♪♪ ♪ this sunday, fbi job. president-elect donald trump says he plans to replace fbi director christopher wray with kash patel, a top loyalist who

has vowed to shut down the bureau's headquarters. >> i would shut the fbi hoover building on day one and re-opening it the next day as a museum of the deep state. >> can he be confirmed by the senate? plus, trade war. president-elect trump threatens steep tariffs on america's biggest trading partners. >> i hope he rethinks it. it's a counterproductive thing to do. >> it is not just affecting canadians, and he's raising price% americans, as well. >> how high can prices rise or is it just a negotiating tactic? i'll talk to bill hagerty of sen tee and democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. plus turning point? syria's second largest city falls into rebel control just days after hezbollah agreed to a ceasefire with israel. what does it mean for the war in gaza? i'll speak with national security adviser jake sullivan,

and separated. >> growing, growing, growing with the number of kids. >> harm to children is part of the plan. they believe it would terrify families into not coming. >> oscar winning filmmaker and jacob soboroff are here to talk about their new film examining the trump administration's family separation policy. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc's senior national politics reporter jonathan allen, kimberly atkins stohr, senior opinion writer for the boston globe, republican strategist matt gorman and sahel kapur, welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press". >> from nbc news in washington, the longest running show in tevision history. this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. president-elect trump proving once again he plans to shake up washington in his second term announcing plans to nominate

kash patel as his next fbi director. patel is a hard line critic of the bureau who has called for shutting down the agency's washington headquarters, firing its leaders and bringing the nation's law enforcement agencies, quote, to heel. >> do you believe you can deliver the goods on this in a couple of months so we can get rolling on prosecutions? >> yes. we've got the bench for it, and the one thing we learned in the trump administration the first go around, is we have to put an all america patriots top to bottom. >> the move to pick patel means trump's own hand-picked fbi director christopher wray would need to be fired or resign since his ten-year term doesn't end until 2027. the president-elect is threatening harsh tariffs against the top three trading partners, canada, mexico and china. a president-elect trump looks for leverage to deal with issues of drugs and the border. >> it's one of the most

beautiful words in the whole world. it's going to make us wealthy again. >> the most beautiful word in the entire dictionary of words is the word tariff. i love tariffs. i can make anybody do anything through the use of tariffs. >> canadian prime minister justin trudeau wasted no time traveling to mar-a-lago for a din or friday with the president president-elect to discuss the matter of mr. trump's resort. it comes after trudeau warned tariffs would hurt consumers in both countries. >> donald trump, when he makes statements like that, he plans to carrying them out. he would be actually not just harming canadians who -- who work so well with the united states, he'd actually be raising prices for american citizens, as well and hurting american industry and businesses. >> already u.s. ceos are warning

if president-elect trump does impose new tariffs they will be passed on to consumers with higher prices. best buy's ceo says the vast majority will probably be passed on to the consumer. home depot's ceo warning there will certainly be an impact and walmart's finance saying tariffs are going to be inflationary. president biden weighs in. >> i hope he re-thinks it. it's a counterproductive thing to do. two allies, mexico and canada and the last thing we need to do is begin to screw up those relationships. >> on tuesday president biden announced a ceasefire deal in lebanon between hezbollah and lebanon. mr. biden saying he will renew his push for a ceasefire and hostage deal in gaza. >> just as the lebanese people deserve a future of security and prosperity so do the people of gaza.

they, too, deserve an end to the fighting and displacement, and so how hamas has a choice to make. their only way out is to releae the hostages including american citizens which they hold. >> on saturday, hamas released a video showing american alexander who was taken captive on october 7th. >> this video is like he's screaming to everyone look at me. i'm alive. i am surviving for 421 days. please bring me home. i want to come back to my family. joining me now is national security adviser jake sullivan. jake, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me. >> thank you so much for being here. i want to start with hamas releasing that video of american hostage edan alexander who has been head by hamas now for more

than 400 days, jake. is the united states any closer to bringing the hostages home or striking a ceasefire deal between israel and hamas? >> well, kristen, that video was a cruel reminder of hamas' brutality and of the fact that they are holding so many hostages from so many countries including american citizens, including americans like edan, and we are doing everything we can to get those hostages home safely to their families. we were in touch with edan's family yesterday. i'll be speaking with all of the american hostage families this week. president biden pledged coming off of the announcement of the lebanon ceasefire that we would be working round the clock to produce a ceasefire and hostage deal in gaza. we are working to do that. i can't make you any predictions about the shape of that deal or when it will come, but i can tell you that we are working actively to try to make it happen. we are engaged deeply with the key players in the region and

there is activity even today that will be further conversations and consultations and our hope is that we can generate a ceasefire and hostage deal, but we're not there yet. >> >> well, jake, let's talk about the ceasefire agreement between hezbollah and lebanon. both sides have been accusing each other of violating the terms of the agreement. the last time the army was tanked with enforcing a ceasefire in 2006 it failed. jake, why are you confident that it can succeed this time? >> well, first, this is a huge step forward in the middle east. a ceasefire across the border between lebanon, and the opportunity for people to ultimately be able to rush to their homes in israel and in lebanon. so this is a good thing and we need to protect it and ensure that it is fully implemented and what makes this time different

is the united states, france and other allies are going to work together with the lebanese armed forces through a mechanism to ensure that the ceasefire's impremented effectively. that's not going to involve u.s. forces deployed on the ground in southern lebanon and it does mean we will put our full backing behind this and also as the agreement itself states, kristen, both parties including israel have the right, consistent with international law to take action and self-defense if they're facing imminent threats. we have seen some of that. our goal is to get through these first few days and the critical days of the ceasefire when it is most fragile and have it take hold and build on it so it becomes the permanent ceasefire it's intended to be. >> let me ask you something that the incoming national security adviser mike walz had to say. he credited president-elect trump with this ceasefire jake saying, quote, everyone is coming to the table because of president trump. jake, how do you respond to that?

>> well, first, i would just say that we've had good consultations with the incoming team. we've been transparent with them. we are committed with ensuring a smooth transition and second, i'm glad to see the incoming team is welcoming a ceasefire and i would just say that we've done a great thing. we're proud of the work we've done with bringing the ceasefire about. it came because of the relentless diplomacy because of the current president of the united states joe e biden. >> rebels have seized control of most of the second largest city f aleppo. what is your sense of what's happening on the ground and do you think that bashar al arc sad could fall? >> well, keep in mind that for many years the syrian government has been engaged in a civil war backed by three many players, iran, russia and res bola. all three of those playershave been distracted and weakened by conflicts elsewhere. so it's no surprise that you see

actors in syria including the rrebels trto take advantage of that and that's exactly what they've done over the last several days. now this rebel offensive is led by a group that the united states has designated as a terrorist entity. we have concerns obviously about that group. we are consulting closely with players across the region to determine the best way forward because when we would like to see is the full implementation of u.n. security council resolutions that could bring a measure of peace and stability to syria and protection to civilians including religious minorities. as far as the fate of bashar al assad, people have been predicting that for a long time. i'm not going to make predictions here all i will say is we will stay deeply engaged in the days ahead. >> president-elect trump is announcing that he wants to nominate kash patel for fbi director. fbi plays a major role in counter terrorism operations. what do you make of this puck? >> look, i'm not going to speak

about the president-elect's nominees. the only thing that i can point out, kristen is that we being the biden administration, adhere to the longstanding norm that fbi directors serve out their full terms because the fbi director is a unique player in the american government system. they're appointed for ten-year terms and not terms for the duration of the given president. the current fbi director chris wray was actually appointed by donald trump. joe biden fired him. he relied upon him to execute his responsibilities as the director of the fbi and allowed him to serve out the fullness of his term over the course of the biden administration. so that's how we approach things and we would like to ensure that the fbi remains an independent institution insulated from politics. >> all right. national security adviser jake sullivan, thank you so much for joining us this morning. we really appreciate it. >> thank you. joining me now is republican senator bill hagerty of

tennessee. senator hagerty, welcome to "meet the press". >> good morning. good to be with you. >> it is very good to have you. let's start right there. i want to get your reaction. president-elect trump essentially making this move that would lead to the firing of his own hand picked fbi director whose term doesn't come to an end until 2027 replacing him with kash patel who served multiple different roles in the first trump administration. how will you vote on his nomination and do you think he has enough votes to pass? >> i've encouraged president trump to bring kash patel for precisely this reason. jake, i understand his resistance to talk about kash, but i'm more than happy to talk about him. he represents the change that we need in the fbi. you talk about the failures of background checks. how can we have somebody like colin cowell who tweeted

information. kamala harris broke the tie for this person who shouldn't have the security clearance at dod. rob mally, i don't know how he cleared an fbi check. he is now under investigation and his ties to the iranian iranianregime, this entire agency needs to be cleaned out. it's not doing its job and if you look at what happened, the mritization politicization in 2016 who conspired to keep president trum out of office and when they put together this russiagate investigation that hindered the trump administration for the first several years and look at 2020 and look at what happened there with the fake hunter biden story that the fbi leadership worked together with big tech to censor the hunter biden laptop that allowed president biden to basically fool the american public when he came into office.

there are serious problems at the fbi. the american public knows it and kash patel is the person to do it. >> i hear you say you are a yes. >> yes. >> a lot of folks have raised questions whether patel is qualified, president-elect trump floated the idea as patel as deputy fbi director. his attorney general at the time bill barr rejected the idea. later writing this in his memoir, quote, patel had virtually no experience that would allow him to serve at the highest level of the preeminent law enforcement agency. how serious do you take barr's warning? warning? >> i think you should have the biden administration look at itself. tony blinken put together a fake letter saying that the hunter biden laptop was russian disinformation. that must have qualified him to be secretary of state. president trump is entitled to

name his appointees and that is exactly what he's doing and i will support it. kash has worked at national security. he's worked in the department of justice and he's someone who has been willing to uncover the wrongs at the fbi, he uncovered for the american public what happened in russia gate. >> senator, you are disregarding what bill barr, the former attorney general under donald trump is saying. his warnings that he just doesn't have the experience. >> i'm saying there are people that are serving in the current administration that are woefully inexperienced and i think kash does have experience when it comes to the mandate, turning these agencies around that have become completely corrupted. kash has pointed out he's probable the best at uncovering what happened at the fbi and i look forward to seeing him taking it apart. >> let's talk about one of the other big headlines this week. tariffs. president-elect trump announcing he would impose 25% tariffs against mexico and canada. more tariffs against china the united states and three biggest

trading partners. major companies from best buy to home depot and walmart all warning that tariffs could lead to higher prices. senator, i wonder, are you comfortable with these tariffs even if it does, in fact, lead to higher prices? >> kristen, i think one of the most important things we have as a nation is our economy. that's the most important, most incredible source of competitive advantage that the united states has. access to our economy is a privilege. if you think about it, we made access ever since world war ii. you think about what happened in japan and countries in europe when those economies were decimated the united states put together very favorable trade to trade with us rather than trading with communist countries. we have used these tools effectively decade after decade after decade. right now the united states has the most open market of any major economy in the world. we have to look at countries

that aloud our borders and use that as a tool. >> are you concerned this could lead to a trade war, senator? >> what it needs to lead to sia correction of the behavior that's taking place right now that's letting fentanyl flood into our border and millions of people, undocumented, illil people breaking into our country. it needs to stop. president trump will use every leverage at his disposal to use it and it's a prop atto ppropri those tools. >> we just heard about what is unfolding in aleppo and the question is could bashar al assad fall at this moment. do you see this as a turning point? >> i think what we've seen is a major turning point particularly with respect to israel's moves against hezbollah. israel took these moves against the warning of the biden administration. they do not want them to deal with the aggressive steps and

hezbollah is being decimated and in the aftermath of that you've seen hezbollah's inability to continue to shore up assad that's led to this change, that now as i understand it, aleppo has now fallen. we may see assad on the map, on the map very, very soon. i think the situation has completely changed and it's changed because of the leadership of israel and their willingness to stand up to hezbollah. >> let me ask it this way. president trump's pick for director of national intelligence tulsi gabbard had secret meetings with bashar al assad in light of the serious developments in syria, senator. do those meetings concern you at all and do you plan to vote to confirm her? >> i am not familiar with the meetings that she's had, and i certainly don't have to agagree with every point of every one of trump's nominees. i think what tulsi represents is a broad attempt that president trump has put in place bringing together democrats and bringing

other people with different voices. what he's doing is reaching out and broadening the party and broadening our reach and he's bringing tulsi into the cabinet for a specific purpose and i look forward to supporting that. >> you're not familiar with those meetings because they were secret meetings. do you have questions about those meetings that you want answered before you vote yes? >> my only understanding about the meetings is it took place some time in the past. >> do they concern you, senator? do they concern you at all? >> i can be concerned about it. i can understand it. i may even disagree with it, but it doesn't mean that i have to vote or for a given candidate, but i plan to support president trump's candidates because the american public need to see change. >> senator hagerty, we appreciate it. >> good to have you. >> great to have you this morning. when we come back, democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut joins me next.

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welcome back. joinig me now is democratic senator chris murphy of connecticut. senator murphy, welcome back to "meet the press". >> great to be here. thank you for being here in person. we really appreciate it. >> sure. >> i want to start off by talking to you and getting your reaction to president-elect's trump's decision to tap kash patel to lead the fbi. you just heard my conversation with senator hagerty. do you know how you plan to vote on patel's nomination? >> i will vote no and i will organize not just my colleagues anand the american public to understand here that president trump told the american public during the campaign that he would turn the department of justice into a political operation, an arm of the white house to destroy his political opponents. he said the greatest threat to america is the enemy within who he said the enemy within were

us, his journalists and his political opponents. kash patel's only qualification is because he agrees with donald trump that the department of justice should serve to punish, lock up and intimidate donald trump's political opponents, and so the cost to the american public is pretty simple. the department of justice and the fbi is supposed to be there to go after drug traffickers, gun smugglers, to go after corrupt wall street financiers. instead, the department of justice is going to serve donald trump's political interests. that's what kash patel has said he thinks the department and the fbi should d dand that's why republicans and democrats should be examining how damaging this nomination could be to american democracy. >> let me zoom out and ask you more broadly about these nominees. last weekend, senator-elect adam schiff told me senator marco rubio was enormously well qualified to serve as secretary and he was strongly inclined

toward a yes vote on his confirm asian. ation. can you see yourself supporting marco rubio? >> i will evaluate each nominee on their own merit. i thought it was extraordinary that senator hagerty basically told you he will not ask a single question about any of these nominees. he will give donald trump carte blanche. that's an abdication of the senate's responsibility. what worries me about this cabinet is it is essentially putting the billionaire class in charge of american government. the net worth of donald trump's nominees is greater than 169 countries. the folks that are being nominated the deputy of -- they don't understand what people are going through. all they see government good for is enriching themselves and their billionaire friends and so that is what the story of this cabinet is. is donald trump and the billionaire class taking over

government to enrich themselves and screw everybody else in this country. >> all right. let me take a little bit of a turn. i want to ask you what happened on thanksgiving. you and the rest of the connecticut delegation, quite frankly, received bomb threats at your home. >> yes. >> fortunately, they were investigated and there were no actual bomb threat. they did echo threats that have been made to some of the picks that president-elect trump has made for his cabinet. on a human level, senator, what was your reaction to learning that and what hlearned about who might be behind these threats? >> well, as you know, there were similar threats made the day before at trump's cabinet nominees that appeared on thanksgiving morning. it was democrats that were targeted. my sense is this is some outside actor just trying to create confusion and distraction inside the american political system and listen, i want a department

of justice. i want an fbi director who is going to go after anybody that tries to threaten the american political system that goes after republicans or democrats. one of the things that i'm concerneded concerned about is that kash patel will only care about protecting republicans and not protect every single member of the population, every single one of us that occasionally gets met with these kind of threats. >> let me turn to tariffs. i want to get your reaction to that big headline. president-elect donald trump threatening to impose tariffs against canada, mexico, china. we should note that president biden has kept some of the trump tariffs in place and built on them and has imposed tariffs. do we know that's good policy? >> donald trump has no idea how to impose tariffs on how to create american jobs and he did impose tariffs and we lost

manufacturing jobs. joe biden knows how to use tariffs in coordination with subsidies and incentives for domestic manufacturing such that while he was president we grew manufacturing jobs. the headline here is that donald trump's entire economic policy is going to be about a massive tax break for the billionaires that were in charge of his cabinets and the tariffs are a distraction for what the real agenda is going to be, to be able to use goverent to dramatically increase the wealth of his cabinet and the friends of that cabinet and it will raise costs on ordinary americans while billionaires get off scot-free. >> economists of all stripes say tariffs, regardless of how they're imposed do ultimately hike up prices for consumers. if they're so bad why didn't president biden roll back the trump-era tariffs? >> president biden did this the right way. he imposed restrictions, for instance, on electric vehicles

coming into the united states and the technology connected to electric vehicles while also giving subsidies to american companies and that's the policy that ends up in hundreds of thousands new manufacturing jobs being created in the united states. donald trump engages in thoughtless, insane policy that ends up in prices going up, but not jobs being create in the united states. you have to use tariffs in the right way and if you use them in the right way it can create ons and donald trump wants to talk about tariffs and he doesn't want you to know about the primary centerpiece of his economic agenda which is a tax cut for millionaires, billionaires and corporations. >> last week, senator, you put out a memo about the 2024 election. you had some strong language talking about what you believe went wrong. you said the party needs to embrace a more populist message. what do you think democrats need to do differently in order to win, in order to be in a fighting position in 2028 and

also the midterms? >> yeah. listen, i think we have to talk about power. who has it and who doesn't have it. i think some of the most important things that joe biden did were taking on the big corporations going after their monopoly power and helping consumers with some of the really egregious fees and gimmicks that those companies use to hurt us. i wish the biden campaign and the harris campaign talked more about what they did to break up corporate power. so i think democrats need to be much more aggressive in making this case, that power has been concentrated and it needs to be returned to regular americans and we need to be able to invite a lot of different americans into the conversation regardless of whether they line up with democrats on every single social and cultural issue. let's build a bigger tent. >> very quickly, nancy pelosi said that president biden stayed in this race too long.

he should have gotten out much sooner. >> in hindsight, he made the decision to stand down. yes, of course, it would have been better for president biden to have made that decision. no question about it. >> okay. senator murphy, thank you very much for being here. >> thank you. >> i really appreciate it. when we come back, president-election trump wants to force out the current fbi director and replace him with a top loyalist. can he be confirmed the p? a♪ ♪ have you always had trouble with your weight? same. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk. wegovy® is the only weight-management medicine proven to reduce risk of major cardiovascular events such as death, heart attack, or stroke in adults with known heart disease and obesity. don't use wegovy® with semaglutide or glp-1 medicines, or in children under 12. don't take if you or your family had mtc,

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news senior national political reporter jonathan allen. nbc senior reporter, senior opinion writer for the boston globe and matt gorman, senior communications adviser for tim scott for america. thank you all for being here. i hope you all had a great thanksgiving holiday. john, let me start with you. let's start with this decision by president-elect trump to tap kash patel to lead the fbi. i heard from the former national security adviser john bolton overnight who said that the senate should vote to oppose him 100-0. bill hagerty made it clear that's not going to happen.

what do you think his chances are of getting confirmed? >> not for the first time john bolton is wrong about his political assessment. we heard chris murphy not vote for kash patel so we know it will not be 100-0. if you're a senator you will weigh this question of whether he's going in there to the fbi with the express intent of going after president trump's political enemies and the reason that matters on the republican side is donald trump doesn't care whether his political enemies are democrats or republicans. if you're a united states senator and you have anything to hide for sure you will be worried about kash patel. maybe if you don't have anything to hide you will be worried about it. could he get through? absolutely. i'm not of the opinion one nominee will get knocked down and others won't. sahel, republican senators did stand up in the face of matt gaetz and basically say this is a bridge too far and there are too many ethical questions

swirling around him. do you think that senators who have concerns about confirming him will stand up to trump a second time? how do you see it play out? >> think it is unclear, kristen, whether he has the votes. they can afford to lose three. that's the number of defections that they can afford in terms of this nomination, but republicans will certainly have questions. the first as jake sullivan pointed out to you, why are you firing chris wray? trump appointed him. he has three years in his term and what's the reason for that? kash patel is on the record for the retribution agenda that donald trump ran on. he's talked about using government power against trump's perceived enemies inside and outside of government. there was tension between trump and the governor ran and he doesn't want to take him too literally. to your point about gaetz. there's an important lesson which is that republicans scuttled scuttled matt gaetz and trump accepted it and he moved on and

is there a lesson there that they can say no sometimes and the sun can still come up in the morning? >> hey, wait a minute. we had the one pick that we could say no to and that's where we draw the line? >> gaetz was the heat shield and now there's strength in numbers. you have several nominees whether it's tulsi, and now kash patel who are splitting the media attention and splitting the scrutiny and you always find a nominee, like betsy devos to target. maybe not all can outrun the lion and the idea that senate republicans will tank a third of the trump cabinets is not going to happen. it's not realistic. >> can i jump in real quick? >> matt gaetz didn't become attorney general because republicans would tank him, and i think there will be an issue with republicans whether you're talking about heat peg talking about pete hegseth or

tulsi gabbard. >> the perceived war against the deep state meaning anybody who he sees as a political enemy. he is someone who has been inside trump world for a lot longer and a lot closer than matt gaetz, and i see no reason to believe that these republicans who failed to stand up against trump at any point in the last ten years will suddenly change their tune to try to block his top guy as much as democrats will point out that him heading the fbi particularly one which in the eyes of the heritage foundation's project 2025 would be under the white house. they would take it from under doj control and make it donald trump's personal investigatory army. i think that not only will he win confirmation, but that is one of the most dangerous appointments that donald trump can make. >> let's talk about one of the other big headlines this week, matt. of course, tariffs. the fact that president-elect trump has used this threat against canada, mexico and

china, the u.s.' three biggest trading partners. do you think this is a bluff? >> i think this is the setting of a negotiation where he feels comfortable on the policies. rightly so, he should feel empowered and he feels at home at a negotiating table so he wants to get people in a room and get them face to face and work on a deal that was telling to me was how trudeau and claudia sheinbaum approached it. schumer went to mar-a-lago and sheinbaum had a chest beating letter that will not help her get a deal and house democrats would am plify it. >> and he kept the trump-era tariffs in place. >> donald trump is trying to announce his presence with authority here and make foreign leaders look at him and make the dommesti dommestic audience look at him and all the better for him. i think matt's right about the

strategy here, and he's going to get some concessions before he has to put tariffs in place. he doesn't want to have to put tariffs in place, he doesn't want to put tariffs in place because prices will go up and he'll have to combat inflation. >> what are some of the piece of president biden's legacy that could be most at risk in the second trump administration? >> absolutely. i would rank this from least safe to most safe of president biden's legacy. the executive actions and all of the things that president biden did with the stroke of a pen, donald trump can undo. immigration, lgbt rights and student loan programs and abortion bans, trump can undo them. the second thing that are in danger is the democrats-only, the inflation reduction act, clean energy funding and we have a new piece of republicans coming after those to pay for

the trump tax cut. the pieces offed by know's legacy that are quite safe are the bipartisan laws he passed, chips and science and codifying same-sex marriage and democrats can protect them and finally the safest part of biden's legacy, justices. ketanji brown jackson and feddal and district court judges are here to stay. >> all we have to see is reverse that where donald trump can make his most biggest impact in the judiciary for him particularly at the u.s. supreme court with any -- trump can only force that even further to the right giving it an even greater super majority during his presidency as well as throughout the federal judiciary and we've seep from consequence from all of the challenges to by then's programming. what the trump-appointed judges and what power they can wield.

we will see only more of that during his administration. >> i am glad you bring up the judges because that's very much in focus. great conversation. we tappeded a lot in. thank you for being here. >> when we come back, as president biden makes a final push for a ceasefire in gaza, we look back 30 years to a historic meast id

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welcome back. while efforts to broker peace in the middle east are in the spotlight once again, they have long been a focus for the weiss. back white house. in 1993 before signing, yitzhak rabin joined meet the press. >> i want to say that once the jewish people have decided to have the jewish state here in the land of israel we decided who will be our neighbors at the same time, the hundred of millions of arabs and muslims, and our only ways to live here

as a jewish state either in peace or in continuation of wars, violence and terror. most of my life i served as a military man, as a minister of defense, as a prime minister, i would like to bring about a change. i would like to give it a chance. i believe that the risks involved to israel in this agreement is the minimum. >> when we come back, thousands of children were separated from their parents as part of the first trump administration's first trump administration's immigration ♪♪ [children playing] easy guys. easy. hey guys, come on, time to eat. time to eat. ♪♪ i don't want this. i want corndogs! [children chanting] corndogs! corndogs! cornrndogs!

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welcome back. president-elect donald trump has promised to launch a mass deportation program on his first day in office. a new film "separated" from oscar winning filmmaker errol mores based on the book "separated" by jacob soboroff examines family separation and immigration policies and the ongoing years' long fight to reunite children. >> the unaccompanied children

program which i worked in was essentially hijacked for a purpose for which it was never intended nor authorized in law. it was a program designed to be a child protection program who entered the united states without parents and it was instead used as a tool to take children from their parents. >> jacob soboroff and errol morris join me now. welcome to "meet the press." >> thanks, kristen. >> thanks for having me. >> thank you both for being here. errol, i want to start with you. you are an oscar award-winning filmmaker. why did you want to take on this project? >> it's a very important issue and perhaps at the essence of our current politics. it involves immigration, the treatment of immigrants both outside our country and within. i couldn't think of a more important issue to make a movie

about. >> jacob, you have done so much reporting about this issue, what made you want to take that reporting and turn it into a book and now this documentary? >> i think, kristen, when we all cover this together at the time in the summer of 2018 what a republican-appointed judge called one of the most shameful chapters in the history of the country what physicians for for human rights said and the academy of pediatrics called sanctioned child abuse. none of us could understand how the government could do something so cruel. cruelty is a point for the atlantic, and so i still have questions and i wrote the book. the legend, errol morris, my favorite filmmaker, one of the greatest filmmakers of all time said he shared some of those questions and here we are, we didn't know president trump

would run for reelection again and much less become the president of the united states and now we are on the verge of another separation policy, mass deportation, which is just family separation by another name. >> errol, pick up that point because then president trump did end the family separation policy that he started, but officials not ruling it t out potentiallyn this second term besides the fact that the judge has ruled against it. how do you see this playing out over the next four years? >> my movie ends with a warning, that there is nothing to prevent this from happening again despite the horrors that we are aware of from the first go round, yes. the people who instituted these policies are now firmly in place in the new administration and yes, in one form or another it could happen again. >> jacob, one of the statistics that you report on that i think

would surprise a lot of people, there are still more than a thousand children that haven't been reunited with their families. can you update us? what are the latest on the efforts to try to get those kids reunited? >> kristen, the number today is between 1300 and 1400 children without confirm reunifications and that's according to the department of homeland security and that is because the policy was, and i think this is a generous description, so haphazardly implemented. i will never forget when you asked former president trump and president biden during the last presidential debate in 2020 about 545 children who were still separated from their parents and that number has only grown since then as we have discovered sort of the extent that this policy -- tore family apart from one another deliberately, and i think that not only are we looking back at this policy and the ramifications of it. it will be a lifelong trauma for all of them and also what it

means going forward. it's also a road map in essence for what the incoming trump administration has promised. >> errol, what based on the work of this film, what did you perceive the impact to be on these kids? >> i hope it was not just an impact on these kids, but on the country as a whole. beating up on immigrants, policies of cruelty are a moral thing, not a political thing. what we did to these children to me is morally unacceptable, and fortunately, it was unacceptable to a lot of people. >> jacob -- >> we've heard a lot about the deep state, the horrors of the deep state, but many of the heroes of this story were people who were non-political appointees, who worked in the government and who fought very hard to protect children and

that is really part of the story. >> jacob, you have spent so much time studying this topic, but i wonder if in working on this film what surprised you? what did you learn that was new that you weren't expecting to uncover? >> kristen, i hope when everybody watches it and i'm excited that everyone will have the opportunity to watch it this coming weekend on msnbc, i thought back to that time in a way that i hadn't remembered. errol just mentioned it that this was one of the rare approximately policy reversals and maybe the first major one during the trump administration because of career officials like jonathan white, from the office of refugee resettlement and because these folks stood up and pushed back on something that wasn't a bipartisan condemnation, the pope spoke out, if you'll remember, about this policy and it forced the government to make

corrective action on something so many people thought was morally unacceptable and it's a good reminder for us today as -- by the wa, this is a policy that was possible only because of decades of bipartisan deterrence-based immigration policy and this is not just a story about donald trump. this is a story about the u.s. government and the immigration system within it and people who stood up and were able to make a change and a great reminder. >> errol, if you would follow up on that, the immigration system has been broken for so long. did you get to the root of why it is so intractable for this country to resolve is issue? >> people would rather argue about it politically rather than try to solve the problem which is a sad story of many significant issues facing the country. the way to solve immigration is not to beat up on children.

perhaps that should be obvious, but we should remember that we are a country of immigrants. i wouldn't be here if my family hadn't emigrated from eastern europe in the '20s. we are all, in many ways, immigrants and how we treat those people who are trying to enter our country for a better life really reflects on us. i'm not saying there should not be borders or there shouldn't be immigration laws, but there should ñ÷also be morality and kindness involved. >> all right. jacob and errol, thank you so much for this conversation. we really do appreciate it, and you can watch "separated" next saturday night at 9:00 p.m. eastern on msnbc. and before we go, the newest member of the "meet the press" family, frankie alice katz was born at 12:23 a.m. on wednesday. she didn't want to miss her

first thanksgiving as her mom told us, we want to say a huge heartfelt congratulations to both of her parents coordinating producer sale bronzeton katz and frankie was named after their grandmothers. welcome to the world, frankie, you are the best breaking news ever. that is it for today. thank you very much for watching. we'll be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

breaking overnight. president biden pardons his son hunter after repeatedly