♪♪ this sunday, armed rebellion. russian president vladimir putin's hold on power is challenged after his mercenary chief appears to turn on him. fighters from the wagner group push towards moscow after taking control of the russian military headquarters running the ukraine war operation. hours later the militia stopped its advance and turned around. what happens next and how should the u.s. respond? i'll talk to the u.s. secretary of state antony blinken and former u.s. ambassador to russia

michael mcfall. plus, russia's weakness. ukrainian president zelenskyy sees russia's internal crisis. >> they do not control anything. >> what does this crisis mean for the ukrainians and the west's support for them. i'll speak with amy klobuchar of minnesota republican don bacon of nebraska and political strengths and weaknesses. our new nbc poll reveals republican primary voters are unmoved by donald trump's legal trouble. >> i'm probably the only person in history of this country that's been indicted and my numbers went up. >> the former president has expanded his lead over his primary rivals even after facing federal criminal charges. >> i had every right to have these documents and yet, president biden who has his own weaknesses still leads donald trump by four points. >> joining me for insight and analysis are new york times

white house correspondent peter baker. former nato allied commander james staff rides. amy applebaum, and welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd. good sunday morning. it has been a head-spinning 24 hours as vladimir putin has seen the most significant threat to his power since he took leadership nearly a quarter century. the mutiny by the mercenary militia the wagner group comes in the war in ukraine and raises questions about putin's hold on russia. is he a lame duck. on sunday, yef gen prigozhin ordered his mercenaries to halt, after claim tag seize several military facilities including the southern military district

headquarters in the southern city of rostov-on-don. it's the equivalent of a rogue army taking over centcom and then marching on to the pentagon. putin had promised to crush this armed mutiny and accused prigozhin of treason. he accused shoigu of starting the ukraine war and denying wagner fighters ammunition. prigozhin's forces drove to within 200 miles from moscow and as quickly as the crisis erupted it ended and shockingly it wasn't putin. the strong man who announced the deal and the fact that it was a deal, but belarus, russia's ally which offered prigozhin amnesty in the country. putin blamed internal turmoil. he didn't do a rant against the west for this for what he called a stab in the back. putin's chef for owning a string

of restaurants which were a putin hangout, was responsible for the 2016 u.s. election as the founder of the internet research agency and then it was in 2014 that prigozhin founded the mercenary army known as the wagner group which has been recruiting russian convicts in ukraine to prop up a struggling russian military. this russian mutiny has raised questions about russia's resolve to continue to fight a war in ukraine that putin was supposed to easily win. on saturday ukraine's president zelenskyy said russia's weakness is obvious. >> translator: the world saw that the bosses of russia do not control anything. nothing at all, complete chaos. >> and joining me now is the secretary of state antony blinken, secretary of state blinken, welcome back to "meet the press". >> thanks, chuck. let me just start with your observations. what did you see over the weekend. this is a country that

misinformation is a bug and sometimes there's theater. what should we believe with what we just witnessed in the last 48 hours in russia? >> chuck, if you put this in perspective, what we've seen is extraordinary. think about it this way, 16 months ago russian forces were on the doorstep of ukraine believing it would take over the country in days and erase it from the map as an independent country. now russia is having to defend moscow, its capital, against mercenaries of its own making so in and of itself it's extraordinary and we've seen a rise to the surface, profound questions about the very premises that prigozhin surfaced publicly as well as a direct challenge to putin's authority. so i think we've seen more cracks emerge in the russian facade. it is too soon to tell exactly where they go and when they get

there, but certainly we have all sorts of new questions that putin is going to have to address in the weeks and months ahead. >> what was amazing is what wasn't said. vladimir putin didn't blame the west. what do you make of that? >> it's hard to put myself in putin's head or prigozhin's for that matter. keep in mind, both individuals are responsible for terrible acts committed against the ukrainian people and also in the case of wagner in country after country in africa. wherever wagner goes death and destruction and exploitation follow. it does point to the fact that this is an internal matter. this is a challenge coming from within to putin and that's where his focus has been. our focus is resolutely and relentlessly on ukraine making sure that it had what it needs to defend itself and to take back territory that it seized.

the president brought together the national security cabinet and our key allies and partners to make sure the unity of purpose and the unity of action remains and it does. >> the president of belarus apparently mediated this. that seemed startling because this is somebody that is portrayed by western analysts as a puppet of putin. puppets don't usually mediate their puppeteers. are we underestimating belarus here? >> it's important for us to not speculate, and i suspect that we'll learn more and more in the days and weeks ahead including the actual details of whatever deal was struck. it may be that putin didn't want to debase himself to the level of negotiating directly with prigozhin so it was easy to get someone like lukashenko into this, but again, that is speculation. we want to avoid that. we want to focus on the facts and we want to keep the focus on

ukraine. >> there were some reports over the weekend that u.s. intelligence analysts seemed to think something was up. how -- how -- what you ended up seeing versus what the intelligence said, how accurate it was? >> well, chuck, i'm obviously not going to comment on intelligence matters. what i can say is this, it's no secret to many people that these tensions were rising and they were brewing. prigozhin was saying extraordinary things about russia's contact going directly at russia's military leadership. so this was a rising storm, but i'm not going to comment on the intelligence itself. >> the dismantling of the wagner group, do you believe it's being dismantled and if so, what does this mean for africa and syria? >> too soon to tell. we'll see if this means that wagner forces are coming out of ukraine. the very fact that over the weekend wagner forces were coming out of ukraine and going into russia and moscow in and of

itself is extraordinary. where this goes and whether those forces remain in ukraine and whether they become integrated into the regular russian military and what it means for wagner in africa, too soon to tell, but the fact that this is at the least an added distraction for putin and for russia i think is to the advantage of ukraine and they have in hand what they need to be successful and it will unfold over weeks and even months, but this just creates another problem for putin and keep this in mind, too, chuck. this is just the latest chapter in a book of failure that putin has written for himself and for russia economically, militarily, its standing in the world, all of those things have plummeted. we have a united nato that's stronger than ever before and a europe weaning itself off of russian energy and ukraine that putin has managed to alienate and unite at the same time.

now with trouble brewing from within, as i said, these are more questions he has to find answers for. >> i know no changes to their nuclear posture, was there open communication on that front, military to military on the nuclear issue over the weekend or not? >> chuck, i'm not going to get into what diplomatic or other communications we had with russia, but of course, we're focused any time there's instability of a major country like russia, particularly one with nuclear weapons and there's no change in nuclear posture, and it's something that we're watching very carefully. >> does the instability give you hope that there's an opening for the american citizens that are being held captive in russia right now or do you fear there's going to be a clampdown and this will make it harder? >> i don't want to speculate on that. we're, as always, regardless of anything else that's happening intensely focused on making sure

that we do everything possible to bring home americans who are unjustly detained including in russia. that focus will remain. >> does this go to full speed ahead for the ukraine counteroffensive? is this a moment of opportunity? >> chuck, it is full speed ahead for their counteroffensive, but they have a plan. they have a very deliberate plan. they're prosecuting that plan and we have more than 50 countries that continue to support them in that effort to make sure that they have everything they need to do as well as they can in taking back the land that was seized from them over the last 18 months and it's going to take some time, weeks, maybe even months. there are strong defenses that they've built in recent months that the ukrainians have moved through and it's the reason that ukraine will prevail. this is about their land. this is about their future. this is about their freedom, not

russia's, and that is, in a sense, the real difference maker that you're going to see unfold. >> we originally booked you to talk about your china visit and that's why you were to come on, and i want to ask you, within 24 hours after you leave china, president biden refers to xi jinping as a dictator and the chinese government chose to be -- chose to be offended and the reason i word it that way is they didn't have to. we know this. a lot of times countries -- domestic rhetoric, domestic political rhetoric. we ignore rhetoric sometimes with countries overseas. why do you believe the chinese decide to be so publicly angry over this comment? >> chuck, i can't put myself in their minds. what i can say is this, i went to china at the president's instruction to bring more stability to the relationship. we have an obligation to responsibly manage that relationship. china does, as well and we hear that from countries around the world and restoring strong lines

of communication, making sure that we can talk directly about the many and profound differences we have as well as looking for places that we might be able to cooperate. that's important, and i think we put that in training, but part of my visit was to tell them very clearly that we're going to continue to do things and we'll continue to say things that you don't like or won't like just as you're doing things and saying things that we don't like, but we have to work our way through them. >> no apology for the dictator comment that's coming? >> we will continue to stand up for our interests and stand up for our values and say what we think and at the same time, again, they're doing the same thing. >> are we going to prevent china from having a military base on the island of cuba? >> we have been not only looking, but also engaging in a number of countries over the last couple of years where china is trying to get a foothold and we've been engaged

diplomatically in a number of places and we've had some success in either preventing that, delaying that or turning that around. we continue to do that and i raise that directly with my chinese counterparts and they know where we stand on that issue. >> i notice you raised it with your chinese counter parts and we still have no relations with cuba. this decision to pull back relations to cuba did we not just throw them into the arms of the chinese? >> no, we actually have raised this with the cubans themselves. they also have concerns that we have and the fact that we're watching this very carefully. >> are we going to make sure this doesn't happen? is this a line in the sand? >> again, we've made clear that this is a real concern, and as i said in a variety of places where china's trying to get a foothold militarily or with intelligence we've been not only looking at that, we've been taking action to push back and we've had some success. >> secretary blinken, secretary

of state, i know it was a long weekend. i appreciate you coming on and sharing. >> thanks, chuck. good to be with you. joining me now is former u.s. ambassador to russia mike mcfall. ambassador mcfall, welcome back to "meet the press," you heard the secretary of state there not wanting to speculate. you get to speculate. so, let's start there, what did we just witness? it's a similar question i asked secretary blinken and how weak do you think vladimir putin is right now? >> well, it was a mutiny. mr. prigozhin made it very clear that he wanted to punish the armed forces of russia for the way they've been fighting in ukraine and the way they attacked him. it was an extraordinary operation. this was not just something he woke up one day and said let's go to moscow. it's clear there was a lot of planning and the fact that our intelligence knew about it in

mid-june, of course, the russian intelligence must have known about it, as well and yet did nothing to stop it and putin then got on tv and made a very strong statement, chuck. he was, like, we're going to crush these guys like a bug. they're traitors and hours later negotiated. he needs an exit strategy. he needs to save face. if we push him here, they will escalate. when push came to shove this time he capitulated. >> who blinked more here? prigozhin or putin? >> oh, putin. there's no doubt in my mind. he did not use force. he could have attacked these forces. they're just marching up a road that i used to drive on all of the time. >> prigozhin killed 12 helicopter pilot, did he not? >> exactly, that's why to me it's very clear that in the scheme of chicken it was putin that stepped down and it's strange to me that he gave that

big speech. had he not given that speech it would look a lot different, but he gave that big speech saying they're traitors and several hours later he decided to negotiate and don't get me wrong, i understand what he did. he did not want to spark a civil war. these are real fighters, but there's no doubt that he looks weak in the eyes of lots of people inside russia, and i think lots of people outside of russia, as well. >> do you expect there to be a new defense minister soon? >> i don't know. of course, there's lots of reports that that was part of the deal. >> right. if that's true, that's even another sign of putin's weakness if prigozhin was able to get that. we have not seen exactly what was in those negotiations. >> what do you make of belarus playing a mediator here. he's supposed to be a puppet and that's what a lot of people assume here. same question i asked the secretary of state. are we underestimating belarus

here? is he a strengthening capo to speak in mob terms? >> i don't think so. i think he's a puppet of putin. putin wanted him to do this. >> prig that's what's strifrng about the whole thing, prigozhin has been close to putin for a long, long time. he didn't want to be the direct interlock tour, but was lukashenko doing exactly what putin wants? that's my assessment. >> and is this -- universally, this is a positive for the war for the ukrainians or is there any chance here that putin's desperate and might do something stupid? >> well, it's definitely a positive. when russian forces are threatening to fight each other rather than fighting the ukrainian army, that's good for ukraine. might inlooks a lot weaker today than he did 48 hours, that's good for ukraine.

that doesn't mean, however, that there will be some breakthrough as a result of this. the basic russian forces that russia have in ukraine haven't changed. the wagner folks have left already and on your escalation point, chuck, i think it's a very important one because we've been debating this for many, many months. >> right. >> even the biden administration from time to time has made decisions not to provide weapons to the ukrainians, certain types of weapons because they worry about escalation, but let's remember what we just witnessed here. putin had the opportunity to escalate. he told the world and his people he was going to escalate, and then he blinked, and i think that, to me, may be the most important lesson from this mutiny in russia for the war in ukraine. that this notion that he's going to double down and escalate. >> yeah. >> one, he may not want to, and b, he may not have the means to do so. >> or maybe even the moral authority over his troops. mike mcfaul, former ambassador

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trtransplant r received. at&t busininess. welcome back. so what's next after the march of mercenaries or near march as v mir putin as putin faces the most significant threat to his power? joining me is amy klobuchar of minnesota. welcome back to "meet the press." >> great to be back on. thanks, chuck. >> as you were watching things unfold this weekend, first, did you feel as though you were well informed? how many briefings have you been able to get and what -- what do you want us to do? does this at all shake your resolve about what we're doing in ukraine? >> the opposite.

we saw here a demonstrable crack in vladimir putin's strength. we saw visible rejection of his war policy by someone who had been an ally and now it turned into insubordination, taking over a city of a million people, marching his troops and his tanks within 124 miles of moscow, and then you see putin having to condemn this on their own country's tv. that's what happened, and then on the other side -- and by the way, this was a guy who had hired mercenaries in sibia and libya, someone who started an internet troll warm in moscow to attack the american elections and on the other side you see president zelenskyy who has governed with moral authority, who brought his people with him not through fear, but through their own patriotism and wanting to protect the sovereignty of their country, and you now see this counteroffensive and you

always knew it would be a slog, but he is advancing and as of monday, i think, taken over eight towns. >> having to choose between putin and prigozhin is not a choice anybody wants to have to make. i mean, you look at our philosophy in russia, we fear a strong russia and a weak russia and we want something in between because they're a nuclear power. what's the best u.s. role? the best thing that the u.s. can do to sort of encourage that goldilocks approach? >> well, obviously, the continuing openness to nuclear discussions and the nuclear safety and the secretary of state and president have assured us that there hasn't been any change in that right now when it comes to russia, but the second part, of course is supporting ukraine and you see a congress that has put forward over $40 billion in military commitment. you see a president who has led the world's allies in standing

with ukraine. you see countries like germany and poland and great britain stepping up as no one thought before as the secretary just noted, ridding themselves of their dependence on russian oil. >> yeah. >> vladimir putin has bitten off a lot more than he ever thought possible when he marched into ukraine. >> i'll ask you a couple of political questions and we have a new poll out and we asked questions about president biden and his ability to do the job. does he have the mental and physical health to serve. the concern of democrats has double since 2020 and it was only one in four democrat, it's now 43%. you were with the president at the state dinner. do you have any concerns? >> no, i don't. he did so well at that state dinner. i think we all saw his power at the state of the union. our party is united behind him, why? because we, in a results-oriented business,

chuck, and he has gotten results. added over 13 million jobs since the beginning of his presidency. when he took over the democracy was in shambles. we were in the middle of of a pandemic and people were dying and we've e merged from that, and the economy is moving forward and manufacturing in our own nation, made in america is resurging. we finally got veterans healthcare done for those stations, and we united our allies when it comes to ukraine. we've finally taken on the pharmaceutical companies just by everyone talking about it and passed a version of my bill that allows medicare to negotiate for lower prices for our seniors. those aren't small accomplishments. those are big deal things. >> i want to bring up the state dinner. do you think it was appropriate for hunter biden to be at the same event where attorney general was in the same week he accepted a plea deal. >> as the president explains.

that's his son and that's a separate thing and i would like to say about that. that decision was made by an independent prosecutor who is a trump-appointed u.s. attorney who had ten years of experience, well respected and philadelphia inyearer reported he looked at the facts and evidence and made the decision. by the way, if that's what the republicans want to run on in the coming election, good luck because the president is going to be able to run on the strength of his work in bringing 13 million jobs back to america in resurging -- >> you understand the perception. >> -- and moving forward. >> you understand the perception issue of that. >> i do. >> do you wish the perception were different? >> you always wish there were different perception, but that's not reality. reality is whether someone will take their insulin and make changes. reality is when someone has a

job and they can visit their grandma in assisted living? now who is sitting where at a state dinner? >> senator klobuchar, democrat from minnesota. >> oh, that sounds good. >> that will start some rumors. >> thanks very much. >> there you go, chuck. >> republican congressman don bacon of nebraska. he represents, by the way, one of those 18 house districts that president biden also won in 2020. congressman bacon, welcome back to "meet the press". >> good morning, chuck. it's great to be with you. >> i should also add he's representing the district the home of the college -- >> great game last night. you're been a supporter of the ukrainians and aiding them here, given what we watched over the weekend, what do you say to your house republicans who have been a bit soft on putin after what we saw over weekend? do you think this will change some minds in your conference?

>> i think it's a minority of the republicans who have been weak on this. i think the majority of us believe that we have to stand by ukraine. you cannot let a bully do what putin's doing. if you don't stand up to the bully, the bully will come back and it won't be just ukraine. it could be the baltics or other countries next. we saw how fragile putin's leadership is right now and how fragile the russian military is and why is that? they've lost 200,000 troops in this year and a half. that is almost seven more -- seven times more than what america lost in 20 years of war in iraq and afghanistan. they've lost half their tanks. their air force has been depleted significantly. the only real answer here is that putin's got to stop this war and pull out of ukraine. if he wants to save his country, save his leadership, i think that's really the only answer because this will not get better for putin or russia, and by the

way, i think we can even do more with the tacums and long-range precision weapons and president biden has been slow on this. the bottom line is we've seen the fragility of putin and the military and they've taken significant losses. >> i want to pop up something from the poll here just so you know, we asked when you would be more likely or less likely to support a candidate that wants more funding for the war in ukraine. it's pretty evenly divided, but among republicans, it's two to one. republican voters, i know you said a majority of republican primary voters say they're less likely to support a candidate that wants to continue to fund this war in ukraine. do you see the funding of the war on ukraine as directly responsible for this crack in russia with putin? >> yes, i do. i think our actions have helped ukraine prevail to the extent that they are right now. still, russia controls about 10%

of their country, but without our aid, without our support i think ukraine would have fallen by now, and i would just like to point out we've spent roughly 5% of our military of what we budgeted for our military and that's what's gone to ukraine and it's depleted more than half of the russian army. >> 5% of the military budget depletes 50% of theirs? >> yes. that's what we've done in the last year and a half, and i think this has weakened russia for maybe a decade to come which is good for the baltics, the countries and it's good for poland and it would be different. putin was wanting to be a peaceful neighbor, but he's not. we see the barbaric -- basically what he's doing is might makes right and that's not what we want with the major nuclear country, and so i think we have a moral obligation to stand up here and hope for ukraine and

too many republicans have tried to stay under the radar on this and i believe in ronald reagan's principles of strength -- we get peace through strength. you have to stand up and help out the little guy getting beat up by the big guy. >> i want to play something that president trump said about the indictment. >> whatever documents a president decides to take with him he has the absolute right to take them. he has the absolute right to keep them or he can give them back to nara if he wants. >> it's not often someone who is accused of something admits it at a function there. is there any part of that statement that's correct? >> i don't believe so, chuck. we don't have the right to take top secret information to our home. i've dealt with top secrets in the military for 30 years and now with congress.

you don't show our attack plans on iran to people not cleared and documents that talk about nuclear technology or where our intelligence resources are located throughout the world and that's what happened there and when the government asks for them back you give them back and if you deny having them, but then you have them, those are crimes. >> why do you think the party rallies around him when these things happen rather than looks at the facts like you do and say you're not supposed to do this, sir? >> you know, we have president biden who had classified and gave them back. mike pence, who had classified and he gave them back. i think people see, while there are other people who had classified. i personally thought hillary clinton was wrong for having thousands of emails on her server and china and russia can penetrate and read some of those emails that were top secret. i thought she should have been

held more accountable and the voters perceive the inconsistencies. two wrongs can't make a right. you can't have hundreds of top secret information and have it on iran to non-cleared people. again, our party does bust and we stand on our rule of law, the truth and the principles that made our party strong and if we walk away from that, we'll be weakened in the short run for sure. >> all right. congressman, don bacon, republican from omaha, again home of the college world series, one of the great annual turn am, a great place to watch it. when we come fromom big citieies, toto small towowns, and on m main streetets acros the usus, you'llll find pnc c. hehelping busisinesses both lararge and smamall, cocommunities s and the pepee who live a and work ththere grow a and thrive.e. we''re proudud to call these plplaces home e too. they'rere where wee put t down rootsts, anand where totogether, we worork to help p move

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for a bebetter tomororrow, we're focucused on making plalastics betttter tod. welcome back. so to translate what's really happening in russia and what it all means i am joined by an expert panel with a lot of russian experience, anne applebaum, author of "twilight of democracy" the seductive lure. admiral staff rides. peter baker with the new york times and he was also a moscow combur owe chief and danielle pletka, senior fellow and before

that she was a longtime staff or the senate foreign relations committee and i am ecstatic about the amount of russian intellect we have here. anne, let me start with you. is this putin's twilight? >> twilight is too early to talk about twilight, but it is certainly a kind of turning point. to me, the most interesting thing about yesterday was the way that ordinary people in the city of rostov reacted to wagner mercenaries. they came up to them. they smiled at them. they had selfies with them. they waved them good-bye when they left the city in the evening. these were not people that were upset about violent nears carrying out regime change in their country. these are not people who are going to defend putin. many of our assumptions about his longevity and his popularity may have just been exploited by yesterday's events.

i think the weaknesses of his regime and his power structure have been revealed and that is going to have consequences over the next few months. my guess is we'll be looking at one of two things and a crackdown and he'll decide he needs more violence to stay in power or mow chaos. >> what does this do to prigozhin? does this strengthen him? is this a threat to putin's leadership? is this someone that has eyes on this? >> i actually don't see -- i disagree slightly with ambassador mcfaul from a few minutes ago. i don't see prigozhin comes out of this well and the idea that he'll go to minsk and just sit there seems strange to me. it seems like he's lost his fighters. some of them will be absorbed into the army and that's what many people thought this was all about and he was trying to prevent this from happening. he was trying to keep his power. i'm not sure what happens to him

now. his decision to step down looks like weakness. both putin and he look weak. it's not like he has a bright future back in russia and he'll be safe from all of the people who are angry about what he did yesterday. >> jim, assess this from the military standpoint, what do you think we're seeing from the russian military leadership right now? >> continuing chaos, really at peace with everything that we've seen since the start of the war. terrible lodgistecs, bad intelligence, casual use of cell phones in fact these events of the last couple of days will unearth a treasure trove of intelligence for the united states military. in terms of prigozhin, i couldn't agree more with anne. the game of thrones philosophy applies, if you go for the king you better kill the king. prigozhin didn't do that and he'll now be isolated from the

35,000 fighters who protected him and he's like a snake cut off from his body and i don't think he'll last 30 or 60 days because putin is aer in forgive, never forget kind person and he'll do everything he can to wreak vengeance on prigozhin. >> you expect this to have an impact on the war in ukraine. >> picture yourself as a russian con script watching all of this unfold and they're arguing so on the internet. they have access. number two, the materiel that has gone back and forth here will be denied and number three, potentially as mike mcfaul said, watch what happens to shoigu. is he part of the deal? i don't know the answer, no one does. bottom line, it's been a very

good turn of events for kyiv. still a tough fight ahead, but i think this is one that ups the game for the ukrainian, chuck. >> all right. danielle and peter, let's talk about this from this side of things. what should the administration be doing? should they be doing anything differently than they are right now? >> no. i mean thshgs is a fight internal to russia, and so from that standpoint i don't think there's any reason that the administration needs to stand up and there are no sides to take here. it's not like prigozhin is better than putin. no. he's a worse version of putin. i think the administration is right to stay out, but is does raise the question in my mind and i suspect in the minds of other people. what is our policy toward russia? we want russia to lose and we want ukraine to win and what do we want for russia? i have no administration of what this administration's view on

that is. >> peter, what do you think? >> their answer was strategic silence. it's interesting he hasn't made that claim yet, but you'll probably hear it at some point, but the -- you know, for putin this is a moment of weakness and the americans are now going to figure out whether they have an opportunity as well as a risk because of that, right? my wife and i was in russia in 2000 when putin was elected with two main goals and one was to reconsolidate power and make himself the unchallenged figure domestically and to begin to reassert power and near abroad and ukraine the former soviet states and both have been exploited. he does not have exclusive control of use of force on his own territory and the war on ukraine has been a disaster an it may now get worse with the demoralization of the troops after what happened? >> applebaum, prigozhin is not the person putin now needs to

fear. who are you watching in putin's inner circle that may be eyeing the chair, if you will, to use the game of thrones metaphor, perhaps that jim threw out there. i noticed medvedev, the former president, he uses a lot more harsher rhetoric today than he did ten years ago. >> yes, although there are lots of jokes about medvedev drinking more than he did a few years ago, so that could be a part of the explanation. there are so many potential -- people who want power inside the inner circle that it's almost risky to name them and the heads of almost all of the secret services and petrochev and there's one that's interesting in taking power yet -- or taking power next. it seems to me and i genuinely thought up until yesterday that what prigozhin was doing was not so much trying to get rid of

putin, but jockeying to be his replacement that he was present being himself as an alternative. in some ways he did that rather well. in some ways he better embodies the values of the russian military than putin does and he doesn't go on about imperial nonsense in history and he doesn't talk about fake christianity that putin sometimes does. he focuses on, you know, we just want to win. we want money. we want better weapons and he has a deep appeal. so the question now is whether he can ever get any of that back which i now doubt. >> all right. boy, this was a terrific panel, and i think we all learned a lot. >> when we come back. donald trump's lead grows after donald trump's lead grows after the latest (vo) while yoyou may not t be runng an arcrchitecturalal firm, tendnding hives s of honeybe, anand mentoring a teenenage— yourur life is j just as unin. your r raymond jamames finanal adadvisor getsts to know y yo,

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trump. just 20% of voters believe this country is headed in the right direction. 74% say the nation is on the wrong track. let me tell you something about this moment. we have had this sustained period of 70% about a year now. the last two periods in the history of this poll that we've had this kind of sustained negativity about the direction of the country was before the '92 election and the 2008 election. both of those changed the party controlling the white house. now let's get into more of the poll. biden's job rating sits at just 43% about where it's been since the withdrawal from afghanistan. 53% disapprove, and a full 68% of voters including 43% of democrats now which is twice what it was in 2020 say they are concerned that biden does not have the necessary mental and physical health to be president. for what it's worth when we ask the same question of donald trump who is just a couple of years younger than president biden and it is 15 points over than the concerns over president

biden. biden won more because of who he wasn't than of who he was and in a head to head matchup biden leads trump by the same four points that he defeated him by in 2020, and desantis, it's 47 and 47. i'll tell you in a few minutes what that difference is and who are those swing voters and one thing that doesn't appear to be changing voters' minds so far is donald trump's federal indictment. just 34%, and this hasn't changed a bit in about a year and although a majority of voters overall, 55%, have real concerns about these federal charges against trump. just 23% of republicans do and primary scottie voters, just 16% of them told us they have a major concern about this. 54% of republican primary voters called it a politically motivated attempt to stop him. we asked the same question in april. it's just four points less than what it was in april.

31% say it's important to nominate a candidate who will not be distracted and can focus on being biden. pay attention to the 35%. i'll show you something in a minute and though only half of the republican party, 49% say the republican party should continue to be led by donald trump, the non-trumpers are not coalescing around any of trump's rivals. trump overperforms these numbers and in the race for president, he leads ron desantis, is the only other candidate in double digits with 22. this is actually nearly a doubling of what the margin was in this -- in april. trump was under 50 and it was 15 percentage points and in a head to head matchup in the republican primary, trump almost has a two to one lead here. 60% to 36. 49% say they don't want trump to leave the party and yet he's overperforming that number. there are never trumpers voting for trump over desantis. by the way, the desantis voter

there doesn't match the campaign he's running for what it's worth. meanwhile, where that does lag in desantis and joe biden do offer a warning side for trump and the republican party if he is the nominee because they represent most of the persuadable electric and they're independent, women without college degrees and swing state voterses and voters who somewhat disapprove of joe biden's presidency. so like the soccer moms and dads of past cycles, this cycle's key swing voter will be these somewhat disapprovers because they were huge in the 2022 midterms and right now they're picking biden over trump, and of course, the other giant red flag for trump and the gop, unlike previous supreme court decisions like interracial and same-sex marriage. it's not growing, if anything, it's moving away. a year after the dobbs decision, it has become even more unpopular. 61% of voters disaxe prove and just 36 approve.

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do you think that boris yeltsin can clean this problem up any better than mcmail gorbachev could? >> i think a couple of points. first of all, i share the euphoria everyone feels in the events of the last week. it's a phenomenal week in the history of the world. there's a problem ahead and third, by virtue of the fact that he's been elected has legitimacy and i think he will probably be in a very strong position to move forward with economic reform by virtue of the fact that he does represent the people of russia. >> welcome back. that, of course, was then secretary of defense dick cheney just two months after another pivotal moment in history when boris yeltsin became the democratically elected president and, it weakened gorbachev, and weakened yeltsin and led to the full collapse.

russia never took after that. >> the big difference then and now, there were people we cheered for. putin and prigozhin, they're like two scorpions in a bottle. it wasn't a complete collapse. they never believed that the system had failed. they simply, grievance and victimhood became the dominant theme that they capitalized on? >> no what ifs? >> there are candidates inside russia and alexei navalny who is in prison and vladimir carramo, z a, and these are candidates and there's an appetite, otherwise prigozhin wouldn't have cut through as he did. >> that's an important did and he was welcomed. wow! what a weekend. that's all we have for today. thank you for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪♪ ♪♪

a tense weekend in russia sends shockwaves throughout the world. what we know about the armed mercenaries that marched on moscow, and how the u.s. is reacting harrowing moments on the high seas. passengers open up about a freak storm that tossed and turned their cruise ship. massive consumer alert to tell you about before you start your car why over a million hondas were hit with a recall. >> it's part of our daily lives. and now the cell phone