his latest book is for cross and flag. bill thanks for being with us. >> thank you for having me. >> i'm sure a lot of people will

go i see him. how long have but been teaching history? >> 1962. >> you have that degree from pennsylvania. >> yeah. >> you have your resume 16 pages long. we want to talk about your books and why you chose to follow the world's journey. >> i grew up in san francisco catholic labor and democratic party politics. i graduated from high school in

'57. i came out out of san francisco and began as an electrician followed my dad into the building trades. i decided after some years of doing that that my dad was right, i should go do college, so i did. i went to san francisco state and berkeley and ended up on the east coast. my interest began a determination to put the labor movement into the history books. i discovered when i went to berkeley and took u.s. history course it was really not much in the textbooks about the working people of the country and almost nothing about the catholic working people of the country. i went back to east to pursue those interests and began

writing about catholics and immigrants in pennsylvania. when i was offered a job to come back to san francisco, one of my goals was to make san francisco state history department a center of study for california labor history and also the history of american religion. i taught both those topics and my interest in catholic action was a logical culmination of my growing up in st. agnes panes parish and my academic work. >> we have a how and why you wrote both cross and flag. why did you pick this individual? >> a colleague and mine

published a book on san francisco politics. we brought the story up to the 1932 charter of san francisco. we worked into that book some of the history of catholic labor activism with father peter york and others. we decided to do a follow up book bringing the story up to the 1980s at the time. i started interviewing veterans from the political scene. i interviewed the late david selvan that told me when he and his fellow civil rights activists were considering strategy and tactic for some rain the 1942 bay area council again discrimination somebody would always ask whose checked out this strategy with franklin street. i'd say what do you mean

franklin street? he said we always wanted to make sure we had the archbishop on our side. that got me thinking there was a lot i didn't know about. i met dr. jeffrey burns. >> we're going to take a break now and we're going to come back for more with dr. bill issel for what goes on in his book.

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welcome back to mosaic. the book is cross and flag. the author is dr. bill issel. there's so much to talk about. you wrote about the sad real life story of slyvestre andraiano. who is he. >> he came to san francisco at the age of 11 following several older brothers, grew up in the city, attended st. marys college. started a law practice in the same building where apg and e had built a new headquarters for

his bank of italy. the building is still there. it's a landmark building. from the time he was at st. marys was a devout activist in working with archbishop hannah in the italian-american community. he was active through san francisco public life through the degree this a coalition of anticatholics took the opportunity of italys declaration of war against the u.s. to accuse andriano and his

close friend of being facist asians. >> i think we have a look. maybe you can tell us about it. >> this is andriano on the right. they are both being sworn in as members of the police commission by mayor anglo rossi on the left. >> what's going on in san francisco? >> san francisco politics since the early 1920s had been marked by a growing presence and a growing activism by the communist party of the usa which was formed at the end of world war i.

this sending of a number of new communist recruiters and bucking up the party's presence in san francisco occurred at the very same time this a new archbishop arrived in san francisco. menti was coagitor. he brought a particularly militant commitment to the catholic action program. he was a veteran of the first world war. he was a battlefield chaplain. he came out of the first world war as did many americans with a commitment to making sure that such carnage never occurred

again. >> how did sylvester fit into that picture? >> he sought out andriano on the advice of archbishop hannah. they lived their religion in all of your every day activities, at the office, at the job site and so on. >> how did that work out? limb and workplace, did it make a lot of sense to a lot of people? >> it made a great deal of sense to the catholics who saw

themselves as part of a world wide program of revitalization of religion. there were many catholics that worried in the united states with its separation of church and state which we can say more about perhaps that this could lead to criticism of catholics. it had only been a few years since al smith had run for the democratic nomination and this had generated a great deal of criticism with catholics be nonreligious people. >> we want to take a peek. we have cartoon from that. we're going to ask you to tell us about it. what's happening there? >> this is a may day cartoon in

the san francisco newspaper in 1935. this cartoon was intended to demonstrate the catholic commitment to the american labor movement to injustice for workers. dignity and respect was owed to working men and women according to the teachings. in san francisco andriano had participated in 1934 in advising the mayor to settle the water front strike in way that respected the rights, the legitimate rights, of the workers in that strike, the dock workers and the sailors. this meant that andriano and the archbishop were criticizing the water front employers for their

refusal to negotiate in good faith with the international long shoreman's association. >> we're going to have to sneak away again. you mentioned al smith. we were roommates with his great grandson. we're coming back on mosaic. stay with us. bill issel is our guest. ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

welcome back. i'm tom burke. your book shows how factions converged. who was all part of that?

>> the archbishop's catholic action initiative which was andriano's e vocation, this would work along with the archdiase which would create action. it was 13 counties. >> it was huge. >> it was huge. the role played by andriano which was as highly public role, and he was not bashful about pushing the program, was such that a variety of anticatholic political activists and labor

people became extremely concerned about the potential success of this catholic initiative which encompassed everything from opposition to birth control, opposition to eugenics to support for the labor movement. >> did the catholic men's facet of that stay alive because i doesn't exist today? >> it doesn't exist today. i haven't written about this. this is the topic of my next book. one of reasons goes back to the vilification of andriano. pearl harbor shocked the country

and when italy declared war on the united states a few days later, this collection of enemies included italian exiles who regarded catholic action in the u.s. as a hand made of the facis, regime. >> back in the day they andriano or his attackers take a beating in the press? >> they did in the anticatholic press. i have to point out that the san francisco chronicle took a

particular -- put a high priority on what they consider the expose of sylvestster andriano. this is partly because he was a democrat. >> a lot went on that way. how is it possible that the fbi and the united states army believed these bogus claims? what kind of evidence was there has? >> one of andriano enemies was a socialist who was the editor of one of italian newspapers. he was convince convinced that andriano was a secret fascist.

>> we're going to take a peek now at a photo. i think we'll have that on the screen in a second and then we'll take a break. here it is. >> this is andriano being grilled by the council for the california joint legislative committee investigating anti-american basictists in may 1942. the chair of this committee held hearings in san francisco. his name was jack tenne. he was a publicity seeker who used the hearings to publicize his own patriotism. he was not above guilt by association tactics, and he

invited andriano's political enemies to testify against andriano. >> we're going to sneak away. stay with us. ,,,,,,

>> i'm a big believer in the power of we. we can tackle the tough challenges we face and build community through service and volunteering. the reality is - we're all in this together. it's time for you to raise your hand, go to serve.gov and get involved in something you believe in. are you with me? are you with me?

we're with bill issel. tell us where to find your box. >> barnes & noble and online at

amazon. >> how it is to have a book that you have written and worked hard on and now it's available pageless? >> i think it's wonderful. i love technology and when personal computers first came around i was one of the first to have one. i do all my writing on the keyboards now. i love it. >> are you a good typist? >> i am. i had a good typing class. >> talk about how far we've come to what you're writing about to where we are today? >> i see my book as a warning bell to americans today. the fbi in 1942 accepted the testimony of confidential informants who were political

enemies of this man andriano. the fbi never took seriously the information they collected from archbishop mickey and a collection of san francisco prominent public officials including the u.s. attorney in san francisco and the sheriff and the future governor of california. >> your warning to california today, the citizens is? >> my warning is national security is too important to be left to unmonitored public officials. >> to get back to it we have a shot of a mass. we want you to tell us about it. it was labor day back in 1938. can you describe it. >> i mentioned earlier that one of the points of the catholic

action program was support for the labor movement for the catholic labor movement especially. the association of catholic trade anddownist contrary to a good deal of criticism was a positive force of labor. >> you've done a wonderful job here today. you've kind of hosted the show wonderfully. thanks so much. you've done a wonderful job exorting us. >> someone once mentioned that

perhaps a history degree is a prerequisite for informed citizenship and i couldn't agree more. >> thank you for being with us. i'm tom burke. this is mosaic and the book is for cross and flag. google it and learn more about it. thanks for joining us.

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