didn't sense a divide anymore in the evangelical community. politically they're all in. do you still sense that? >> well, i think that's probably true with the politically activated, politically energized base. i don't think that's true of everyone and that's one of the reasons why we see churches divided. we see families divided. one of the most dismaying aspects of the trump years is the fact that donald trump is at the center of everything.

almost every congregation they know is either divided or tense about these sorts of political -- political controversies coming out of the trump years. almost every family that i know has people who don't speak to each other anymore about this personality and this figure, and i think there are a lot of people including conservative evangelicals like me who are looking at this saying are we really going to do this again? haven't we seen this already? do we really want to repeat it? and i suppose that will be the question for the rest of the year. >> what would you like to see from other candidates? it seems they very much don't want to make a character case against the former president. >> well, i think someone needs to step forward and talk about -- talk about the importance of character and talk about the importance of having someone who can be trusted to have the nuclear codes. i mean, we really need someone

to step forward and say let's remember what's at stake here. we're not just choosing what kind of entertainment we're going to have for the next six years. we're talking about the direction of the country and we're talking about what our children are seeing and potentially will replicate. if you have an entire generation who only grow up seeing this, what's going to happen? we need someone who will make that case and say it and right now among candidates, among elected officials and sometimes even among church officials there's fear. no one wants to speak to this because they're afraid of what will happen to them. the stakes are too high. >> is there any circumstance you can imagine supporting donald trump? >> well, i can't speak for all evangelicals, and i can only speak for myself, jesus said let your yes be yes and your no be no, i'll let my never be never. >> i appreciate you coming on

and sharing your perspective with us. >> thanks, chuck. >> that's all we have for today. thanks for watching. happy mother's day, if you've forgotten, hurry up, the clock is ticking. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪♪

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