development. donald trump is arrested for the fourth time and becomes the first president to have his mug

shot taken. his 18 co-defendants including his former chief of staff also surrendered after being charged for their efforts to overturn the 2020 georgia election results. >> what has taken place here is a travesty of justice. >> and at the party's first debate, trump's rivals promised to support him even if he's a convicted felon. >> would you still support him as your party's choice? >> as trump navigates his legal challenges, will any of his political challengers find a path to be here? plus stealing the spotlight. he grabbed all of the attention in the first republican primary debate. >> if you have a broken car and you don't turn over the keys to the people who broke it again, you hand over the keys to the generation to fix the problem. >> now is not the time for on the job training. >> i've had enough of a guy that sounds like chatgpt. >> vivek ramaswamy, who has

never held political office. >> you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. >> i'll talk to the political outsider who clashed the most with his gop rival, and 2024 vision. senator bernie sanders issues a warning to democrats about how to win the future. >> there has got to be an ideological change. >> i'll ask president biden's chief rival from 2020 what he wants to see the democrats focus on for a second biden term. joining me for insight and analysis are. former democratic congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida. pat mccrory, danielle pletka of the american enterprise institute and marcos mulis sass, the founder of daily coast. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with chuck todd.

good sunday morning. donald trump's inevitabilitiy, the idea that he cannot be beaten in this republican primary has been a source of strength for him. at wednesday night's debate could look like without trump on wednesday, but we still live on this version of earth and until one of trump's opponents is recognized as a viable challenge by republican primary voters, it is a debate that may have to be put on hold until 2024. that said, a failure of imagination turned the idea that trump could never win in 2016 into faulty conventional wisdom, and it's that same failure of imagination now to believe that he can't lose the republican primary that we should be cautious of. the main threat to trump has always been his legal troubles and his campaign may be cashing in on his mug shot released on his booking night right it is a visual representation of the four indictments and 90 felony counts and the political trouble they may represent thanks to a bunch of unknown

unknowns with the legal. 19 co-defendants have turned themselves in in the georgia racketeering case, two have requested a speedy trial leading to questions whether they might cooperate. kenneth chesebro, he is the law whier who wrote the campaign memo who they used and used to subvert the 2020 election and sydney powell wants a speedy trial. she's the one that accessed voter data in a county in sdwroerja as well as filing lawsuits suggesting fraught. john eastman, another lawyer having to use a slate of trump electors is likely to request a speedy trial, as well. consider a televised trial, georgia law, of these defendants starting as early as this october and potentially before any trial that features donald trump's starts? and fani willis could lay out the case against trum for the nation ahead of the start of the primary calendar.

that's an unknown unknown that i'm pointing out here. some of trump's opponents tiptoeing before pointing out that a campaign year full of courtroom year full of courtroom motions and trials might not be the greater general election politics for the gop. >> we have to face the fact that trump is the most disliked politician in america. we can't win a general election that way. >> and yet, at least six of the eight republicans on stage in milwaukee including haley, raised their hands to confirm they would support trump 2024 even if he is convicted by a jury of his peers and they made the odd decision to pile on political newcomer vivek ramaswamy who may be surging, but is still cracking double digits. >> now is not the time for on the job training. we don't need to bring in a rookie and people without experience. >> i've had enough already tonight of a guy who sounds like chatgpt standing up here.

>> you make america less, and you have no foreign policy experience and it shows. >> and you know what? >> the arrows may have come because ramaswamy took every opportunity on the stage to defend and praise the man who wasn't there, donald trump. >> president trump, i believe, was the best president of the 21st century. that's a fact. >> joining me now is the republican presidential candidate that was at the center of the debate, vivek ramaswamy. mr. ram swaem, welcome back to "meet the press". >> it's good to talk to you, chuck. let me start with the tragedy that took place in jacksonville. sheriff waters, this is how he described the incident. >> this was racially motivated and he hated black people. he wanted to kill [ bleep ]. he targeted a certain group of people and that's black people and that's what he said he wanted to kill and that's very clear, and i don't know that the

targets were specific, but i know that any member of that race at that time was in danger. >> both the fbi and dhs in the last two years have said that racially motivated violent extremism is on the rise. this is clearly part of that. what would a president ramaswamy want the justice department to do about this racially motivated violence that we're seeing on the rise? >> i think that every criminal deserves to be punished to the fullest extent of the law especially when they're carrying out premeditated crimes like this one. this is a heinous crime. my heart goes out to the families who were affected by this and it is tragic and should not be happening in the united states of america. the fact of the matter, chuck, it is a system symptom of a deeper new form, and my job as the next president is to lead with a national tone of character that remind us of how

we are all united across our diverse attributes. i think part of the problem is we have obsessed so much over racial and other genetic differences that we have forgotten all of the ways we're really the same as a country, and i do think we need a leader in the white house developing that national character for this country again. we also do have a mental health epidemic across this country, chuck, that really is reflective of a hunger for purpose and meaning. we need to fill that void, address the mental health epidemic, but this is a tragedy and deserves to be calleda heinous. >> why do you think there are more race based crimes on the right than on the left. why is this a lot more pervasive on the right? >> the fact of the matter is i think that there's a lot more violence that's pervasive in part of the country that supposedly are left-wing voter basis. i don't think this is a left versus right issue and i don't think we should politicize this through partisan goggles

especially in the wake of of a tragedy like this one. >> do you ignore the manifesto? >> do you ignore the elements that's allowed this manifest onto spread online and that what we're -- it does feel as if social media connects some of these hateful ideologies. >> the fact of the matter is i do think we have two standards that we're applying if we're having a conversation about manifestos. we still have not even seen the manifesto of the transgender shooter of a christian school and we're looking at this the as a motive. let's look at the political media and the political establishment are doing in how they analyze different crimes and create a new narrative. what i said in the nashville shooter killing i'll say here. it is heinous, we need to get to the root cause and set the right tone in the country, but if we're going to talk abouté

manifestos and politicization, i think -- i personally traveled to nashville to call for it and that's the real evidence of real mrit situation in terms of what the public sees and what the public doesn't. i want to establish this through one standard of the rule of law for everybody. >> do you believe racism is a mental health issue? >> i do believe that racism in many cases is manufactured in a way that creates more racism in this country. i cannot think of a greater way, chuck, of driving racism in this country than to take something else away from someone based on the color of their skin. so is there existing racism in the united states? of course, there is, but those last burning embers of racism and the last thing i want to do is throw kerosene on it and that's what i believe the mod earn culture is doing by

creating race--based quotas and systems based on the color of their skin. right answer to stop discrimination of race is to stop discrimination on the becausis of race. >> your argument comes across -- your argument comes across as blaming those that are trying to create equality for the right. >> the fact is, chuck, i don't want to be going towards a solution, and i am genuinely worried that those who earnestly espouse the view. i'll quote abraham kendy directly. i'm not putting words in anybody's mouth, the right answer to present discrimination is future discrimination. i think the people who hold that view are earnest about it, but i think they're wrong and that's creating more discrimination and more division in our country, and i think the right answer is

actually to restore colorblind erck quality, colorblind meritocracy. embrace what unites us across our diversity and celebrating our skin-deep diverse attributes. it's not blaming anybody else for having a dint point of view, but as a leader it's my job to articulate exactly how we will unite this country and that's exactly how i will do it. >> let me move to the debate, and a lot of people are asking this president, if you think donald trump is the greatest president of the 21st century, he's running. why are you running against him? why do you think his second term won't be as good as his first? >> well, look, i did say he's the best president of the 21st century from george bush to barack obama to donald trump, i don't think it's even close. who was the best? i judge by results. that being said, i believe i can take the america first agenda even further than donald trump did. i think i will be more effective

in uniting this country in the process. look at the way we're running this campaign. i'm not leaving any state behind, any city behind, no american left behind, from the south side of chicago to kensington to places where traditional republicans don't go. i think i am best positioned to deliver a landslide election in multi-ethnic working class majority and i do think a landslide is what we need in this country and not a 50.1 election and i'm the only candidate in this race who can do that. >> a political neophyte outsider became president and didn't get a lot of things done that he wanted to get done in donald trump, why do you think somebody with less experience than donald trump had is somehow going to make the federal government function in a way that you're outlining? >> so i think there are three things i would say, the first is we have that experience to learn from. i want to build on the found

ation that trump laid. i would invite him as a mentor and i want to take on the administrative state. the second thing, chuck, i do think it's an outsider to take on the administrative state, but i also think it needs to be an outsider who has a deep, first personal understanding of the laws and constitution of this country. i think trump was in many cases duped by his managerial advisers, for example, who said you can't fire employees due to civil sers protections. read the law. turns out those civil service protections only apply to individual filings and not to mass layoffs. mass layoffs are absolutely what i will bring to the d.c. bureaucracy, and i think the fact that i am from a different generation, chuck, will be an asset. i am able to reach young americans. i am able to reach people who haven't traditionally been brought into the mold of republican politics. i don't even talk about republicans and democrats, and so i think i'll be able to build a greater moral mandate across generations that helps unite americans across the america first agenda rather than make it

a strictly partisan affair. >> let me bring up a question that you didn't get to answer. most said mike pence did the right thing on january 6th, do you agree? >> i would have done it differently. i think there was a historic opportunity that he missed to reunite this country. this is a moment for a true national consensus where there are two elements of what's required for a functioning democracy in america. one is secure elections and the second is a peaceful transfer of power. when those things come into conflict that's an opportunity for heroism. here's what i would have said. we need single-day voting on election day. we need paper ballots and we need government-issued i.d. matching the voter file and if we achieve that then we have achieved victory and we should not have any further complaint about election integrity. >> what would you have done with mike pence? you would have not certified the election? >> in my capacity as president of the senate i would have led

through that level of reform, then on that condition certified the election results, served it up to the president -- president trump to sign that into law and on january 7th declare the re-election campaign pursuant to a free and fair election and i think that's the missed opportunity and that's what we need to reunite the country rather than sweeping those concerns under the rug. >> in your book which wasn't written that long ago you wrote the fact that all of our governmental institutions so unanimously found no evidence of significant fraud is telling. furthermore, i have talked to many republicans at all levels of government and not one has ever presented convincing everyday, many have tried and i don't think republican politicians actually think the election was stolen. election was stolen. you went from there and 11 4é.d changed on january 6th. this book was written september

of 2022. >> if you're interested -- >> yeah. >> reading exactly that chapter in the book i drew a sharp distinction between what i did see in the interference of the election that mattered which was interference by big tech. i'm data driven. there's hard data showing that many voters, many independent voters would have changed the result enough to influence the outcome of the election if they had been exposed about the hunter biden laptop story. by contrast i have also been clear, i have not seen evidence that there was ballot fraud of a scale that would have change that result. i'm responding to data on both fronts. the fact of the matter if we're looking at reuniting this country there are serious concerns on both sides and especially on the right of ballot fraud and big tech not fearence and there is a very clear result in the way we can address that and i've offered a clear consensus that everyone can get behind and if people think that this issue is a threat to our democracy, that

should be an easy consensus to be able to rally around and that's how i'll lead as president. >> first of all, you never talk about the tech stuff in your book. this is a new thing -- >> you have not talked about this hunter biden aspect of this. we were looking for it. >> i think you have not read -- i think you have not read "nation of victims" literally read the book and there was 20 pages of content devoted to this. >> it's fine. you don't have an obligation to read my book, but if you do, quote it correctly. >> we have been and let me quote it again. you're referring to republicans. we used stolen election stories as a back door to embracing our own victim -- pursuing an easy path to power. throughout this entire book, you mock the entire january 6th aspect. you absolutely criticized donald trump for being a sore loser. you write about it in a way of making your point that we've become a nation of victims and

right now on tv you're doing the exact opposite. >> i'm not. chuck, i want to be very clear. i preach to conservative audience -- i was in iowa over the last two days and what do i tell them? we're not going to be victims. we're going to be victorious. whether i talk to the left or the right i've said the same thing and i have been very clear, chuck, and i want to be clear today that i would have made very different judgments than donald trump did that day and on many matters on his path out of office and there's a difference between a bad judgment and a crime, and what i've been clear about is when we criminalize those bad judgments that's an abuse of the justice system and it undermines trust not only in our elections, but our justice system and we have to be able to draw those distinctions and it would take that leader who can preach to both tribes in this country to reunite this country. did donald trump make the right judgments? no. i said so then and i say so now, that we criminalize it? absolutely not. in order to do that on the

election integrity issue we have an opportunity to put this debate behind us by single-day voting as a national holiday with paper ballots and government-issued i.d. and this should not be controversial and if that should reunite this country as i think it will, that's how i would lead as president. >> from your book. no one likes a sore loser and that's one of the worst victim complexes of all. are you referring to donald trump? >> referred in that chapter both to stacy abrams and to donald trump and i think that the answer is we need leaders who ultimately stand for victory over victimhood. we did have a victimhood culture that started on the left in this country. the oppression hierarchy, my worry is that can spread to the right and the way that this so-called culture war will end is not with a bang, but with a whimper. that related to my earlier conversation on seeing each other based on the color of our skin. i think that is deeply divisive.

what we need in this country is to revive the shared ideals that unite all of us as americans. the pursuit of excellence, meritocracy, free speech, the rule of law. i genuinely believe, chuck, that most americans regardless of black or white, red or blue share those ideals in common and that's what i'm reviving. >> let me go back to quoting you. the republican party seems to be moving toward the position that any wins are legitimate and anything lost were stolen. it's a victimhood, a knee-jerk, sore losing more common to playground than great republics. you seem to at the time you wrote your book believe this was potentially damaging to the rule of law, this was not a way to have a democracy thrive, and you're now speaking in a way that gives essentially a permission slip to election deniers to believe there's some truth to something that you yourself have yet to find evidence of.

>> chuck, i stand by everything i said. that was a book where 11 of the 12 chapters were dedicated to a lot of left-wing victimhood in this country, but it would have been incomplete for me to not call out my own tribe. my point is i don't want to see this as red versus blue. we've created an incentive structure in this country, increasingly whatever your political affiliation to see yourself as a victim. hardship is not the same thing as victimhood. we are going through hardship as a country right now including many conservatives. hardship is sometimes not a choice. victimhood is a choice. so whoever the american is that ß'vrz talking to, i say we do n choose victimhood. we choose victory. that is who we are, and i think we can be stronger on the other side of it. chuck, this isn't some game of gotcha. i stand by everything i've written over the last three years in the books except on a few areas of facts where as the new facts that have come out i've changed my mind, but in the core thesis i am in the exact

place as when i wrote the books and i am not in this race to lead a political party. i am in this race to lead a nation. i'm using the republican party as a vehicle to advance an america first agenda that i think many american, most americans can rally behind and that's what we will need. >> i know you've only voted in two presidential elections, where did you vote in 2020 and how did you vote? >> i voted in ohio, and during the coronavirus pandemic i voted by mail. that's exactly how i voted, and the fact of the matter is -- the fact of the matter is i think we should have one standard for everybody, for me, for much of my 20s i was disaffected by politics. i understand why young people are disaffected. i was uninspired by john kerry and george bush, i voted libertarian that year or john mccain or barack obama so i don't make any bones about it and i talk about it in my speeches. >> and you were uninspired by

donald trump in 2016. i was skeptical of donald trump in 2016. i had grown up in a generation where i felt like we were lied to from the weapons of mass destruction in iraq and those are republican, to the russia collusion hoax and i was deeply skeptical and i judged based on results and voted for him with confidence in 2020. >> vivek ramaswamy, you became the center of the debate. thanks for coming on. >> thank you, chuck. i appreciate it. when we come back, what is the biden second term

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it's because of tiktok that i had to go out and get a website. i'm at a point now where i've outgrown my house. growing up, every time i'd get out of the shower, i would itch. my first experience with goat milk soap, it kinda was like a light bulb moment. tiktok is a fantastic platform for diy. if you'd have told me three years ago that i would own my own business and be expanding into a separate building, i would've told you you'd lost your mind. back in april senator bernie sanders who of course was biden's chief rival in the 2020 democratic primaries rolled out a third presidential bid and

endorsed biden for reelection. sanders was back in new hampshire, one of those early presidential states where he won both the 2016 and 2020 primaries to share what he called the concrete agenda at the new hampshire institute of politics. when you go to new hampshire it sparks speculation about his own political future. >> it is no secret that i want joe biden to be reelected president. if that is going to happen, if we are going to defeat authoritarianism and right-wing extremism there has got to be an ideological change of thought. bernie sanders joins me now. welcome back to "meet the press". >> thank you for having me. >> so the fact that you felt the need to do this, should we read into the fact that you don't believe there's a second-term

agenda yet, that americans can wrap their head around for what a second biden term would look like? >> no. i think what you can read into that is that biden has every right to be proud of a long series of accomplishments. you know, two and a half, three years ago, this country was in the worst economic downturn since the great depression because of covid. today unemployment is all of 3%. we're gaining new jobs and rebuilding manufacturing and we've invested in the infrastructure. we're making progress and biden has a right to be proud of that. the point of my remarks is that you cannot simply, as president of the united states, rest on your laurels. what you have got to understand is that today, for structural reasons that have gone on for decades, tens and tens and millions of people are struggling to put food on the table. they can't afford health care. they can't afford prescription drugs. they can't afford housing.0e

they can't afford child care and meanwhile, in the midst of all of that, you have incredible corporate greed and the billionaire class has never done better. so may message yesterday for the democrats and not just for the president. >> yeah. >> is if you want to do well in this election, talk to the needs of the american people and have the guts to take on the big money and that have so much power. >> it sounds like you think the phrase finish the job is something to rally around and there needs to be more than that. >> well, it's -- yes. you need to recognize that not only have we accomplished a great deal inned by know's first three years and he deserves credit for that, but there are so many long-term problems that this country is facing. does anybody in america think that our health care system is working? and yet the insurance companies make tens of billion of dollars and drug companies make tens of billions of dollars and we don't have enough doctors, nurses, mental health providers, pharmacists, dentists. so we need fundamental reform in health care, and by the way, the

existential issue of our time is whether or not we address climate change, and we have made some steps forward, but there is no question in my mind if we're going to allow our kids and grandchildren to live in a healthy planet. we have a lot, lot more to do. >> do you think there should be a robust discussion on this on the left if there were a primary? do you think there should be? >> well, i think in this particular time, this particular moment in american history when we're taking on somebody, the former president who, in fact, does not believe in democracy. he's an authoritarian and a very, very dangerous person. i think at this person there has got to be a unification of progressive people in general all over this country and people who have prepared to make sure women control their own body, that we deal with climate change and we represent the needs of the working class in this country and take on the billionaire class.

>> one way that you make it clear that age isn't a factor with you is you're pretty energetic and we see you travel the country and you show up and do interviews. it is clearly an issue for many voters when it comes to president biden. he's a year younger than you. do you have advice to him on how he should assuage those concerns in the public about his age? >> look, when people look at a candidate whether it's joe biden or trump or bernie sanders, anybody else, they have to evaluate a whole lot of factors. i met with the president -- i don't know, five or six weeks ago. we had a great discussion. he seemed fine to me, but i think at the end of the day what we have got to ask ourselveses is what do people stand for? do you believe that women have the right to control their own bodies? the president has been strong with that. do you think that climate change is real or do you agree with the republicans that it's a non-issue? do you think we should raise the

minimum wage? do you think we should reform and take on the pharmaceutical industry? so age is an issue, chuck, but there are a lot of broader issues than just that. >> let me ask you about cornell west. he was a co-chair of your campaign in 2020. he's flirting with the green party bid for president. the numbers tell the story between 2016 and 2020. you can directly correlate the two-third party, major candidates, third-party candidates and their collective total. that was the difference between biden winning states and clinton losing those key state. are you trying to discourage cornell west from running? >> well, i've known cornell for many, many years. he's a very independent-minded guy and he will do what he wants to do. i just think, again, i think cornell or anybody else can play an important role now about raising issues that are not always discussed, but at the end of the day, i think the progressive community in general

and the american people have got to make a decision as to whether we stand for democracy or authoritarianism or whether or not we're going to represent working-class families. >> one of your chief political advisers is concerned that cornell west is being taken advantage of by maybe people that simply want his name on the ballot. do you have those concerns? >> i really haven't thought of it that closely. bernie sanders, the independent senator from vermont who we saw in new hampshire yesterday. thanks for coming on and sharing your views with us. good to see you. >> thank you. when we come back the republican presidential hopefuls republican presidential hopefuls try to make the c we never just see the numbers. we see the people. marcus: detroit, it's just changed so much. you can see what it once was. and then, i think about what it can be. as an entrepreneur, it's about how i can give them the tools to empower themselves if we can just all do something small, all the small things will start to amount to something big.

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to improve joint comfort in 7 days, with significant improvement over time. ( ♪♪ ) welcome back. the panel is here. former democratic congresswoman stephanie murphy of florida. marcos mulity sis, founder of the daily coast, pat mccrory and danielle pletka senior fellow at the american enterprise institute. let me start with the visual that i think will live for quite some time and that is the show of hands on donald trump. let's play it again. >> if former president trump is

convicted in a court of law, would you still support him as your party's choice? please raise your hand if you would. chuz chauz [ cheers and applause ] >> dani pletka, it was a moment especially like a cascade and a wave and everybody else, and it was this reluctance. >> there was that christie weird hand signal thing. >> i do see it slightly differently because they all went on to that stage having made a pledge that they would support the party's nominee. so -- >> never did say they had to support a convicted felon in that pledge. >> the party's nominee, there's no asterisk there that says he can't have a mug shot, right? so i feel for them in the sense that they were sort of -- none of them wanted to raise their hand except vivek. none of them wanted to, but they

all felt like they had to. >> how did vivek end up the center of attention? i don't understand that game theory because leaving desantis alone seemed to be -- you know, everybody else truly tried to get to trump, you had to go through desantis. >> i'm a big eagles fan, the new kid in town, it applies in politics, too. he's the new kid in town any he wants to get as much attention as possible and he'll say and do anything to get that attention, and he fulfilled that objective, but he also had previous new kids in town who now have political maturity like chris christie, pence and nikki haley and they went, we're not going to put up with this and that was a tough debate decision because the more they jump on him the more attention he gets, but they drew him out. i mean, he's almost from a foreign policy perspective, he's the neville chamberlain. he's not ronald reagan. >> did they try him out or were

they really trying to attack donald trump? >> he's asking for revolution. >> i have the equivalent of punching a couch cushion. you can't attack donald trump so they were going to attack vivek? >> that's an interesting question. i don't think i've thought about that. i think he just got on their nerves and he was so freakin' obnoxious and he couldn't take it anymore. who is this -- can you imagine somebody who admitted he hadn't even thought about foreign policy until six months ago, man explaining to nikki haley who was a u.n. ambassador about foreign approximately see? they just couldn't help themselves. that's what wi think. stephanie, what did you see? >> i think that he embodied exactly what the harvard university calls him the section guy, josh wrote about this. he's the guy that speaks in class incessantly, but doesn't say anything of merit and of substance and everybody can't stand him, but they kind of have to still be on the good side

because one day he's running for public office and here he is running for president. >> what do you think about this guy that successfully hacked his way into the center stage of the party this easily with the information ecosystem just ole'ed him to center stage. >> i have a vivek answer. everything has become like reality tv. this is how we ended up with the guy saying "you're fired". >> he's a kardashian. there's no accountablity in politics, right? he can say whatever he wants and if he said something different the day before, no one cares because he's there and he believes -- >> he's entertaining you in the moment. >> and he's entertaining you, exactly, in the moment. >> he told everyone -- >> some voters did want to see some toughness. look what happened a lot of times candidates want to tell us, nobody asked us about trump on the trail. here's tim scott on the trail being asked by a republican about donald trump.

watch this. >> do not stand toe to toe with somebody that you don't accept in president. >> we disagree on the foundation of the premise of the question and the premise of the question is why don't you stand up to trump? >> i never heard you -- >> i didn't hear you the other night say that. i can't accept him as president. >> do you want to have the conversation or a monologue? if you want to have a dialogue, i'll be speaking as well. >> that escalated quickly. i was stunned that tim scott sort of almost went after the voter. he didn't seem like he was being angry. >> he knew he was being filmed and he didn't want to irritate the trump base and that's -- listen, i'm an example of that. i had a 30-point lead at one time in a u.s. senate race and the minute trump went against me i dropped. that's the power of donald trump. and the interview you did earlier with the new kid in ;

you never engage with your voters that way on camera or not. that's just a rookie mistake innen engaging with voters. in swing states they're wondering why we are faced with these two options, like -- and this debate was sort of separate from what the presumptive nominations are going to be for both parties and you know, we're a country of 300 million people and we don't have better alternative? s. >> i want to bring up one other thing about the iowa poll because i think it tells us the way the republican party has changed and let me show you what the makeup of the republican caucus was in 2016. it was 50/50, slight advantage, male. 52%, 48%. according to our poll that we released this week, the likely

republican electorate is now 61% male, 39% female. this is the trump effect. whatever we want to talk about, this appears to be the trump effect, does it not? >> more men are turning out, but i think it's interesting that you don't have any breakdown there so i don't know -- >> no, it is smaller. >> it's all the same except for gender. everything else is the same on ideology, on college education. we are seeing more men identify as republicans and more women not. >> well, that's something that the republican party needs to deal with because there are a lot of women in this country. >> and we just had the summer of barbie and taylor swift tour. women are having a moment in this country where they have an economic impact and they are having a voice and they're going to want to go to the polls and reflect that. >> i thought that's why nikki haley did a good job in presenting that face. >> she potentially has room to grow if she can somehow get women to show up.

>> everybody's afraid of going after trump, right? but if you look at primary polling, trump's around 50, 52%. half of the party isn't aboard. if there's ten people splitting the rest of the vote that's a problem and you can consolidate. >> well, you have allowed me to tease. when we come back, there's a divide among the republican party among voters who believe party among voters who believe president biden was my late father-in-law lit up a room, but his vision dimmed with age. he had amd. i didn't know it then, but it can progress to ga, an advanced form of the disease. his struggle with vision loss from amd made me want to help you see warning signs of ga. like straight lines that seem wavy, blurry, or missing visual spots that make it hard to see faces like this one, or trouble with low light that makes driving at night a real challenge. if you've been diagnosed with amd and notice vision changes,

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♪♪ ♪♪ welcome back. it's "data download" time. there are a lot of ways to understand4■ the 2024 republica electorate. we have data that suggests one of the more crucial splits maybe between those republicans who believe donald trump won the 2020 election and those who don't believe and actually acknowledge that the former president lost. let me show you here. it's almost a pretty even split. barely a majority believe donald trump's false assertions. 41% of iowa republican caucusgoers, do not believe donald trump's claims and you know what? it leads to some interesting

splits. your favorability of donald trump depends on whether you believe him. those that believe him, 92% favorable rating and those that don't believe him, just 30% have a favorable rating here. as you can see, desantis, scott and ramaswamy all have more evenly divided favorable ratings among both group. in theory they might unite both groups and donald trump not so much. look at the divide between these two groups. 51-41 here. gun enthusiast if you're a believe category and 43% not believe. more deyou have thely religious, those that believe donald trump's lies. you are more likely to be moderate if you don't believe donald trump's lies about the election and as you can see here the biggest divide among those that believe and don't believe, your college education status. nearly 60% have a bachelors degree among those that do not believe trump's false assertions and it leads to interesting

splits on some key issues. use of military at the border, gender-affirming care ban for minors and the most significant might be the idea of more aid for ukraine. just a quarter of those who believe trump's lies support more aid for ukraine. among those who don't believe trump's lies support more aid for ukraine. as you fol follow the primary season, keep track of those who believe the election lies of donald trump and those that don't inside the republican electorate. monday will mark the 60th anniversary of the march on washington where nearly a quarter million americans gathered on the national mall in the fight for civil rights. some of the event best is the day dr. martin luther king jr. delivered his i have a dream spees where man of the same issues we're dealing with today. three day ahead of the march, dr. king responded to some of the his critics right here on

"meet the press." >> i am sure that many whites in the north and south have a feeling that we are pushing things too fast and that we should cool off a while, slow up for a period. i cannot agree with this at all for i think there can be no game saying of the fact that the negro has been extremely patient. we have waited for a well now 345 years for our basic constitutional and god-given rights, and we still confront the fact that we are at the bottom of the economic ladder. i think instead of slowing up, we must push at this point and we must continue to move on, and i am convinced that our moving on will not only help the negro cause so to speak and the cause of the whole of america because the shape of the world today just doesn't permit our nation the luxury of an anemic democracy. >> those words may be 60 years

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welcome back. so let's look at a biden general election campaign and the idea of a third party.

pat, you are a big part of no labels. you guys are rekruting candidates. what is this ticket going to look like, and is this 100% commitment that there is going to be a ticket? >> nikki haley and the debate confirmed that 65% of the people are disgusted with both trump and biden being our only choices. they're asking, isn't america better than this? don't we have a better choice? and the momentum and movement of no labels is on fire right now. >> i get that -- >> there are a lot of people -- >> no they're not. >> i'm telling you, there are a lot of people who predicted trump would never be president or the same people saying there's no way in hell a third party can win. i'm telling you. we've never had 56% of the people disgusted with no parties. >> we stand for nothing, imagine going to walmart or target and seeing no labels on the products. products are -- >> it ignores abortion. >> you missed a whole --

>> the barn-burning issue such as medical tort reform and that will light up the audience. >> you have not read it. >> the reality is it's finance industry heavy -- >> i read it. i actually read it. i read it last night. >> that's why he couldn't sleep. >> nikki haley basically repeated the no labels agenda. >> so the problem isn't -- isn't they don't like, you know, biden or trump, it's that you are creating this idea that there is a mythical unicorn creature that will agree with these people who want something else. that doesn't exist. when -- pulled manchin and huntsman -- they didn't get that much. >> i don't know. i will say and this is anecdotal conversations at my house, does that reflect the country? i don't know, but i will say that none of us want to vote for trump and none of us want to vote for biden. >> i want to vote for biden.

>> i know who you want to vote for, dude. that wasn't a question. >> that's right. your house. >> average people -- my house, don't want to vote for biden, don't want to vote for trump and i don't think it's crazy. we do want to vote for somebody. >> stephanie, you were ideologically in the middle. i wanted some ideological diversity and we have a lot of it. where are you? >> i think i agree that when i have conversations with people in the swing part of what used to be a swing state they say, you know both presumptive nominees are running on i'm better than the alternate campaign. don't judge me against the almighty. judge me against the alternative. that's not going to be enough. people are saying to themselves why are these our only alternatives. biden has to give people a reason to vet for him, not just voting against trump. >> are you comfortable that there isn't a democratic primary? would you like to see biden come up with a better case. >> biden is very popular among

democrats and civics polling -- biden is centering around 80% with democrats. there's no space for an anti-trump? there really is no space for an anti-biden, and -- i mean, you talk about the popularity. you see republicans going to ground breaking ceremonies for build back better and for inflation reduction act because taking credit for -- for projects that they voted against. >> i actually would say that there's not competition because a lot of these people are younger and the bench is younger and they're preserving their ability to run in the future and they don't want to go up against a sitting president. >> can you give us some names? because -- you know, manchin and huntsman, that's not going to get you your unicorn. what other candidate? >> i'm just saying -- i don't think there will be a shortage of candidates. >> why can't you guys name some names? >> because we want to go through a good process. we're going to have a convention in april and we will be very

transparent with the american people as we were with the 30 issues, the common sense issues -- >> so who funds the movement? will we talk about transparency? >> who's that? >> the same people who have groups that are funded with moveon.org that are trying to stop us from getting on the ballot. >> this is a discussion that has to end because of time, but it will not end other than that. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press."

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