i'm mariano ruiz and i'm a meg whitman success story. captioning funded by cbs and ford-- built for the road ahead. >> the fight you will see is brutal, the intensity unlike anything we've seen in nine years of covering this war. u.s. soldiers are locked in a never-ending battle with an enemy that just keeps coming. are the men you're facing committed? >> they're more committed than any i have ever seen. one day we killed 31 of them. we could see them dying on the hills, and we were engaging them and we were killing them. and they kept charging us. >> if 9/11 happens again, i want to be the first to die.

it's my duty as an american muslim to stand between you, the american nonmuslim, and the radicals who are trying to attack you. >> pelley: his plan to build an islamic center near ground zero set off a national uproar and outcry to stop it. but we found the plans are well on their way, and the islamic prayer space at the heart of the fury is already open. >> before a game, a lot of nfl quarterbacks stay by themselves collecting their thoughts. not drew brees. he's the one stoking the fire, a task usually performed by someone much bigger and more intimidating. ( chanting ) >> he's a fierce competitor and the most accurate passer in the nfl. we asked him for a demonstration.

you'll see the results tonight. >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm bob simon. >> i'm morley safer. >> i'm lara logan. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories and andy rooney tonight on the season premier of "60 minutes." at northern trust, we understand... that while you may come from the same family... you know, son, you should take up something more strenuous. you have different needs and desires. - i'm reading a book. - what's a book? so we tailor plans for individuals, featuring a range of integrated solutions. - you at your usual restaurant? - son: maybe. see you tomorrow. - stairs? - elevator. to see how our multi-faceted approach... can benefit your multi-generational wealth, look ahead with us at northerntrust.com.

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the intensity unlike anything we've witnessed in nine years of covering this war. u.s. soldiers from the 101st airborne division are locked in a never-ending battle with a relentless enemy that uses the border as an open door. the soldiers say that, as fast as they can kill them, they just keep coming across the border from safe havens in pakistan, trying to kill as many americans as they can. "60 minutes" was given extraordinary access to the men of the 101st, who are on the frontline of the border fight, operating from around 50 combat outposts and forward operating bases along a 450-mile stretch of the most dangerous frontier in the world. our trip began at combat outpost zerok, just 12 miles from the pakistani border. >> captain john hintz: this one came in yesterday. it's a 107 rocket. >> logan: three minutes after captain john hintz started explaining how to stay alive on his base... >> hintz: then things are going

great... that's incoming. ( explosion ) >> logan: the first rocket hit. >> hintz: camera crew, where are you? hey, let's go, right here, right here. >> logan: it was the first hour of our first day at combat outpost zerok. ( gunfire) >> let's go! >> logan: already, we were getting a taste of what captain hintz and his men live through every day. and they've been doing this for seven months. within ten minutes, the barrage was over. it had wounded two of hintz's men. >> hintz: what we got going on? >> logan: specialist peter kuyper's shirt was soaked with blood from wounds to his head. they're all used to dealing with injuries here. 40 out of hintz's 88 soldiers have been awarded purple hearts for wounds received in combat. >> all right, well, let's walk up this way a little bit.

>> logan: the 40-year-old commander from iowa has received three purple hearts himself. this is a tough fight, and you're in one of the worst places. i mean, even for somebody like you, with a rough tour in iraq under your belt, surviving eight roadside bombs... >> hintz: i don't even think that's uncommon, though. i mean, i've got to be honest, my whole company's that. i've got a kid out there that's got eight purple hearts. he just got shot in the head during a battle. >> logan: and he... >> hintz: kid fought. >> logan: ...survived? >> hintz: he survived and he fought for three more hours. i mean, it's just the way these guys are. >> logan: captain hintz commands one of the most dangerous pieces of ground in afghanistan. it may look like a desolate patch of dirt in the middle of nowhere, but this tiny base sits right on one of the main routes used by the enemy to ferry fighters and weapons from pakistan. >> hintz: you can never rest out here, because you know that they want this spot back. and the foreign fighters are very well trained. they carry better weapon systems. they have much more ammunition.

so, when you get into a fight with them, you know you're in a fight. >> logan: when you say foreign fighters-- from where? >> hintz: pakistan. we're only about 12, 13 miles away from pakistan. and we know we kill a lot of people here. and these guys, it doesn't matter if you kill 30 that day, or it doesn't seem to matter, because they'll be back the next day or the next week. >> logan: with more fighters? >> hintz: yes. >> logan: are the men you're facing committed? >> hintz: they're more committed than anything i've ever seen. one day, we killed 31 of them. we could see them dying on the hills. i mean, we were engaging them and we were killing them, and they kept charging us. >> logan: we obtained video of their enemy from the other side of the border. it's the foreign fighters, like arabs and pakistanis, that hintz says are the most skilled. they lead the local afghans in battle, but both fight in the name of the taliban. how much area around here does the taliban control? >> hintz: wow, that's... i have

probably 300 square kilometers, and the vast majority is controlled by the taliban. we push hard, we patrol heavy, we go out there, but i would say probably 18 to 20 square kilometers is what i think i own. >> logan: out of 300? >> hintz: yes. >> logan: are there areas here that you... you can't even go into at all, taliban areas? >> hintz: yes. there's multiple areas in this... in this sector that i can't go into. >> logan: i mean, that's incredible. i think people listening to that will just be wondering, "how can we be nine years into this war?" and i mean, you're sitting here surrounded by taliban villages that, in some cases, you can't even go into. >> hintz: i think the challenge is in finding out, you know, how to separate the taliban from the village. >> logan: that's the challenge hintz and his men faced on this mission to a village that's asked for help rebuilding their canal. it's the core of the u.s.

strategy-- to build relationships with the villages so they don't support the taliban. even though it means driving to an area that's a known staging ground for the taliban and foreign fighters coming in from pakistan, and they get attacked every time they go there, they set out to pay the village a visit... >> well, as long as we don't get stuck today, we're going to be good. >> logan: ... a three-mile trip that took an hour and a half because of the impossible terrain. >> hintz: man, this terrain sucks. you're just hanging up on a big rock, i think, on the left. whoa! >> logan: the speed we're moving at, and the difficulty, i mean, the... it just feels like this is one big target. >> hintz: we are one big target here. we are driving right to the taliban villages. >> logan: they're watching us, and guaranteed they got a spotter sitting right up on this mountain and he's reporting everything back to his chain of command and they are just waiting for us. >> logan: when they arrived at the village, the reception was cool

>> yeah, that's two of them. >> logan: and we noticed captain hintz was instantly on edge. >> hintz: you don't get a friendly feel here, do you? >> logan: no, not really. >> hintz: no, i don't think so, either. >> logan: the villagers kept their distance, unlike previous visits when they welcomed him. i see them sitting, watching over there. >> hintz: yep. different dynamic. >> logan: captain hintz tracked down the elder who'd invited him here to find out what was going on. >> hintz: the last time we came here, a lot of people came up and talked to us. is there... is there something going on today? is it a time of prayer? >> logan: not even he wanted to talk. it seemed he couldn't wait to get away. >> hintz: i appreciate you talking to me. thank you. >> logan: hintz was disappointed. by now, it felt like a set-up. the captain and his men were uneasy. >> hintz: we'll see how easily we get out of here. tell your guys to be watching, okay? they need to be watching these mountains. they can't just walk along, okay? >> logan: this is what american commanders are dealing with

every day in villages across afghanistan as they try to carry out their mission. >> hintz: right now, if the taliban is influencing that village or living in that village and we're not, then that's the choice you have: to go with the taliban and live, or to talk to us and support us, and as soon as we leave here, you'll be dead. >> logan: the trip back was long and tense. one of the trucks got stuck. >> ooh, they're up on three wheels. straighten the wheels. >> logan: hintz and his men struggled to free the vehicle, which weighed nearly 13 tons. >> hintz: what's up? we got a hammer or something? >> logan: every second they were on the ground, they were exposed. it was the moment the enemy seemed to be waiting for. ( gunfire ) >> hintz: get in, get in, get in, get in. >> logan: bullets cracked and whistled over our heads. >> hintz: they were hitting all around us. ( gunfire ) >> hintz: they had a lot of ak-47s. they fired r.p.g.s at us.

once you start hearing the snaps of their rounds, that means they're right on you. >> logan: our cameraman, ray bribiesca, stayed close to the soldiers to capture the fight. >> hintz: we need a fire mission. >> logan: hintz ordered in mortars. ( explosions ) here you can see captain hintz on the hood of our truck, completely exposed to enemy fire. he's trying to secure the 200- pound tow bar so the convoy could get moving. >> hintz: get in the truck, get in the truck. start moving. >> logan: the convoy still had to fight its way though the ambush. after 30 minutes of constant fighting, it was over. hintz believes they killed 15 enemy fighters, with no american

casualties. his soldiers were relieved, and captain hintz felt lucky to be alive. >> hintz: i had to jump on the hood to get the tow bar up, and so i'm on the hood and rounds are cracking everywhere. it was insane. >> logan: there are more than 12,000 soldiers at dozens of outposts along the border dealing with the same problem as captain hintz. >> commander joel vowell: up on the ridge, those are super highways for the insurgency. >> logan: lieutenant commander joel vowell at forward operating base joyce, less than five miles from the pakistani border, is one of them. >> vowell: most of the people we are fighting are from pakistan. >> logan: is it an endless supply? >> vowell: i don't know if it's endless. >> logan: does it feel that way? >> vowell: it feels that way when you have to fight waves after waves of enemy fighters here that are coming from sanctuary. >> logan: in nearly two weeks with lieutenant vowell and his soldiers, we quickly experienced the relentless pressure they come under.

once again, complex attacks carried out by a sophisticated enemy that doesn't back down. >> major john campbell: it's like any other border between any other country. you can't put a fence up there and stop everyone from coming over. >> logan: major general john campbell is the man lieutenant vowell and captain hintz report to. he's the commander of the 101st airborne division, in charge of some 30,000 soldiers here, and the border is his problem. >> campbell: you cannot talk about afghanistan without talking about pakistan, i believe. >> logan: general campbell flew us over some of the 450 miles of the border that he's responsible for. >> campbell: you're in pakistan right now; now, you're in afghanistan. >> logan: he's in regular contact with the pakistani military, and says the relationship is improving a little more every day. >> campbell: we would hope that they would do more within their capacity to stop people-- command and control-- and

elements that come across the border in afghanistan and... and i would agree with that. i think they have tried to do some stuff. is it enough? no. >> logan: it's not even close to enough. >> campbell: can they... can they do more? yes. >> logan: can they do a lot more? >> campbell: can they do a lot more? i would agree. >> go, let's go, let's go. >> logan: until they do, it's hard to see how u.s. soldiers at places like combat outpost zerok can make any real progress in a fight that's claimed more american lives this year than any other. what's the hardest thing you've had to deal with? >> hintz: it's losing my soldiers. i lost a 18-year-old kid in iraq. i've lost a 20-year-old kid in afghanistan. just lost a 29-year-old n.c.o. a few weeks ago; stepped on a landmine. you're a failure because you didn't take them home. >> logan: i don't think anyone would call that a failure. i think people understand that, in war and in combat, you lose soldiers. >> hintz: everybody knows in war, you lose people. but just not your people.

>> logan: as we left captain hintz and his men, their mission at zerok was coming to an end and new soldiers were pouring in to take over this fight. is it your sense that you're winning here? >> hintz: i think we're winning. i think we're winning. >> logan: you don't look convinced. >> hintz: i'm not 100% convinced. i mean, but... but you can't look at it like we're losing. i'm not going to come here and lose. so, do i think we've gained ground? yes. is it enough ground? no. i would like to say that if, given another six months here, i could bring in the next village, the next two villages, and bring them to my side... >> logan: but you can't. >> hintz: i can't. i'll never give up on it, but at times, i wonder if i walk out of here tomorrow, where's this place at? >> logan: where do you think? >> hintz: well, it's lost. >> cbs money watch update.

>> mitchell: good evening. top democrats said today they'll put off a vote on extending tax cuts until after the november elections. an auction of artwork held by bankrupt investment house lehman brothers raised more than $12 million. and the movie "wall street, money never sleeps" was the big winner at the box office. i'm russ mitchell. cbs news. spiriva is the only once-daily inhaled maintenance treatment for both forms of copd... which includes chronic bronchitis and emphysema. i take it every day... it keeps my airways open to help me breathe better all day long. spiriva does not replace fast acting inhalers for sudden symptoms. stop taking spiriva and call your doctor right away if your breathing suddenly worsens, your throat or tongue swells, you get hives, have vision changes or eye pain... or have problems passing urine. tell your doctor if you have glaucoma,

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>> pelley: a plan to build an islamic community center near ground zero set off a national controversy with anger, passion and more than a little misinformation. opponents whipped up a fury calling the project a grotesque mega-mosque tied to terrorism. tonight, for the first time, you're going to see the plans for the center, and you'll hear from the key players, including the people behind the mosque. ironically, the man who has the biggest stake in all of this has been almost completely out of

the public eye. he's the developer who owns the project, and he took us to the spot that his critics call an affront to the memory of 9/11. so this is what the controversy is about. >> sharif el-gamal: it is. >> pelley: this is the focus of outrage. it's a former burlington coat factory store on a dingy block in lower manhattan. real estate developer sharif el- gamal paid $4.5 million for it. so you bought this building roughly how long ago? >> el-gamal: a year ago, a little bit over a year ago. july of 2009. >> pelley: and before you bought it, what was here? >> el-gamal: it was an abandoned piece of real estate. >> pelley: there was nothing in here. >> el-gamal: nothing. it had been vacant since 9/11. >> pelley: vacant because part of the landing gear from one of the hijacked planes crashed

through the roof. el-gamal says he will tear this down to create a 16-story islamic community center. i don't remember seeing this before. >> el-gamal: we've never showed it to anyone. >> pelley: what are some of the things you have here? >> el-gamal: a restaurant, child care facilities, a pool, a media tech library, a world-class auditorium that will seat up to 500 people. >> pelley: he says membership will be open to all, but around 10% of the space, two floors, will be devoted to an islamic prayer room. el-gamal is a brash 37-year-old muslim and lifelong new yorker who develops apartments and offices. he says he got his idea from this neighborhood center where he was a member, the jewish community center. el-gamal thought his project would be a step up for a seedy part of downtown, and the community enthusiastically agreed. the plan was endorsed by the mayor, the borough president, and the community board. but that was last spring. today, el-gamal is described on the internet as an islamic supremacist.

who are you? >> el-gamal: i'm an american, i'm a new yorker, born in methodist hospital in brooklyn, to a polish catholic mother, to an egyptian father. >> pelley: let me make sure i have this straight-- you are a muslim who married a christian girl. your mother is catholic. and you joined the jewish community center on the west side of manhattan. >> el-gamal: i did. that's new york, though. that's new york. >> pelley: show me where ground zero is from here. if real estate is about location, the question is, how close is too close? we started at el-gamal's building and headed to the world trade center. you can't see ground zero from here, but when you make the corner... >> el-gamal: the world trade center is two blocks over there. >> pelley: ... in the distance here, you can see the cranes where the new world trade center buildings are going up. >> el-gamal: yes. >> pelley: it took us another two minutes to walk to the edge

of what the government officially designates as ground zero. but what do you say to those people who say that it is painful for them to have the idea of a mosque, even though it is two and a half blocks away? >> el-gamal: i was affected by the horrific events that happened that day, as well. and i do not hold myself or my faith accountable for what happened during that horrific day. >> pelley: of course, the national argument isn't about measuring the length of two city blocks; it's about the distance between perceptions. if you believe islam is a moral religion hijacked by terrorists, proximity doesn't matter. if you believe islam condones 9/11, this is too close. it got the unanimous approval of the community board >> pamela geller: yes. >> pelley: the people who live down there. >> geller: well... >> pelley: how did this become your business? >> geller: it's not my business, it's america's business. >> pelley: pamela geller is a key figure in all of this.

she's the islamic center's most ardent opponent. geller is a former new york media executive who writes a politically far right blog that mixes news, opinion, and conspiracy theories. >> geller: we live in a multi- cultural society, a pluralistic society with all different kinds of people. and how do we do that? we do that by getting along. and you don't build a 15 story, uh, mega-mosque at ground zero and... and talk... and say that it's healing and say that it's outreach. don't spit in my face and tell me it's raining. >> pelley: last december, geller's appears to have been the first blog to rename the community center "the mosque at ground zero." five months later, in may, a committee of the lower manhattan community board approved the project unanimously. that led geller to organize a protest at the next board meeting. but all the same, the board approved the project again, 29

to one. then, on june 6, geller held a rally at the world trade center. >> not at ground zero. >> pelley: by late summer, the community board had approved the center four times. but major media had picked up pam geller's label, and across the country, politicians exploited the debate. >> as governor, i will use the power of eminent domain to stop the mosque. >> pelley: geller kept writing, calling the project "an act of jihad," "a grotesque flag of conquest on ground zero." to what degree are you obliged to tell the truth in your blog? >> geller: that's all i do is tell the truth. >> pelley: to be accurate in your blog? >> geller: okay, scott. >> pelley: you moved the mosque to ground zero. it's not going to be there. it was never intended to be there. >> geller: that building is ground zero. and i will say something else-- truth is the new hate speech. and you and i live in so tawdry an age that just telling the

truth makes you a hero-- and yet there are so few heroes-- or makes you a devil in the eyes of the media. that's all i do is tell the truth. >> pelley: you think you're seen as a devil in the eyes of the media? >> geller: absolutely. >> pelley: you don't seem to mind that too much. >> geller: i do mind it very much. what am i going to do, shut up? you're never going to shut me up. >> we will prevail. >> pelley: she's been her loudest condemning the head imam of the islamic center, the spiritual leader. she described the rhetoric of imam feisal abdul rauf as "ugly, racist, anti-american, anti- semitic." you've been called a jihadi, a friend of terrorists, a man who can't be trusted. so who are you? >> imam feisal abdul rauf: i'm a man of peace, scott. >> allah... >> pelley: imam feisal abdul rauf has led a congregation 12 blocks from the world trade center for nearly three decades. >> feisal: the reason there is so much antipathy to our faith is because of the radicals, the suicide bombers.

that is not islam. we reject it. >> pelley: born in kuwait, he's been an american citizen 31 years. most people don't know, but he was picked by the bush administration to travel the muslim world, explaining the virtues of america, and he's still doing that for the government today. now, he's afraid there's danger this controversy could lead to violence. i wonder if you understand why many families who lost a loved one on 9/11 are hurt by this. >> feisal: i'm extremely sensitive to the feelings of the families of 9/11. >> pelley: then why did you do it? >> feisal: because we wanted to prevent another 9/11. we wanted to... we wanted a platform that enable us to speak, to strengthen the voice of the moderates. >> pelley: if you are so deeply concerned about the danger in

america and the danger abroad, why not just move it out of the neighborhood? >> feisal: because it's the right thing to do. it's the right thing to do. our community wants it, and now, america needs it and the muslim world needs it. >> pelley: what do you mean, america needs it? >> feisal: i'll tell you why scott. we have to wage peace. the military campaign against the radical extremists from my faith community is a military campaign. the campaign for winning hearts and minds is an important part of that campaign-- we know how to do it and we're committed to doing it. we are ready, willing, and able to serve our country and serve our faith tradition.

>> pelley: and to that widow or that child who lost a parent, who is a perfectly reasonable person and believes that this is wrong, you say what? >> feisal: first, we say we have condemned 9/11. i pray for the souls of your loved lost ones. if 9/11 happens there again, i want to be the first to die. muslims want to stand right there to say that we are here. it's my duty as an american muslim to stand between you, the american non-muslim, and the radicals who are trying to attack you. >> pelley: imam feisal told us he'll have a board of directors for the center made up of muslims, christians and jews, and he'll ask the u.s. government to approve sources of funding.

it occurred to us that there is, of course, another ground zero. 184 people were killed at the pentagon on 9/11. this face of the pentagon was rebuilt, and a memorial and pentagon chapel opened on the spot where the airplane hit. for eight years now, every weekday at 2:00, you can hear the islamic call to prayer in this chapel. every faith is welcome. islamic servicemen and civilians are among those who use the chapel most often. the pentagon chaplain in charge is colonel daniel minjares. >> minjares: i think this is representative of america-- again, not just army values, but what america... the best of what america represents, that various groups, various faith traditions can all use the same building. we understand each other better, and we support one another. >> pelley: and there is nothing

inconsistent about hearing the islamic call to prayer at ground zero at the pentagon? >> minjares: not for me, there isn't. >> pelley: back in new york, the developer doesn't need permission to go ahead. he's free to build if he can raise the money, which could be as much as $100 million. and this is the prayer space? >> el-gamal: this is the prayer space. >> pelley: can we walk down there? >> el-gamal: yes, we can. >> pelley: one thing most people don't know is that the prayer space part of the project already exists. hundreds of muslims have been worshiping in the abandoned building for more than a year, ever since a nearby mosque lost its lease. the mosque near ground zero is a fact. the only question is whether the community center will go ahead. the islamic community center will open? >> feisal: god willing. >> pelley: tell me what you intend. >> feisal: i intend to see this project succeed.

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carly fiorina laid off 30,000 workers. when you're talking about massive layoffs, which we did... perhaps the work needs to be done somewhere else. [ male announcer ] fiorina shipped jobs to china. and while californians lost their jobs, fiorina tripled her salary. bought a million dollar yacht. and five corporate jets. i'm proud of what i did at hp. [ male announcer ] carly fiorina. outsourcing jobs. out for herself. [ barbara boxer ] i'm barbara boxer and i approve this message.

>> kroft: in the annals of professional sports, few athletes have ever been as loved, admired and respected by their hometown fans as saints quarterback drew brees. in new orleans, they call him "cool brees" or "bree-jus," for resurrecting a devastated city, reviving a half-dead franchise, and leading them to the super bowl championship. and at a time when a few high profile nfl stars are serving jail time or suspensions for criminal or unacceptable conduct, brees' activism and philanthropy have served to remind critics of big time sports that the news is not always bad.

in a nine-year nfl career, brees has often been under-appreciated and overlooked, but he is finally being recognized for what he is, an undersized athletic freak who, in the past four years, has completed more passes and thrown for more yardage than peyton manning, tom brady, or brett favre. who's the best quarterback in the nfl? >> drew brees: is this like if you're voting for student council president and you can't vote for yourself? >> kroft: no, you can vote for yourself. >> brees: ( laughs ) >> kroft: drew brees is much too smart to answer the question, but he is clearly pleased to finally be included in the conversation. in fact, you can hear of talk around the league that he is not only the nfl's top passer, but maybe its best player. and the person who seems to be the least surprised is brees himself. >> brees: i'm a very modest person, but i am also extremely confident. and if you put me in the

situation or in the moment, i'm going to have some swagger, i'm going to have some... some cockiness. and you know, there's not anything i don't think that i can do or accomplish. >> kroft: in fact, he pretty much proved that everywhere he's been. but it took a long time to convince people, and there were lots of obstacles to be overcome. at six feet tall, football experts always considered him too short to be a big-time quarterback, not big enough to see over the on-rushing linemen and to spot receivers downfield. >> brees: i don't believe that you can be too short as a quarterback. it's not about height; it's about what you have here and right here. >> kroft: and in his case, it's about more than just heart and brains; it's about agility and accuracy. last year, the program "sports science" ran a segment showing him throwing ten passes at an archer's target, and hitting the bull's eye dead center all ten times but most of all, it's about

brees' athleticism and a skill package that's allowed him to master every sport he has ever tried. you were a pretty good tennis player, right? >> brees: i played, i did, yes. >> kroft: against people that turned out to be pretty good professional players. >> brees: i was going to let you bring that up. i know andy roddick's probably tired about me talking about how many times i beat him when we were kids. i beat him the first three times, and he beat me the last time in pretty convincing fashion. >> kroft: so you retired. >> brees: i knew that my direction in life was going elsewhere. >> kroft: when you grew up in texas, the only sport that mattered was football. and when brees somehow managed to lead austin's westlake high school to the state championship, not one of the big texas universities ever offered a scholarship. so he went to purdue, where he was a two-time all american and heisman trophy finalist, and shattered virtually every big ten passing record on the books. do you get some personal satisfaction out of that? >> brees: there's always a little bit of personal

satisfaction when you prove somebody wrong. in the nfl, there were more doubters, even after he was drafted by san diego in 2001 and led them the chargers to the playoffs three years later. the team snubbed him by signing six-foot-five-inch rookie philip rivers as their quarterback of the future. the next year, in the final game of his san diego contract, his career nearly ended. >> i think drew brees got hurt on that play going for the football. >> kroft: his throwing shoulder had been dislocated, and his rotator cuff and labrum torn, but it was the beginning of a wonderful story. there were people that said it was inoperable, that it couldn't be fixed in surgery. there was a chance you would never play again. >> brees: oh, it was career threatening, a career- threatening right shoulder dislocation, which, for a quarterback, is the worst

injury, besides a broken neck, that you can have. >> kroft: after an extremely complicated surgery, only two teams came calling-- the miami dolphins, whose doctors placed brees' chance of a full recovery at 25%; and the hapless new orleans saints, who had more faith. >> sean payton: if someone was going to be able to come back off of that injury, it was going to be someone like drew brees. >> kroft: the saints' brand new head coach, sean payton, had done his homework on brees, and liked what he saw. but convincing him to come to new orleans six months after hurricane katrina was not going to be easy. >> payton: the superdome at that time had, you know, half a roof. there was... there was uncertainty whether this team was... was going to be here for the long haul. there was a lot of uncertainty. >> kroft: do you think they were more desperate than anybody else? >> brees: well, i think that they were. ( laughter ) >> kroft: brees, who could barely who could barely lift his throwing arm at that point, decided to visit the city that was barely keeping its head

above water. coach payton was assigned to show brees and his wife, brittany, that the city was livable; instead, payton got hopelessly lost amidst the rubble. >> brees: so here we are driving down roads, seeing homes literally moved off of their foundations, cars that are flipped upside down in people's living rooms, boats on top of roofs. i mean, it was the worst of the worst. >> payton: and i thought to myself, "i might as well just drive them right to miami. we have no shot at signing him." ( laughter ) >> kroft: in fact, it had exactly the opposite effect. >> brittany brees: to see those areas and see people's lives being affected like that, really, i think, helped us make the decision. >> kroft: in what way? >> brees: what most people might see as devastation and, "hey, i want no part of this," i think we saw as an opportunity and a challenge. >> kroft: you sound like missionaries, almost. >> brittany brees: i wouldn't go that far. >> kroft: like it was... >> brees: yeah, well, i... i think it's...

>> kroft: ...like you felt some calling here. >> brees: we did. we absolutely did. >> brittany brees: absolutely. >> kroft: it was, as they say, the beginning of a beautiful relationship. new orleans and the saints needed a hero, and drew brees needed to be needed. >> brees: this was the only team that really looked at me and said "we trust you. we have confidence in you. we believe in you." and sometimes, all you need is just for somebody to believe in you in order to be able to accomplish maybe what you never thought you could. >> kroft: just six months later, he took the field and led the saints to their best season ever, all the way to the nfc championship game, one victory short of the super bowl. that season not only marked the rebirth of brees' career; for many in new orleans, it marked the rebirth of the city. >> payton: it was so needed. i mean, the cars were going the other direction-- they weren't coming in, they were leaving. and so, here came hope. and that will never... that will never go away with that he did. >> kroft: and it was more than just winning football games? >> payton: no question. >> kroft: off the field, brees and his wife helped galvanize the relief effort with more than just photo ops.

they committed and raised $6 million through their foundation to help rebuild homes and refurbish parks and schools. even new orleans mayor mitch landrieu, who we met at a luncheon for the saints, knows who the most popular man in town is. you wouldn't want to run against him? >> mayor mitch landrieu: never. i'd give it to him if he wanted it. he'd be a great mayor, by the way. ( laughter ) >> kroft: you could feel it as we took a speed walk through the french quarter on a quiet august night. the reception he received was the acknowledgement of two dreams that came together last february in miami. in an epic game against the indianapolis colts and peyton manning, brees conjured up one of the greatest individual performances in the history of the super bowl. >> brees: it's all just kind of a blur. it just all sort of runs together. at the time, it was all very much one play at a time.

this next play was the most important play of the game. i mean, that was the mindset. you know, we completed almost every pass, and every play we ran, we just operated. >> kroft: brees would complete an incredible 32 of 39 passes, and walked away with the game's most valuable player award. the sight of him alongside the lombardi trophy and holding his son baylin became the enduring sports image of the year. it also effectively put an end to all the questions about his stature as a quarterback. what makes him so good? >> payton: i... let's forget, for a second, the intangibles, the work ethic. let's forget the mental toughness, the intelligence, this unbelievable competitive spirit. it's the first time for me to be around someone so driven, and it motivates you as a coach.

>> kroft: before a game, lots of nfl quarterbacks wander off to be by themselves and collect their thoughts. not drew brees. he is the one stoking the fire, a job usually performed by someone much bigger and more intimidating. ( chanting ) it's not that often that you see a quarterback in the middle, doing that stuff. >> jonathan vilma: no. it's the first time ever in my football career. i first got here, he was the guy leading the chants, and i was like, "all right, it's a little different." but you know what? he's all into it. >> kroft: we spoke to saints' linebacker jonathan vilma and tight end jeremy shockey, hoping they would give us some inside information on brees, some chink in his armor, a piece of dirt, even a spec of lint. >> jeremy shockey: he's a bad drunk. ( laughter ) >> kroft: he's a bad drunk? >> shockey: naw. >> vilma: they are going to keep that one. >> shockey: just as good of a player he is on the field, he's as good off the field. he's a better person off the field. >> vilma: i will say he's not the best loser. i'll give you that much. >> kroft: we saw it ourselves

after a long practice session. we asked brees if he would give us a demonstration of his passing accuracy for our cameras, and he accepted the offer. >> brees: we got to make this good for tv, don't we? >> kroft: the challenge was to see how many times he could hit the eight-inch goalpost crossbar, which is ten feet off the ground, from a distance of 30 yards. on this day, brees wasn't perfect-- he hit the crossbar a number of times, and his misses were not very far off. but he failed to live up to his own expectations, and he wasn't happy about it. >> brees: low. not my day. >> kroft: that's all right. not bad. >> brees: nah. that was terrible. you got me on a bad day. >> kroft: i wouldn't lose any sleep over it. >> brees: yeah. i will. >> brittany brees: he's his own worst critic. its just non-stop. i mean, even after the super bowl-- "oh, you know, its great, you know, the celebration." and you know, "that one ball that got away," or that... you know, "the one that sailed on me. if he'd just gotten it out a

little faster," those kind of things. >> brees: you can always been a little bit better. >> kroft: that attitude has gotten him through some tough times. just before the start of the super bowl season, his mother, mina, in the throes of legal and emotional problems, committed suicide. their relationship had long been a difficult and contentious one with periods of estrangement, and brees blames himself for not recognizing the signs of distress. >> brees: there was feelings of guilt, sadness, just thinking about, you know, what i could have done differently. "could i have prevented this?" >> kroft: that pain has been eased somewhat by his devotion to own son, and by the news, received just after the super bowl, that another boy is on the way >> brittany brees: a couple weeks. yeah. a couple weeks left. >> kroft: mid-october? >> brittany brees: the 18th. and drew has an away game on the 17th. so we'll... we'll see. >> brees: we'll see how it all plays out. >> kroft: so what happens if you get a call on... on the morning of an away game? >> brittany brees: he... he's

not going to get a call. he's not... he's not going to know. if he's... if i go into labor, i'm going to get the drugs and just pretend like everything's fine. >> brees: so i go play the football game, and i come home and there might be a new baby boy there waiting for me. >> kroft: whatever happens this season on the field or off, whether he meets his own expectations or not, drew brees has already achieved sainthood in new orleans, and has delivered the miracles to prove it. this must feel pretty good. >> brees: yeah, it does. everybody says, "if you love new orleans, it will love you back. if you hate new orleans, it will hate you back." and i love new orleans.

saints fall to 2-1. kansas cityment the vikings pick up their first win. michael vick threw fo three touchdowns and ran for one with in the eagles win. for-- for more news and scores log on to cbssports.com. adding lipitor may help. lipitor is a cholesterol-lowering medication that is fda approved to reduce the risk of heart attack and stroke in patients who have heart disease or risk factors for heart disease. lipitor is backed by over 18 years of research. lipitor is not for everyone, including people with liver problems and women who are nursing, pregnant, or may become pregnant. you need simple blood tests to check for liver problems.

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>> and now, andy rooney. >> rooney: we don't always get to call ourselves by the name we like best, and for some reason, there are fewer nicknames for women than there are for men. i like the name "andrew," but most people call me "andy".

i like "andrew" and don't particularly care for "andy", but what am i going to do about that? last week, i read a headline that called obama "the pothole prez," because he wants to spend $50 billion to fix our roads. it's dumb and i don't think "pothole prez" is a name that'll last. "honest abe" was a good name for lincoln, although i'd be surprised if he was actually called that very often. "tricky dick"--- richard nixon. no one would call him that to his face, of course, but he must have heard it and hated it. jimmy carter was "the peanut farmer". bill clinton-- "slick willie". john adams was fat. they say people called him "his rotundity". grover cleveland was "uncle jumbo"; william howard taft, "big bill". people liked all these men enough to elect them president. i don't know why they gave them such mean nicknames. obama has been president for more than 18 months now, and we still don't really have a good

nickname for him. i don't know why that is. most of us like him enough to give him a funny name. if i was president, i'd like to be called by my real name, so just call me "andrew". >> we'll be back in a moment on this special western edition of "60 minutes" with a story about the reliability or unreliability of eye witness testimony. [ male announcer ] if you have type 2 diabetes, you struggle to control your blood sugar. you exercise and eat right, but your blood sugar may still be high, and you need extra help. ask your doctor about onglyza, a once daily medicine used with diet and exercise to control high blood sugar in adults with type 2 diabetes. adding onglyza to your current oral medicine may help reduce after meal blood sugar spikes and may help reduce high morning blood sugar. [ male announcer ] onglyza should not be used to treat type 1 diabetes or diabetic ketoacidosis. tell your doctor if you have a history

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>> stahl: it's a clicheé of courtroom dramas-- that moment when the eyewitness is asked, "do you see the person who committed the crime here in this courtroom before you?" well, it happens in real courtrooms all the time, and to jurors, that point of the finger by a confident witness is about as damning as evidence can get. but there is one type of evidence that's even more persuasive, and that, of course, is dna. there have been 258 people exonerated by dna in this country, and as we first reported last year, a stunning pattern has emerged-- more than three-quarters of them were sent to prison, at least in part, because an eyewitness pointed a finger, an eyewitness we now know was wrong. it was hot and humid in burlington, north carolina, on the night of july 28, 1984. jennifer thompson, then a 22-

year-old college student, had gone to bed early in her off- campus apartment. as she slept, a man shattered the light bulb near her back door, cut her phone line, and broke in. >> jennifer thompson: i remember kind of waking up and turning my head to the side and saying, "who's there? who is it?" and i saw the top of someone's head kind of sliding beside my mattress. i screamed and i felt a blade go to my throat. >> stahl: a knife? >> thompson: a knife. and he told me to shut up or he was going to kill me. >> stahl: her first thought was to offer him anything she had to go away. >> thompson: "you can have my credit card. you can have my wallet. you can have anything in the apartment. you can have my car." and he looked at me and said, "i don't want your money." and i knew what was getting ready to happen. >> stahl: she vowed to stay alert and study him so that, if she lived, she could help put him away forever. >> thompson: "what is his voice? does he have an accent? does he have a scar?

is there a tattoo?" >> stahl: he's raping you, and you're studying his face. >> thompson: it was just trying to pay attention to a detail; that if i survived-- and that was my plan-- i'd be able to help the police catch him. >> stahl: after about half an hour, jennifer tricked the rapist into letting her get up and fix him a drink, and she ran out the back door. he fled and raped a second woman half a mile away. detective mike gauldin met jennifer at the hospital. >> mike gauldin: the first comment i remember her making was that "i'm going to get this guy that did this to me." she said, "i took the time to look at him. i will be able to identify him if i'm given an opportunity." >> stahl: detective gauldin worked with jennifer to make a composite sketch, poring over eyes, noses, ears, lips, trying to recreate the face she had seen that night. the sketch went out, and tips started coming in. one of those tips was about a young man named ronald cotton, who worked at a restaurant near

the scene of both rapes, and had a record-- a guilty plea to breaking and entering and, as a teenager, to sexual assault. three days after the rape, mike gauldin called jennifer in to do a photo lineup. he lay these six pictures down on the table, said the perpetrator may or may not be one of them, and told her to take her time. does she say immediately, "that's him"? >> gauldin: no. she studied each photograph. >> thompson: i can remember almost feeling like i was at an s.a.t. test-- you know, where you start narrowing down your choices. you can discount a and b, and... >> stahl: oh, like multiple choice. >> thompson: exactly. >> stahl: according to the police report, jennifer studied the pictures for five minutes. >> gauldin: she picked up ron's photograph and said, "that's the man that raped me." >> stahl: and you must have said, "are you sure?" and... and she said, "yes." >> gauldin: yeah. oh, yes, certainly. >> stahl: ronald cotton heard the news from his mother's boyfriend. >> ron cotton: he told me, he said, "ron." he said, "the police are looking for you."

and i said, "for what?" and he told me, "for rape." and i said, "i haven't committed such a crime like that." >> stahl: did you panic? >> cotton: i didn't panic. i tried to figure out, you know, why. >> gauldin: he comes in and gives me a very detailed account of where he was, who he was with that night. as it turns out, that was a false alibi. >> cotton: i realized later that i had got my weekends confused, so therefore it gave them reason to think that i was lying. >> stahl: this was august 1, 1984. >> cotton: right. >> stahl: you go in to clear yourself. when did you actually leave? >> cotton: i didn't. >> stahl: he was locked up, and days later, put in a physical lineup. >> cotton: i'm number five. >> stahl: were you scared? >> cotton: i was very scared, nervous. i was so nervous, i was trembling. i felt my body just shaking. >> gauldin: they were asked to step forward, speak, and step back. >> thompson: i could remember looking to the detective and saying, "it's between four and five.

can i have them do it again?" >> stahl: and then she knew. it was number five, ronald cotton. did you feel absolutely certain? >> thompson: absolutely certain. >> stahl: did anybody say to you, "good job?" >> thompson: well, what was said to me afterwards was, "that's the same person you picked out in the photo lineup." so, in my mind i thought, "bingo. i did it right. i did it right." >> stahl: in a week-long trial, the jury heard about ronald cotton's faulty alibi, his clothing that matched jennifer's description, and a piece of foam found on her floor that seemed to come from one of his shoes. and most powerfully, they heard from jennifer. when they asked you, "do... do you recognize the man who did this to you?" did you point to him? >> thompson: absolutely. >> stahl: it was ron cotton. >> thompson: it was ronald cotton, yes. >> cotton: she called my name, point a finger. and that's all... that's all it takes, it seemed like. >> stahl: what did that feel like? >> cotton: it felt like someone pushing a knife through me. >> stahl: it took the jury just

40 minutes. the verdict-- guilty on all counts. >> thompson: he was sentenced to life and 50 years. and it was, for me, that moment that you know the justice system works, because i am the victim, and he's a horrible person, and he will never, ever be free again. >> stahl: ronald cotton was handcuffed, shackled, and taken to north carolina's central prison. he was 22-years-old. >> cotton: you know, they say grown men doesn't cry, but it's a lie, you know. i grabbed my pillow many times and hugged it, wishing i was hugging my mom, my dad, sister, brother. wish it didn't have to be this way. >> stahl: he started working in the prison kitchen, singing in the choir, and writing letter after letter to his attorneys, hoping to get a new trial. then one day, as he watched a new inmate being brought in, he had a strange feeling. >> cotton: i said, "excuse me." i said, "you look familiar."

i said, "where are you from? he said, "i'm from burlington." i said, "i am, too." i said, "you kind of resembling the drawing of a suspect in a crime in which i'm falsely imprisoned for. did you commit this crime?" and he told me, no, he did not. >> stahl: wait a sec-- you saw him and thought of that composite drawing? >> cotton: uh-huh. >> stahl: his name was bobby poole, and he was in for rape. he started working in the prison kitchen, too. >> cotton: the stewards were calling me "poole" instead of "cotton". >> stahl: they were calling you by his name? >> cotton: yes. >> stahl: in other words, people were mistaking the two of you? >> cotton: yes, exactly. >> stahl: then, a fellow inmate told him he'd heard bobby poole admit to raping jennifer and the other woman that night. ronald cotton won a new trial, and his lawyers called bobby poole to the stand with jennifer sitting right there. it was the moment ronald cotton had been hoping for... bobby poole is in the courtroom. you look over there. what happens inside you? >> thompson: nothing. >> stahl: nothing? >> thompson: nothing.

as a matter of fact, the strongest emotion i felt was anger at the defense because i thought, "how dare you? how dare you question me? how dare you try to paint me as someone who could possibly have forgotten what my rapist looked like-- i mean, the one person you would never forget. how dare you? >> stahl: ronald cotton was convicted again; this time, given two life sentences. back in prison seven years later, he and everyone else was riveted by a big news story-- the trial of o.j. simpson. >> cotton: i would get my radio and put my earplugs, and go outside and sit in a corner... >> stahl: and listen to the trial? >> cotton: yes, uh-huh. >> stahl: he was intrigued by something he'd never heard of-- dna. he wrote to his new attorney, law professor rich rosen. rosen warned him that there probably wasn't any evidence left to test, and if there was, dna could cut both ways. >> rich rosen: understand, if

the dna comes back and shows that you did this crime, whatever legal issues we have don't make any bit of difference-- you're going to spend the rest of your life in prison. >> stahl: he warned you that, if it comes up positive, you're sunk? >> cotton: i told him to put his foot down and go with it. >> stahl: packed away on the shelves of the burlington police department was ten-year-old evidence from the two rapes that night. inside one of the rape kits was a fragment of a single sperm with viable dna. it proved what ronald cotton had been saying all along-- he was innocent, and the rapist was bobby poole. within days, ronald cotton was back in court... >> you're walking out of here today a free man. >> stahl: ... this time, to be released. so, not only do you find out that ron didn't do the crime, you find out bobby poole did. >> gauldin: it was just utter shock, really. disbelief.

i mean, by this time-- this is 11 years later. and, you know, i know that i've been involved in a case where a man has lost 11 years of his life. and i just... i was so sad for him and his family. >> stahl: in the years since ronald cotton's conviction, jennifer had married and had children. are you the one that tells her? >> gauldin: yes. her reaction-- "no, that can't be true. it's not possible." you know? "i know ronald cotton raped me. there's no question in my mind." >> thompson: it was like someone had just taken my life and, like, turned it upside down. >> stahl: she cry? >> gauldin: oh, she cried. she broke down. i mean, she took it all on herself, you know, the guilt-- you know, "i did this to that man." >> stahl: shame? >> thompson: shame. terrible shame. suffocating, debilitating shame. >> stahl: but when she thought or dreamed about that night, it was still ronald cotton's face she saw.

to get past it, she asked if he would meet with her at a local church. >> thompson: i remember him walking into the church. and i physically could not stand up. >> cotton: she was nervous. scared. >> thompson: i started to cry immediately. and i looked at him and i said, "ron, if i spent every second of every minute of every hour for the rest of my life telling you how sorry i am, it wouldn't come close to how my heart feels. i'm so sorry." and ronald just leaned down, he took my hands... >> stahl: oh, gosh. >> thompson: ... and he looked at me, he said, "i forgive you." >> cotton: i told her, i said, "jennifer, i forgive you. i don't want you to look over your shoulder. i just want us to be happy and move on in life." >> thompson: the minute he forgave me, it's like my heart physically started to heal. and i thought, this is what grace and mercy is all about.

this is what they teach you in church that none of us ever get. and here was this man that i had hated with... i mean, i used to pray every day of my life during those 11 years that he would die, that he would be raped in prison and someone would kill him in prison. that was my prayer to god. and here was this man who, with grace and mercy, just forgave me. >> stahl: that is overwhelming. it's overwhelming. >> thompson: how wrong i was, and how good he is. >> stahl: how is it that jennifer could have studied her rapist so carefully and still made this mistake? and how could she have failed to recognize bobby poole, the actual rapist, when he sat right in front of her in the courtroom three years later? that part of the story, when we come back.

>> stahl: now that dna has exonerated more than 230 men-- mostly in sex crimes and murder cases-- criminologists have been able to go back and study what went wrong in those investigations. what they've honed in on is faulty eyewitness testimony: over 75% of these innocent men were convicted, in part, because an eyewitness fingered the wrong person. at the heart of the problem is the fragility of memory. as one researcher told us, we now know that memory is not like a video tape recorder-- you don't just record an event and play it back. instead, memory is malleable, full of holes, easily contaminated, and susceptible to

suggestion, as in the case of jennifer thompson and ronald cotton. before this case, did you think that there were a lot of innocent people put away? >> gauldin: no. >> stahl: you didn't? >> gauldin: no, i didn't. innocent people aren't convicted of crimes they didn't commit. i... i believed that. >> stahl: what do you think now? >> gauldin: i know better. i mean, well over 200 cases, nationally. we've had a half a dozen in this state alone. the first, of course, was my case. >> hallelujah! >> stahl: and as these innocent men have been freed in one state after the next, we've learned something else-- that in virtually every case where eyewitnesses were wrong, the real perpetrator was not in the initial lineup. >> thompson: when you're sitting in front of a photo lineup, you just assume one of these guys is the suspect. it's my job to find it. >> stahl: and jennifer did her job. she found the suspect's photo; the problem is, the suspect,

ronald cotton, was not the rapist. >> thompson: bobby poole's photograph was not in the photo lineup. >> stahl: right. >> thompson: he was not in the physical lineup. >> gary wells: when the real perpetrator is not in the set, is... is none of them, witnesses have a very difficult time being able to recognize that. >> stahl: gary wells, a professor of psychology at iowa state university, has been studying eyewitness memory for 30 years. he says, when the real guy isn't there, witnesses tend to pick the person who looks most like him. i think that ronald cotton and bobby poole look very much alike. they have very similar lips, shape of their eyes. their eyebrows kind of go up in a look of... >> wells: yes. >> stahl: ... surprise. >> wells: without him in the lineup, ronald cotton was the one who was in jeopardy. >> stahl: wells says eyewitness testimony has two key properties-- one, it's often unreliable; and two, it is highly persuasive to jurors. i can see why it's so persuasive.

someone says, "i was there," you'd believe that person. >> wells: you believe that person because they have no reason to lie. >> stahl: yeah. >> wells: the legal system is set up to kind of sort between liars and truth-tellers. and... and it's actually pretty good at that. but when someone is genuinely mistaken, the legal system doesn't really know how to deal with that. and we're talking about a genuine error here. >> stahl: he walked us through what went wrong, some of it counterintuitive. when jennifer spent five minutes studying the photographs, she and detective gauldin thought she was being careful. >> thompson: i didn't want to come across, i don't think, as somebody who's like, "that's the one." i really wanted to be sure. >> stahl: wells says, "no good." >> wells: recognition memory is actually quite rapid. so we find in our studies, for example, that if somebody's taking longer than ten, 15 seconds, it's quite likely that they're doing something other than just using reliable recognition memory. >> stahl: so you're saying, if she really recognized a guy, it would have been almost instantaneous? >> wells: quite quick, yes.

>> stahl: he says a better way would have been to show jennifer lineup photos-- or people-- one at a time, so that she would compare each one directly to her memory, rather than to one another. wells showed me a study in which more than 300 subjects were shown deliberately shaky videotape of a simulated crime. >> wells: you look out a window and you see some suspicious behavior. what happens is we tell them later, "then this person that you saw right there put a bomb down that... down the airshaft there." >> stahl: then subjects are shown a lineup and asked to identify the bomber. that would be so hard. and i just saw it. >> wells: very difficult. >> wells: and of course, you're particularly cautious right now. you know now, after we've talked, probably not to pick anyone. ( laughter ) >> stahl: no. no, actually, i... i actually know who it is, because... >> wells: yeah? yeah, who is it? >> stahl: i think it's this guy. am i wrong? >> wells: yeah. >> stahl: i'm wrong? >> wells: yeah. >> stahl: okay, so there you go.

and i'm already saying how hard it is. >> wells: it's none of them. >> stahl: it's none of them. >> wells: and it's so... it... it's so... >> stahl: isn't that bizarre? >> wells: and you know about it. you know about this. we've talked about this, so... >> stahl: look what you just did to me. i'm mortified. i feel like jennifer. wells says, in real life, the mistake is often compounded by what happens next. remember the seemingly innocent information jennifer says she got from police after she picked ronald cotton out of the physical lineup? >> thompson: "that's the same person you picked out in the photo lineup." so, in my mind i thought, "bingo. i did it right." >> stahl: wells studied what that reinforcement does. after half his subjects did what personrom th lineup-- he told them nothing, then asked them questions about what they'd seen. very few felt highly confident about their choice.

>> wells: only about 4% are saying they had a great view, which is good, because we gave them a lousy view. only about 3% are saying they could make out details of the face. that also is good because they... they really couldn't. >> stahl: but he told a second group of subjects, after they made the same incorrect choices, "good, you picked the suspect." >> wells: now what happens is... >> stahl: oh, my. >> wells: ... 40%... almost 45% of witnesses now report that they were positive or nearly positive. notice that over one fourth of them now say they had a great view, and... >> stahl: this is really what happened to jennifer. >> wells: it is what happened with jennifer. >> stahl: what this seems to be saying is that a reinforcement alters memory. >> wells: it does. >> stahl: dramatically. >> wells: it does. >> stahl: he says the solution is to have someone independent administer the lineup, someone who doesn't even know who the suspect is, and certainly not the detective on the case. >> stahl: you shouldn't have been there. >> gauldin: i shouldn't have been there. >> stahl: no. but nobody did anything wrong. i mean, that was the practice... >> gauldin: well, no. that was the common practice then.

>> stahl: yeah. >> gauldin: it was... it was the tradition. it was how it was done then. law enforcement wasn't schooled in memory. we weren't schooled in protecting memory, treating it like a crime scene, where you're very careful, methodical about what you do and how you use it. i mean, we weren't... we weren't taught that in those days. >> stahl: but none of these errors explains perhaps the most puzzling part of this story-- how it is that jennifer could see bobby poole in the courtroom and not realize her mistake. you're looking into the face of the man who raped you, whose face you had studied so intently... >> thompson: yes. >> stahl: and there's no flicker... >> thompson: nothing. >> stahl: ... nothing between you and bobby poole. >> thompson: nothing. and i've gone back there many times trying to think, "was there? was there ever a moment? did i ever look at him and think ( gasps )?" and i didn't. >> stahl: elizabeth loftus is a professor of psychology and law at the university of california

irvine, and an expert in memory. she showed me an experiment she says might help explain jennifer's mistake. she asked me to study these faces. then, after a few minutes, she gave me a memory test. >> elizabeth loftus: which of these two faces do you recognize? >> stahl: right. >> loftus: you picked right. >> stahl: left. >> loftus: you picked left. >> stahl: i said left, but i wasn't 100% sure. and then, the tricky part. well, i'll tell you why i'm stymied. >> loftus: okay. >> stahl: because i just picked this one on the left two seconds ago. but now i'm not sure, because those two look very much alike to me. but i'm going to tell you the left. but i was wrong! it was the one on the right. loftus explained how i had been duped. >> loftus: so you saw this face.

then i gave you a test, where i presented you with an altered face... >> stahl: oh, my gosh. >> loftus: ... along with another one. so i pretty much induce you to pick a wrong face, because i don't even have the real guy there. it's an altered version. and later on, when you now have a choice between the altered one and the real one, you stuck with your altered left... >> stahl: yeah. >> loftus: ... choice. >> stahl: this is exactly what happened to jennifer. >> loftus: this can help us understand why jennifer can be sitting in a courtroom and be looking at bobby poole, the original rapist, and looking at ronald cotton and saying... saying, "no, it's not poole. it's cotton." because she has been picking him all along. >> stahl: i begin to wonder whether there should ever be eyewitness testimony in trials... >> gauldin: well... >> stahl: ... because of the tricks that memory plays. >> gauldin: i think what's important, though, is... is to understand that, know that, know it as a police officer, as an

investigator, as... as attorneys. >> wells: we need eyewitnesses. i mean, if we couldn't convict based on an eyewitness, that's giving a lot of comfort to criminals. we have no choice. we have to find ways to make this evidence better. >> stahl: and that's something jennifer has tried to do ever since-- by telling her story to prosecutors, police, defense attorneys. and she's had some success. her state, north carolina was the first in the country to mandate reforms by law-- showing victims lineup photos one at a time, and emphasizing that the right answer may be "none of the above"; having lineups conducted by a person who doesn't know who the suspect is, or not by a person at all. one system now used in a handful of cities is computer software mike gauldin helped develop to

have a laptop conduct photo lineups. >> is this person familiar to you?" >> stahl: but law professor rich rosen says that, in the vast majority of places, there's been no reform, and that needs to change. >> rosen: this is something that police officers can and should be in favor of. >> stahl: because you're... you're not getting the real guy off the street. >> rosen: yeah. bobby poole raped other women because they went after ron cotton. so ron is not the only person who suffered from this mistake. >> stahl: ronald cotton, now 48 years old, has worked hard to rebuild his life. he worked the late shift in a factory. he's been married for 13 years and has a 12-year-old daughter. they live in a house paid for with restitution money from the state of north carolina: $10,000 for each of the eleven years he spent in prison. when he can, he joins jennifer in her campaign for reforms. one of the most amazing things

to have come out of this miscarriage of justice is the most unlikely of friendships. jennifer and ron say they speak on the phone about once a week. their families are friends. they say they have a shared bond that is hard for most people to fathom. have people ever met you for the first time when you're together, and said, kind of cheerily, "hey, how did you two meet?" >> thompson: yeah. >> cotton: yeah. >> stahl: they have? >> thompson: we get it on the airplane a lot-- we're traveling. and i usually just go, "you tell them." >> stahl: well, what do you say? >> cotton: me and jennifer, we would look at each other and laugh, you know. and finally we go ahead and... >> stahl: and tell them. >> cotton: uh-huh. >> stahl: and they have recently co-authored a book in hopes that their story can inform and inspire others. today, when you talk about or think about what happened to you that night when you were 22 years old, whose face is there? >> thompson: nobody's. >> stahl: oh, my. >> thompson: that's... that, to me, is one of the most beautiful things is i don't have a face. bobby poole's dead.

i don't ever have to worry about him ever hurting another woman. he died in prison. and ronald cotton is my friend.

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