number one in the world. thank you for watching. stay tuned for "late night with seth meyers." goodnight, everybody. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ ♪ ♪ [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> announcer: from 30 rockefeller plazan new york, it's "late night with seth meyers."

tonight -- graham norton, alex wagner. an all-new "closer look." ♪ [ cheers and applause ] and now, seth meyers. >> seth: good evening everybody. i'm seth meyers. this is "late night." we hope you're doing well. and now if you don't mind, we're going to get to the news. president-elect trump will be sworn in next week for his second term. "well, i'm out," said everyone doing dry january. [ laughter ] president biden on wednesday is set to deliver his farewell address om the oval office, though i think he ready did that during the first debate. [ light laughter ] bye, bye. former vice president mike pence revealed on friday what he said to president-elect trump at president jimmy carter's state funeral. it was, "no, i don't know how long this is going to take." [ laughter ]

"fox & friends" aired an interview today with incoming first lady melania trump. "so, how's donald?" asked melania. [ laughter and applause ] in the same interview, melania trump said that she's excited about another four years in the white house. in fact, when she found out her husband had won, she went from this to this. [ laughter ] in a new interview on joe rogan's podcast, meta ceo mark zuckerberg criticized apple and said that the rival tech company hasn't, quote, "really invented anything great in a while." and i gotta say, there's nothing quite like hearing you're out of good ideas from the guy who invented threads. [ laughter ] beer company anheuser-busch announced yesterday that they will be raising keg prices by $5 for new york city customers. in response your landlord raised your rent by $500. [ light laughter ] sony last week unveiled a new gaming concept that will allow users to smell video games.

though i'm not sure i want to know what these two smell like when they get off work. [ laughter ] "well, we're back from the sewer." [ laughter ] and finally, dunkin' has partnered with a personal care brand to offer a new collection of deodorant, shampoo, conditioner, and body wash in a boston creme scent. and in a related story, ben affleck has been eaten by ants. [ laughter ] and that was the monologue, everybody. here we are. [ cheers and applause ] we're back. glad to have you. we've got a great show for you tonight. he is a best-selling author and the host of the legendary "graham norton show." his latest novel, "frankie," is out now. our friend graham norton is back. [ cheers and applause ] thrilled to have him. and she hosts "alex wagner tonight" on msnbc. alex wagner will also be joining us. [ cheers and applause ] but before we get to all that, donald trump has not even taken office yet and the maga movement

has broken out into a civil war with elon musk threatening to go to war against his maga critics, and steve bannon calling musk evil. for more on this, it's time for "a closer look." [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> seth: we know very little about what trump's second term will be like, given that he has no fixed principles, or core beliefs, or coherent ideas, of constructive solutions -- [ light laughter ] or plans, or proposals, or policies, or values, or thoughts of any kind. [ laughter ] he watches tv and then he scream posts about what he just saw on tv. he's basically an intellectual rumba. he goes -- [ laughter ] -- in one direction until he bumps into something, and then he just goes off into another direction. [ laughthter ] the only way we'll ever get a health care plan from trump is if someone sneaks in and switches his tv from fox news to "grey's anatomy." [ laughter ] but one thing, one thing we do know for sure is that there will be a lot of fighting because maga love to fight. democrats lecture each other. republicans fight each other.

remember all the drama when kevin mccarthy became speaker and that one republican congressman had to be restrained by the face? [ laughter ] because he was lunging at a colleague? which congressman, you ask? i don't know because i can't see his whole face. [ laughter ] i don't even think that's legal in mma. that's the same move you use on a horse to give him medicine. [ light laughter ] "woah! woah, whoa there, cornflower! [ laughter ] ohh, cornflower! [ laughter ] just hold still and eat the paste. it cures covid." [ laughter ] there was fighting almost immediately after trump won the election when republicans rebelled against his first pick for attorney general, matt gaetz. then they started sniping abt how annoying co-president elon musk was. they broke out in a knife fight over cabinet appointments and had public blowups over leaks to the press. they nearly shut down the government during a fight over spending, after which they almost toppled their own speaker, mike johnson. but then they all calmed down and got on the same page and put their differences aside for the good of the country. and i'm just kidding.

they're at each other's throats. [ laughter ] >> the political civil war already threatening to tear apart trump's grip on the republican party. it's one that pits elon musk against steve bannon. >> it started with a christmas day post by musk on his x platform saying that the united states needs to quickly let in more foreign workers, specifically highly-educated engineers to work for american tech companies. musk hit back on his pro-trump critics with a series of profanity-laced posts saying, quote, "i will go to war on this issue, the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend." that outburst prompted steve bannon to hit back at musk, saying, "someone please notify child protective services. need to do a wellness check on this toddler." >> quote, "i will have elon musk run out of here by inauguration day. he will not have a blue pass to the white house.ve full access the white house. he'll be like any other person. he is a truly evil guy, a very bad guy. i made it my personal thing to take this guy down."

>> seth: you know, i'm really trying my best to find joy wherever i can amidst the darkness of a trump presidency, so, let me just say, i'm really [ bleep ] enjoying this. i mean -- [ laughter ] elon musk and steve bannon fighting finally answers the question, is there anything republicans won't blame on wokeness? because the wokes' hands are clean on this one. [ light laughter ] elon musk talks about the woke mind virus and steve bannon is so un-woke his clothes always look like he's still sleeping. [ laughter ] this is just fun. elon musk thought he could buy his way into maga with his billions of dollars, but now that trump won, bannon and his ilk can basically say, "shut up, nerd, also go buy a bigger t-shirt. your belly shows when you do your little [ bleep ] hops." [ laughter ] elon musk is learning a lesson sports fans already know -- just because you're loyal to a team doesn't mean a team will be loyal to you. "but i bought the hat." nobody cares, bro. [ light laughter ] this all started at the end of last year when elon musk and fellow tech bro vivek ramaswamy defended ising what are known as

h1b visas to bring in foreign workers atech companies, which sparked a backlash among hardline immigration opponents. >> this feud has quickly evolved into a referendum on american workers. elon musk claiming america needs more highly-skilled immigrants to win. saying, quote, "if you force the world's best talents to play for the other side, america will lose. end of story." vivek ramaswamy, musk's cohort in their department of government efficiency, coming to musk's defense and posting on x, "our american culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long," adding, "a culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math olympiad champ or the jock over the valedictorian will not produce the best engineers." >> a culture that venerates corey from "boy meets world" or zack and slater over screech in "saved by the bell," or stefan over steve urkel in "family matters" will not produce the best engineers.

>> seth: a culture that venerates zack and slater over screech? time-out. [ laughter ] does vivek ramaswamy think donald trump is team screech? [ laughter ] does vivek ramaswamy think for one second if given a choice between steve urkel and stefan urquelle, donald trump doesn't urquelle it 100 times out of 100? [ light laughter ] also, vivek clearly never saw "boy meets world," or he would know that the most beloved character on that show was topanga, who beat minkus for valedictorian and got into yale but only decided to go to pembroke so she could be with cory, over the advice of mr. feeny, who told her to go to yale. [ laughter ] and was obviously, feeny was fight. i mean, she worked her whole life to get into the school of her dreams, only to prioritize the needs of a boy over her own ambitions? although ultimately it worked out because she did become a successful lawyer on "girl meets world," even though i feel like she probably regrets not going to yale, and oh, [ bleep ], i've lost my mind. i've [ bleep ]. [ laughter ] i went on a "boy meets world" rant -- [ cheers and applause ] -- in the middle of "a closer look" because i have lost my mind. my parents were right. i should have gone outside more.

[ laughter ] time-in. the point is, those tweets drove bannon and the hardline maga right out of their minds and now bannon is going all out against musk. >> this is central to how they gutted the middle class in this country. and we haven't fought these battles over years and years and years to allow american citizens of every race, ethnicity, religion, be gutted by the sociopathic overlords in silicon valley. we're not doing that. we're not doing that. we're not having rule by nerds. oh, yeah, tough guy? that -- you're going to go to r on the likes of which you could not possibly comprehend. you're -- you're -- you're a man child,d, to be bnt. screw you, you clown. don't come up and go to the pulpit in your first week here and start lecturing people about the way things are going to be. if you're going to do that, we're going to get and we're going to rip your face off. >> seth: that's right. we're going to rip your face off. then i'm going to rip my own face off. then we're going to switch faces and i'm going to take over your

life and it's going to be exactly like the movie "face/off" and i'll be john travolta and you'll be nicolas cage saying, "you've got to believe me, i'm elon musk!" and yeah, i'm stealing andy samberg's nic cage impression, but only because i don't have a travolta. [ light laughter ] "eh, look at my new face." see? [ laughter ] it's like not -- ehh-hh. it's nothing. [ light laughter ] also, i just want to point this out. those were three separate clips from three consecutive shows. and in every clip, bannon's wearing the exact same thing. [ laughter ] you think this guy's going to change his mind on immigration? he doesn't even change his clothes. [ laughter ] but to me the funniest part of all of this is that trump is just caught in the middle between the maga diehards who form his base and the rich oligarchs who helped get him elected. and he doesn't even really know what the hell they're talking about. he's taking every single side of this issue while also making it clear he has no idea what he's talking about.

[ laughter ] >> i'm in favor of people coming into this country legally. and you know what? they can have it any way you want. you can call it visas. you can call it work permits. you can call it anything you want. as far as the visas are concerned, if we need people, they have -- it's fine. i'm changing. i'm changing. [ light laughter ] we need highly skilled people in this country. and if we can't do it, we'll get them in. but -- but -- and we do need. in silicon valley, we absolutely have to have -- i know the h1b very well, and it's something that i frankly use and i shouldn't be allowed to use. we shouldn't have it. very, very bad for workers. i know the h1b. i know the h2b. nobody knows it better than me. [ laughter ] >> seth: i know h1b, i know h2b, i know b2b, i know to be or not to be. and that really is, frankly the question in many wa -- "whether 'tis nobler," nobody says 'tis anymore. [ laughter ] nobody says 'tis. and it's sad we don't say 'tis. weather 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer the slings and arr --

and i've suffered maybe more -- [ laughter ] -- than any president when it comes to the slings and the arrows. people say lincoln but he was bullet. and i -- [ laughter ] i remember a playwright came up to me once, big playwright, british playwright. [ laughter ] tears running down his face and onto his big white collar, and he said to me, he said, "sir, they make you suffer, sir, and 'tis -- 'tis a shame." [ laughter and applause ] also, it is incredible to hear trump of all people, a man with absolutely no skills, insist that we need highly skilled workers. i don't know if he could name one of the skills he's referring to. "we need highly skilled immi -- who can do computer. [ laughter ] who can do calculator, and of course we can do dribbling. let's not forget -- [ laughter ] the b in h1b stands for basketball." trump was all over the place in that montage. he really is turning into a rumba. >> i'm in favor of people coming into this country legally. and you know what? they can have it any way you want. we shouldn't have it.

very, very bad for workers. i'm changing. i'm changing. we need highly skilled people in this country. [ cheers and applause ] >> seth: yeah. and you don't even -- they pulled that together in the last hour. [ laughter ] this is what happens when an oligarch tries to buy their way into a reactionary movement for their own self-interest. we're watching a volatile mix of power hungry billionaires and true believers. it's like watching someone jump into the leopard cage at the zoo. you can try to befriend the leopards all you want, but eventually, those leopards are going to eventually -- >> rip your face off. [ laughter ] >> seth: this has been "a closer look." ♪ [ cheers and applause ] we'll be right back with graham norton, everybody. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ >> announcer: for more of seth's "closer looks," be sure to subscribe to "late night" on youtube. if you're living with moderate to severe plaque psoriasis or active psoriatic arthritis

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♪ [ cheers and applause ] >> seth: welcome back, everybody. our first guest tonight is a best-selling author and the award-winning host of "the graham norton show." his latest novel, "frankie," is on sale now. please welcome back to the show graham norton, everybody. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ ♪ >> very nice. >> seth: welcome! >> oh, thank you very much.

>> seth: please, please. >> thank you, thank you, thank you. >> seth: how are you? >> hello, hi. i'm good. i'm very good. how are you? >> seth: i'm wonderful. you are -- look, you're a master of this craft. we've talked about the differences in the british chat show and the american talk show before. >> yeah. >> seth: but i recently read you were giving an interview and you had a specific criticism about what we give you to drink. >> well, look, here's the thing. on my show, you get alcohol. now i get it, maybe you can't have alcohol here. but i think, if you're going to serve water, put it in a glass. >> seth: yeah. [ light laughter ] >> why -- why a mug? it's like, ooh, you made me a cup of coffee. no, it's water. [ light laughter ] it's like a prison visit. it's -- [ light laughter ] >> seth: i'm going to tell you something. i never once thought about it. and when i read you saying that, i immediately thought, what are we doing? >> why? >> seth: a mug of water. room temwater. because we want you to feel at home. [ laughter ] >> yeah. >> seth: we did -- we did freshen you up. one of them, it has coffee. >> i see that. >> seth: we couldn't go to full alcohol, but that's how low the bar here is. you're like, they gave me coffee.

>> ooh, caffeine. it's still warm. i just had a little taste. >> seth: you have been doing your show for a great many years now. >> yes. >> seth: were you good -- and deservedly so, get credit for being such a good interviewer. were you immediately good at that? >> look, it's such an odd job because, you know, it's a talk show and everyone can talk. so, you know, anyone can do this sensibly. [ light laughter ] >> seth: yeah. woah, hey, hey, graham. keep it downn baby. don't let the cat out of the bag -- >> audience -- audience, storm stage. [ talking over each other ] >> seth: less than seth. >> so, but the first professional interview i ever did was on the radio. and the regular host is away, so i got the gig. and i was doing it for two weeks, two saturdays. and it was similar to my own show, it's a bunch of guests at the same time. so i did the first show. i thought it went well. and -- but then i got a call from the head honcho at the radio station wanting to take me out for lunch, to discuss that show and maybe give me some advice for the next show. and i was good.

'cause i wanted to learn. >> seth: yeah, of course. >> i wanted tips. so i go for the lunch and i'm waiting for the words of wisdom. nothing, nothing. finally, he goes, "thing is, graham, when you're interviewing a guest --" and i'm going, yes, all ears. and he goes, "when you're interviewing a guest, you must treat them like a jam scone." and i'm like, "okay, yeah." [ light laughter ] he goes, "and you must take that jam scone and you must hold it up to the light." and i said, "okay. yeah, i'll definitely try to do that next week." [ light laughter ] do the jam scone thing. i get back to the office and they go, "what did he say?" and i said, "well, he said this thing about that each guest is a jam scone." and we're all going, what on earth is that about? and then one of the producers who was clearly a bit cleverer than the rest of us went, "do you think he said gemstone?" [ laughter ] could have. [ applause ] it's possible. >> seth: i'm so relieved because as you were telling that, i was like i don't think i've ever treated any of them like a jam scone.

i don't even know that's a way to describe a scone. really good. >> yeah, a jam scone. >> seth: do you ever -- do you ever feel like -- do you at least keep the gemstone advice in our head? >> no, just the jam scone. >> seth: yeah, yeah. once you get it in, it's hard to knock that out. >> i try to keep them warm and sticky. [ laughter ] >> seth: your first live show on television, also memorable. >> yeah, well, basically i had been on a different network. then i got moved to the bbc. kind of they took me over there. and the bbc is the big serious, you know, national broadcaster back in the uk. so, it was my very first live show. and i was hosting a dancing competition. don't ask. [ light laughter ] and anyway, so, we're standing in the studio. we're waiting to go live. the audience are there. the dancers are primed. they're all bendy. [ light laughter ] and suddenly there's a news flash. the pope had died, right? [ audience ohs ] i know -- [ laughter ]

you had to catch yourselves there, didn't you? you're like, ha, ha, ha, oh, no, oh, bad. [ laughter ] oh, pope dying. no, that's not good. >> seth: we don't care for that. >> i remember one of the judges on the dancing competition, he was italian. and they had to go into his dressing room and tell him the pope was dead. he went, "il papa e morte?!" and threw himself against a wall. [ laughter ] so, the tension was quite high. >> seth: don't you love when people just play right into the stereotype? >> "il papa e morte!" so anyway i'm on stage and they're in my ear. and the news flash is going on. there's a guy live from rome going -- i presume just saying the pope's dead over and over again. they're in my ear. and they are going, "okay when we come out of the opening title sequence, there will be no applause." i'm going, "okay." then they go, "no, there will be applause, but no cheering." okay. yeah. "when you read the opening thing, emphasize the tension of the competition but not the excitement." so, i'm hearing all this. great, great. anyway, what they forgot was

that when the news flash ended, pope dead, it goes to a black screen, just pope john paul ii and his dates, right? and then that merged into our opening credits which we had forgotten that that was black and our opening credits were also a black screen, right? onto which walked me in a white suit. [ light laughter ] i then approached a big switch and went like that -- [ audience ohs ] [ laughter ] signaling bumping dance music and neon signs. [ light laughter ] it was like i just said to the nation, "yeah, the pope's dead. who cares?" >> seth: yeah. >> let's dance! >> seth: even better, looking back, i wish you'd come out and the first thing you said is, "i'm your new pope." [ laughter ] you have something incredibly novel.

i mean, there's a lot about your show that is unlike certainly anything we have here. but the red chair segment is -- i mean, i'm deeply jealous of it. but you came to it -- was it your idea to have the red -- >> no. no, not at all. and this is the thing -- 'cause i think a lot of people in america, they see my show on youtube -- >> seth: yes, a lot of the celebrity anecdotes. >> little clips go on instagram and stuff. but there's a bit at the end, this red chair story, where ordinary members of the public sit in the chair and if they bore us with their story. we have a big switch. it's the same switch i used to kill the pope. and -- [ laughter ] >> seth: now the truth comes out. >> and we flip them. [ talking over each other ] >> seth: i'm sorry. you flip them -- if people missed it, you really do have to watch. the great thing about how you flip them, they flip straight back. it's like they have puppet legs. [ laughter ] i can't believe -- it's so delightful. >> you are such a television professional because we brief them to throw their legs up. >> seth: do you? [ audience ohs ]

>> yeah. >> seth: well, they do it -- that is a very funny thing to brief them. which is you're basically saying, "at some point, graham will become bored of you. [ laughter ] and then we do need you to play along." >> yeah. but it would be funnier if your legs click up. >> seth: some of them are very good. >> oh, yes. >> seth: with the way they throw their legs up. [ light laughter ] >> and it happened by accident. we had -- there was a comic, anybody british will know ronnie corbett. he's long gone now, but he was on our show. and he used to do a thing on his show where he sat in a big red chair and told stories. so we said, "wouldn't it be funny if audience members sat in that." ronnie corbett if he's bored could flip them -- fine, did it. then, couple weeks later we got a call from our line producer going, "you know that chair you had built?" i'm like, "yes." yeah, turns out that was quite expensive. [ light laughter ] so, if you could use it again, that would be really -- >> seth: more times? >> yeah, we had to play it for over weeks. so it must be about 12 years now, we use it every week. >> seth: gotcha. i mean -- and again, it is that you get bored and you pull --

but people seem to be really delighted about the moment they get flipped over. >> sometimes even if i say you can walk, they kind of go, "i want to be flipped." >> seth: yeah. >> yeah. [ light laughter ] sometimes i do see people sat in the chair, and it's awful, you know, larger audience members, and i think, will it work? [ laughter ] so, often i just let them tell their story. [ laughter ] >> seth: thank you for letting us behind the curtain of the chair. i have a lot more to ask you about your wonderful book. we'll be back with graham after this. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ got photos on your phone? you've probably got some photobooks just waiting to be made. lots of baby photos? make a baby book. or, how about a team book? ep adventure? put travel memories on a page. the big 5-0? cute dog? that's a book and that's a book too. give us your photos and our free 24-hour designer service will make your book overnight. if it

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♪♪ ♪♪ dreams begin here. welcome to the goodnight club. you suggested we go to one of the saunas, and i was like, "oh, lovely." like, never been to the european saunas before. [ laughter ] >> are you still dating her? >> yeah, she's in the audience, actually. [ laughter ] >> and then all of a sudden, my husband comes out the shower naked -- [ laughter ] then he look at us, and he said,

"you mean the nipples?" [ laughter ] >> quite a good story, but i'm still going to flip you. >> seth: the last two had good legs. >> yeah, very good legs. [ cheers and applause ] >> seth: good legs. >> yeah. trained dancers. >> seth:his is -- i'm very impressed. you have a new novel. how many have you done now? >> this is number five. >> seth: number five. really -- and this is only really in like a little over ten years. [ cheers and applause ] >> yeah, since i turned 50 i started writing fiction. and, you know, the disconnect between who i am on television and the person who writes these books is enormous because these are really kind of quiet books. you know, this one, it's a story of a life, and it's a young woman growing up, a traumatic childhood in ireland. she ends up leaving ireland, going to london, ending up in new york in the 1960s. and it's a kind of epic tale. but there was no clue that i wrote it. you would just think i -- it's like i went into a shop, read a book, "that's quite good," and

then ripped the cover off, and put my thing on it. [ light laughter ] because it's not me. >> seth: absolutely not you. save for the fact that this fascinating woman in the book is telling her story to her irish sort of caregiver -- >> yeah. >> seth: --who is very good at getting these good stories out of her, which is of course what you do every day. >> and of course i hadn't noticed the parallel to my life until i finished the book. [ light laughter ] it's the most obvious thing. "and obviously this is based on you." i was like, "oh, yeah i see what you mean." [ light laughter ] young irish gay guy getting people to tell stories. >> seth: yeah. >> i see where you're going. >> seth: ticks every single box. you also -- obviously you're here, we're letting people know you have this great new book. you cannot, or you choose not, to promote that you have a book on your show? >> i'm not allowed. >> seth: really? >> on the bbc, you're not allowed to promote your own stuff. >> seth: because they think it's not -- it's uncouth, to be a person? >> well, one, it's uncouth. >> seth: yeah. >> to kind of go, "i've written a really good book everyone." [ light laughter ] >> seth: oh, yeah. >> it's also there's no advertising on the bbc. >> seth: ah.

>> now, ignore the fact that everyone's on my show promoting. [ laughter ] films, albums. >> seth: when tom cruise is on, it's never just, he's like, "i don't actually have anything." >> yeah, we never pick at that thread. >> seth: okay. >> we just let that happen. but as the host, i can never mention that i write books or -- >> seth: right. >> -- or that i make wine, or anything else. nothing, nothing. >> seth: 'cause you know when us late night guys in the states, when we write a kids' book -- >> oh. >> seth: we flog it like it's nobody's business. [ laughter ] >> i know, i see it so often. i think, children can't read that fast. slow down, everyone. [ laughter ] so many children's books. >> seth: yeah. well, i also think it speaks to a level of what talk show hosts in england and talk show hosts in america -- you've written five novels. i've written one kids' book where i didn't even do the drawings. [ laughter ] >> and they were big. >> seth: they were big drawings. do you feel -- i maen, again, this is -- one, it's fiction about somebody telling stories. but of course fiction is telling stories. you seem to have a good ear for

someone who can tell a good story. do you think that helps you as a writer? >> maybe. i mean, i have -- you know, because i've heard a lot of stories. you know what's good a one and what's bad a one. and also as i am quite good in the novels at, kind of, knowing when i need to, kind of, change the scene, end the scene, move the story along." you know, because people tell me that you know, they're pretty -- they're kind of easy to read. they're very readable. >> seth: right. >> i guess that's where it comes from. also, i think being irish helps. i think irish people, we just love stories in a kind of pure way. in the u.k., i notice people enjoy stories but only if they know someone in them. [ light laughter ] so, it's like, it's someone from the office or it's a celebrity or something. >> seth: right. >> irish people don't care. if it's a good story, it could be your brother-in-law's cousin's neighbor's aunt, we're in. if it's a good story, we're in. and i feel like there's an awful lot of fiction comes out of that little island. you know, ireland is small. >> seth: very good at putting stories into the world. >> at typing. >> seth: yes, and typing.

[ light laughter ] did you -- sort of in the moment, you are probably judging even when it's a giant a-list star. this story is going well, this story is going badly. how -- do you feel like you're good at showing restraint when a story is going off? or do you have to jump in and try to help? >> i normally -- i mean, if there's an easy way to end to it, i will. >> seth: yeah. >> shut up. [ laughter ] >> seth: that's certainly the easiest. >> save yourself. run! robert de niro, who -- has he been on here? >> seth: yes, he has. >> i mean, he's a lovely, lovely man. >> seth: yeah. >> i really like robert de niro. but he's not that chatty. >> seth: no, he's not, yeah. [ light laughter ] >> and he's been on an enormous amount of shows. i've discovered, as you know, that he's a benign presence. >> seth: yes. >> you know, it's not like he's having a horrible time. he's having a nice time. >> seth: yeah, he's having a really nice time. >> he just doesn't like to talk very much. he was on our show, must have been about the fourth time he was on. he was having such a nice time. he started to tell an anecdote. and we were like, "oh, my god, robert de niro is telling an anecdote."

[ light laughter ] well, it soon became clear why he doesn't. [ laughter ] it was -- it was properly, like, you knowow, one ofhose old lady going, "and it was on a wednesday, no, i tell a lie. it was a thursday. [ light laughter ] no, it would have been a wednesday because i took the bins out the night before." so, it was like that. and it was going on for some time. and then bless him, you could tell that this is, oh, this is spaghetti in my head. and then he looked at me, and he went, "why am i telling this?" [ laughter ] >> seth: he's like, i just came here to have a nice time. >> we cut it out. >> seth: okay, that's very kind. that's very kind of you to do. yeah, i remember the first time he hosted "snl." and i had a wonderful time with him. it was my -- think my first year of the show. and i got in an elevator. sort of, ran to catch an elevator not realizing he was the only other person in the elevator. and, you know, that was not as exciting as that seemed because he's so comfortable being quiet. >> yes. >> seth: and so, you know, we

were on the 17th floor and it's just sort of a long, slow elevator. [ light laughter ] at one point he goes, "did you write that sketch?" i was like, "i did." he goes, "pretty good." [ laughter ] and then just -- [ laughter ] and i was like, when i got off, i'm like, "that's either the best or worst thing that ever happened to me, but --" >> go with best. >> seth: i'll go -- i'll go with best. >> go with best. >> seth: i'll go with best. >> go with best. >> seth: um, congratulations. please, every time you come to the city, you have to come visit us. >> it's such a nice place to be. and you have such a great team. >> seth: and we're gonna put a little -- we're gonna put a little -- what's your alcohol of choice you want in the coffee next time? >> honestly, i don't care. >> seth: okay great. >> yeah. [ laughter ] >> seth: as long as it's not water. [ cheers and applause ] >> yeah. >> seth: okay, great. graham norton, everybody. "frankie" is on sale now. we'll be right back with alex wagner. ♪ [ cheers and applause ] ♪♪ which you do you want to be today?

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>> seth: our next guest hosts "alex wagner tonight" on msnbc. please welcome back to the show alex wagner, everybody. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ ♪ [ cheers and applause ] >> seth: welcome back. >> thank you, sir. >> seth: it is a fascinating time to be doing the job you're doing. >> that's one adjective. [ laughter ] >> seth: let's start with everything that's going on, the tragedy in california with the wildfires. >> yeah. >> seth: my question to you is -- this happened in the first trump administration, where it seemed as though certain governors of states had to sort of kiss the ring in order to get donald trump to pay attention to them, to sort of stop attacking them for the terrible natural disasters that happened in their states. is this something we're going to see again with governors basically having to, you know, supplicate themselves to trump in order to get the, you know, federal aid they need? >> i am loath to make predictions about donald trump but i feel pretty confident that yes, 1,000 times yes.

i mean, you've already seen the attacks he's launched towards gavin newsom as los angeles is burning. there is no shame about demanding concessions here. there wasn't in the first term as you laid out. i mean, he literally said to certain governors, "you better be really nice to me." right? this is -- we're going -- and he is quite obviously more emboldened, more confident in his position going into his second term. and i think he's going to use every cudgel, every arrow in his quiver and throw it at whoever he thinks deserves it regardless of what situation they're in. >> seth: also, i think when these things happen, the wisest choose to show patience before they jump into the fray, you know, maybe with unfounded allegations, with misinformation. he certainly did not tap the brakes much on that. >> has he ever tapped the brakes on -- >> seth: no, he doesn't seem like -- >> i don't think he has brakes. >> seth: i don't think he's ever been on his phone being like, "wait, i'm not hitting send." >> no. [ laughter ] "should i really do that?" >> seth: "this is crazy." yeah. >> no, i mean, i think every crisis is an opportunity, and in the worst way possible, right? you want to talk about fires? they want to talk about dei. you want to talk about the heroes that have been putting

these fires out? they want to talk about the fact that the women that run the fire department are -- well, the people that run the fire department are women. they want to talk about dei. they want to smear a democrat because he's the guy in charge if only because he's a democrat. i mean, everything should be seen through the lens of partisan gain. and i think, you know, we say that a lot. but i -- you watched these fires unfold. we all did. it is a hellscape. and to be the incoming president of the united states and to look at these towns and people's lives burning down and to say, "my reaction in this moment is to go on the attack," is a completely different psychological profile than anything we've ever seen in modern american history. >> seth: of course the argument he would make is, "it works. every time a tragedy happens, i use it as an opportunity. i find a villain, i attack a villain. and i get re-elected when no one thought certainly, when i left office that would happen." i think the democrats, obviously, you know, have to reflect back on what exactly went wrong. you know, i think that they, one

could argue, allowed this to happen. you're going out on the road for the first 100 days of his presidency. you're going to interview, you know, people across the political spectrum. what are you expecting to find from people in this incredibly divided time? >> well, i mean -- so, we're going to be talking to everybody who is involved in the decision making, affected by the decision making, and lured in by the promises. so, you know, i did a little bit of that in the last 100 days of the election. i talked to, you know, union voters in saginaw, michigan, which is the swingiest swing district in the country. and i knew democrats had a problem when they started referring to january 6th as february 6th. i thought, "you know what? the messaging isn't working around that one." >> seth: right, yeah. [ light laughter ] >> and so, that wasn't good in terms of understanding the bellwether, culturally, in terms of where we were. right now, i think the question is, what does it mean to have trump as a president beyond just the rhetoric? whose lives are being affected? you want to set up mass deportation camps? we're going to talk to the people who're getting rounded up.

you want to talk about pardoning january 6th rioters, we're going to talk to the inmates once they're freed. you want to talk about the trump administration and who's running it and who's powerful and how they do it? we're going to go inside washington, d.c., and bring that to you. i ink one of the feelings we have all had after the end of this election is that we kind of have missed this cataclysmic moment, in the media to some degree and certainly in the democratic party. and i think it's -- as someone who's done a lot of field reporting in my life as -- with "the circus" on showtime, and just as a journalist, generally, i think it's essential that we get out there and show the country 360 degrees -- a 360-degree view of what is happening and how people are being affected on a visceral and personal level. too much of this is unfolding in the abstract. [ applause ] >> seth: very happy you're doing it. i certainly feel as though i missed it as well. this is not -- where you are in your career is not necessarily what one would have predicted from a couple of the early publications you worked for. these are titles -- tell me if i'm wrong -- you worked for a publication called "bikini." >> yeah, my parents were really excited about that one. >> seth: and another one called "ray gun."

>> yes. well, they were sister publications. >> seth: okay. of course. bikinis and ray guns go together like -- [ laughter ] >> they do, actually. i think of women -- anyway. [ laughter ] "bikini" was a men's lifestyle magazine. >> seth: okay. >> and "ray gun" was a very cool music magazine. there were not that many magazines published in los angeles, california, seth. they were two of the magazines that were published in california. and i, unlike every other person i went to college with, wanted to move to california and not new york. i love los angeles. i think of it as my second home. and it was a really -- a fascinating time. i got to interview a lot of young starlets for the men's magazine. >> seth: that's very exciting. >> yes. i got very comfortable with bikinis as a fashion accessory. [ laughter ] i -- no one told me that you can't live in hollywood and work in santa monica, so, i was stuck in hour and a half long traffic every day each way, smoking camel ultra lights out of the window of my volvo. [ laughter ] like, that was the california dream i lived. but i have to say, the first time i went to los angeles, i

landed and i saw that big randy's doughnut. >> seth: yeah. >> do you know what i'm talking about. >> seth: i do. >> and i knew, like, "this is the place for me." not just because i love doughnuts but because los angeles is -- everything is preserved there as if in amber, right? the old doughnut shops are all still there. and one of the things that's so heartbreaking about this fire is that the city that's so good at preserving the classics has seen so much burn down. and, like, not to make it maudlin again, but that -- as much, obviously, my first though is with people. but the structure of los angeles, the timelessness of it, the nostalgia, it hurts to see the city in flames. >> seth: it really does. and -- you know, i'm just -- it's hard to find, like, any sort of optimism as you watch it still rage, and i know we're supposed to see terrible winds continuing. but i do believe that there are people in los angeles, people in that part of our country who are, you know, dreamers and the kind of people who can build something back up again. >> totally. >> seth: so, i try to hold that optimism. >> and every single person i know in l.a. is doing something about this. if they haven't been personally affected, they're out there,

they're helping their friends and neighbors. it's like one big casting call for heroes, you know? and they take it seriously in that city, those casting calls. >> seth: i do want to find something to be upbeat about. are you excited that we're about to invade greenland? >> i -- [ laughter ] i don't know if you've seen a map, but it's massive. >> seth: is massive. >> i just think the big problem for trump is he doesn't understand that when you take a globe and then you put it on a flat map, it distorts the size of things. he thinks greenland is actually a lot bigger than it really is. >> seth: yeah. >> and so, there's buyer's remorse. >> seth: oh, my god, i wish it was your job to, like, tell him that globe-map thing. >> sir, sir -- mercator projection -- sir? sir? it's not quite that big, sir. it's not bigger than the united states. >> seth: no, no, look at the globe. and you're like, "no." >> it's huge. >> seth: he would make you cut the globe into a map and lay it out. [ laughter ] >> someone'll do it. >> seth: someone'll do it. >> j.d. vance, your time is now. >> seth: but again, something to look forward to. [ laughter ] you think he's going to be the map guy? >> i mean, what else -- he doesn't have anything else to do. >> seth: you're right. got to be the map guy. >> elon's -- elon's running the

country. [ laughter and applause ] >> seth: he's gonna be the map guy, you're right. thanks for being here, alex. i'm looking forward to you being out on the road. >> thank you. >> seth: i really appreciate. >> thank you, thank you. >> seth: you guys, alex wagner. [ cheers and applause ] "trumpland: the first 100 days" starts january 20th and runs through april 30th. we'll be right back. [ cheers and applause ] ♪

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[ cheers and applause ] >> seth: i want to thank my guests, graham norton and alex wagner, everybody! thanks for watching. we love you. [ cheers and applause ] ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪