this sunday, confirmation

battle. president-elect donald trump's controversial cabinet picks are sending shock waves through washington. and raising questions about how he will carry out his second administration. >> i don't think it's a serious nomination for the attorney general. >> i was shocked that he -- has been nominated. >> i have concerns that he can't get across the finish line. >> must be the worst nomination for a cabinet position in american history. >> will the senate approve mr. trump's pick? plus, total control. republicans take charge of both chambers of congress, clearing a path for mr. trump to enact his policy plan. >> we're going to raise an america first banner abovovthis place. we have a mandate from the american people. >> we should regard this election not nearly as a defeat. but more importantly as a challenge. >> how will democrats operate with the gop in control? >> politics is tough. and it's -- many cases, not a very nice world. but it is a nice world today. >> my guest this morning, house

democratic leader hakeem jeffries and republican senator mark wayne mullen of oklahoma. joining me are co-anchor of pbs news hour and politico playbook's co-author eugene daniels and former white house press secretary jen psaki and lonnie chen at the hoover institution. welcome to sunday, it's "meet the press." >> in nbc news in washington, the longest running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. >> good sunday morning. president-elect donald trump is racing to assemble his cabinet making it clear the most important qualification may be personal loyalty to him. facing scrutiny trump's election of now former florida congressman matt gaetz to be attorney general. the house's ethics investigation into him most recently zeroing in on alleged drug use and sexual misconduct

with a minor and accepting improper gifts and obstruction and other allegations. but effectively ending this week after gaetz resigned from congress following trump's announcement. gaetz has denied wrongdoing. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle are calling on the committee to release its report before a confirmation hearing. >> the house of ethics report, see it before voting on him? >> i don't want there to be any limitation at all on what the senate can consider absolutely. >> do you have any concerns about someone who's been accused of sex trafficking? possibly leaving the department of justice? >> i have concerns that he can't get across the finish line and we're going to spend lot of political capital. >> release the report. >> yes i do. >> house speaker mike johnson initially said quote the speaker not involved with what happens in ethics but a day later and after visit with president-elect trump at mar-a- lago. johnson said he would strongly discourage the report's release. >> the condition -- there's a

reason for that. [ inaudible ] healthy thing with the institution. >> now gaetz has been a fierce critic of the department he has now been tapped to lead. the department that investigated him for sex trafficking but did not charge him. >> i don't care if it takes every second of our time and every ounce of our energy. we either get this government back on our side or we defund and get rid of abolish, the fbi, cdc, acs. doj. every last one of them if they don't come to heel. >> several gop sources have told nbc news that more than half of senate republicans including some in senior leadership positions, are privately saying they don't see a path forgaetz to be confirmed and would not support him. then there's the nomination of robert f. kennedy jr. to run the department of health and human services and he now says

he's not against vaccines. >> i'm not going to take away anybody's vaccines. i have never been an antivaccine. >> but kennedy has frequently pushed false and misleading claims about vaccines. despite decades of medical studies that show vaccines are safe and effective. kennedy even touted a false conspiracy theory that covid was designed to target certain ethnicities. >> covid-19 is targeted to attack caucasians and -- and black people. the people who are most immune are -- and chinese. >> can you name any vaccines that you think are good? >> i think some of the live virus vaccines are probably -- averting more problems than they're causing. there's no vaccine that is, you know, safe and effective. i do believe that autism does come from vaccines.

a mountain of scientific study links autism to early vaccination. with certain vaccines. >> according to the cdc, there's no evidence of any link between autism and vaccines. which protect children from contagious diseases like measles. also under scrutiny? president-elect trump's pick for defense secretary pete hegseth. a former fox news host and decorated combat veteran. police in monterey, california say he was investigated in 2017 for an alleged sexual assault after a gathering at a hotel hosting an event for republican women. he was not arrested and no charges were filed. his attorney telling nbc news it didn't happen and the trump transition team saying quote, hegseth has denied any and all accusations and no charges were filed. we look forward to his confirmation as united states secretary of defense. hegseth also has argued that women should not serve in combat roles. >> you don't like women in combat. >> no. >> why not? >> i love women service

members. who contribute amazingly. because everything about men and women serving together makes the situation more complicated. and complication in combat means -- casualties are worse. >> now the pentagon opened combat roles to women in 2016 and women have succeeded and excelled in the roles since then. we have republican senator mark wayne mullen of oklahoma. welcome to "meet the press," senator mullen. >> thanks for having me on, kristen. >> well, thank you for being here. i want to start with former florida congressman matt gaetz who of course president-elect trump as we just said announced this week was his pick for attorney general. you have said you trust mr. trump's decision making in naming gaetz. but you have been critical of gaetz as well. here's a little bit of what you have had to say. >> we had all seen the videos he was showing on the house floor that all of us had walked away of the girls that he has

slept with. >> he walked up to me and said governor kristi noem. she's a fine and you can put the b. word in place there. this is the type of individual matt gaetz is. >> you clearly have questions about matt gaetz's character but do you believe that matt gaetz is qualified to serve as attorney general? >> you know, there's no question that matt gaetz and i have had our differences and that's -- that's no secret. moving forward, i do -- i do respect president trump's right to appoint these individuals but underneath article 2, section 2, congress has to advise and convent and matt gate z is going to go through the same scrutiny as every other individual. the senate has to confirm him. i think it's a very, very tough role. i have got a tough situation and that i have to got my personal opinions and they're really not opinions. i have to -- i got to set my personal situation with matt to the side and look at the facts.

if he's qualified, he's qualified. to be quite frank i didn't know he was an attorney even until after he was appointed attorney general and i had to do my research on him. and i know that's crazy because i served with him but just never did the dig to find out actually his actual -- degree. what it was in. >> well, and speaking of digging into his background, th house ethics committee was about to release the findings of the allegation of misconduct by former congressman gaetz and of course abruptly resigned before that happened. a number of your colleagues including members to have senate committee have said they would like to see that report. should the house ethics committee release that report, senator? >> absolutely. and i believe the -- i believe the senate should have access to that. now should it be released to the public or not? that's -- i guess that would be part of the negotiations. but that should be definitely part of our decision making. once again, i go back to it and article 2, section 2, in the

constitution, the -- the senate has to advise and consent these individuals and in that process, we're going to get matt gaetz the same chances we'll give all president trump's nominees and by the way, i do believe that president trump has the ray built to pick really, really -- ability to pick really, really good people. you can see why he was successful in business and running his campaign. i have no doubt that president trump that believes that matt is the right person to do the right job. but at the same time, the background of matt gaetz does matter and what the -- the decisions that the senate makes has to be within our boundaries of the constitutional authority that we have and we will do our due diligence there with it. and i'll say this. matt will be treated the same as every nominee out there from myself and every other senator out there. >> and you said background matters and i want to k you about his views and here's a little bit of what matt gaetz had to say last year about the

very law enforcement agencies that he is poised today be tapped to -- poised to be tabbed to oversee. >> we either get this government become on our side or we defund and get rid of and abolish the fbi and cdc and dojment every last one of them. if they do not come to heel. >> senator, the you support getting rid of the fbi, the doj under any circumstances? >> no. i actually agree with what matt was saying there. hard as that is for me to say that. actually agree with him. what he was saying is they'll going to come to the side of the american people and quit playing politics. the doj and fbi has been politicized. no question about it. we've seen what they've done to president trump. we've seen the attacks that they continue to go after him with. the doj is 100% weaponized. you saw the fbi and the fake russian hoax and you saw the fbi shielding the biden family and shielding the laptop from

the american people during the election. if they don't want to come back and do their job, and their job is to keep america safe, to watch over the america's freedom through doj, making sure this american justice system is running smoothly and leaving politics out of it. but they haven't lately and if they don't want to come back and get focused on what the american people's mandate was for them, then we do need to revamp the system and say hey, maybe we've got it wrong. so i don't disagree with what matt was saying there. >> well. worth noting of course hunter biden has been convicted now on federal charges and the charges that were brought against president-elect trump were brought by -- >> process to get there. >> let me ask you broadly though. do you support the president- elect telling his attorney general to prosecute to go after people he considers to be his political enemies? >> the president didn't say that. that's -- that's being taken completely out of context. and president trump hasn't been the one that weaponized the doj

to go after his political edgemis. president trump did not do that when he was in office the first four years. he didn't do that against the clintons but he didn't who did weaponize the doj was the biden administration. continuously going after president trump treating him completely different. the classified records that was kept at mar-a-lago. versus the classified documents that was kept in the garage of biden. and how the different reports read. it is no question they were treated different and now who has weaponized the political -- or the doj is the democrats. and no one can deny what they did to president trump with four years underneath biden. >> senator, it's worth noting there's absolutely no evidence that president biden had anything to do with the federal charges brought against president-elect trump. but are you -- >> garland was appointed by president biden and there's no question that the white house was informed about what was happening. >> senator, you have said we're

too good of a country to have the justice department go after political opponents. are you comfortable with the doj doing exactly what you are saying you oppose? >> if the doj is willing to take a hard look at themselves and say hey we've got it wrong. there's some leadership positions that have to change. the people that made these decisions have to go. and get the doj focused on what their priorities are supposed to be and that's to be making sure the constitution of the united states is equal for every person out there. and as the doj is willing to do that and capable of doing that and they dit it for decades by the way. for decades. if they're able to get back and say hey we've got it wrong. let's do it. i tell people all the time never fired a single individual for making a mistake. i will fire you if you can't admit you made a mistake. so has the fbi. >> again, senator, let me just ask you bottom line here. have you decided at this point whether you are going to vote

for matt gaetz? >> oh. absolutely not. i have not made a decision who i'm going to vote for with any one of these nominations as said i'm going to treat everybody the same and do my constitutional duty. and that's to go through advise and consent and that means background, that means we're going to be -- going to be doing everything we can to verify the individuals and know who they are and put them in the best place to succeed to put america first and i understand that the american people we have an agenda. and a mandate from the american people because president trump won the popular vote and overwhelming electoral vote and they want to have a new direction for the country and we agree with that. >> ask you about the other picks and you are of course a member of the senate armed services committee which will hold confirmation hearings into trump's pick for defense secretary, fox news host pete hegseth. since then allegations of quality in 2017 have surfaced including he paid the accusers part of a nondisclosure agreement.

senator. that's according to documents obtained by the "washington post." mr. hegseth's attorney denied the allegations of sexual misconduct and he was never charged. but do you think that this matter could sink pete hegseth's confirmation? >> it could. but let me tell you about pete. he's an individual that served 20 years in the services. honorable discharge veteran who served as a -- as a combat individual that walked in to afghanistan and iraq and has two bronze stars and highly decorated combat veteran that is a civilian today. he's a major. and he fit the role of defense secretary -- secretary of defense. i think he's a good pick but once again, as allegations come out, we'll figure out if as a senate moves forward with the advise and consent to the president of the united states, and doing our constitutional duties, we'll figure out if he can get confirmed or not. and i do think that pete is a good pick for the position. >> just to follow up with you. because you had said you absolutely planned to vote for him. do you still absolutely plan to

vote for him? >> well, i do. right now i start with yes. but can i be moved off of that? i'm sure. everybody starts at some point and some people start at dead even and some people start at a yes and some people start at a no. but i started as a yes and it's going to take some movement for me to move off of that. >> let's talk about president trump's pick for hhs secretary robert f. kennedy jr. of course he has said he believes that vaccine is safe and effective. you have been on the record defending the efficacy of vaccines. are rfk's views on vaccines a deal breaker for you, senator? >> no. i absolutely -- appreciate bobby kennedy taking hard look at the vaccine. there's some questions that have to be made. and i appreciate some of the scrutiny that's going through there. i think bobby can answer all those and i have sat down and had -- long conversations with him and i actually find the guy extremely intelligent when it comes to this stuff. and some of the stuff does raise a lot of questions but i

have a question for you. the democrats are spending so much time talking about the scrutiny of president trump's pick and yet, we didn't spend -- spend this amount of time scrutinizing biden's pick? i mean, we can talk about rachel the assistant secretary of hhs. i think that's a pretty controversial pick from pronoun he or she decides to use. we talk about sam, the assistant secretary for -- executive underneath energy of -- secretary of energy and the individual was -- was arrested multiple times for stealing luggage off of conveyor belts inside airports. i didn't see this same type of scrutiny the democrats used on these individuals' picks. there's been a lot of picks and we can talk about pete buttigieg. really qualified? i don't see the same people given the scrutiny here. >> we scrutinized all the picks robustly. but just go back to. you do believe vaccines are safe and effective you have said.

you are not concerned about rfk jr. overseeing the largest health agency in the land? >> i have -- i have said that there's some positives to vaccinations. i have also questioned vaccines multiple times and i think they should be questionized. for instance, why is america highest in autism? so what is causing that? is it our diet or some of the stuff we're putting in our children's system? we used to be -- used to be almost not even heard of. then it went from one to 10,000 and one to 5,000 and some races right now one out of every 36 kids by the age of 3 had developed some form of autism. what is causing that? and if it is a vaccine, there's no -- nothing wrong with actually taking a hard look and finding is that what's causing it or something else we're putting in the new mexico we're the most developed country in the world. all things should be on the table and if that's crude 90sing vaccinations, that'sexactly where we need to go. >> i have to say no credible expert or study has shown a

link between vaccines and autism. just want to be on the record with that. >> exactly. >> we're almost out of time. >> the studies -- when we ask about the vaccines, and the study that was done specific for autism, it's extremely vague. and in fact, there's not been a direct study on each individual vaccine if it has a possibility of causing it. they have an overall reaching view and i have asked these questions because said on health in the house and senate and we have got almost no answers on that. >> just no scientific everyday for that. of course president-elect trump floated the idea of recess appointments. is that something you would support? >> yeah. if it became the last option. it is very difficult to get there. remember, under beneath article 2, section 3 the president does have the right to call us into recess. if we can't audrey and that means if we get bogged down and

let's say hakeem jeffries in the house is holding up some of the senate -- some of the -- not the senate confirmation but some of the stuff that's going on in the house, not to do with confirmations or deal with chuck schumer in the senate with confirmations the president does have the right to call us into recess. however, it's very difficult to get that done because in 2014, obama did this. republicans took him to court. and underneath the cannon case, and we actually won. so there's some -- there's some cases out there that shows that this wouldn't be temporary. first of all we'd have to be in recess for ten days and both houses agree to be in recess for ten days before the first appointment. the appointment would be temporary, only at least two years or until the next congress goes in. and so we still have to go through the confirmation period anyway. absolute last resort but if that's what we have to do. then absolutely let's do it. but i would say that would be last option. >> yep, and you talk about hakeem jeffreys and put this to him coming up in just a minute.

but senator mark wayne mullins, thank you for joining us this morning. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. and when we come back, the house democratic leader hakeem jeffries joins me next. [chair deflates] [heels slam on floor] oh, wow. hey j, this project might need a bit of... zhuhzing... holler back, warren. [swoosh] please let me know your thoughts. best regards, warren. ♪ i am genius (whoaaa) ♪ even with my mom's alzheimer's, we've still been close. but when she developed agitation that may happen with dementia due to alzheimer's disease, a distance came between us. she'd get upset when i'd try to help, began wandering,

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"that makes sense." - i observed the changes in steve's memory and i thought i should try that too. - after taking prevagen, i just didn't have to work so hard to remember things. prevagen. at stores everywhere without a prescription. welcome back. republicans have retained control of the household ago narrow majority of 218 seats to democrats' 212. with five races still uncalled at this hour. joining me now the house democratic leader congressman hakeem jeffries of new york and also the author of the new children's book "the abcs of democracy." welcome back to "meet the press," leader jeffries, thank you for being here. >> good morning. great to be with you. >> well, it is great to have you and i want to start with the results of the presidential election.

for more than a year now, you have issued really dire warnings about what a second trump term would look like. take a look at a little bit of what you have said. >> it would be a very dangerous devastating and destructive thing if donald trump got anywhere close to 1600 pennsylvania avenue. the american people should be terrified. everything that we care about is on the ballot this november. roe versus wade can fall, then anything can fall. democracy itself as we know it can fall. >> leader jeffries, why do you think those warnings didn't resonate with voters? >> well, i have congratulated incoming president donald trump and house democrats we look forward to working with the incoming administration whenever and wherever possible to find bipartisan common

ground. to solve problems for the american people. that's what the american people want us to do. to deliver real results on the issues that matter. but at the same period of time we will continually push back against far right extremism when necessary. we will protect social security and we will protect medicare and we will protect the affordable care act and we will protect reproductive freedom and we will protect the progress we've mad made on having a sustainable plane it. >> ask you about new reporting that's come out and axios news is reporting that some democrats are frustrated with speaker emerita pelosi's public critique saying she needs to let you lead the caucus. one lawmaker said quote sheneeds to take a society. another said quote pelosi is not being respectful of you. do you agree? >> i think speaker emerita pelosi has been incredibly

respectful of the entire leadership team and it's an honor to stand on the shoulders of speaker nancy pelosi an incredibly consequential public servant in america. at the same time, you know, house democrats, we're proud of the new leadership team. we're looking forward to confronting the challenges we have to face on the behalf of the american people and focus like a laser beam on dealing with the issues related to working class americans and middle class americans and those who afire to be part of the middle class. to make sure that we can build a healthy and affordable economy and help out everyday americans who far too long have been struggling to live paycheck to paycheck. that's a team effort and we're going to dive right in as a team. >> very quickly though, do you think she's undermining your leadership with her public pronouncements? >> no. >> okay. that was quick. one of the arguments that nancy

pelosi made is that president biden should have gotten out of the race sooner. do you believe he should have dropped out sooner? >> i think that president biden will go down in history as one of the most consequential presidents of all time and i was thankful for all the work we were able to do together. he did make the decision to pass the torch to vice president kamala harris. she ran with it and did the best job she could under incredibly challenging circumstances. and a little over 100 days. she came close. but we fell short. and we'll have to figure out through an afteraction analysis and we have said that should be candid and clear eyed and comprehensive about what was done right and what was done wrong and collectively and most importantly, how do we improve upon our performance so we're in the strongest possible position to solve the real challenges that everyday americans face and have faced

for far too long? the deck has been stacked against the american middle class and those who aspire to be part of it. we recognize that. >> to your next point and it starts with your book. this t new book. this is a children's book and it's based of course though on the floor speech that you delivered outlining democratic values when you became leader. one of the values and i want to put this up on the screen, is you say quote, working families over the well connected. in this past election, donald trump won working class voters traditionally democrats stronghold. why? >> well, listen, illustrated book for people of all ages and hopefully will set forth some values and a blueprint for how we move forward. we clearly have to put working families over the well connect in america. let's be clear. when you work hard, and play by

the rules, you should be able to provide a comfortable living for yourself and for your family. purchase a home. educate your children. have access to high quality health care. go on vacation every now and then. >> leader jeffries, why -- jeffries, why -- why did president-elect trump resonate with the voters instead of democrats? what were you all missing? >> well, that's going to be an incredibly important part of our analysis. what i can tell you is that our focus has and always will be on delivering for everyday americans. that american dream that i talked about, it's been under assault for decades. for a wide variety of reasons. the outsourcing of good paying american jobs and the decline of unionization and of course the rise of automation all jammed up people in the heartland of america. the great lakes states and working families all across the country. and it's going to fall on

democrats, republicans, and independents to do something about it decisively. to me, that's the lesson that i take from the most recent election. >> i want to ask you now about that report that the house ethics committee was set to vote on to release into former congressman matt gated of course president-elect trump's pick to be the next attorney general. speaker johnson is now saying that the report should not be released. what's your reaction to what speaker johnson is saying? >> of course it should be released. and that's not just democrats saying that. you have repeatedly seen senate republicans make clear who are on the senate judiciary committee, or throughout that chamber, say that they want access to all available information so they can make a decision about whether the nominee for attorney general is qualified to serve in that office. the senate has a clear responsibility to serve as a

senate and coequal branch of government and a check and balance. that's as america as baseball, motherhood and apple pie. >> all right. let me ask you about another pick. president-elect trump's pick for director of national intelligence tulsi gabbard. of course your former colleague in the house. here's what debbie wasserman schultz said about her this week. take a look. >> gabbard is someone who has met with war criminals. violated the department of state's guidance and secretly clandestinely went to syria and met with assad who gassed and attacked his own people with chemical weapons. she's considered essentially to be by most assessments a russian asset. >> leader jeffries, do you agree she's a russian asset? >> here's what i have to say about several of the nominations that have been made

by the incoming president, including the one that debbie was referring to. the incoming president throughout the campaign promised the american people that we would have the best economy, the best border security, and the best administration possible. the question that has to be asked is this the best that we can do? in the context of some of these nominations? is this the very best that america has to offer for a moment like this? with so many challenges that we confront. of course not. america deserves better. hopefully, we'll see the senate republicans do their job. scrutinize these picks. certainly confirm those that meet the basic level of qualifications. and reject others. >> leader jeffries, you are not willing to say she's a russian asset. >> no. that's not how i would

characterize her at this particular juncture but i'm open to scrutinizing whatever information is presented to all of us but this is going to fall on senate democrats and republicans. >> very quickly of course there's talk of recess appointments and president- elect trump tries to push that, is there any recourse that you have in the house to try to block that from happening? what would you do? >> well, we will work very closely with our senate democratic colleagues and i have great trust and respect in legaller chuck schumer and kick durbin to make sure that no inruns can be done as best as we can. flush listen, at the end of the day we have to stop the brinksmanship and stop the partisanship, stop the bickering and the back fighting. and the american people sent a message. they want us to work together to deliver real results and solve problems for hard working american taxpayers. that's the job that house democrats will do. >> all right. leader jeffries, thank you so much for joining us this morning. we really appreciate it.

>> thank you. and when we come back, president-elect donald trump's cabinet picks have shocked washington. will the senate confirm some of his most controversial choices? the panel is next. liberty mutual customized my car insurance so i saved hundreds. with the money i saved i thought i'd get a wax figure of myself. cool right? look at this craftmanship. i mean they even got my nostrils right. it's just nice to know that years after i'm gone this guy will be standing the test of ti... he's melting! oh jeez... nooo... oh gaa... only pay for what you need. ♪ liberty, liberty, liberty, liberty ♪ ( ♪♪ ) asthma. it can make you miss out on those epic hikes with friends.

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welcome back. the panel is here. co-anchor of pbs news hour, eugene daniels, white house correspondent for politico. jen psaki, former white house press secretary and host. and lonnie chen, fellow at the hoover institution at stanford university. thanks to all of you for being here. omna. let me start with you. we have been talking about president-elect trump's cabinet picks throughout this morning. of course some of them are controversial. to some extent this is really the first big test for republicans in the senate. isn't it? >> it's the first big loyalty test probably the first of many to come. and loyalty is the one thread that ties all of these nominees together.

look, we've seen the way the nomination process is unfolding, for team trump. making the decisions very, very quickly and his team tells us they believe they have a mandate because of the way he won the election to put into place whoever he wants to see his agenda put through. they don't want to repiece the mistakes of the past where they leaned on republican establishment and went with candidates that were problematic. john kelly, people who disagreed with the president. and stood up to him to restrain some of his worst impulses in office. those people will not be in the room this time. so for the senators i think the big question right now is, how will they treat these nominees? and how they -- oppose some of them and ask enough questions about anti-vax status and hegseth's lack of experience and management of any kind and gabbard's questioning of her own intelligence committees already all the questions around gaetz. it's a big indication of how they'll act for the whole presidency moving forward.

>> in 2016 the picks were establishment and now it's all about loyalty. matt gaetz seems to have one of the toughest task. it's going to be very tough for him senators say to get confirmed. how do you think this will play out? >> loyalty and also from a disdain for the -- the exact agencies that they will be in charge of in a lot of cases too. >> yes. great point. >> for gaetz i think the -- he is probably easiest person for senators to behind the scenes say i'm not with it because the kinds of allegations that we've seen publicly already, lot of it already happening, is not that he doesn't have experience, it's that, you know, allegedly that he had a relationship with women who were under -- girls who were under 18 years old right? but the difference is, this happens all the time. with republicans. we've seen it for years. they say things to us behind closed doors and say the exact opposite or most importantly

vote the exact pop sit. that's a pocket that gaetz here right not become the attorney general or he might because the senators are going to do likely the rub e stamping act of it. the ones to watch are up in 2026 and the folk worse in the kind of bluer purpler states who are safer. people like susan collins. goes against gaetz going to get more support in her home state. >> of course lonnie, gaetz has denied any wrongdoing and you just heard senator markwayne mullin say he has not decided how he's going to vote yet but he does want to see the report. >> the advise and consent function is a serious function and i think a lot of senators will take it very seriously. and 53 is a significant majority for republicans. but it's not 60. right? and so it doesn't take all that many republicans to peel off before there is a problem there. but obviously, there's a focus on some of these nominees and just step back for a minute though. there's a lot of nominees that

are not getting as much attention that are actually very, very good choices, whether it's doug burrgum. marco rubio has strong bipartisan support we see that with elise stefanik. i think that -- you can spend time talking about the controversial ones. but the reality is, there are some very good appointments here too. that i think aren't getting a lot of attention and should because they're important from a policy perspective. >> jenments you were in the biden administration when the president was making his picks. talk a little bit about that. >> well, we're seeing here play south is clearly this is not how a normal process goes. and how normal process goes is there's an extensive vetting process where candidates are asked everything about their personal lives. everything about their finances. clearly we're not seeing that right now. i think -- i understand your point here. but if you look at two of the big four as we can shorthand them to the department of justice, and the secretary --

the department of defense, you have nominees that are not qualified and have major ethical issues that are publicly known. so i think the lack of focus on some of the other nominees is more because that is quite alarming to not just democrats but republicans as well. and i think there's an ease here in just -- focusing on what the tabloid headlines are. and i would hope and i would advise democrats not to just do that. right? because it's easy just to focus on oh, he had allegedly had sex with a minor. he's also not qualified for the job. in multiple of these cases. and that's the key thing here. >> what about that? the ethical questions? >> look. the ethical questions are serious. but i would say we have seen nominations before from presidents of both parties where there have been ethical and substantive issues and let's not forget we had a nominee for hhs secretary in this administration who had never dealt with health care before being nominated. so i think -- notion that -- >> look i'm not here -- he was

the attorney general for the state of california. this is a little bit of a different -- >> suing health care companies. >> i think the -- the issue here is that i'm raising that i hope that is part of the process here, not just the ethical questions and this is my point, is somebody who, yes, he was a military veteran and that should be honored. but he is somebody never overseen an entity as large and expansive as the department of defense be sitting in the oval office and in the situation room advising the president on thelives of servicemen and women. be the one? >> speed at which the nominations is coming out is forcing us to have the conversations and i think forting republicans to have annals answers they don't have yet. last time he was elected mr. trump didn't make a single nomination until december. we are seeing key positions rolled out after the other which raises questions about how the decisions are being made and also harder to q ask

questions. >> what about the tension between yes, you have the ethical questions but then also the questions about whether these folks, some of them, are actually having the right experience for the roles they're being picked for? >> to jen's point. if democrats can convince enough senators, republican senators, on the issues and the policy -- descriptions and whether or not these people have the management experience, that's probably a better lane for them to try to do this in. right? because you -- you are not going to see them -- we have seen this for a long time in the senate and the house, is that you know, a lot of the tabloid stuff doesn't bother them right and that's been key as trump has run the republican party. democrats can do that. talk to them behind closed doors and they can do a pressure campaign right? to convince some of the senators to do the thing that they're staying behind closed doors that they already want to do? >> you should pick one. this is hardest -- >> we can't do all of them.

>> the public-private thing is important too because the votes was private vote. they will have to publicly defend votes for the nominees. >> great conversation guys. stands by, we have more to come, when we come back, president biden's thoughts from his time as a senator on the role the senate should play the biggest companies deliver an exceptional customer experience. what makes it possible? 5g solutions from t-mobile for business. las vegas grand prix chose t-mobile

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welcome back. the senate's role in providing advice and con sent on a president's cabinet nominees is in the spotlight once again as some of president-elect trump's picks raise eyes on capitol hill. as george bush was preparing to take office, then senator joe biden joined this broadcast with his thoughts about the senate's duty to closely examine white house appointees. >> hear so often people saying the president should get his picks. if that was a thing there wouldn't be thing call advice and consent in the constitution. one of course he picks someone for job who says they want to

do away with the job. i'm not going to vote for anybody that says my purpose is to get rid of the department. number two if you have machine for the job who communicates to the public at large, that they are not likely to even handed way, apply the law, whatever it happens to be, whatever department, then that's a reason not to be. for example, i have -- voted against attorneys general in both administrations. both administrations. >> when depression is a journey. i'd made some progress on my antidepressant. but i was still masking my symptoms. so i talked to my doctor. she told me i could build on my wins, without changing my antidepressant. rexulti, when added to an antidepressant, significantly reduced depression symptoms more than an antidepressant alone. and less depression? that's a win. elderly people with dementia-related psychosis have increased risk of death or stroke. antidepressants may increase suicidal thoughts and actions

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welcome back and the panel is still here. jen, i want to play one of i think the biggest images from the week which is president- elect trump meeting with president biden. of course this is a tradition that then president trump did not extend to the incoming president biden four years ago. how do you see democrats charting their path forward at this moment? and i should mention both leaders said we want to have a smooth transition. >> that's correct but i also think nobody here and anywhere should focus on one visual moment as the indication of all the things happening behind the scenes. obviously not doing that. i think democrats are in the wilderness. there's no clear leader and joe biden is going to be out of office shortly.

kamala harris just lost the election. there are a lot of governors and other people who might emerge, maybe we don't know about yet. but there's no clear leader of the party right now. that to me, is an opportunity. because people have to decide -- nobody is given it right? are you going to be the person who is the right person to stand up against trump or the person who brings the country together or are you going to be the person who talks about the economy in -- in ways that people understand? there are lots of ways to do it. i don't know who's going to emerge. but that's the moment we're in right now. >> eugene, i think that's one of the most fascinating aspects of this moment. there's no clear leader of this party. and yet, minority leader hakeem jeffries one of the leadership voices, what do you make of what you heard from him in the context of the path forward? does it seem like they know exactly what it's going to look like? >> no. they don't. they seem of the no idea. so many different con stiff whensis both here on the

capitol hill and elsewhere but i think the most interesting dynamic that's going to play out here is kind of the young guard versus the old guard. right? i have been hearing from a lot of 30s, 40s, even 50. that's young around here. in d.c. that they are going to -- put up a huge fight with the older folks because think think you cannot bring us to -- where we are right now. and take us out of it. >> this this moment just say for generational change is now. there are people in leadership positions who are not of the young guard. democrats control nothing. so people out there want to change, now is the moment to change it. >> that's part of the tension with nancy pelosi by the way. >> i think one of the challenges democrats are going to have is it going to be oppositional agenda or forward looking agenda? have to emphasize one of the other and really emphasize the agenda that's forward looking and this is one way -- might agree with elizabeth warren and bernie sanders. >> we never thought you'd say that. [ laughter ] >> we can make news today.

but look, i think there's a idea that there has to be an articulation of what are you actually going to do for working americans? and i think that got lost a little bit in the 2024 campaign. >> one person, lots of people are going to present different agendas, that's the moment that everybody is in and also speaker pelosi did step back. she still in congress and no longer the speaker and i don't think that's the same example as kind of move moving people out of leadership roles who have now aged out of the roles. >> tension though between how they move forward. this is going to define democrats' way forward. look, there's the unknowable asks still wrestling with. what would have happened if biden had dropped off earlier? all the things still very much part of the conversation. but even in the house you have folks like jeffries obviously saying we're going to work with the president where we can. you have folks labia yea pal saying we're not going to help republicans. >> every time they want to be the adults in the room right? show the american people we know how to govern but the

american people want to often want to see people fighting and right and more importantly, they want to see someone who is going to -- they need an example right? if democrats believe that donald trump and republicans can't govern this country, why assist them in doing that and making it look like they can? that's something that democrats have to figure out. >> jen, that toal issue being the adults in the room. i have heard some democrats privately say that came off as condescending and that's part of what needs to be addressed as well in terms of the message to voters. >> yes, i mean, look -- finding ways to work together on policies where there's agreement. actually the public does want that right but also finding places to make your fights and being bold is also important. i know you are going to say you can't do both. you absolutely can. [ laughter ] you absolutely can do both. i think toally though. there are lessons learned from the election without naval gazing forever. there was -- it was not just people going to trump.

it was the democrats losing working people if they're the party of working people they need to figure out how to better talk to that group of people. >> all right, fantastic conversation guys and thank you so much. that's all for today. thank you for watching. we'll be back next week. because if it's sunday, it is "meet the press."

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