this sunday -- tariff turmoil. president trump reverses himself, pulling back some steep tariffs on america's largest trading partners, as markets plunge and fears grow a trade war will raise prices, cost jobs, and slow the economy. >> there will be a little

disturbance. we're okay with that. >> this is a very dumb thing to do. >> is the white house rethinking it's tariff policy? i'll talk to howard lutnick and steve kornacki will show us how the economy is reacting plus, the opposition. democrats navigate their role as the party out of power. >> america wants change, but there's a responsible way to make change and a reckless way, and we can make that change without forgetting who we are as a country and as a democracy. >> is the party divided over how to push backck against presiden trump? i'll talk to democratic senator elissa slotkin of michigan. and shifting alliances. after suspending military aid to ukraine, president trump considers backing away from nato. >> if they don't pay i'm not going to defend them. >> as some u.s. allies consider scaling back the intelligence they share with washington.

joining me are senior national security correspondent courtney kube, jonathan martin of politico, symone sanders townsend, former chief spokeswoman for vice president kamala harris, and marc short, former director of legislative affairs to president trump. welcome to sunday. it's "meet the press." >> announcer: from nbc news into in washington, the longest running show in history, this is "meet the press" with kristen welker. >> good sunday morning. a battle is brewing on capitol hill with the government set to run out of money in just six days. it comes on the heels of a volatile week from wall street to main street with confusion over president trump's shifting tariff policies, where spending cuts and uncertainty about the economy. the president and his allies have begun to warn some economic pain could be ahead for americans. >> tariffs are about making america rich again and making

america great again, and it's happening and it will happen rather quickly. there will be a little disturbance, but we're okay with that. it won't be much. >> on thursday, the president announced he was delaying 25% tariffs on many imports from mexico and some from canada for a month, with concerns mounting about the potential economic impacts of a wider trade war. this after target ceo warned consumers would likely see price increases over the next couple days and best buy's chief called price increases highly likely. across-the-board tariffs on two of america's three largest trading partners have been on and then off and on and off again with a whiplash effect for businesses and consumers. >> one day the tariffs are on, the next day they're off. right now the markets, as you know well, prefer stability. are you done going for those?

>> there will always be changes and adjustments. >> ceos want to see predictability. i have to speak with shareholders, i have to make plans for cap ex spending, i can't if it's one day off and then 25%. can you give us a sense of whether or not we are going to get clarity for the business community? >> well i think so. the tariffs could go up as time goes by, they may go up. i don't know if it's predictability. >> that's not clararity. >> top administration officials have started to hint some economic pain may be ahead. >> there's going to be a short period of time where there will be some high prices on certain products. it's not inflation. that's nonsense. >> could we be seeing this economy that we inherited starting to roll a bit? sure. and, look, there's going to be a natural adjustment as we move away from public spending to private spending. >> meanwhile, at the white house, frustrations growing behind the scenes amid reports

of a contentious cabinet meeting where secretaries, including rubio and duffy, clashed with elon mk. nbc news confirmed the account first reported by "the new york times," some challenged musk over his approach to cuts in their departments. >> with elon musk and clashes potentially with secretary rubio and duffy. >> no clash. i was there. you're a troublemaker. you're not supposed to be asking that question. we're talking about the world cup. elon gets along great with marco. there is no clash. >> the economy and concerns about high prices helped propel president trump to the oval office with mr. trump promising changege. >> from the day i take the oath of office, we will rapidly drive prices down and make america affordable again.

we're going to get yo energy prprices do by 50%. starting on day one, we will end inflation and make america affordable again. a vote for trump means your groceries will be cheaper. >> we're going to have prices down. i think you're going to see pretty drastic price deductions. >> the dizzying concerns about the health of the economy produced one of the worst weeks on wall street in months. steve kornacki is here to take us through all the numbers. steve, what are you seeing? and good morning. >> good morning, kristen. uneasy, volatile, unsettling, pick whatever additive you want. looking at the dow average here with all of the news, start last monday and look, see how the average has plummeted late monday, when trump made the announcement tariffs were coming. it continued on tuesday as the tariffs were imposed. reprieve for automakers, deferring tariffs in the markets did start to make upward

movement. on friday when you added in the jobs report, some folks on wall street feared it might be worst than it was, the market did close up a bit on friday. down significantly for the week. if we broaden this out, zoom out, and take a broder look at the trajectory of the market here, two things to high light here in terms of trump and his policies. this is the dow average between election daday d inauguration day, it was up, basically 4%. there was optimism on wall street about what trump would do as president, but since inauguration day, when donald trump began enacting policies, like we saw this week with tariffs, it's been a very different reaction from wall street. down more than a 1.5 since trump was inaugurated. to put that in further perspective, we can compare that number down 1.6% from inauguration to other modern presidents. the first couple months of their presidency, and, again, look at this, it was up 6% in trump's first term. look at all of these other presidents, clinton, both of his

terms, bush, it was up in all of these. the list continues here. you can go back to 1989 with george bush sr. pop that up and you see it went up with him. here it is. trump going down 1.6% in the first few months here. the only other negative number we've seen in modern times, i mean this is nowhere near in the same ballpark, but 20% when obama took over in '09, in the middle of the meltdown on wall street. that's the question, investors and their reaction and then the question of consumers as well. important to the economy. are they going to be tightening their wallets, spending? we got this indicator this week. the consumer confidence index, a monthly report, gauging the sentiment of consumers, and you see these numbers. it clocked in at 98.3 this month. the higher the number is, the more consumers are expressing optimism about the economy. it fell, you see here, the number fell 7 points in the last month. that decline, 7 points in one month, that is the biggest single month decline we've seen

in this index in four years. now there's debate about the exact relationship between consumer attitude and actual consumer spending, but again, add this into the mix with the other indicators and you can understand why folks on wall street and elsewhere are getting jittery these days, perhaps. >> absolutely. steve kornacki starting us off this morning. thank you so much. >> thank you. and joining me now is commerce secretary howard lutnick. secretary lutnick, welcome to "meet the press." >> great to be here. >> it is great to have you here m secretary. let's start with this past week. as you know, for the second time in two months, president trump announced and then walked back tariffs on canada and mexico. the whiplash causing confusion on wall street and main street as well. does the president have a responsibility to businesses and consumers to spell out his plan and then stick to it? >> you have to remember, this is

a drug-related issue. you've got fentanyl pouring into this country, killing 75,000 americans, autopsies, and the president thinks it's many, many more, because multiples more, so it's important for the president to talk to the leaders of both canada and mexico, get th to shut the border, shut the fentanyl coming into the country, and, of course, he's going to be on the phone with them. of course he's going to talk to them. he is a dealmaker. the greatest deal maker in the world, so he makes better deals. he's gotten the border closed, fentanyl to be shut down. he put tariffs on china who makes the precursors. this is the way you run the country. shut the border, get our neighbors to do their jobs. it's not only us who has to do their job. why are our neighbors, who live and breathe, not taking care of america? >> mr. secretary, one death from fentanyl is too many. i think everyone agrees with that. fentanyl coming across any

border is unacceptable on any level. it is worth noting, that less than 1% comes over the canadian border. 97% come over the border from mexico. if this is the crisis you just laid out, why is president trump hitting the pause button? why not go full with this? >> well, what he did, remember, what he did was, we have a deal with canada and mexico called u u.s.-mexico-canada agreement, usmca. that says if there's a certain amount of american product in those products and it's done a certain way, they can trade with america tariff-free. meeting in the middle with these leaders who said they're going to do mu more on the border, they're going to do everything they possibly can to end fentanyl, the president said okay, tell you what, if they're in the deal that we made, i'll keep it tariff-free. for everybody outside that deal, who took the risk, didn't pay attention and respect the agreements that president trump

made his first term, they're going to pay a 25% tariff. that's sort of like meeting in the middle. he gave automakers relief, computer makers relief, the major industries got relief. everybody who is outside that agreement, they're going to pay and canada and mexico promised they're going to crush the border and they're going to crush fentanyl and that's what our president here's to do, to stop fentanyl killing americans. >> mr. secretary, let me ask you about what the fed chair jerome powell had to say on friday. he said, quote, we're still very uncertain about what will be tariffs, for how long, and at what level. can you provide some clarity, mr. secretary? are these tariffs going to be temporary or permanent? >> so, the tariffs that we've started with mexico, canada and china, that was the month of march. these are fentyl-related border-related. china makes the ingredients for fentanyl.

it's got to stop. president xi offered president trump in 2019, he put the death penalty on anybody who made the ingredients for fentanyl. instead, we've gotten in 2025, china is subsidizing the production of fentanyl. maximum subsbsidy avlable in china to make the ingredients to kill americans. i mean, this is -- president trump is honest, and he is powerful on it and he's not going to step off the gas. if you are talking about the drug war, let's focus on the drug war and when you want to talk about april 2nd, that's going to be reciprocal tariffs, and i'm happy to talk about that. let's keep those two different. >> understood. 's not going to take his foot off the gas. does that mean these are permanent tariffs? can you provide clarity? yes or no? >> if fentanyl ends, i think these will come off. but if fentanyl does not end, or he's uncertain about it, they will stay this way until he is

comfortable. this is black and white. you got to save american lives, so with respect to fentanyl, this is about the border and fentanyl and that's an agreement between the president and the two leaders of canada -- of course, justin trudeau has a lot to say, he's leaving in like days, so it's not really that fun to listen to some guy trying to create sort of a mess for canada, which he's trying to do. president claudia sheinbaum did a much more calm and thoughtful conversation with president trump and that's why this is the result, she was able to negotiate it, because she said sent a that you sand more to the border. >> it's a little bit of a to-do list. president trump previously announced 25% tariffs on steel and aluminum imports. are those still going to take effect wednesday? yes or no? >> yes. >> okay. are the 250% tariffs against canada on dairy and lumber

coming this week? if so, when? >> i think that -- those reactions, the changes usmca and beyond, they start on april 2nd. on april 2nd, we are going to revisit, again, the fentanyl issues and we are going to revisit, again, the trade, the general trade issues of reciprocality. remember, canada is supposed to have a free trade agreement with us. 250% on dairy products. it's outrageous. the president is going to respond to it. he's agreed not to respond until april 2nd. >> so no tariffs this week in that regard. we'll wait until april 2nd to see those as it relates to dairy. the ceos of target and best buy this week warned that they will have to increase prices as a result of tariffs. do you acknowledge that prices will go up for consumers because of these tariffs? >> i think it's important for

people to realize we run $2 trillion deficits and donald trump is going to try to balance the budget of the united states of america. when you balance the budget of the united states of america, you drive interest rates down 150 basis points. 1.5%. you will have mortgages come smashing down. the cost of your home will come smashing down. we're going to drill, baby, drill and drive down the price of energy. that's coming down. so these two massive moves are going to happen. you know who is going to pay for that? tariffs, outside countries which leech off of us, le on us, earn money off of us. they have to start to pay. i want -- president trump wants the american people to understand the external revenue service should start to pay. yes, some products made foreign might be more expensive, but american products will get cheaper. that's the point. buy american, made by great americans. we're going to brg manufacturing back. that's where we're going.

that's where this president is going. bring it back. will there be distortions? of course. foreign goods may get a little more expensive but american goods are going to get cheaper and you're going to be helping americans by buying american. >> you take me to my next question. i want to play something that president trump said to me back in december. take a listen. >> i win on groceries. simple word, groceries. like almost -- i started using the word. the groceries. when you buy apples, when you buy bacon, when you buy eggs, theywere double and triple the price over a short period of time. i won an election based on that. we're going to bring those prices way down. >> mr. secretary, can you be specific, when exactly can americans expect to see those prices come way down? >> egg prices up 200% under biden. biden just killing chickens

trying to worry about things. it's crazy the way eggs have gone up 200%. donald trump's going to bring the price of eggs down now. donald trump's tariffs are -- here's the idea. all these other countries like india, for instance, when modi was in town, 1.4 billion people, and they won't buy a bushel of our corn, europe, always blocking our farmers. as our farmers can sell more and more overseas, you're going to see the price of food in america come down. >> when? >> it's a lume -- >> when? months? >> the deal starts april 2nd. the deal starts april 2nd of reciprocal tariffs. the president is going to negotiate country by country, going to drive down other country barriers, unleashing our farmers, ranchers, and our fishermen. they're going to explode in value and the prices of american produce, grown crops, produce and fish, are going to come down because our american industries are going to win around the

world. finally, finally donald trump behind them, protecting them. he's got their back. he's going to make them winners. all of america will be winners because these prices are coming down and the process starts april 2nd. >> all right. mr. secretary, consumer sentiment is dropping, inflation has ticked up, major banks like jp morgan and goldman sachs now say a recession in the next 12 months is becoming more likely. should americans brace for a recession? >> absolutely not. anybody who bets against donald trump -- it's like the same people who thought donald trump wasn't a winner a year ago. donald trump is a winner. he's going to win for the american people. that's just the way it's going to be. there's going to be no recession in america. what there's going to be is global tariffs are going to come down because president trump has said, you want to charge us 100%, we're going to charge you 100%. you know what they say, no, no, no, don't charge us 100%.

we'll bring ours down. we'll unleash america out to the world. grow our economy in a way we've never grown before. you're going to see over the next two years the greatest set of growth coming from america as americans -- you saw it, 1.3 trillion of new investment coming into america. think of all those jobs. and remember, each trillion of investment in america, is 1% of growth gdp. so donald trump is bringing owth to america. i would never bet on recession. no chance. >> all right. that's about as definitive that you can be. no recession in america. you heard it here first. let me ask you about this meeting you attended at the white house this week where elon musk and a group of cabinet members clashed reportedly over the approach that elon musk is taking to slashing government. can you tell me, mr. secretary, what was the president's message to you and other secretaries at the conclusion of that meeting? was it that you are in charge, other secretaries are in charge,

of making that final decision about who and what will be cut and not elon musk? >> well, what the president made clear to the cabinet secretaries and elon, and we all agree with him, we agreed with him before the meeting, after the meeting, and during the meeting, was let's make sure when we're cutting we're keeping the greatest people who work for the government. there are amazing people. i mean the commerce department, i've met some amazing people. these people are extraordinary and they're giving of themselves for america. we've got to cut the size of government. government has grown insanely. we've got to cut the size of this government. the president's advice and guidance was, let's be super sharp, let's make sure we cut with a scalpel, let's be sharp, let's be clear, and let's make sure we do it right. we all agreed -- the cabinet is one on the topic. we have the greatest technologist in the world, the greatest technologist in the world, comes to the meeting wearing a t-shirt that says "i'm

tech support." imagine you have the greatest technologist in the world coming to help you. how great is that? >> just to put a fine point on it, who did the president say was in charge, you and the cabinet secretaries or elon musk? >> he is in charge. let's be crystal clear, he did not tell me i'm in charge. >> but of your agency, who is in charge of your agency? >> we listen to him. >> who is in charge of your agency, you or elon musk? >>. >> elon musk is your partner. he's your partner in technology, he's your partner in thought, he's your partner in doing what president trump made clear, is that elon is your partner. that is what we like. you have the greatest businessman and greatest technologist in the world, as my partner. you have to ask me what do i think? thank god, i would have elon musk come and help me, there's no one watching this tv right now who if elon musk said he was going to come to their house and

help them, wouldn't cheer. you have the best technologist and richest guy in the world help you, come on, we want his help. >> secretary lutnick, thank you so much. really appreciate your insights and information this morning. thank you for joining us. >> my pleasure. thanks for being here. >> when we come back, democratic senator elissa slotkin of michigan joins me next. a chewy order is on the way for radar, who hears everything. and that sound means chewy is en route. ear wipes. kibble. squeaky lamb. [mom]: it's almost chewy time! [parrot]: chewy! and that's echo — [parrot]: chewy! whose favorite seed is also on the way. at prices mom loves. because two pets means twice the savings. [parrot barks] for low prices and fast shipping. for life with pets, there's chewy. baby: liberty! mom: liberty mutual is all she talks about since we saved hundreds by bundling our home and auto insurance.

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and that's time. time is a truly scarce commodity. when you come to that reization, i think it's very important to spend time wisely. and what better way of spending time than traveling, continuing to educate ourselves and broaden our minds. (vo 2) viking. exploring the world in comfort. welcome back. and joining me now is democratic senator elissa slotkin of michigan. senator slotkin, welcome back to "meet the press." >> thanks for having me. >> thank you so much for being here. you, of course, delivered the response to president trump's joint address. it's a big week for you, so we appreciate you making time to be with us this morning. i want to start on tariffs, president trump has said that one e of the goals of the tarif is to bring back manufacturing

to the u.s., which is, of course, incredibly critical to a state like yours of michigan. you have been critical of president trump's approach, but i wonder, senator, would you support tariffs and using them to bring back manufacturing to your state? >> yeah, you know, i think -- most of us aren't against tariffs full-stop, right. i think tariffs is an important tool in the toolkit. i think it's just the way he's handling tariffs is the way he's handling everything else right now. we want change, but there's reckless change and then there's responsible change. the way that he's on again, off again, you know, pounding canada as if they're the exact same thing as china, it just creates this chaotic feeling and michigan is probably going to be one of the most affected states in the entire country between our manufacturing sector and our farmers. i'm not t againsit in principle, especially against china, but canadians? as the state that for our farmers that's our number one

market is canada. i just want a scalpel and not a sledgehammer for these things. >> just to be clear, you oppose the tariffs against canada and what about mexico? >> so i think, look, especially the way secretary lutnick was just talking about fentanyl, i just want to be clear, we're a couple miles from the u.s.-canada border right now. the fentanyl coming over the canadian border last year totalled 43 pounds. total. that's a different thing than what's going on-to-southern border. we know how to manage our border, provide security for our border. we've been doing it seamlessly for years. so i just think this is what i mean, like, mexico, we have a fentanyl problem with fentanyl coming in from china through mexico. with canada, that, to me, is a completely different story. just be specific and thoughtful about these things. >> president trump who did win your state of michigan, is making sweeping cuts to the federal government as you well know.

you heard me talk about that with secretary lutnick. i want to play part of your response to the president's joint address this week. take a look. >> you want to cut waste? i'll help you do it. but change doesn't need to be chaotic or make us less safe. >> where are you willing to work with this administration, senator, to find those cuts, to make the government more efficient? >> yeah. i mean, i worked in the pentagon, the cia. i did a rotation over at the state department. i think if you ask anyone in, you know, sort of without the cameras on, okay, in each department is there fat, yeah, right. we know there is. are there missions that are outdated that we could cut, maybe like cold war missions that have just endured? yeah. i think that people who know these organizations would be happy to show you where that fat is and if you said to a department or agency, you know, you have to cut 10%, 15%, whatever, and then you actually do it so that you're not making

americans less safe. i think what we have right now is this kind of reckless approach, which is kind of putting all the information from these agencies into some artificial intelligence empowered software, figuring out keywords, cutting and pasting people, and it's not reflective of the missions of who they're supposed to be serving and keeping safe. i think about the va. cutting the va and some of the proposals i've seen are going to hurt service to veterans. let's agree that that's a bad idea. bipartisan. it's a bad idea to do that. so i think there are ways to do it, and, again, i would be -- i mean i certainly, when i was at the pentagon, could tell you places in that place that i would have cut if i had the power to do it. this approach makes us less safe. >> senator, democrats were in charge for four years. you were in congress at the time. why didn't democrats do more to cut government spending when they were in charge?

>> yeah. i think what we have right now, i mean, i think if i can just be blunt about it, is, you know, we have a situation where the politics are so broken between democrats and republicans, that what seems logical, right, people getting in a room and saying, look, we have to live within our means. we can't spend as much and we can't cut, you know, the money coming into the household, to the deral budget by millions and millions. we have to make the balance work. neither party trusts the other one, right. democrats are saying i'm not going to cut spending until you don't give those tax breaks to those very, very wealthy people. the republicans say the same thing. we're not going to change until you change. debt is out of control.n where so, to me, i think you're right, that both parties need to do better and act like adults and get in a room and shut out twitter and the media and actually deal with our deficit, our debt. >> well, let's talk about how your party reacted to president trump's joint address this week.

the house has now censured congressman al green because he interrupted, was jeering at the president. you served in the house, senator slotkin, would you have voted to censure congressman green for his behavior? >> you know, look, i think, to me, there's so much frustration with the trump administration, there's so much concern, that what you saw was sort of the emotion and wanting to be visible. it's not personally the way i reacted. you saw my speech. i have a different approach. i think what i try to focus on is, like, we can't just be against something. we have to be for something. what do we want to do? what do democrats want to do that's different >> how do we hear the fact that the country wants change? we want something different. and offer an alternative vision. so look, i know congressman green and it was clearly something he felt very passionately. it's just not my number one like

go-to approach. >> in his first episode of his podcast, another big figure in your party, california, governor gavin newsom brought on republican strategist charlie kirk who asked newsom about the debate over transgender athletes. let's take a listen to a little bit of that conversation. >> would you say no men in female sports? >> i think it's an issue of fairness. i agree on that. it is an issue of fairness. i revere sports and the issue of fairness is completely legit. >> do you agree with governor newsom? >> well, look, i think, you know, you'll have to talk to mr. newsom and his podcast and we're all talking about it now because, you know, good controversy. for me, i mean, i grew up playing three seasons of sports, in michigan sports is our religion, right. i wouldn't be here without the leadership training that i got in women's sports. and -- but for me it's like let the local community figure this out, right. in michigan we have a process in

place where if someone who is born a boy wants to play in women's sports you have to get a waiver. we've had it happen two times in our entire state. so let the local communities like everything with schools, handle that issue. for me, though, i think, you knknow, this issue is being sor of brought up in order to make sparks and see sparks fly. >> two quick questions. we're almost out of time. since you delivered the democratic response this week, a lot of eyes on you, senator. who would you say is the leader of the democratic party right now? >> look, i mean, i -- people know me. i'm pretty straightforward. i don't think it's a secret that democrats have been on their heels since trump won the election, right. i don't think that's a -- you know, something hidden. i think it's on us to be clear about not only leadership -- and there's lots of leaders in both parties -- but also a strategy, right. i think that's something that,

as trump has been successful in flooding the zone and like every day, 15 things happening, we are still finding our footing, and i think you can't get better until you admit you have a problem. for me, that's one of the things that i think some of the new voices in the party have really been agitating about, new senators, new representatives, new folks like, hey, we need to do more and we need to be showing that we're actually having a plan to stand up on really important moments of inflection. that's what i'm trying to do from within. >> well, finally, as you well know, the government is poised to run out of money on friday. the house did release the text of their bill to keep the government open. will you vote yes to keep the government open, senator? do you support this bill? >> well, we just got the bill yesterday, so we're still looking through it. it has to go through the house. they have tight margins in the house. we'll see if it can get through. i think the fundamental point, as i approach this is, the

president has been deciding how to spend the money any way he wants, even when we have a budget that both democrats and republicans voted on. that's a constitutional issue. everyone knows congress has the power of the purse. so i just -- until i see some assurances that whatever we pass next week is going to ensure that the money is spent the way congress intends, i'm going to -- i'm going to withhold my vote until i see that. >> we'll follow up with you. senator slotkin, thank you so much for joining us after a big week. appreciate all of your insights, all of your answers in conversation this morning. great to see you. when we come back, is president trump's cabinet reaching a breaking point with elon musk? the panel is nex t. tracey from lillie's of charleston will watch 60 contestants eat 60 hot wings all covered in lillie's hot sauce oh honey, don't touch your face

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(other money manager) your clients really come first then, huh? fisher investments: yes. we make them a top priority, by getting to know their finances, family, health, lifestyle and more. (other money manager) wow, maybe we are different. (fisher investments) at fisher investments, we're clearly different. welcome back. the panel is here. nbc news senior national security correspondent courtney kube, columnist for politico, symone sanders-townsend, marc short, director of legislative affairs. thank you for being here. jonathan, let me kick it off with you. after this week of whiplash over

president trump's tariffs, you heard secretary of commerce howard lutnick basically defend the strategy. what do you make of where we are right now, and did the commerce secretary say anything that will calm markets tomorrow? >> welcome to wall street. get used to it. day to day, hour to hour. the tariff regime, some on, some off. this was the week, kristen, wall street woke up. wall street snapped out of its denialism. there was a sense, i think, among a lot of investors in the aftermath of the election, when they were riding the trump bump, that we are back. we have a deregulatory conservative pro-market, pro-business president. that was fantasy. that is not donald trump. he is not from "the wall street journal". he is somebody who does deeply believe in tariffs, not just on fentanyl or drug inflow, he believes fundamentally in the tariffs. it's the best word in the english language. i think this was a sort of seminole week on wall street,

and it's not going to change. by the way, it isn't just the tariffs. it's the uncertainty about elon and the role of the federal government. that involves contracts with the private sector. so business is paralyzed on hiring, on investing. they don't know what to do going forward. >> marc, it's interesting, jonathan hits an important point, presidet trump has loved tariffs long before he was president. this was a part of his first term, but it looks different than his first term, right? >> very different. i think the reality is the tariff agenda is a huge wet blanket on the economy. to the point, the markets assumed trump 2.0 would be like trump 1.0. it's different. the reality, after the biden administration's over regulation of the economy, markets initially were excited. i think of a deregulatory agenda. this administration would continue and extend tax relief. if democrats had taken any chamber of commerce that

wouldn't happen. there was excitement. this tariff agenda he has surrounded himself now in a second administration with true accolades and disciples who believe in tariff policy. you heard secretary lutnick say, the president said this specifically ithe state of the union, april 2nd is the date. it's not just reciprocity tariffs. it's copper, it's steel, it's aluminum, it's on the eu. he's setting the predicate for a significant protection straight agenda. >> symone, pick up on that point. you heard senator slotkin say, i'm not opposed to all tariffs. >> some tariffs are good. i mean, just to be clear, some of the tariffs from the first trump administration, president biden kept in place. >> absolutely. >> on china. earlier today, i did double duty, i did my show earlier today and we had a business owner on who they manufacture -- they sell camping gear and based in san francisco, but they have their products they manufacture in klein and they're in rei. it's a camping thing. the gentleman said he is going to have to raise his prices. i said, well why?

he said because of the tariffs. we're going to have to raise our prices to absorb the costs of the tariffs. it's going to cost him $20,000 more to make what he is making because of the costs it's going to take to get into the country. that is the reality here of the situation. americans are going to start feeling this a lot more. i just -- it's -- it's -- people talk about the stock market and what not. the president pays attention to the stock market. i heard secretary lutnick talk about gdp and how it will add to gdp. folks in kenosha, wisconsin r not necessarily looking at the stock market. they're looking at their pocketbook and prices and what will affect them most. >> courtney, all this comes against the backdrop of the tensions between elon musk, who is charged with slashing the federal government and the cabinet secretaries, i asked secretary lutnick about that, he wouldn't go so far as to say look, bottom line, the president said we're all in charge of our own agencies, but what are you hearing about what came out of that? >> that's right. this is the first time we've

heard frustrations that frankly have been in place for several weeks now are actually boiling over. what i was struck by, they boiled over in front of president trump. in this case there were several cabinet secretaries who confronted elon musk on thursday about the way that doge is doing these firings. it's not just the firings in general, but how they are doing it, cutting thousands of employees, some cases having to bring some of them back, because they are not taking into account employees' performance or some of the critical nature of the jobs they're doing. that was really at issue here. now, the -- this is something that republicans have been concerned about. that's why elon musk met with them wednesday night on the hill. they met for two hours. but at the end of the day, elon musk still has a lot of authority. what we did see out of this cabinet meeting was, president trump said look, the secretaries have the authority to make their own firings here, but if you don't do enough, doge will step in. remember, most of thes secretaries will do enough. i will say, the president also walked out of it saying elon

musk is doing an amazing job. i think his -- his role as -- his role as first buddy is probably still safe. >> i think that's probably -- >> secretaries, if there's one more aviation accident, guess who gets blamed for that? sean duffy. it's also politics for the cabinet secretaries too because they have skin in the game here. if there's a crisis or an accident on their watch and their weighing, elon doesn't take the hit. they do. >> i think for republicans, we're $36 trillion in debt. i think a lot of americans voted for donald trump because they wanted this man to clean up government. i think in a lot of ways this is good. the big question i have is, you know, thursday, friday, we're going to have a vote on a continuing resolution that will be funding government at its current levels. refunding the things that elon musk and doge has been cutting. i think congress needs to codify these cuts if we want them more permanent than a show. >> what was put out last night, there are a lot of things zeroed out, the cops program for police, the toxic waste program

that was for veterans who were affected by burn pits and what not. zeroed out. many programs, 22 line items zeroed out. i think the situation on the cuts, what elon musk has cut, though, has not yet been identified, if it was waste or abuse or fraud. he's firing people indiscriminately. just today, rfk jr. is going to give $25,000 to people. i don't think they've said any money, is my point, which is not what americans voted for. >> we will continue this conversation. guys stick around. more of the panel, when we come back, president reagan was the first to call for abolishing the department of education. why he changed his have you always had trouble with your weight? me too. discover the power of wegovy®. with wegovy®, i lost 35 pounds. and some lost over 46 pounds. and i'm keeping the weight off. i'm reducing my risk.

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welcome back. president trump is considering an executive order which would abolish the department of education, though as a federal department, it cannot be eliminated without congressional approval. but mr. trump is not the first president to push for its removal. ronald reagan also tried to scrap the education department, but he later backed down citing lack of support in congress.

reagan's education secretary william bennett joined "meet the press" to explain. >> as i've said to conservatives in the past six months, if we're elected we ought to govern and govern gressively. the president nine months ago said he changed his mind about the department and didn't think we needed to get rid of it anymore, it wasn't bothering anybody any more. i wou say now it's bothering the right people. >> you have said sometimes republicans seem to think that you just don't need to spend money on education. what did you mean by that? >> well, we are, as a nation, going to spend more money. americans like to spend more money on education. when we put forward our budget proposals and admittedly on some occasions we asked for reduction, congress rejected them. the american people want to spend more, but what we know it's not spending more, it's what you spend it on. if we spend it on the right things in those inner cities and poor schools we'll get results. spend it on the wrong thing which the special interest want us to do we're to the going to get there. >> when we come back, president trump floated the idea of

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are you making any changes where nato countries get the tax but they're not paying enough

dues so the united states doesn't defend them? >> i've said if you're in the going to pay we're not going to defend. i said that seven years ago and because of that, they paid hundreds of billions of dollars. if you're not going to pay your bills we're not going to defend you. >> welcome back. panel still here. courtney, that was an extraordinary moment in the oval office because the president was basically confirming your exclusive reporting that if nato countries don't pay their percentage of gdp, that the united states will not defend them. that's one of the things the president is considering. overnight you reported that the president wants to see more than just a mineral deal in order to reinstate military aid and intelligence sharing. what do you know? >> that's right. on nato it's not just about article 5 the president is considering. there is a consideration by the trump administration for a full change in how the u.s. supports nato going forward. basically they would potentially calibrate their support going forward to the countries that pay enough in their defense spending.

nato, for the past decade or so, said 2% of a country's gdp should go to defend. the trump administration said we want that to be 5%. for the record the u.s.pays 3.9%. the u.s. is not at that level. but some countries are stepping up. lithuania has pledged to make 5%. if they -- these countries do not meet this new threshold, the trump administration may pull troops out of their countries, may not participate in exercises with them. it comes as we also learned that some of these close u.s. allies, the closest u.s. allies in intelligence sharing, are considering scaling back some of their sharing. at issue is they are very concerned about what they see as a more conciliatory tone towards russia and they are worried that could expose some of their foreign assets and that's sank cra sank in the intelligence world. >> article 5, other countries had to come to the aid of allies, was after 9/11. in the clip you played, i don't know if they would come to our defense. they have. that's why so many people are

distressed, if you will, in the national security community about what they're hearing from the president and this administration. >> my colleagues at politico europe had a story overnight about the possibility of europeans creating their own intelligence sharing because they can't rely, i think they're realizing, they can't rely on the u.s. as a steady partner as they have for the last 80 years because donald trump is not committed to the transatlantic alliance, donald trump is more invested in a great powers type geopolitical structure in which big countries like the u.s., russia and china, are effectively the decider who does wwhat. >> i think the first administration, president trump was actually very effective at getting nato partners to pay up and deserves credit for that. where we are today, though, is i think a lot who do not believe that russia is the same threat and do want to walk away from nato but they make the argument because klein china is our numb adversary. i'm concerned also that so far -- >> do you agree with that --

>> the tariffs on china, our posture has been weak. the president defied the law on tiktok and sent signals we're not going to defend taiwan. if the strategy was to say we need to focus on the pacific, chairtbly some may y agree with that but what's the evidence we're doing that? >> a lot of opposition to everything we're discussing here from democrats. i thought it was notable senator slotkin acknowledged democrats are on their heel, didn't name who she thought was the leader of the democratic party. where are democrats right now, particularly in the wake of what we saw at the address? >> i would agree i think democrats are on their heels. i think it would be a lie to say that democrats are on solid footing here. but maybe on their heels is a good place to be because they're in a fight position. i reject this idea that you got to name a leader. the people, the last time donald trump was in office and there was all this groundswell, it wasn't led by democratic elected officials. it was led by the peoople in e streets, same people you're seeing coming to town halls,

democrats and republicans. the democrats have to be responsive. they want be the thermostat but they need to tap in to being the thermometer. >> i mean, the reality is, it was the angry old man al green shaking the cane. >> for medicaid. >> plays into what trump wants. >> a reason jeffries told his house democrats don't do that because he knew the image would be a gift to trump and they did it anyways. >> courtney. >> one thing about elissa slotkin's speech that stuck out to me, frankly, given her background as a cia analyst, pentagon official, when she talked about ronald reagan rolling over in his grave because of that meeting with president zelenskyy in the oval office. she knows what she's talking about and that stuck out to me because she knows the importance of complicated allies and that the alternative is worse than dealing with the complicated ally. >> fantastic conversation, everyone. thank you so much for being here. that is all for today. thank you for watching. we will be back next week because if it's sunday, it's "meet the press."

a small plane goes down in a residential area of pennsylvania in a fiery crash. and incredibly, everyone survived. five people on board now being treated at area hospitals, as the ntsb and faa investigate what happened. house