good morning. welcome to mosaic. i am ron swisher. it is always a privilege to host mosaic on these sundays. my colleague and co-host and producer dr. hugh burrows will be with us next month. i have been the president at one time of the board of trustees, at pacific school of religion and just now a member of the trustees and i was for the search committee for the new president, and we discovered we had a great president. welcome reese. >> thank you ron.

>> great to have you >> appreciate the invitation. >> the audience probably doesn't know a little bit about your background but you have a great deal of background in seminary education as well as the school of religion of course tell us about your background. >> well, i started in ministry united church of christ, san fernando valley southern california and was there 18 years. during that time it was an innovative congregation and so we developed a large homeless shelter with of course with other partners and we did that, and then i began teaching at a state university three quarters time. i was doing all three projects and my wife finally said can't you find one and so i ended upcoming into pacific school religion the first time for 10years as a fund raiser and

ended up as dean. >> okay. >> that was in the 90s to -- >> i began january 1st, 1993 the rest of the country was watching television and i was moving my belongings up. >> i see i came to dsr in the 60s. 68, and 73 and was president of alumna association, not the trustees i said earlier and made a mistake there so i did not know of your tenure here in the 90s. >> no. >> and then i went on the lancaster theological seminary 8 years as president there and then i have come back. i am a retread >> i think we were pleased and blessed to have you. we looked around the country for different persons a lot of people emerged but when your name emerged everyone was just pleased to have you come back. >> tell them send checks then. >> that is one of the

challenges of seminary education, right? >> that's right. >> some of the ways we will talk about approaching that in the next segment but what have you found the most challenging in being back as president? >> all across the united states you have free standing seminaries. maybe 245 in north america. they are not connected to universities or colleges but independent institutions but a vast majority of them are under capitalized. they are always having financial struggles. that is one issue the other is that many denominations that support these seminaries are themselves struggling over financial resources. and so it is kind of a system where there is a lot of difficulty and yet great work is being done in the training of leaders for not only congregations but for other

forms of ministry too. >> we are going to talk more about that i think pacific school of religion is unique in many ways probably one of the reasons you have come back we will talk more about that in the next segment please join us as we talk to the president of pacific school of religion.

back to mosaic we have been talking about the pacific school of religion with the new president i believe for the next three years you are with us. >> term president. >> great. great. we talk about the uniqueness, psr what is unique about psr and that whole gtu community? >> it is very unique graduate theological union in existence

since 1963 is the amalgamation of nine seminaries, three are roman catholic. >> that's right. >> five are protestant and one is unitarian and so together they have made one library and -- >> one of the best. >> oh, a world class library and the students who enter any of the schools can take courses from all nine schools. so you have a choice each year of 700 courses and there is 145 faculty members in this consolidation so the schools are all separate but they have found amazing ways to share educational resources and faculty and programming. >> that excited me when i became a student there in 68. >> yeah. >> you had at one time the

asian studies and then do you also have jewish studies there? >> yeah, there are actually now in the same complex we are talking about there are centers so there is a center for jewish studies, center for orthodox, russian and greek and center now for islam. very active and there are all these specialties, so when a student comes they not only have their own courses i have talked about but opportunities to interface with buddhism, islam, judaism and prepares them for the kind of world we are living in where all of these faith traditions and world religions are found in any city or hamlet you go to. >> that is exciting earlier you told me about a student who was there for that reason you had thanksgiving with them? >> yeah, we have a large contingent of international

students we put on a thanksgiving festival for them. i found myself at the table with one young man in his early 20s come here from japan specifically because he wanted to learn more about world religions. >> i see. i was not here for your reception but you were going to talk about the future of seminary education and connections with churches. >> yes. >> and some of those things. >> the -- what is going on today is there are some people going to traditional route of coming to seminary studying for three years this is after their under graduate education preparing for ministry and congregation but there are a whole wave of people who no longer have that as their end point they are on their own faith journey or spiritual journey and will some times come to a seminary to help develop that information and knowledge base for their own

spiritual journey. so we are also in the business of enhancing or enriching the lives of individual people, so we are doing that and then we are also trying to reach out to more marginalized communities that have not traditionally come to seminaries for education of their leaders and trying to provide sort of seminary in the regions where they are. or over the internet so they can pursue studies without having to necessary give up jobs or relocate to berkeley. >> okay. >> so all of that is part of this kind of what i call the changing dynamism of seminary education. >> when it comes to church leadership i know some people, some of the mega church pastors and growing churches have chosen not to come to seminary they have taken bible study or the lord has called me and go

preach what do you think the benefits of seminary versus some of those approaches? >> well, i think that it is the degree of concentration of study, when you come away for three or four years as our students do, it is all day classes, practical education, and so it is the degree of concentration. there are many ways for people to be prepared as leaders in churches. mega churches run their own internal seminaries. and some other places hold programs, but i think it is probably concentration, the depth of learning that takes place in a seminary, you know, you are reading books and books and books and journals and

talking about it day and night for three or four year, and that gives you a platform -- >> another exciting program it seems has been lectures over the years tell us about those. >> they were started really early part of the 19th century. the gift that supports that came from the man who invented the refrigerated car for trains would carry produce from california to colorado say, without damaging lettuce he left a gift to the school one mandate was we do something on an important public issue every year between society and religious faith so every year there are lectures who come and workshops. it lasts three days. >> preachers. >> howard sherman, michael eric

-- >> teddy roosevelt. >> yeah, all the major -- many of the major figures in religion and society have come to the lectures over the years and of course we have a great one that is coming up end of january, robert risch will be here university of california talking about poverty and -- >> i think his book deals with that. >> yes getting a lot of attention. but we also have some great preacherworkshop leaders. >> we will talk more about what we call the tradition of boldness at psr. let's say a word about that in the next segment. i hope you have been following us here on mosaic please be with us in the next segment. thank you

i just asked about the tradition of boldness of the pacific school of religion.

what is that? >> well, pacific school of religion has seen itself as a progressive voice in christianity for a long period of time. you could trace the roots of that back, the first tenured female faculty members, the first seminary -- >> georgia hawkness. >> right. the first seminary to train an openly gay man for ministry. bill johnson ordained 1971. so a lot of firsts and there are many many conservative seminaries and conservative christian seminaries all over the country but we have really groomed and developed programs that are innovative and progressive. a decade ago we established a center for lesbian and gay

studys in ministry and religion. that is a major national center now that provides all sorts of education and preparation not only for gay lesbian, bisexual, transgendered persons but for the churches where these people live and work and carry out ministry. >> we did a video, what faculty, trustees, the students, it will get better. >> yeah, it gets better. it has been very much in the news many gay and lesbian teenagers have been bullied in their schools and environment and some have sought escape through suicide. we simply wanted to make a video that was a national movement to put videos up to say well, not all christians condemn you, there are people who accept you as you are want to celebrate your life it gets better hang in there and you will find perhaps people who

can also affirm your lives and -- >> back in october, i think you also preached at that day. >> i did. >> remember the text? >> i do. >> pharisee. >> and publy can. >> yes. >> going into the chapel to pray one comes out justified the other didn't because they talked about how great they were. >> yes the president usually gets called on to preach on those special occasions. >> i thought you did a great job. >> thank you. >> now the enrolment, indo youment, physical plant of -- endowment, physical plant of the school -- >> yes, what my work will be to do over these three years is boost enrolment we have been static not that we have been in great decline but if you look at trends nationally there are fewer people coming into the master of divinity program we

want to bolster the master of arts degree that is again for people on their own journey into faith and religion and spirituality. >> you mentioned to me earlier there are going to be all kinds of different. >> yes, there are professors, special programs, one of the areas we focus on is theology and the arts. >> right. >> so relationship of theology to graphic arts, theatre, poetry. to all art forms and then that has implications for the worship life of congregations as well because we believe that some times when you revitalize congregation it starts in a more dynamic worship experience. >> that is the other dynamic relationship with churches. >> yes. >> how is that going to be strengthened. will seminaries be involved in the churches and churches involved in seminaries.

>> well, i looked at lancaster very hard on that. >> where is it? >> an hour southwest from philadelphia pennsylvania. we worked very hard on structuring new platforms of education for lay leaders and congregations. one way we will do that here is build up a better instructional technology or internet platform >> i see. >> some of the classes that we have can be shared you don't necessarily have to be there physically but you can receive the course over the internet. >> so many people are taking it online. >> not that we would give up face to face education be many people talked about hybrid education some of the work done in line and some done face to face. with nine seminaries all gathered you can imagine the resources we all have if you can just say package it better or find new ways of sharing it with congregations. that is an ambition i have

again there is a price tag connected with that i am trying to raise money to enable us to do that work. >> churches can help in that. >> we are open 24/7,. >> what about the other schools, briefly about gtu how are they in their financial situations. >> they are in maybe the same -- some are stronger than others. >> mm-hmm. >> but part of what we are trying to do is work more closely together and actually share some faculty. >> mm-hmm. >> and put together some services so you can have a business office that serves 2, 3, 4 seminaries and we have actually done some of that work already. >> in hmm. >> for the past few years. >> that is good then. >> that is good. i know as you said 245 seminaries -- is that right? >> yeah, in north america. >> 90% of them are probably financially challenged. >> i think that wouldn't be an exaggeration to say that. >> so ways that we can share

resources share faculty we already share a library. built up out of the libraries of these nine schools. we have developed a wonderful partnership with sweden borgene church we brought them from boston to berkeley 10 years ago they provide faculty resources to our school and rent space in our campus so we are kind of merged. >> well, i a appreciate the commitment to social justice and always being on the cutting edge and that tradition of boldness we have one more segment left i want to talk more about your background in terms of church we haven't talked about your denomination and involvement please join us in our last segment at psr. pacific school of religion

>> >> i think one of the strengths of pacific school of religion it is nondenominational. i want the president to address that particularly his own denomination. >> well, ron, i was ordained in the united church of christ. raised in a congregational church in wisconsin and 1957 my denomination was formed from four streams that came together amid-united church. >> was that not the first church to ordain women? >> yes, 1951. >> we are 1956 united methodist. >> yes. >> earlier than some churches. >> this wasn't a flood of women but congregationalists were very much in the anti slavery movement. >> that's right. >> after the civil war, very involved in creating colleges for newly freed slaves in the south and have done a lots of

things like that over the years to sort of make up for some of the most heinous actions. >> first african american was ordained in your church as well >> i think so >> i mention nondenominational how many are there? >> usually 25 different denominations represented we see ourselves as a big tent so that we have people who id owe logically are different -- ideologically are from different backgrounds. that makes the background classroom a rich environment. >> you mentioned georgia hawkness she was methodist. >> she was an amazing woman. the very connection of justice

and christian mist simple, finding god through the interior of one's life but when you find god, god brings you back to the brokenness in the world. >> there is a new book on her just came out so i am going to be reading that i picked it up -- ordered it >> i will put it on my christmas list. >> yeah, you will have to get that. what do you think is the future of seminary? >> well, i think there is a strong future the church has not disappeared and gone away. it is a vital force in american society and world society but i do think that we have to find ways of making education less expensive and more accessible that is why i started to talk about the internet earlier. that is not the salvation theological education but it will be an important part of the way we moved forward. >> but isn't education important, we heard we are

21st in math and 26 in science so the whole gamut has to be dealt with. >> and you know educated society is an important one, but today, in our form of education, graduate education, when people run to ministry they will not earn big salaries so the student looks at the debt load or debt they are accumulating and things am i ever going to be able to repay that. that has been a discouragement to many people who might have gone into ministry. some how the church, seminaries have to deal with some thick like student debt -- something like student debt make it more affordable. >> psi has always been helpful. >> we try we have raised funds over the years and set aside endowments to try to subsidize the education of students but it seems like it is never enough. >> i am sure. >> i could understand that

because are you coming from family, other careers. >> maybe not working or working part-time during those years and yet paying tuition and board and room and books. books are expensive and you need technology it is a challenge. >> well, we are hopeful and glad you are with us we think some of your ideas -- i know you will be implementing next year we will try to support you. >> okay. >> i know that the truce at thes come from all -- trustees come from all over the country and we are challenged to be active and participate in every way. >> yeah, seminaries you need students, faculty, trustees who are your key volunteers, alumna, ministers, lay leaders, it is all a kind of necessary grievance in the whole community. >> thank you doctor. >> thank you thanks for having

me. >> thanks for being with us. i am ron swisher see you next month ,,,,,,

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