this sunday, funding fight. my exclusive interview with ukrainian president voled on the mir zelenskyy who rejects any

diplomatic negotiations to end the wart with russia. >> we don't want to make any dialogue with terrorists because their word is nothing. >> his message to american lawmakers divided over sending more aid to the war effort. >> if russia will kill all of us they will attack nato countries. the price will be higher. >> can ukraine still win the war? plus round three. the republican presidential candidates get ready to take the debate stage here in miami. >> i am pretty confident that we will be the guy that people will ultimately settle on. >> i kick back. >> can any of the gop challenger break through and trump on trial. former president trump is expected to take the stand this week in the civil fraud trial in new york. >> we're being railroaded here. >> why are trump's legal troubles seemingly helping his path to the nomination?

joining me for insight and analysis are amy walter, editor in chief of the cooke political report. telemundo news anchor julio vakerro and democratic pollster cornell belcher and republican strategist sarah fagan. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history. this is a special edition of "meet the press" with kristen welker. >> good sunday morning from miami where we will be hosting the third republican presidential debate on wednesday night with foreign policy front and center. secretary of state antony blinken made an unannounced visit this morning to the israeli occupied west bank to meet with palestinian president mahmoud abbas. it comes as the war in ukraine is raging, the largest armed conflict in europe since world war ii. russia now controls about 18% of ukraine. 18% of the u.s. would be about

the size of alaska or four californias. this includes crimea and part of eastern ukraine which russia has occupied since 2014. it's a war which many predicted russia would quickly dominate, instead has been drawn into what one of ukraine's top generals calls a stalemate. nbc news reporting u.s. and european officials have begun quietly talking to the ukrainian government about what possible peace negotiations russia might entail to win the war. president biden has proposed $105 billion in emergency support for ukraine, israel and other national security threats, but republican support for the war is flagging. on thursday, the republican-led house passed a $14 billion in military aid for israel alone. a move the president will veto. the newly installed house speaker responded. >> we have obligations and have things that we can and should do around the world, but we have to

take care of our own house first. we need to take care of the border in ukraine, we need to take care of america's border, as well. >> i sat down with an emotional ukrainian president volodymyr zelenskyy and admitted his people are tired, but undeterred. one more year of aid and it will be able to close the funding gap or, he warned, the price -- >> president zelenskyy, let me start off by asking you, it has now been more than 600 days since russia invaded ukraine. how would you describe the state of the war right now? >> translator: thank you for the question. as far as the situation on the front is concerned, i think -- of course, i cannot provide all of the details to you, but

nevertheless, but we hold an initiative in our hands. you can imagine what a full-scale war or two years of a full-scale war is like. everybody gets tired. the iron gets tired, but nevertheless, i am proud of our warriors and about people that are strong. our people are helping and our people are mobilized, and our people have a strong desire in some sphere, kristen. we see steps forward. sometimes there are four steps because of land mines that russia mounted there while preparing for counteroffensive and in some spheres we have problems with the airfield. unfortunately, this thing hasn't changed since the beginning of the full-scale invasion.

we have seen russia's domination in the air. it's a fact and without the air defense our steps forward are slow. >> but i can give you one example of the black sea. we have great success in the black sea. even after russia blocked black sea and canceled our grain corridor, grain initiative, by the way, was held to this corridor to countries of asia to countries of africa to manage the hunger, and i think that was very important. crucial. when russia canceled it because they had the initiative in the black sea, they blocked black sea. now we really defeated it. we really defend our black sea and russian fleet been destroyed by our ammunition and now russia doesn't control fleet. that means that we used all

ammunition, sea drones and air defense to defend this region. it's very important. that was a signal -- signal that we can manage this war even against such terrorist organization like kremlin. >> the strategy of this war. this summer and you reiterated right now, the progress has been slower than desired and recently one of your top generals said ukraine has, quote, reached a stalemate. has the war reached a stalemate? >> kristen, you know, on the 24th of february when russia invaded our cities, our country, our land, our families, they attacked all of us. the world gave us three days. some european countries who really believed in us, they said

one month. others said it would be very quick and this is really what they said, but now we speak with you and now it's almost two years. now initiative in our hands, yes, a lot of people, of course, in the world are tired. of course, it's understandable. somebody tired on the battlefield, somebody tired on the works and somebody tired abroad and they want to come back home to their husbands, to their soldiers and these guys, women and children. some leaders to support ukraine yes, of course, because long war. >> i hear you rejecting the characterization by your top general that this is a stalemate. are you changing strategies as has been reported?

>> translator: i believe that today, indeed, the situation is difficult. i don't think that this is a stalemate. it's a check on the part of the russian army, but before that, we did a lot. we had done a lot and we are in a difficult situation. they thought they checkmate us, but this didn't happen. in the country, we took the initiative in our hands. now russia wants to do -- to check us. they are attacking us in the east our country while losing thousands of people and hundreds of pieces of weaponry. we don't see it, but in the direction in the last week, 200 pieces of weaponry, of

ammunition were lost -- have been lost. thousands of people had been lost. they had been killed. >> so we don't see deters. our attitude of the war is someone staying on the one place, but it's not just state. when you stay you kill the enemy and this is the fact. of course, russia understands, that now with the focus of ukraine taken off and when this focus to the middle east and when they tried to divide the world in this crisis, israel, palestine crisis and of course, of course russia is very happy with this war. they don't count how many children were killed there. they don't think about the flag or nationality. we saw some moments, their attitude. we saw in dagestan, this is the

part of russia and this is the biggest wave of antisemitic. they just want to divide the world. to take focus from ukraine to another war and if it will be enough for them, i again am repeating this, if it will be not enough for them. it will not be enough because syria was not enough. they began in ukraine. after ukraine in the middle east, they will continue their plan and you see that iran is supporting them, and ukraine is supporting them with the weapon and in the middle east again. >> so, president zelenskyy, are you looking at a shift in strategy to try to gain the upper hand right now? >> translator: our military are coming up with different plans and different operations in order to move forward faster and

to strike russian federation unexpectedly, but barehanded it's impossible to do without weapons and without relevant, proper weapons and it's a fact. therefore, we have to -- to prepare. we have to clearly understand what steps could be more appropriate, and we have to move forward faster. >> president zelenskyy, nbc news is reporting that u.s. and european officials have begun quietly talking to your government about what possible peace negotiations with russia might look like to end this war. have you personally been involved in these talks and what's the status of these talks? >> a lot of different voices around us. i heard a lot of different voices and the emotions and

the -- without any propositions. a lot of different things, but as for me, i don't have for today, i don't have any -- any relations with russians, and they know my position, that is the position of my country, that is the position of our people. we don't want to make any dialogue with terrorists and the president of the united states and congress, bipartisan support, all these people. they know that i am not ready to speak with the terrorists because their word is nothing. nothing. we can't trust terrorists because terrorists always come back. >> as you know with this attack against israel, americans are now being asked to fund two wars and there's growing skepticism about ongoing support of

ukraine, particularly among republicans in congress. what is your message to u.s. lawmakers who don't want to send another dollar to ukraine? >> translator: thank you very much for this question. first of all, in aid to ukraine, i think it is aid to the united states and the european union. as i said, i believe that ukraine is defending our joint values, common values. i will repeat, i believe that putin wants to divide europe, to weaken the united states of america and it always wants to find a hot spot in europe so that there is no stability in europe in the middle east. what's happening now and on other continents, too, and i believe that ukraine is defending both the european union and the european continent and our common values.

>> one more message, you have to understand how we fight. how we live. you have to understand to come to ukraine and see. we are the same people. we have the same values. i am really thankful to president biden. by the way, he was here, and i think he's strong man, and he was on a historical moment here because he was under missile attack, but he was here and he understood more about ukraine. yes, he knew ukraine even before this invasion. yes, he knew, but he understood that heroic attitude ukraine has to their democracy, to their people and to their families and he understood. he began more strongly to help us, and i am also thankful to congress. i have opportunity to address to congress two times and really,

congress and the bipartisan support was very important and very important moment. now it is a very important moment not to lose the will, not to lose these strong positions and not to lose your democracy. >> as you know -- >> please, it is very important. now you don't send -- you don't send your soldiers. god bless. don't send your daughters and sons to other nato country because if russia will kill all of us they will attack nato countries and you will send your sons and daughters, and it will be -- i'm sorry, but the price will be higher. that is my signal and believe in democracy, believe in ukraine. >> can you help skeptical lawmakers and americans who don't want to send more money to

ukraine? how long should they expect to send more money? when do you anticipate you can end this war, president zelenskyy? >> i think that the next year with the challenges because this is the year of your elections. now we see the critical situation in the middle east, so i think your help is very important for the next year and that is crucial, and i think if we will manage all that i said the gap will be minimized in our budget and after that, after next year if -- if the war will not finish next year, if, if, if it will not finish, i think that using your air defense system, using this cooperation and using these new jobs i think we will manage to minimize this gap and

you will not help us such high price, i'm sure. that's it. >> and to be very specific, you are asking, f-16s are in the process of being ready. what more air defenses do you need, president zelenskyy? can you be specific? >> yes, anti-drone systems and specific drones which our ministers know very well which can attack enemy and also draws with our intelligence and they provide intelligence. these are specific things we begin to produce. >> and when we come back, more of my interview with president zelenskyy including his response to president biden pre

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welcome back. as the republican presidential candidates prepare to meet in miami this week for their third debate, ukrainian president zelenskyy spoke directly to the front-runner who will not be on stage, former president donald trump. president zelenskyy, former president trump who is the gop front-runner has said that if he's re-elected he could end this war in 24 hours. what is your reaction and message to former president trump about that? >> former president trump said in 24 hours that he can manage it and finish the war. for me, what can i say?

he's very welcome. president biden was here, and he -- i think he understood something else which you can understand only being here. i invite, president trump, if he can come here. i will need 24 minutes -- 24 minutes not more. 24 minutes to explain, president trump that he can't manage this war. he can't bring peace because of putin if -- but always if, if he is not trying and if he's not ready to give our territory for this terrible man for the putin. if we are not ready to give it, if you are not ready to give our independence, he can't manage

it. yes. he's very welcome. >> he's welcome to come ukraine. other presidential candidates have obviously come to ukraine, as well. have you had any contact with former president trump since he left office, president zelenskyy? >> no. no. i -- no. no. that's why he is very welcome. we will repeat our tradition which was when he was the president. >> do you think he would have ukraine's back if he were to be re-elected? >> i really -- i don't know. really, i don't know. i hope that -- that it depends not only on president institutionally, i think it depends on the opinion of americans, of your society. i think that is most important.

i think it's important in the united states and eu the attitude of just ordinary people. there -- it's their support. it's their money. it depends on them. >> there are reports that you plan to visit israel. is that true and what will your goal be? >> translator: it start on the first day of the attack by the terrorist organization of hamas against israel. we condemn this aggression and we stated our position, and i said that we are ready to go to israel today. it is difficult to say because i am the president of a country at war, and on our battlefields is

very hard. therefore my visit there depends on a number of things. i have to be open. first -- so what's happening on the battlefield with many things and second, it depends on what they will be able to get our citizens of ukraine who are stranded there if we can get them out of there. if for this, it's necessary for me to be there in israel or egypt, whenever our people are released i will fly there, if it is possible. if it can be done without my involvement with the level of diplomacy, they will do that then. >> do you believe israel is following international law? >> translator: i have to be sincere. we are looking at this situation

like as if it's something new. it is a fire burning between israel and palestine and some people are still throwing matches into this fire, and i am sure that russia was behind and sponsoring hamas and iran, too. that's who is to blame when we talk about law, rules, where there are the terrorists there are no rules and everything is beyond laws. everyone is trying to save their own lives and fight against the enemy using all their efforts and all of the forces. first, you want to finish this war and sit down at the negotiation table and you have to put pressure on russia and iran.

you have to admit that these countries are behind these, and i will also add north korea there. you saw how many korean, north korean munitions were found in gaza and it's a fact and it's difficult, of course. the main thing is that if terrorists are attacking, if terrorists attack, if they -- if they behead children, you have full right to defend people and defend your own country, state, but we have to understand if we can -- we can open humanitarian corridors and take away prisoners of war and have people there, the whole world should do this and all they can to stop this war. >> president zelenskyy, thank

you so much. before you go, if you want to share what keeps you going? do you ever feel defeated? >> i have a lot of power, but even feeling strong and have a lot of energy it doesn't mean that we want to fight all our life because the price is high, like i said, because the war takes the best of us, the best heroes, the best men, women, children, that's it, but we are not ready to give our freedom to this [ bleep ] terrorist putin. that's it. that's why we are fighting. that's it. >> president zelenskyy, thank you so much for your time this morning. we really appreciate it. >> thank you upon. >> president zelenskyy's emotions palpable there. you can see my full interview with the ukrainian president at

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julio vaccaro, amy walter, republican strategist sara fagan and cornell belcher. thank you for being here in miami. >> thanks for having me in miami. >> we will have to come back, right? >> amy let me start with you i want to go around and get everyone's reaction to what we heard from president zelenskyy you could hear his emotion particularly at the end when he used an expletive to talk about putin. what were your take a ways, amy? >> well, he understands the challenge right now in front of him with the united states and the rest of the world in trying to keep ukraine front of mind while there is a war raging in the middle east. so the fact that he linked russia with hamas i thought was an interesting way for him to do this basically what he's saying is what's happening in the middle east, yes, we should be paying attention to that, but understand it is directly linked to the chaos that russia would

like to spread throughout the rest of the world. this is about destabilizing the world order and if we don't do -- if the united states and europe pull out of ukraine, you're only helping to destabilize in other parts of the world. >> julio, that stood out to me, he basically warned the united states you will wind up sending your sons and daughters overseas to defend nato done threes because what have amy is talking about. >> he's always been very successful in keeping the interest on the war, however, i think he's facing a huge challenge right now. he probably has the hardest of jobs trying to convince everybody that this is still very important i was able to be at the border between poland and ukraine right when the war started most people thought there -- refugees thought that the conflict was going to be very short, that ukraine was going to win, that they were going to go back to their country in a few weeks. now it's 20 months gone by and there's no end in sight. so it's becoming very challenging for him. >> sara, no one thought this

conflict would last as long as it has, more than 600 days how do you think skeptical republicans heard president zelenskyy? >> well, i would hope that they listened to his message because i think amy is right, that, you know, russia working with iran, not condemning hamas and their terrorist attack on israel, that tells us a lot about what we need to know between these countries and what's going on in the world. so i hope they listened to him i do believe republicans will do the right thing and fund this, but i think it is going to be a long and painful road to get there between now and the next few weeks. >> cornell, when you talk about republicans funding this, let's look at the polls because look at how many republicans say they think the u.s. is doing too much 62%. that's up from 43% in august so the opposition to, quote, unquote, as some republicans have said write a blank check is

only growing. >> two things stick out for me on this. one is when he connected the money -- sending money or you're going to be sending your sons and daughters, he was doing a lot of good work, i think, for the administration and for those who want to send money because that's the point to make to the american people is that your future and your security is, in fact, connected to this. so i think he helped biden and even sort of some of your senate republicans make this point which is important i am struck by that number and, sara, be with me on this, right? republicans -- i don't know who the republican party s this is not the party of reagan anymore. i mean, look, i remember in 1994 reagan ran -- there is a bear in the woods ads, bear in the woods of course being russia and like we've got to take russia seriously and they are a threat. in the ad he said some people don't think there is a bear in the woods and it is a threat i think this is no longer -- democrats can now run that ad

against republicans. >> the bear is still in the woods. i mean, that's -- it's true. i think the politics get very interesting long-term. as we get into the presidential race next year where you have president trump -- these numbers are reflective of the fact that president trump is the leader of the republican party and this is his view and his followers are following his statements on this that's what's happening here and so as we get into these conflicts, assuming they continue to last through next year, which certainly looks likely, how does trump straddle being supportive of israel and not being supportive of ukraine? particularly when iran and russia are working together. that's going to be complicating for him. raddle being supportive of israel and not being supportive of ukraine particularly when china and russia are working together. that's complicated for him. >> it's complicated for the republicans in the house. that's the fight in the house right now. >> i want to go back to julio's point when he said the challenge that zelenskyy has in selling

this, it's not just to republicans. the numbers among independents, too, and not just in that number, but gallup had another question asking should there be basically a limit to how much money we should be giving to ukraine? and independents, 63% said there should be a limit on this. i think the other piece of this is the republicans' ability to connect the frustrations americans are having at home with inflation and with worries about what's happening on the border and this feeling of insecurity and saying if we have all of this insecurity here at home, what are we doing giving all of our money to a war that's not moving anymore? >> for some reason the israeli war against hamas feels right now more real. you can see the process in american cities and anti-semitism. you can see the discussion right here in real time, and the war in ukraine feels more far away, more distant and more uncertain and maybe more theoretical. >> i think that's why you're seeing this fight. we are on capitol hill this

week. the house approved this funding bill that included cut us to the irs. the democratically led senate said that's a non-starter, if you actually score it out it didn't ultimately cut anything, but i think the question is do you think this gets done in one fell swoop? do you think they deal with israel funding, cornell? >> i don't think they answered that and that's the big question because there seems to be a lot of fever in the republican caucus not to, in fact, tie the two together, and we've seen what happens to speakers of the house on the republican side when they don't listen to freedom caucus. >> well, i think -- look, you have a brand-new speaker. his first action out of the gate is he's got to defend his caucus. he's got to put forward a spending cut. mitch mcconnell is a pro, and he understands that. the question isn't what does the house lead with? the question is what does the house do when the senate sends back the full funding bill? that's when we will learn about mike johnson's governing style

and ability. >> such a key point. it's such a key test for the newly installed house speaker and by the way, the border is a part of the effort to get more funding, julio. do you think that they might do something separate on ukraine and the border which is currently in the discussion. >> that's what mike has said, right? according to people i've spoken with who are very close to these issues in reporting on that on capitol hill, they might go into reforming asylum processes and making it more difficult to have asylum and combatting mexico. that's very tricky for the democrats and republicans. there's no question something has to be done at the border, the crisis is real, but the cost for president biden can be very high. >> this is a real opportunity for democrats, both politically and policy orient side to put these things together, have

meaningful reforms on the border and meaningful money at the border. if they want republicans, this is their opportunity. >> i was going to say i agree with that especially because it becomes part of the bigger compromise package rather than the white house having to go out and make a separate border policy which is going to divide their caucus. >> we will pause it for the most. we will be back with more panel and when we come back, what is the most important presidential quality iowa republica are quality iowa republica are ns loi'm sarah escherich, i'm the life enrichment director at independence village, the senior living community in waukee, iowa. everybody here really, really make you feel like family and that they love you. our goal with tiktok was to enrich the lives of our residents and just to be able to show people what senior living can be like. i think i am a tiktok grandma. my kids think i am. i mean, we're the ones that are being entertained. time goes faster when you're having fun. mlb chooses t-mobile for business for 5g solutions...

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welcome back. with donald trump holding a commanding lead in the primary, the only chance for his republican rivals to shake up the presidential race may be in iowa where the caucuses are just over two months away. joining me now is national political correspondent steve kornacki to take us through the numbers. steve, what headlines are you watching? >> kristen, we have a new poll with our partner in iowa, the des moines register, looking at likely republican caucusgoers and how they are stacking up right now in terms of support and like you said, what's true

nationally, what's true in other big, early primary states is true in iowa. an enormous lead for donald trump, far better than two to one over his nearest rival, or i should say, rivals, because that is the other headline in this poll. nikki haley has moved into a tie in iowa with ron desantis. some upward movement for haley, but both of them light years behind donald trump who continues to dominate, and we've got some new numbers we can share with you this morning that i think will help explain what goes into trump's dominance and what goes into that rise we're seeing with nikki haley. so we asked republicans in iowa what is extremely important to you? extremely important to you in a candidate? you can see here, nearly three out of four said the ability to beat joe biden, electability is more important. no other trait or characteristic came that close. you can see how some of the others stacked up there and these are the other traits stand

out there. what about the other voters who say electability is extremely important. how are they breaking in iowa? you can see here, they're breaking for former president donald trump. -electability was supposedly going to be his undoing, all of those trump-backed candidates who lost in 2022, he lost in 2020 and his opponents thought this was going to give republican voters pause. our poll shows no evidence of that in iowa. where is trump vulnerable in iowa. where has haley made inroads. people who say a candidate who can work with the opposing party is extremely important to them. it's a smaller number than the electability sample, but it's a significant number nonetheless, and you see trump leads with them. nikki haley is within ten points of donald trump. 33-25 on this question, and then what i think is interesting, we also looked at the people who said to be having a candidate who is a person of faith is extremely important. how are they breaking and on

this one, trump is nearly at 50%, towering above the field. folks who say a person of faith as their candidate is extremely important and notable here, tim scott, we've seen struggling in polls in iowa and elsewhere. he more than anyone has made religious faith, hoping to connect with the evangelical voters in iowa, doesn't seem to be connecting with voters on this question and that explains a big part of his struggles in iowa and elsewhere, kristen? >> it sure does, and it underscores the durability of former president trt. steve kornacki, great stuff. my colleague dasha burns is in des moines, iowa, with news that could shake up the race there. dasha, what do you have? >> kristen, good morning. will iowa governor kim reynolds endorse? that's a question that campaigns, reporters and voters have been asking throughout this primary and we now have the answer. reynolds will endorse a candidate and that candidate is

ron desantis according to sources close to both governors. she will make it official here at a rally in des moines. let's be clear about this, iowa governors traditionally remain neutral ahead in the nation caucuses and is a high-profile break from former president trump who has been repeatedly hitting reynolds for what he sees is a lack of loyalty. it's true that desantis trails trump by 30 points in iowa and this is the only endorsement that could actually move the needle in a state whose results could set the narrative for the rest of the primaries. reynolds is wildly popular with republican voters here and her support could give desantis some much-needed momentum. in iowa whose campaign has gone all in. and before he takes a debate stage on wednesday night. >> the all-important question, will it move the needle?

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welcome back. the panel is still with us. cornell, i want to start with you. your reaction to the polling we

just saw which shows that former president trump still has the strong lead in iowa, but now desantis is getting this key endorsement as dasha just reported. >> we'll see if this endorsement bumps him, because they need a bump. when i was looking at this endorsement in iowa and you can see if someone wassing ginning to challenge him. it's tough to look at these internals, right? his favorability is still higher and also more intense. his vote is less fluid than the other voters. he's sitting at 43, 42% right now and then there's this argument that if the field shrinks does it help someone else, and the field shrinks right now. 12% of voters in iowa right now say that he is their second choice. so they're literally running out of vote right now to get to him. >> sarah? >> i think these candidates have to hold on to the fact that the number basically is 75% who are willing to look at somebody else. >> do you think there's still

time? >> i do think there's time. look, iowa has always been more about momentum more than who wins the actual race. so if trump underperforms, if nikki haley or governor desantis overperform that becomes the story in new hampshire and it gives someone the opportunity to have a momen there, and that's the strategy they have to be thinking about there. >> amy, what's your take in how significant is this endorsement by governor reynolds? >> i don't know that it's going to dent the biggest asset that donald trump has which is he's seen as the candidate who can beat joe biden, and so having support of a governor, i think 20 or 30 years ago that was the sort of thing that could really jump-start your campaign. the debate will be very important for desantis to be able to try to blunt the momentum from haley. so this to me is part number one of blunting the momentum and we're no longer talking just about her going after the debate

and having the strong performance and the other person i'm looking at is tim scott. he is all in on iowa and he has to be, but as your poll pointed out, the fact that he's been leaning into his faith, trying to win over evangelical voters and even with voters who say that faith is the most important issue to them, he's barely registering. >> it is just so staggering to see that number and how high trump registers are. this is the debate taking place here in miami. we are so excited about it. this is a place where you see former president trump battling it out with the governor ron desantis and the flip side to all of this is that trump's gotten big endorsements here. >> absolutely. senator rick scott just endorsed him and that's interesting because he's not big on endorsing. they're friends from a long time ago, but i remember interviewing senator scott in march this year, and he wasn't willing to say he was going to support trump, but he was very outspoken

about criticizing ron desantis and his policies. they disagree on so many issues, abortion, in-state tuition for dreamers and many other policies. it's not the first endorsement that donald trumps gets in florida and a year ago, ron desantis was winning with such a large margin and he's losing the grip in his own party and his own state. >> that was his selling point, look at my big win. the backdrop to the debate is the polling and it's pretty stunning to look at. this is from a new york times college poll which shows that trump leads biden in five out of six critical states and this is where mr. trump will be counter programming the debate. sarah, he'll be holding a rally

here and guess what? on monday he'll be in court. his fraud trial and i spoke to one of his allies, they plan to capitalize on his optics. they are feeling defiant about him being in court. what are you going to be watching for on the debate sage? >> well, these kant ats taking on trump they have to figure out their moment and the dynamic with the two folks tied and the governors, hail sdpe desantis, get is how do they play it? i think she really needs to stay the course. she's done so well in these debates and she comes across almost statuesque which is exactly how you want to be described at this time in the world and what's going on in the world. i think for desantis it's harder and he has to figure out how to peel off trump voters. in many ways he needs to not take the bait by going after her which will be the temp tagdz because she's not really pulling from him. he needs to pull from trump. so he has to figure out how to bucket trump, and pull people

off of trump. >> cornell, that's been his challenge the whole time. you have desantis running to the right of trump, trying to get the trump voters, but you can't get the trump voters. they're solidly behind trump. >> they've helped trump in many ways. when you look at nbc's polling and they're in iowa, for example, when you look at the traits. trump has a big advantage on the traits. all traits aren't equal because i'm going to guess that the most important trait is can they beat joe biden and by the way, trump has a big advantage there, but the whole field has helped him because all bought into the big lie. if, in fact, voters say he's already beaten biden, what's my rational for voting for you? >> amy, what will you be watching for wednesday? >> i like what sarah set up. this dynamic with the two candidates right now who are battling to be that alternative to donald trump. don't we feel like we're back in 2016 again? >> a lot of days, yes. >> the focus is especially

because trump's not on stage, they go and turn on each other to become the second place candidate still trailing trump by a significant amount and not willing to challenge trump directly in part because some of the things you would think, i'm going to go challenge the front running candidate whether it's indictments or electability, voters don't buy it. >> julio, do you think the gloves start to come off on wednesday? >> they have to. time is running out. so they have to, and i think nikki haley has been very successful right now to show that she is a good alternative, but they just have to prove that this is a two people race before running. >> the other thing is you've got candidates as amy pointed out, senator scott and chris christie. chris christie has the ability to do that. he's probably the most skilled debater on the stage, and so we need to be looking for that as well. >> we'll see if anyone has a

breakout moment. before we go, join us for the republican presidential debate wednesday at 8:00 p.m. eastern and 5:00 p.m. pacific and streaming on nbc news now. that is all for today. thank you to our great panel. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press."