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this sunday, breaking point. >> you don't have the cards >> a dramatic oval office meeting with ukraine's president turns combative as tensions rise over efforts to make a peace deal with russia. >> you're gambling with world war iii, and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. you're either going to make a deal or we're out. >> are we witnessing a realignment of the u.s. and its allies? plus, spending showdown as president trump prepares to address congress and the nation republicans are promising nearly a trillion dollars in spending cuts. can they do it without cutting popular program like medicaid? >> it won't be read my lips anymore. we're not going to touch it. >> and legal challenges. >> if we don't do this, america will go bankrupt. that's why it has to be done. >> elon musk's efforts to slash government agencies are being blocked by multiple federal judges. will the court rulings hold? >> he's tearing down our

institutions for fun. it's a game. it's not public service. >> my guest this morning speaker of the house mike johnson, independent senator bernie sanders of vermont and republican senator james lankford of oklahoma. joining me for insight and analysis are nbc news washington managing editor carol lee, telemundo news anchor julio vaqueiro, stephanie murphy and republican strategist brendan buck. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." from numbers news in washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. good sunday morning. the stakes are incredibly high as president trump prepares to address a joint session of congress tuesday night. it comes as newspapers around the world are highlighting what appears to be a realignment of u.s. alliances and a stunning turn towards russia.

on friday in a heated confrontation in the oval office, president trump and vice president vance berated president zelenskyy in an explosive and unprecedented televised showdown. u.s. officials say the path to a peace deal to end the war in ukraine is deeply uncertain and wholly dependent on the ukrainian leader's next steps. since the clash, trump administration officials have also discussed whether to pause u.s. military aid to ukraine according to two administration officials though it is unclear whether or when the president would take such a step. the meeting took a sharp turn when the vice president mentioned talks with russian president putin. >> the path to peace and the path to prosperity issic ma engaging in diplomacy. >> he broke the ceasefire. he killed our people and he didn't exchange prisoners. we signed the exchange of prisoners, but he didn't do it. what kind of diplomacy, j.d., you are speaking about?

what do you mean? >> i am talking about the kind of diplomacy that's going to end the destruction of your country. >> mr. president, with respect, i think it's disrespectful for you to come to the oval office and try to litigate this in front of the american media. >> the meeting then descended into a shouting match. >> during the war everybody has problems, even you, about you you have nice ocean and don't feel now, but you will feel it in the future. god bless -- >> you don't know that. >> you don't know that. >> don't tell us what we're going to feel. we're trying to solve a problem. don't tell us what we're going to feel. >> i'm not telling you -- >> remember this, you are in no position to dictate what we're going to feel. >> you will feel influence. i am telling you -- >> you're right now not in a very good position. you've allowed yourself to be in a very bad position and he happens to be right about it. >> you're not in a good

position. you don't have the cards right now. with us, you start having cards. >> not playing cards. >> mr. president -- >> i am very serious. >> -- millions of people. you are gambling with world war iii. you are gambling with world war iii, and what you're doing is very disrespectful to the country, this country. >> i respect you. >> far more than a lot of people said they should have. >> have you said thank you once in the entire meeting? >> in this entire meet having you said thank you? >> ukraine's ambassador to the u.s. at one point hid her face in her hands. a white house official tells nbc news that following the confrontation president zelenskyy was asked to leave the white house, a meeting abruptly canceled a deal left unsigned. president trump posting on social media saying he disrespected the united states of america in its cherished oval office. he can come back when he's ready

if peace. the confrontation comes days after the u.s. sided with russia at the united nations condemning russian aggression on the third anniversary of its invasion of ukraine. the oval office showdown was cheered in russia. putin ally dmitry medvedev writing, quote, the pig finally got a slapdown in the oval office as support for ukraine hangses in the balance, he spoke on fox news. >> i'm not hearing from you a thought that you owe the president an apology. >> no, i respect the president and respect the american people. i think that we have to be very open and very honest, and i'm not sure that we did something bad. this is so sensitive, you know? just a ceasefire without security guarantee. this is so sensitive for our people. i am speaking as a president of

people who are in a struggle for three years, and they just want to hear that america is on our side and that america will stay with us and not with russians. with us. >> and joining me now is the speaker of the house, republican congressman mike johnson of louisiana. speaker johnson, welcome back to "meet the press." >> hi, kristen. great to be with you as always. >> it's great to have you back, mr. speaker. as you know, reaction has been pouring in to that oval office meeting on friday. democrats and even some republicans say it only emboldened vladimir putin, a kremlin spokesman saying today that the u.s. foreign policy shift, quote, largely coincides with its vision. here was "the wall street journal" editorial board, quote, putin wins. the trump-zelenskyy oval office was vladimir putin the winner here, mr. speaker? >> no, he wasn't.

i've participated in a lot of bilateral meetings with heads of state and other dignitaries. there is always protocol. i have never seen anything like president zelenskyy's behavior there and he berated and interrupt the host and instead of expressing help for the support the u.s. has provided his country and effectively helped him stay alive and stay in power. so the way that that went down was very disappointing. i hope and pray, frankly that president zelenskyy will come to his senses, come back to president trump express gratitude as he should, apologize for his behavior there and accept this mineral rights deal because that is the best way for us to get to a point of peace in the region and it's in the interest of both countries. >> want to play you what you said almost a year ago when you argued in favor of sending more aid to ukraine. take a listen. >> i believe xi and vladimir putin and iran really are an

axis of evil. i think they're in coordination on this. i think vladimir putin would continue to march through europe if he were allowed. he would go to the balkans next and have a showdown with poland. to put it bluntly, i would rather send bullets to ukraine than american boys. >> mr. speaker, do you still believe that ukraine is an ally who the united states should support over vladimir putin and an axis of evil? >> yes. it's pretty absurd for anyone in the media or democrats to somehow proclaim that president trump, the white house or republicans in congress are on putin's side. it's a joke. we understand that he is a dangerous adversary and he is the one that provoked the war. when we did the aid to ukraine a year ago the entire point of that, and i was consistent from that moment until today, the whole point was to position ukraine for peace talks to make sure that they could hold the line until president trump returned to the white house

which we knew was going to happen. president trump is the only figure on the entire globe who is powerful enough to bring both of these parties to the table and he was in the process of doing that and he was excited about the deal that was going to be consummated yesterday, but president zelenskyy went in and blew it up and it is such a great disappointment for everyone. we need to get him back to the table and ye need to get ukraine to express gratitude for all that we've done for them, but to bring it into this conflict, it is in america's interest to get it done and it is in ukraine's interest in all of our allies in europe and around the world. >> mr. speaker, you're saying we all know that putin -- president trump said president zelenskyy provoked the war. refusing to condemn yugz -- is

president realigning the united states with russia here? >> no. president trump is trying to get these two parties to a point of peace, and it takes certain maneuvers and certain strategies to do that. you have two parties who to this point have not shown any interest apparently in getting to peace. what president zelenskyy did in the white house was effectively signaled to us that he's not ready for that yet, and i think that's a grave disappointment. we have to get this settled and we stand with our allies, we always do, but they have to be reasonable. you have to bring it into this war and for zelenskyy to come in and make demands that he wasn't even making a year ago, i think shows that his priorities are in the wrong place, and i certainly hope that he will come back to his senses. president trump has been very clear about this, that if he is ready for peace then we can negotiate a deal and kristen, this mineral rights deal is a win-win for everyone. it will give us access to rare

earth minerals that we need and it would provide a level of security with ukraine and they would be in a partnership at that point and we will always defend our interests and investments. russia knows that. china knows that i iran and north korea knows that and that's an important message to send. >> the united states stands with its allies and what we saw there in the al office was the president and vice president berating. to put a fine point on this, is the united states abandoning ukraine? >> no. they're not abandoning ukraine. i was with the prd esident a da before this meeting and he was excited about this mineral rights deal and they believed it we all believed it it was in the best interest for the countries. i saw it the other way around. i saw zelenskyy stiff necked in the oval office instead of being gracious and saying thank you and looking for a way out of

this mess he did quite the opposite. that's why people, members of congress are frustrated. that's why the american people are frustrated abouthis. we have to stand for america's principles and america's priorities, and i think this would have accomplished all those things and it is unfortunate the way that it developed. >> mr. speaker, senator lindsey graham floated that president zelenskyy may need to resign in order for there to be a peace agreement, do you agree with that? >> something has to change. either he has to change and come to the table in gratitude or someone else needs to lead the country to do that. it's up to the ukrainians to figure that out. we are re-exerting peace through strength. president trump has brought back strength to the white house. we knew that this moment would come, we've worked hard for it to come and now it's here. we need the parties to go along with us and we need president

zelenskyy to do what's necessary. he's lost hundreds of thousands of people including women and children. i think our european allies are hoping that is the case and we are, as well. >> just to put a fine point on that, you are saying that it might be necessary for president zelenskyy to step down and not putin. do you want to see putin step down? >> i'd like to see putin defeated, frankly. he is an adversary of the united states. >> okay. >> but in this conflict, we have to bring an end to this war and it's in everybody's interest. >> i do want to talk about the big budget bill that passed through the house. your plan calls for $900 billion over the next ten years in cuts from the energy and commerce committee. as you know, it's going to be nearly impossible to reach that level of cuts without touching entitlements. i know you've been asked this before, mr. speaker, but i need to get you on the record, are

cuts to medicare, medicaid and social security off the table? >> yes. don't take my word for it, kristen. go do a word search of the budget resolution we passed on tuesday. there is not one mention of medicare, medicaid and social security. it's not in the bill because we have not set the policy. when we're trying to do is get america back on sound, fiscal ground. we have a $36 trillion federal debt and ballooning deficits. the republican party is a party of fiscal responsibility. the american people want us to review the expenditures of the country and get our fiscal house in order and that's what we must do. at the same time we have to extend the trump era tax cuts so we can make sure that every american doesn't reach the large of the tax increase. this very serious work. we can do both things simultaneously and not affect anyone eligible for those to receive them. you have inefficiencies. in medicaid there's an estimated

$50 billion a year that is lost in fraud alone. we've got to clean that up and the people want us to do it. that's what we're talking about. ensuring efficiencies, and ensuring that the programs are strengthened so that they can remain solvent and help the people they're intended to help. >> you say there won't be any cuts to entitlements, but on friday elon musk who president trump has, of course, put in charge of making cuts across the government calls social security, quote, the biggest ponzi scheme of all time. mr. speaker, is that a sign that social security is elon musk's next target? >> no. well, i've met with elon about this multiple times. we meet late into the night in his office and we've looked at that. when he's inding with as algorithms is enormous amounts of fraud, waste and abuse. >> so it is a target. >> the american people want us to -- >> no. no.

kristen, don't put words in my mouth, what i am saying is we have a moral responsibility to ensure that those programs are conducted in a way that does not allow for this massive fraud and abuse and that's what he is finding. he's finding, for example, that one social security number can be assigned to dozens or hundreds of people so that every time there's a check distribution it goes to all those different addresses, was there no safeguard in the existing software and the social security to prevent that from happening. that is outrageous and when these examples are presented to the american people they're going to be on the side of doge and elon and president trump and the republicans in congress and we look forward to cleaning that up. >> it's worth noting the social security administration's internal watchdog found 1% of benefit payments were improper. i do want to get to my question. >> don't believe it. >> okay. in two weeks there is a potential government shut down, mr. speaker. a lot of people worried about this, can you guarantee that the federal government will stay

open? >> we are working hard to do our responsibility to keep the government open. democrats have to help negotiate this and to this point shown no interest in finding a reasonable solution for that. we are looking to pass a clean cr to freeze funding to make sure the government stays open while we incorporate all these savings that we are finding through the doge effort and the sources of revenue that president trump's policies are bringing to the table, and then for fy-26, for the next fiscal year you will see a very different process and a lot more efficient and effective spending for the people and we look forward to that. >> mr. speaker, republicans control the white house, the house and the senate, isn't it on republicans to keep the government open and will you do so? >> well, the government funding is always bipartisan. you have to have partners on both sides of the aisle to do it, and we need our democrat colleagues to come to the table and be reasonable about that. they want to use government

funding as some sort of weapon against president trump and his administration and this is not the way this is supposed to work. republicans are going to do the responsible thing. we will do our duty and keep the government open and we're working in good faith, negotiate it in good faith with our colleagues in congress to get that done, and i hope everyone will come to the table and do their job. >> all right. covered a lot of ground today. house speaker mike johnson, thank you very much for joining us. we really appreciate it. >> thanks so much. good to be with you. >> great to be with you. when we come back, republican senator james lankford of oklahoma joins me next. ok, noah's going to make a fire. our job is to let him do it...by himself. what kind of wood you got there? gregggg! it is important to challenge young homeowners turning into their parents. -mm... -oh! -not a great start. -you got to turn it. you got to turn it. doesn't look structurally sound here. tom! they can't help themselves. -a fire starter?! -you know cavemen, they built fires with nothing

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because a dog at a healthy weight could live a longer, happier life. greg takes prevagen for his brain and this is his story. hi, i'm greg. i live in bloomington, illinois. i'm not an actor. i'm just a regular person. eight years ago, i just didn't feel like i was on my game. i started taking prevagen and i want people to know that prevagen has worked for me. give it a try. i want it to help you just like it has helped me. i've been taking prevagen for eight years now and it is still helping me tremendously. prevagen. for your brain. welcome back. joining me now is republican senator james lankford of oklahoma. senator lankford, welcome back to "meet the press "qwest. >> thanks.

good to see you again. >> great to see you. you have been a longtime supporter of defending ukraine. in fact, in 2022 you co-sponsored legislation that called for the u.s. to protect ukraine, quote, before, during and after the invasion. based on what you witnessed in the oval office, senator, are you concerned that the united states is turning its back on ukraine? >> no. we're not turning our back on ukraine nor should we. putin is a murderous kgb thug that murders his political enemies and is a dictator there, and so we've seen this. we've seen his aggression. countries around him have seen this. obviously the ukrainian people have seen that. the challenge is now we are at a stalemate and this is a world war i-like trench warfare and it is good to be at least a pause and when i hear president trump saying over and over and say we need to get to a stop in fighting and find a resolution. zelenskyy is rightfully concerned that putin has -- he's

ever signed. we need to get these two folks at the table, get to some kind of resolution to something that may look like north and south korea for a long time and have a line where people are looking at each other, but not an act of war. >> as you know, extraordinarily the kremlin is cheering what it saw in the oval office. let me ask you about something i just discussed with speaker johnson which is senator lindsey graham has said that president zelenskyy may need to resign in order for this peace process to move forward. what say you, senator? do you think president zelenskyy might need to resign? >> i don't agree. i'm not interested in calling on the resignation of world leaders. i didn't like it when chuck schumer asked for netanyahu to be removed and i didn't like it for zelenskyy to be removed and

i think it would spiral it into chaos trying to figure out who would lead it to peace. if you remember the press conference in the oval office on president, it started with president trump saying he is a friend of zelenskyy. they've had good conversations and there are obviously differences whwhere zelenskyy wants more in the way of some kind of security guarantees. the united states is not willing to be able to put troops on the ground. we're not willing to do that, but president trump obviously met with zelenskyy first. everyone was saying he was talking with president putin and that's a clear sign of where he is and stands on this, but he wants to get both sides to the table and get an end to the fighting and the death. >> a lot of people are thinking about the bigger implications of this moment. are you concerned that what happened in the oval office, the fact that the united states sided with russia and north

korea in that u.n. vote, for example, the fact that president trump accused zelenskyy of starting this war, could that be sending a signal to china that it has a green light to invade taiwan? >> no. it sure should not. china somehow received that, they're receiving the exact wrong message as the united states stands with its ally in that region and we want to have peace and relationships all across that region, but china should not misread this at all. when president trump is trying to do is trying to get both sides to the table and this is an interesting challenge that has not been done in the last three years to be able to get both sides and figure out to get a stop to the fighting and be able to keep the fighting stopped and that's the next part that's the next challenge. >> it is. we'll have to see if these talks get back on track. i do want to switch gears and talk about the budget bill. you just heard me discussing

that with the speaker, as well. what passed e house deals with the president's deportation plan. it extends the 2017 trump tax cuts. the argument that the speaker of the house republicans are making is that in order to get tax cuts done, the best chance is to do it together in this what is called a big, beautiful bill. do you agree? would you commit to voting for the bill as it stands? >> well, no one has actually seen the bill as it stands. when we have right now is the budget framework. it's just a we should sit down and start making a plan. it is a very general statement of their we need to preserve our tax cuts and we need to reduce spending and let's figure out how to be able to do that so there is no real plan on the table at this point. that was literally step one on it and the key things we've already outlined some of them and we need to have border security. what's been lost this week in the multiple headlines out

there, we had a day this week where we had less than 200 people try to illegally cross that border. it was just a little over a year ago there were 12,000 people a day that were illegally crossing our border. so we've had a dramatic shift on what's happening in the southern border and there's a lot of work that's happening in trying to get the economy back on track and punish back on fentanyl coming across the border from the north, south and china. there are a lot of things in the air and it's trying to figure out what's the right thing and what stage is every part of the negotiation in. >> in terms of what may or may not be in the final package, some of your republican colleagues said they're not going to support legislation that cuts medicaid in any way. so senator, let me put this question to you, would you support a bill that makes cuts to medicaid or any other entitlement? >> so i heard the speaker mention this as well. no one's cutting benefits on

this, they're talking about how do you cut fraud. between medicare and medicaid, we have according to government records the government accountability office almost $100 million in fraud or waste or we don't know where it went. $100 billion is a lot of mono when is someone going to step n and fix that? that's a reasonable thing to do. if someone swipes your credit card a thousand miles away from you, you get a warning immediately that says, hey, someone's trying to use your card on that, but in the federal government you can have $100 billion in waste and no one notices year after year and that has to come to a stop and there are areas of efficiency owe this and that is for republican and democratic presidents that have workeded on for worked on for years and they have to work on it and not just talk about it. >> i have to ask you about a child in west texas died from

the measles this past week, tragically. senator, it's the largest outbreak in the state in nearly 30 years. the majority of those that are impacted were not vaccinated. measles was eliminated in 2000. senator, let me ask you, would you encourage your constituents to get vaccinated against the measles? >> will i? do i? i already do encourage. i have been vaccinated and my children, and what we've seen in some of these areas some of these are folks that don't agree with the vaccine and they have the right to be able to do it. some are in religious communities that don't believe in vaccines at all. i understand that, and we are respectful of that, but the measles has been around for a long time especially children and we are protecting children 1

years old and younger to get the vaccine and they're not eligible to get it because of their age at that point. what we're doing is trying to keep measles down to protect those that are vulnerable in those infants. >> i know we'll continue to all watch that closely. senator james lankford, i have a lot more questions if you, but we are out of time, but please come back soon. thank you for joining us. we appreciate it. >> you bet. good to see you. >> good to see you. when we come back, senator when we come back, senator bernie sanders joins me next. hey we're going big tonight let's go safety whoa!

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ask your doctor if kisqali is right for you. welcome back. joining me now is independent senator bernie sanders of vermont. senator sanders, welcome back to "meet the press." >> great to be with you. >> it's wonderful to have you back, senator. let me start with ukraine and that oval office meeting, the reaction continues to pour in, and you just heard me speak with house speaker mike johnson. he left the door open to the possibility that it may be necessary for president zelenskyy to resign in order to get to a broader peace

agreement. let me ask you this qution, do you think that president zelenskyy needs to resign in order for there tobacco be a p deal. >> i think that is a horrific suggestion. zelenskyy is leading a country trying to defend democracy against an authoritarian dictator, putin, who invaded his country, and i think millions of americans are embarrassed, are ashamed that you have a president of the united states who says that ukraine started the war, that zelenskyy is a dictator. he's got it exactly backwards. the people of ukukrainhave lost tens of thousands of soldiers. their cities are being bombed as we speak, and our job is to defend the 250-year tradition that we have of being the democratic leader of the world, not turn our backs on a struggling country that is

trying to do the right thing. >> i want -- we will continue to follow that, of course, senator. we have a lot to get to, so i'm going to talk about budget cuts and switch top beings here so we can get to that, as well. you heard speaker johnson argue that there's massive amounts of waste, fraud and abuse in entitlement programs like medicaid, medicare and social security. both medicare and medicaid made more than $100 billion in payment errors in 2023. let me ask you, senator, democrats were in charge for four years. should the democratic party have done more to address some of those issues with the insolvency of our entitlement programs? >> and trump was in power four years before that. look, if there is waste and fraud in the defense department which is the largest single

budget item that we fund, which has not been able to fulfill an independent audit in the last seven times where there's massive waste. we should go after waste, fraud and abuse over every government and no argument about that, but let us be very clear, what republicans are trying to do right now is to make massive cuts in medicaid. over $800 million. cuts in nutrition programs which feed hungry children. why are they doing that? because they want to be able to use those savings to provide over $1 trillion in tax breaks for the richest 1%, for the elon musks and the zuckerbergs and the bezoses of the view. in my view you don't take food away from children, health care away from struggling people to

give tax breaks for billionaires so we have waste and fraud in every agency of government? yes, we do. >> let me ask you about social security. you raised elon musk, senator. let me follow up with you on this very point because he's made some very pointed comments about social security. i referenced it earlier in the broadcast. this was to joe rogan. i'd like you to had are it and get your reaction on the other side. >> social security is the biggest ponzi scheme of all time. people are living way longer than expected, and there are fewer babies being born. so you have more people who are retired and live for a long time and get retirement payments so the future obligation, and however bad the financial situation is right now for the federal government it would be much worse in the future. >> senator, president trump says he's not going to touch social security. elon musk calls it a ponzi scheme. do you agree?

>> i think with musk other the wealthiest guy in the world is outrageous. that's a hell of a ponzi scheme when for the last 40 years social security has paid out every nickel to every eligible american, quite a ponzi scheme. what is, in fact, a problem is if we don't make reforms and improve the funding mechanism over the next nine years the social security trust fund which provides about 20% of the funding will go broke. so what we have got to do, and i think most americans agree, and i've just introduced legislation to do that, is you lift the cap on taxable income right now, musk with 400 billion has the same amount in the social security trust fund as someone making 170 million. if you lift that cap you can extend the solvency of social security for 75 years and you

can raise benefits. kristen, right now in america, half of elderly people are trying to get by on 30,000 a year, 22% on $15,000 a year. we've got to raise social security benefits. we've got to expand medicare to include hearing, dental and vision, not go after these programs which are so important for millions of our seniors. >> i want to talk about what you have been doing recently, senator. you've been criss-crossing the country, talking about, warning about what you say is an oligarchy in the united states. we are seeing video of that right here. some democrats argue the best action right now for the party to counter donald trump is to do nothing at all. democratic strategist james carville wrote this, roll over and play dead. allow the republicans to crumble beneath their own weight and make the american people miss us. senator, what say you? do you think that's a good idea?

>> no, i don't. in fact account the problem is the democrats have been playing dead for too many years. 60% of our people live paycheck to paycheck. we have more income and wealth inequality than we've ever had in the history of this country where the highest rate of childhood poverty and millions of seniors are struggling to heat their homes and put food on the table. i don't think you play dead. i think you stand up for the working class in this country and make the point that right now the trump administration is clearly an administration designed to represent the interest of the musks of the world and 13 of the people that he nominated to head agencies are billionaires. kristen, when abraham lincoln was at gettysburg where so many died anded died defending freedom he talked about america, where we have a government of the people, by the people and for the people.

what we have right now in washington, let me be very clear, is a government of the billionaire class, by the billionaire class and for the billionaire class and these guys want to get their greed -- their greed is uncontrollable. more tax breaks to billionaires, cuts to programs for the elderly, the children and the poor. we've got to fight back. that's what these trips to wisconsin and michigan will be about. >> senator, very quickly, we are just 12 days away from the potential government shutdown. house speaker mike johnson says democrats have a significant role to play to keep the government open. some mocrats are saying they're not going to vote for a spending bill that includes elon muck's cuts? will you? will you vote to leave it open if it inclcludesthose cuts? >> we don't have a bill right now, but last i heard the republicans controlled the white house, the house and the senate, and i hope they ent us with

a budget that works for the working people and not just the billionaires. >> senator bernie sanders, thank you very much. we appreciate it. good to see you. >> thank you. when we come back, are we (vo 1) when you really philosophize about it, there's one thing you don't have enough of, and that's time. time is a truly scarce commodity. when you come to that realization, i think it's very important to spend time wisely. and what better way of spending time than traveling, continuing to educate ourselves and broaden our minds. (vo 2) viking. exploring the world in comfort. when my doctor gave me breztri for my copd... things changed for me. breztri gave me... better breathing, symptom improvement, and reduced flare-ups. breztri won't replace a rescue inhaler for sudden breathing problems. it is not for asthma. tell your doctor if you have a heart condition or high blood pressure before taking it.

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welcome back. the oval office clash between presidents trump and zelenskyy, a rare public showdown in the white house, marked a significant shift in america's approach to an ally at war with russia. back in 1960 senator john f. kennedy joined "meet the press" with this warning about the soviet union and its growing influence. >> we've been living off our fat for the last three or four years militarily. the soviet union made the big breakthrough in missiles and they'll be ahead of us in those decisive weapons of war in the early '60s. it is true militarily and economically that it is true greater and scientifically and of the image they give to the world of the country. i do believe that in october 1960 we are the strongest power in the world, t the point

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welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news washington managing editor carol lee, julio vaqueiro, anchor of nottisia telemundo, stephanie murphy, and republican strategist brendan buck, former adviser to house speaker ryan and boehner. thanks to all of you for being here. a lot to get to. carol, you have been talking to your sources throughout the weekend, overnight, you have new reporting on what the thinking is behind the scenes at the white house about any potential path forward for a peace deal. it doesn't look good. >> no, and one of the things we learned in our reporting is administration officials feel there have discussions in the last 48 hours of potentially pausing aid to ukraine. it is not clear when this would

happen if the president were to make that decision or if there would be something else that would need to take place that would trigger it, but the fact that that is happening underscores this level of frustration within the administration with president zelenskyy. from president zelenskyy's perspective he sees president trump leaning more closely to russia than to ukraine. they don't know where this goes next. they say this was not a setup. they think it's still possible to deal with zelenskyy, but as one official said the ball is in zelenskyy's court. he needs to make it right. they don't know how to do that. speaker johnson outlined a potential road map for zelenskyy saying he needed to show more gratitude, apologize and sign the minerals deal, but where this goes from here we don't really know. the one thing i would add, kristen is president zelenskyy irritated president biden and we

reported in 2022 and they had a phone call and president biden lost his temper with zelenskyy and showed he wasn't showing much gratitude and the difference that was in private and support among americans of the pretty high. he was not trying to negotiate. >> i'm so glad you brought up that call because it does speak to the fact that president zelenskyy is someone who is defiant. he does not back down from these requests. there is a discussion, did he misread the room in the moment and press it too far and get under the skin of another president. i thought it was notable, what we heard from speaker johnson a road map about how relations could be repaired and opening the door to, yes, maybe he does need to step down, something initially floated by lindsey graham. >> there is a pretty big divide. peopople have clear views about

ukine as it relates to russia and people keeping up with what donald trump said before and i would put mike johnson in that category. they said things that the president wasn't willing to do, that russia was the enemy and we want to defeat them. what zelenskyy said in the oval office was remarkable and that was so offensive and these two men said the exact same thing and we're in a situation now where we are blaming an ally, a person who is fighting for the survival of the nation. we are piling on him because he stated the obvious, because that was todisrespectful for him and we are missing the bigger point. we need a resolution for this and donald trump's narcissism caused what happened here and i'm hoping donald trump's narcissism would bring us together and we need a resolution and donald trump wants a deal and i don't think that's the end of the story. >> that's the question, if he gets a deal will it all be forgiven, stephanie?

at the same time, the united states and ukraine watching, he will be meeting with the prime minister and holding meetings with other european leaders. what are the broader implications as the united states allies on the world stage watch this. they've expressed concerns could russia be looking on to go into neighboring nato nations, i should say? >> i think the allies and adversaries alike are looking at this and what is crystallizing for them is what an america fit foreign policy looks like and this is abandoning decades of what's given america competitive advantage on the world stage and that's the strength of the alliances built on shared, democrat ic values ad shared interests. we are trading that for short-short- short-term deals and relationships, whether you're an ally or adversary and that's shifting what people are thinking, and i think in

capitals all across the world leaders are trying to recalibrate to the new america. >> julio, how do you think this plays out and what are you watching for as we wait to see if these talks do get back on track? >> think the big question is, is this a major shift in american foreign policy or is president trump doing things differently to achieve what he wants peace in ukraine? the fact is i have been able to talk to ukrainian refugees that i met a few years ago and they express this hopelessness and fear that they don't know what's going to happen to their country. it's basically trapped between russia and the usa, and i feel like this uncertainty is shared by other allies. this is bigger than ukraine. this is about american allies and look at mexico and canada, neighbors, trading partners and they might be facing tariffs next week and a lot of uncertainty in the middle of this. >> fascinating to hear from refugees and the real world

impact that that blowup is having. carol, this is the backdrop as president trump prepares to address the nation tuesday night. what are you watching for? >> the president unsurprisingly will walk through as what he sees of his accomplishments over the past few weeks and during the first term. he'll have some of those, as well and we'll have what one official said were made for tv moments and the thing that i'm looking for is president trump told you right after he was elected that he won on the border and groceries. what does he say about the costs for americans that they're still dealing with that he promised to bring down on day one. >> the fact that he's not going to be able to say prices have come down. the fact that he will not be able to we are on the path to peace. what are the stakes tuesday might? >> think it's a very important night for president p, and i agree, he made two big promises,

fight inflation and fight immigration. consumer confidence and inflation might be coming up and deportation is not where he wants them to be yet. so he still has big challenges in front of him. >> higher than it was under the end of the biden administration, but not quite where he wants it to be. brendan, how do you see this unfolding? i anticipate he's going to tout the cuts that elon musk is carrying out, but it's a fine line he's got to walk there. >> yeah. we heard a lot this morning about waste, fraud and abuse and at the same time, the government and the president are talking about how to balance the budget and i would be interested how to outline that. it's frankly nonsense to balance the budget through waste, fraud and abuse and we're talking about improper payments and we had an almost $2 trillion deficit just this past year alone and there is no waste, fraud and abuse outline that they can outlaw. i am all for getting rid of

waste, fraud and abuse and there is such a disconnect to say we are going to balance the budget and never going to touch social security, medicare and medicaid and that's simply impossible and i think there's honesty, so take it with a grain of salt when they say they want to balance the budget. >> senator said it would not be touched. are democrats pushing back and have they found their voice in this moment yet? >> i think they're starting to find their voice and they have to get out of washington and get into their communities and this last election demonstrated that voters didn't feel democrats shared their concerns. having stood in front of town halls, your community, they'll tell you what they care about and the intensity with which they care about it as well as how to talk about it, those are all lessons that democrats can use as they try to understand the chaos of the federal agency

have on actual americans. we've been watching the town halls. before we go, a programming note, join us tuesday for special coverage of president trump's address for congress. coverage begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern on nbc news now and at 9:00 p.m. on nbc news. that is all for today. thank you all so much for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday it's "meet the press. ♪♪ ♪♪ a sunny disposition, but i had so much knee pain and foot pain, i wasn't that way anymore. i didn't know what to do. but then i'm driving down the street one

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