♪ ♪ ♪ >> this sunday, "meet the moment." conversations with people who are having an impact in washington and beyond. >> there are times where i feel like i'm all alone. >> still? >> still, yeah. >> olympic swimmer michael phelps opens up about his struggles with anxiety and depression. >> being able to talk about mental health, which is something that, you know, personally i struggle with almost every single day, and, you know, depression and anxiety aren't just going to disappear.

>> civil rights icon ruby bridges reflects on how she made history. >> i mean, i was thrust into the middle of a situation that no six-year-old should be put in. >> and game changers. >> i feel like we just came to the end of all the excuses of why nobody likes women's sports, and it turns out everybody watches women's sports. >> sports icons sue bird and megan rapinoe on how women's sports are breaking records. >> don't you want to look like a genius? like, this is how you can look like -- invest now. get on board now. help this grow now. >> plus, fight for justice. >> i didn't know if he was innocent. i didn't know if he was guilty. >> journalist dan slepian and j.j. velazquez share the 20-year journey that changed both of their lives. >> i am not an anomaly. there are hundreds of thousands of wrongfully convicted people on this earth, and they are suffering. >> and keeping the faith -- nbc's savannah guthrie

shares her journey to get closer to god. >> i'm just a regular human who has walked in faith and out of faith over years and years, and these are some of the things that i've learned. and i didn't learn them because everything went well. i learned them mostly when things went wrong. >> welcome to sunday and a special edition of "meet the press." ♪ ♪ >> from nbc news in washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is a special edition of "meet the press," with kristen welker. >> good sunday morning. for more than 77 years, "meet the press" has had a history of shining a light on people who influence our politics from outside of washington, from jackie robinson to robert frost, jane fonda to billy graham, carl sagan and gloria steinem. this morning, we take a look back on our special series, "meet the moment," and the conversations we've had this year with the voices outside of our politics, shaping conversations

that matter. swimmer michael phelps, the most decorated olympian of all time, joined "meet the press" for a candid conversation abt his battle with anxiety and depression and his advocacy for other athletes. ruby bridges, who at just six years old, became a civil rights icon simply for attending her school, which was newly desegregated in 1960, spoke with us about the unfolding debate on book banning and whose stories can be told. j.j. valazquez, who was exonerated after spending 24 years in prison, wrongfully convicted for a murder he did not commit, joined veteran "dateline" producer dan slepian for a conversation about their more than two-decade fight to free velazquez. olympic gold medalist megan rapinoe and sue bird marked what may be the biggest year on record for women's sports in america. and "today show" co-anchor savannah guthrie sat down for a very special conversation about her relationship to her faith. but we begin with michael phelps. with 23 gold medals,

hehe is undotedly one of the greatest competitors alive. but that doesn't mean he doesn't have his struggles. in retirement, he's been using his voice to speak out about facing depression and anxiety and advocating for more mental health resources for athletes. i sat down with phelps near his home in arizona for a "meet the moment" conversation about how he's doing in his own mental health journey and what more needs to be done in the olympic community. you have dedicated so much time to advocating for, to speaking out about mental health, your mental health, the importance of getting help if you are struggling. before we dive into your advocacy, how are you doing right now, michael? >> i'm good. i mean, obviously, i have my days like everyone does, right? we go through ups and downs, and that's just life. i feel like i have more tools now to prepare me through the bumps or the roller coasters, like i call them, that i go through in my life. and, yeah, i'm enjoying it. right? like, you know, being retired again

and being able to talk about mental health, which is something that, you know, personally i struggle with almost every single day. and, you know, depression and anxiety aren't just going to disappear, right? these are things that i have to adapt, and i have adapted throughout my life, and they are a part of my life. they're always going to be a part of my life. so it's finding the best way every single day to be the best version of me. >> you just said something really powerful, which is that you still struggle with depression and anxiety every day. >> yeah, i mean, there are times. i mean, there are, you know, 10-day spells where every day is a struggle. but for me, it's what can i control in that moment. throughout my career, i looked at myself as a swimmer and an athlete. now i can look in a mirror and see a person, somebody that has feelings and emotions. >> i do think it's striking to hear you say you saw yourself as a swimmer, as an olympian, not necessarily as a person. when did you first realize you were really struggling with depression? >> i would say probably 2004.

2004 was my first taste of post-olympic depression. you know, coming off such a high, it's basically, you get to the edge of the cliff and you're like, "cool, now what?" i guess i've got to wait four more years to have the chance to do it again. right? and for those who don't have a successful olympics, those four years can feel like an absolute eternity. so for me, 2004 was my first. 2008 was my second taste of post-olympic depression. because coming off of that high, after doing something you set out to do your whole entire life -- my goal was to do something no one else had ever done before. >> did you know it was depression, or did you just think, "i'm feeling a little off"? >> i think at that point, i'll say as a male athlete, i could tell something was off. but i think i saw it as a sign of weakness, and if i shared anything about it, then it would give my competitors an edge. and i'm not trying to do that. right? i don't want to give my competitors an edge. i'm trying to be better than anybody, period, has ever been.

so for me, i looked at it as weakness. so for me, i had to learn that vulnerability is a good thing. and it was scary at first, but i learned that vulnerability just means change. and for me, it was a great change. >> but i do want to go back to that moment in 2014 when you got a dui. you've spoken about this quite extensively. you say you were effectively locked in a room for four days. >> yeah, three or four days. >> you had suicidal thoughts. your family did rally around you. how did you find the strength to get help in that moment? >> yeah. i mean, i think in that moment, for me, there's a lot of shame. and i just didn't want to -- really, like, i had the thought of, like, it was me that was putting my family through all of this stress and all of this. and i was just like, "okay, maybe it's better if i just leave." and at the time, i was prescribed ambien from our doctors on our team trips. i was happy i only had three pills left.

i took them all that night, and i woke up the next morning, and i didn't eat anything or drink anything for, like, two or three days. and after those two or three days, i didn't really want to talk to anybody. i didn't want to see anybody. it was kind of just to the point where i knew i needed help. right? like, the thoughts that i was having were too much, and they were overwhelming, and they were scary. so for me, at that point, i just checked myself into a treatment center. >> for 45 5 days? >> 45 days. >> what happened in those 45 days that made you stronger? >> yeah. i basically got ripped apart. and i say that in, like, imagine, like, a motherboard of a computer. you just take everything apart. you just kind of rebuild and talk about whether it's, you know, my childhood, things that i'm having difficulty times with, good things, and kind of just piecing it all back together. >> but you emerged stronger not just emotionally but as a competitor as well. >> yeah, yeah. look, like, i'm lucky to be here. i'm lucky to have everything i have. so i'm going to go down swinging no matter what.

like, i just had a conversation with -- well, i might get choked up here. i justad a conversation with a buddy of mine the other day. >> take your time. it's okay. >> so for me, this is all fresh. so a friend of mine, he's my mental health buddy, and he knows who i'm talking about. i'll just say it. okay, so jay glazer and i, we're mental health buddies. we both struggle, and when we're both having our bad days, we go through similar ups and downs, and we do similar things when we're down, if that makes sense. and we both had this conversation the other day because when it happens, for me, i reach out to him. when it happens for him, he reaches out to me.

and i have a couple friendships like that where we've kind of really been able to form a bond. and to what we were saying before is i literally sent a text to him, and i was like, "i'm never [bleep] quitting, ever in my life." like, that's not who i am. >> when you say, i'm not a quitter, you mean you're not quitting...? >> anything. i won't quit anything. i will never give up anything that -- you know, there are so many goals of mine that i have and want to accomplish, and no matter how hard it gets, i'm never giving up. there's a reason why i was able to win 23 olympic gold medals, right? so i'm determined. i'm stubborn. i'm -- yeah, you could -- a laundry list of things. i just don't give up. >> what is your advice, michael, to someone who is watching this, who's struggling, who feels alone, who doesn't feel like they have the strength or community to help them? >> i would say, one, reach out to a loved one that you can trust.

you know, and i would say also, one, reach out to somebody you can trust. two, i would say you're not alone. like, without question. you know, there are times, even though i have a rolodex of people i can reach out to, there are times where i feel like i'm all alone. >> still? >> still, yeah. i mean, it's those days, but i still know that, i'm like, "all right, pick up the phone. who can i call?" like, just go through and make a phone call. >> the u.s. olympic committee has said that it has made advances, particularly in the wake of your speaking out, other athletes speaking out. how do you assess the changes that the u.s. olympic committee has made? has the committee gone far enough? what do you want to see happen that hasn't happened? >> there needs to be more. flat out. the abc organizations have done some steps in the right direction to get help and care

that us as athletes need, but they're not doing everything they can, and that upsets me. >> what do you want to see them do specifically? >> i want to see them put the athletes first. that's it. nothing else to say. >> and that means providing better mental health care? >> it's everything. the athletes need to be first. >> and you didn't feel that way when you were an olympian? >> i walked into training rooms at the usoc and couldn't get care. this is six months before the 2008 olympic games. >> you were denied care? >> i was denied anything. i couldn't get access. no physical trainer would help me. so if that's happening with me, it's happening with others too. so if we're supposed to be these athletes that are representing

our country, then put the athletes first. >> if one of the representatives of the olympic committee were sitting here instead of me, what would you say to them? >> nothing that can be recorded. there's just a lot of emotions there. there's so much passion for me, and i want what's right, period. that's all. and i won't stop until everything is done that i think needs to be done. >> at just six years old, ruby bridges became a civil rights icon simply for attending her school, which was newly desegregated in 1960. bridges and her mother had to be escorted by federal marshals under the loud jeers of segregationists who protested her pursuit of a basic education. over the past 25 years, bridges has been visiting schools around the country

and replying to the letters of students who have sought her advice. some of that correspondence is collected in a book, "dear ruby, hear our hearts." i sat down with ruby bridges for a "meet the moment" conversation. she describes the painful experience she had d as a lite girl, at one point using a racial slur, words she heard at the time, as she speaks in deeply personal terms. i want to start off by talking about this beautiful book this beautiful book that you have written in which you answer the letters that children have written to you. what do you hope people will take from your book? >> you know, it took me back to being six years old and thinking about what i was going through. and i think we as adults, we underestimate the minds of our little ones, because i know that i was having these really grown-up adult thoughts. i mean, i was thrust into the middle of a situation

that no six-year-old should be put in. and i was really thinking about all those things. and so when i started to read some of these letters, i thought, "wow, things really haven't changed all that much." we are still underestimating our kids. they are still concerned about grown-up issues. and i heard their hearts. >> take me back to what that was like for you whenou were six years old. you were being escorted by u.s. marshals into a school that was newly desegregated. you had to sit in a classroom all by yourself. what was that walk to school like for you? >> you know, my parents never explained to me what i was about to venture into. the only thing they said is, "ruby, you're going to go to a new school today and you better behave." and living in neorleans and being accustomed to mardi gras, i mean, you know, we see that during mardi gras -- huge crowds screaming and yelling.

so i often say what protected me was the innocence of a child. i thought, that day, i was venturing into a mardi gras parade. so i wasn't afraid. it took a while before i really found out that the crowds were out there for me. and that happened when i finally had an opportunity to meet another child. >> tell me about that. >> well, kids were being hidden from me. there were some white parents who tried to send their kids to school with me, but they were never protected by federal marshals like i was. so they had to cross that picket line, and they were being attacked. so even if they were not racist, it would probably be very hard for them to send their child. but they did, a few of them. and the principal was part of the opposition, so she would take them and hide them. so they would never see e me

and i wouldn't see them. but once i got into the classroom and met these other kids, a little boy said, "i can't play with you. my mom said not to because you're a nigger." and the minute he said that, everything sort of came into focus for me, that it wasn't mardi gras, that the crowd out there was out there because of me and the color of my skin. >> after you realized what these crowds were saying to you, how did you feel going to school every day, walking past them? what was that like for you? >> i would not really focus on them. i would block them out. and mainly because i loved school. i never missed a day. and that was because of my teacher. i had an amazing teacher who came from boston to teach me. she was white. >> barbara henry. >> barbara hen. i mean, there were days

when if you opened the window, because we didn't have air conditioning, you could hear them screaming and shouting and chanting. and she would go to the window and close the window and say, "oh, today we're going to have music." you know, itas little things that she did that made me love school. i knew that if i just got past the crowd that it was a short walk and into the building, i was going to have a great day. >> what goes through yr mind when you hear these debates unfold all in schools across the country about what should be taught, what should be read, what shouldn't be, access to books? what do you think about? >> well, i think that's ridiculous. i mean, most of my books have been banned. and the excuse that i've heard them give is that my story actually makes especially white kids feel bad about themselves.

but i believe that it's just an excuse not to share the truth, to cover up history. but i believe that history is sacred, that none of us should have the right to change or alter history in any way. >> are you afraid that not just your history but the history of civil rights is being threatened in this country? >> yes. yes. those things are what we live with today. the history, all the subject matter that they want to ban, it's happening in the world. we cannot live in a bubble, put blinders on like it's not happening. we think that we are actually fooling our kids by banning books, oh, my god. where are we, really? because kids have computers, they have so much information at their fingertips. i have to go to my grandbaby to

say, "tell me what's happened, open my phone, do this, whatever," all of us. so we're not hiding anything from our young people. >> if you could talk to the six-year-old ruby bridges, what would you say to her on that first day of school? >> i would just say, "ruby, it's okay, don't worry. it's all going to be fine. it's going to work out." >> when we come back, the fight for justice for the wrongfully convicted. j.j. valazquez spent more than 20 years behind bars for a crime he did not commit. >> i am not an anomaly. there are hundreds and thousands of wrongfully convicted people on this earth, and they are suffering just like i suffered, just like i suffered, and they're not being heard. ♪ limu emu & doug ♪ woah, limu! we're in a parade.

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and now a closer look at our justice system. veteran "dateline" producer dan slepian first met john adrian valazquez, or j.j., in 2002, when he was already serving time for a 1998 murder he did not commit. from his cell in sing sing, j.j. aided slepian in his investigations until he was granted clemency and released in 2021 after more than two decades in prison. "the sing sing files: one journalist, six innocecent men, and a 20-year fight for justice" tells the deeply personal story of their relationship, their fight to overturn wrongful convictions, and to reform the legal system. in september, manhattan district attorney alvin bragg announced that his office would vacate valazquez's murder conviction. i sat down with slepian and velazquez for a "meet the moment" conversation right before that announcement. >> i didn't know if he was innocent. i didn't know if he was guilty. and i said to him what i say

to everybody who says that they're innocent to me. i said to him, "look, i don't know if you're guilty or you're innocent. i am not your friend. i am not your advocate. all i care about is the truth. and if i find evidence of your guilt, it's coming out." >> j.j., what was it like from your perspective when you first met dan and you heard those words? >> initially, you know, it's always painful when you're telling the truth to someone and they're not trying to hear you. right? but it's also expected because of the circumstances that i was under. i'm being accused for taking a police officer's or a former police officer's life, which is one of the most heinous crimes someone can be charged with. and so as a young journalist, which dan was when we first met 22 years ago, you know, i can't expect him to just

not know me from anywhere and not have any credible sources and just expect what i'm saying is the truth. right? so the reality was, in that moment, as he was saying that, the only thing that i could come up with in my mind was, like, how do i get this guy to really believe that i'm not playing with this, that i'm serious, i'm innocent and i need help? and so i challenged him to prove me guilty. and that's what caught him. >> it's not just that you're a singular case. you started covering the wrongful conviction of, again, someone who you were in jail with, david lemus, who was also wrongfully convicted. and you were in disbelief that there could be two people in such close proximity. >> it was a one in a million case. but when i came to my own moral certainty that david lemus was probably innocent, i visited him at the prison he was at on thanksgiving day on the anniversary for the murder for which he was wrongfully convicted.

but i walk into the lobby that day, and i see a woman holding the hands of two little boys, and she stops me and says, "are you dan?" i hate to tell this part of the story, bro. i can -- >> because you could see those two little boys. >> yeah. i wasn't there and i can see them. >> j.j.'s older son was on maria's right side, john jr., and jacob, the littler one, was on her left side. he came up to her waist, you know, and i didn't know who these people were. and maria says, "my son, j.j., he's innocent. can you help us?" and i didn't believe her. but it was the little boy, jacob, who looked up at me

with these eyes, these huge, beautiful saucer eyes. and my daughter -- my wife, wasn't even pregnant yet. i was about to be a father. i mean, i've known j.j. longer than i've known my daughter, who's in college. >> right. >> and i looked at that boy's eyes, and my immediate thought was, "i don't care if his father's innocent or guilty. this little kid should not be in a prison on thanksgiving morning." that was the beginning for me. and what happened from there were letters from j.j. and a relationship that ensued that today, 22 years later, i would put myself in front of a train for him. i would take a bullet for him. >> i know it's emotional. >> he's among the closest people in my life. >> j.j., and i want to talk about your relationship, but i want to talk about

those little boys, because from that moment on, you were behind bars for another 20 years. what was taken from them in that time, and how hard was it for you to be away from them? >> i would say it starts with the fact that what they took from both of us, they took the right to be a father from me, and they took the right to have a faer present from them. our lives were lived in pictures, not in real time. the only real time we had was on visits where you can barely do anything. and for the first 10 years of my children's life, as a father, i'm scarred, because they spent five days in school and one day in prison and only had one day to build their social lives.

and that's just not the life for a child. they deserve better. >> through all of that pain, j.j., you never gave up. >> no. >> you continued to give every piece of evidence you could to dan for his investigations. you continued to ask for retrial after retrial. you were never granted freedom. at that moment, how did you keep going? >> hope, purpose. during the early part of my incarceration, i read this book by viktor frankl and it's called "man's search for meaning." it's a very thin book, but it's so powerful. it was about viktor frankl himself, who was at the concentration camps, and he was studying the people around him. and what he found was that and what he found was that the people who survived the holocaust survived the holocaust survived

because they were tied to a sense of purpose. and so that led me to believe that i had to find the sense of purpose while i was in prison. and it took a while for me to figure it out. but when my mother approached me on a visit one day, she was just like, "i can see you slipping. i see that you're changing. don't let this place change you. you need to grow where you're planted. they can lock up your body, but they can't lock up your mind." >> in 2021, you did learn that governor cuomo granted you clemency. this is not a full pardon. so in the eyes of new york, you are still a convicted criminal. but what was that moment like when the gates opened and you walked outside a free man? >> when that gate opened, my purpose was right in front of me because my family was waiting for me right there. my children, my mother. that was my hope.

that was my purpose. i think that as hard as it is for me to swallow, what i'm about to say, i've realized that as much as i've been through, there was a need for me to go through that, to be in the position that i am right now, to have this conversation with you and to be able to touch the world, because i am not an anomaly. there are hundreds of thousands of wrongfully convicted people on this earth, and they are suffering just like i suffered, and they're not being heard. >> when we come back, with millions of fans and billions of dollars, women's sports are breaking records. our conversation with sports icons sue bird and megan rapinoe is next. >> i feel like we just came to the end of all the excuses of why nobody likes women's sports. and it turns out everybody and it turns out everybody watches women's sports. america needs family caregivers, and they need a tax credit.

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. >> welcome back. 2024 has marked what might be the biggest year on record for women's sports in america. from the wnba finals breaking records for viewership to american women winning more than half of the country's gold medals at the olympics in paris. if american women were their own country, they would have placed third in overall medal count. two trailblazing athletes, megan rapinoe and sue bird, say the talent and the fans have always been there. but now the rest of the country is finally catching up to what they've always known. everyone watches women's sports. i sat down with rapinoe and bird for a "meet the moment" conversation. let's talk about where we are in women's sports.

the women's ncaa basketball tournament had more viewers than men's this year. women made up 50% ofof team us for the first time in olympic history. megan, when you think about those numbers, what does that say about where we are as a country? >> well, you always say this, but everybody's catching up, right? everybody knows now what we've known for a long time. when sue played in the final four, her stadium was sold out. and that was already happening then. the usa women's national team had been winning gold medals for a long time. u.s. women in the olympics have dominated for a very long time. and now you're seeing the investment match the quality and the ability of the players. you're seeing the investment match the appetite that the fans have and the demand from the fans. the demand from the fans has been there the whole time. things haven't been available, whether that's on streaming

or whether that's on tv or whatever it may be. and i think this moment is like, i feel like we just came to the end of all the excuses of why nobody likes women's sports. and it turns out everybody watches women's sports. everybody likes it. everybody's into it. turns out, oh, we're really good at sports. we're really entertaining. we're actually really amazing off the court. we care about our teammates. we care about our community. we care about politics. we care about making the world a better place. and it's an incredibly desirable product for people to watch, for players to play in, for sponsors to sponsor, for people to put on tv. so it's like we always just feel like we've been knowing this is ready. and i feel like everyone else is now ready for that. >> and i think about other stars like caitlin clark, angel reese, these women who are now, like the two of you, in the spotlight, and superstars, and just at the top of their game. i wonder what you would say

to them, what you have said to them about how to both be focused on your sport and your craft, but also manage all of that pressure, which is a lot. >> yeah, it's really fun, rewarding, and also interesting to watch these younger athletes step into their professional careers. obviously, caitlin and angel are two great examples. what i see immediately, and i think some of this has to do with nil in college, right? like so much earlier, these athletes are thinking about themselves as businesses, as brands. and it's amazing because they're carrying that with them to the wnba. and so everything's just bigger. they just seem so much more self-aware in that way, in a business sense than i ever was at that age, i would say that you ever were, because that just wasn't our world. right? but now they're in that world. and so my only advice is usually just to make sure they keep basketball the main thing, because at the end of the day,

that is your vehicle. it's your vehicle to -- angel reese has a podcast. it's her vehicle to be a podcaster, right? whatever caitlin ends up doing, it's the vehicle to get you to that point. so you always want to make sure that part doesn't fall off. >> well, and of course, sports is a business as well. last year, deloitte forecasted that 2024 would be the first year that revenue for women's elite sports would surpass a billion dollars. but where do you put it in the arc of what you are hoping to accomplish? does more need to be done? and what more needs to be done? >> megan and i talk about this all the time, is a lot of times we're not looked at based on our potential, right? whether it's a you athlete, somebody who has already accomplished a lot. it's nevever like, "oh, let me invest in this and see what happens in five to 10 years because i see something." it's always, "okay, what have you done? and do you deserve to be paid now based on what you did do?" but never looking to the future. i would challenge corporate sponsorships

of companies, businesses, tv networks to start looking at us based on our potential. what they think is going to happen, not, "well, let's wait and see in a couple of years to see if this is real." >> what is your message if you could speak to lawmakers, to people who have the ability to change things, not just in sports, but across all industries? what's the message to them? >> i think in so many ways i would love for people to just believe in it and that would be reflected in the policies that they craft up. but that's obviously not the case. and it's been very entrenched. so like people don't really think about it. but public investment in men's teams is in, at this point, likely the hundreds of billions. we're talking stadiums, practicece facilits, investment around like building, you know, the kind of like restaurants and the scene around the stadiums. like a lot of that is done with public money. show me the area where billions of dollars have been invested into women's sports, women, young girls, education, any of that. so like i think from a holistic perspective,

there's so much we need to do. >> you've both been so celebrated. and then recently, your number was retired by the seattle reign and you have a street named after you in seattle. sue, what are those moments like? >> so those are powerful. they're powerful. they're meaningful. i think where i've landed with it is, you know, you play the game, maybe you set some records, you win some championships. and yes, the memories always stay. but there's always another athlete that comes and, you know, breaks one of your records or, you know, maybe wins more gold medals. and then you start to realize, okay, so what's this other impact that i've had? and i think when you're honored in a way of a jersey retirement, in the case for me with the street being named after me, those last forever. and that really, i think, is an indicator of your legacy. and more than that, it's a "see it, be it" moment for a young girl out there right? we've actually changed the world in that way

because i didn't have athletes that had jerseys retired or streets named after them to be like, "i want to try to do that one day." and now there's a younger generation that can see us and see what we've achieved and try to do that. >> you use that word "legacy," which is so powerful. megan, what do you think your legacy is and will be? >> oh, that's a question i think for other people to answer. but i think part of the legacy is, you know, growing our individual teams, growing the sport to think about where the sport is now for a trinity rodman versus where it was for me when i was growing is massively different. there's a million people that are involved in that. but to have our little fingerprints on it in some way, i think when i think about legacy, i think of seeing more like openly gay people in the stands and families and like seeing black lives matter flags in the stands and like seeing groundbreaking cbas and seeing equal pay, like seeing the team continue to win, which has always been the legacy, which is the legacy that i picked up from other people.

now these players get to just take it to a whole new level and, you know, blow us out of the water. and i feel like that's exciting for us and like meaningful for us of like we built something that was sturdy to stand on. and now they're flying. >> when we come back, nbc's savannah guthrie opens up about her faith journey. >> the number one thing i say is bring those doubts to god. bring your whole self to god. he's not afraid of our questions. >> and next, poetry from one of the greats, robert frost. our "meet the press minute" is next. >> we all write poetry because poetry has been written for 10 or 20, 30, 40,000 years. and it's in us, rhythm and meter. whether you need to lose 10, 20, 50, or over 100 pounds, make the healthy choice with golo. head to golo.com

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. >> welcome back. we introduced "meet the moment" just last year. but this broadcast has been a forum for cultural icons for more than 77 years. on christmas day in 1955, the only poet ever to receive four pulitzer prize awards, robert frost, joined "meet the press." asked which of his poems best captured the spirit of america, frost shared these memorable lines. >> the land was ours before we were the land's. she was our land more than 100 years before we were her people. she was ours in massachusetts, in virginia. but we were england's, still colonials, possessing what we still were unpossessed by. possessed by what we now no more possessed. something we were withholding made us weak, until we found out that it was ourselves

we were withholding from our land of living. and forthwith found salvation and surrender. such as we were, we gave ourselves outright. the deed of gift was many deeds of war to the land vaguely realizing westward. but still unstoried, artless, unenhanced, such as she was, such as she would become. and it all lies in that first line. the land was ours before we were the land's.

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. >> to learn more about the books featured on "meet the press," go to nbcnews.com/books. you'll also find new releases on history, biography, and more. nbc news receives a commission for sales made through our website. >> welcome back. you know her as the co-anchor of the "today show." but now, savannah guthrie is showing the world a new side of herself -- her relationship to her faith. while she doesn't consider herself a theologian, savannah says, like so many americans, she's had a spiritual journey throughout her life. from sunday school to choir practice, she always saw god as the sixth member of her family. in her book "mostly what god does," savannah explores her relationship with god and how it's impacted the biggest moments of her life.

i sat down for a very special "meet the moment" conversation with my nbc news colleague to discuss what she's learned while reflecting on her deeply held beliefs. why did you want to write this book now? >> you know, no one is more surprised than me that i wrote a book about anything, let alone about faith and about god. it's definitely the most personal and vulnerable thing i've ever done. >> well, as someone who's known you for a long time, i have to say one of the most beautiful parts of reading this book is that i hear your voice in every word. really, i felt like i was sitting with you every time i read this book. >> for better or worse. >> and i think the world gets to hear your voice every morning on tv. but how did you find your written voice, your literary voice? >> i love to hear you say that, because we are dear friends. and i've had many of my friends say, "this is so funny reading this. it's like sitting and having coffee with you." >> it really is. >> or more likely wine, in my case. but, you know, i just wrote my own thoughts.

i tried to make it very simple, very plain, very down-to-earth, very accessible. it's not a religious tome. i'm the first to put the disclaimer on, saying i'm not a biblical scholar, i'm not a theologian. and i'm not offering myself up as some great example of piety or religious learning. i'm just a regular human who has walked in faith and out of faith over years and years. and these are some of the things that i've learned. and i didn't learn them because everything went well. i learned them mostly when things went wrong. mostly when there were disasters and disasters often of my own making. and the thrust of the book is very simple. it's simple, but it's not easy. it's called "mostly what god does." and the rest of the sentence is, "mostly what god does is love you." >> as you say, you are a person of faith. you grew up with god as the sixth member of your household, you say. what do you say to people who feel like they've lost their faith? how do they find it again?

>> i understand. and i think god understands. we live in a broken world. this is not the world that god intended. and there are hard questions. and i try to talk about those things. where is god in a world that looks to be full of injustice and despair and suffering? whether it's whahat we do in our business by looking at the news every day. or whether it's lives lived where disappointments mount and heartbreak comes and struggle seems constant. i ask those questions. what are we supposed to believe about god? how are we supposed to find him? i don't answer all the existential questions of the universe that are unanswerable. spoiler alert. if i did, the book would probably be longer and i'd charge more. but i don't think it is a mistake and i don't think it is a lack of faith to grapple with those doubts. and the number one thing i say is bring those doubts to god. bring your whole self to god. he's not afraid of our questions. >> and you do write very candidly about one of the most painful times

in your life, which is losing your father at the age of 16. you say, "i remember some of my friends asking if i could still believe in god. if his sudden death at the age of 49 had made me doubt my beliefs. 'no,' i said, 'this is when i need god the most.'" but savannah, i think a lot of people still wonder, how were you able to keep your faith and find such a strong relationship with it all these years later, despite such a devastating loss at such a young age? >> well, you know, when i said that to my friends, i was 16 years old and that was my first reaction. "no, i can't give up god. i can't lose my dad and god, not at the same time." but the rest of my life is a story of any kind of relationship where there's been a breach of trust. and when we have things that come to us that are hard, when we have suffering, it is a breach of trust. i write about this. i don't think that god is the author of evil, suffering and death. this is not e world that he intended. but the fact of the matter is --

and this is what's so difficult, this is the crucible of faith. for whatever reason, reasons we cannot possibly understand right now, he does permit it. this world is still going on in a broken way that is full of heartbreak. and it is very understandable to ask, where is god in those moments? and that is what my life has been about. asking those questions. and i think that what i've learned is, it is a relationship. i believe, and this is my leap of faith, that we will one day have a better world on earth as it is in heaven -- the one intended. but until that day, we are asked to believe and just draw close to god. and believe that he will draw close to us. >> you're very candid about the moments in your life when you did not feel close to god, when you could not access your faith. you are doing the hard work. you started that very early with vail by taking her to church. i love your mom sent the hymns to you to listen to on your cd.

>> people keep asking me, "do your kids go to church?" and i'm like, "yes, i drag them to church in the grand tradition of all of us who were dragged by our ears on sunday morning. yes, i do." >> and you do the work yourself. >> you have to do the work, but you're right, it's very candid. i write about taking not months, not days, not a few weeks, but years in which, yes, i believed in a distant kind of way. but it's not like i was waking up every morning doing bible study or had some pious practices or was even living a life that i would want to hold up to some religious scrutiny. no, i was a regular person. and there were times in my life where i was disappointed with the way things had turned out that i probably did blame god. and i just kind of checked out. and what i learned is that it doesn't matter how much we think of god. it does not matter what we think of god. it doesn't change how he thinks about us. it does not matter. it does not change

how he treats us. so this is the big -- i think for me, the big aha, the big message of the book is mostly what god does is love you. and his love has nothing to do with our thoughts of him. it has nothing to do with our actions, good or bad. it has nothing to do with who we are. it has everything to do with who he is. >> and you say that having children made you understand god's love for you. >> yeah. >> how? how did that revelation happen? >> i mean, you know this -- being a mom is a revelation in every single way. >> i do, yes. >> but spiritually, it really was, too. there was a moment when i realized when my daughter was born, of course, this love that was unimaginable to me before and unlike any other i had experienced, because it's the closest i think we'll ever come to understanding how god relates to us. because a mother or fath's love for their child is unconditional. again, it doesn't matter how they act. on their worst day, your love is not any different

for your daughter. on their worst day, no matter what she does, no matter if she's a snarly teen at 13 and says, "i hate you, mommy," you will love her the same. there's not one thing you could do or say for or against that she could do that would make you change your mind about her. when you realize that that's how god feels about us, it's stunning. it's stunningly intimate and tender. it's almost too good to believe. >> and savannah's children's book, "mostly what god does is love you," will be out in february. that is all for today. thank you so much for watching. happy new year. we'll be back next week, because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press." ♪ ♪

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