good morning welcome to mosaic. i am ron swisher. this is palm passion sunday which leads to the holiest week of the year for many of us climaxing in the resurrection of our lord. i have invite add colleague to talk about the significant events taking place the week. reverend stein weber. you are the executive director of interfaith council contra costa county. >> i have been there 10 years serving that organization. there are 105 congregationorganizations stated members of that group. it is a very big consortium of congregations, people from all

faiths, muslim, jewish, sikh many religions, bahai. i have gone a few times, and had the privilege of speaking at some occasions like thanksgiving service. >> thank you very much by the way. >> and latterday saints are very active. >> absolutely. we have one of our executive committee members is from that denomination and they are very much interested in being part of interfaith activity. >> i noticed in oakland they seemed to be very active too. so the doors are opened to them more and they are opening their doors more to letting people work together. the council is particularly interested in gathering people previously shunned by various congregations and denominations and saying this is an open organization we welcome you. now you are a lutheran pastor tell us about that. >> i am a pastor, congregation in oakland, trinity lutheran.

backside of oakland high school in the middle of things there in oakland my wife and i have been there 15 years. >> that is a long time. >> mm-hmm. >> how many people? >> a family sized congregation, about 50 on worship sunday and 100 members but stabilize. doing well for awhile. >> so you lutherans don't move as much as we med disks. >> depends on -- methodists. >> depends on the pastor. we are 70% an glow, asian, african american, hispanic, and quite a variety after that. >> you told me earlier, that i will to the best of your knowledge call. >> lutherans are similar to catholic and episcopalian they do a formal worship liturgy and pay attention to the seasons of the year. >> i know some lutheran pastors

they sing the liturgy. >> absolutely i love to sing. voice is one of my instruments i play piano, i don't do that sunday morning we have people to do that. doesn't make sense going up and down between the pulpit and piano. >> oh, you know why i am not lutheran i would have trouble being a baptist and pentecost tall too. >> i bet you are a good methodist. >> i will settle for that. palm sunday and passion sunday i like to put the two together some times, both are very significant. >> we do the same thing. >> okay tell us how you see that event. >> well, in terms of palm and passion sunday, the passion takes place during the week, monday thursday, good friday, easter vigil the night before easter then cover those events in the garden of the last supper, crucifix. >> are you doing that too.

we are but some people don't come in the middle we want them to experience that, not just the triumphant entry into jerusalem but what leads to his crucifix we do that long reading on sunday but we will also do the other services. >> well, you do the good friday do you have the seven ministers come. >> we don't do the three hour service. i think our members wouldn't put up with that. we will do a reading about -- one of our members did a masters thesis and wrote a script describing the events from the viewpoints of various people. we will do that again this year. >> that will be great. >> now palm passion sunday. >> that's right >> chef today,. that's right. >> i notice the passage of scripture is always

philippians, jesus equal to god, i wonder why that is always the scripture. >> that is a very good question. i did read a commentator that said what that is about is that god does not act like the god of the greek or roman world, god does not -- the word can be translated to kidnap or seize human beings and use them for their own purpose. that is another discussion but. let's talk more about in the next segment. you have been with us, reverend brian stein weber of interfaith council, executive director of contra costa county

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passion sunday and our guest has been reverend stein weber. >> we were talking about philippians and the regular translation, jesus did not think of a thing to be grasped equal with god. some scholars said jesus did not consider grasping or kidnapping to be equal with god. that is not what god is like. god is not whimsical, does not do things that harm people. so as christians and my idea, why i am a follower of christ is that jesus said he is doing the will of god he understands god understands who god is. so this is palm passion sunday, we are talking about jesussacrifice on the cross a conscious thing jesus allowed himself to be put on that cross. if he had a special relationship with god some how

he is saying this is what god is like. he is willing to be sacrificed. have you heard self- emptying and -- >> can i know sis, a good greek word. >> and many have stated prefers him of the church. >> i have not heard it put to music but jesus emptying himself on the cross, there is a controversy within christianity, whether god is the one who required that sacrifice, or not. >> that's right. >> the whole idea of atonement theory, my take on it i know people would like to have a debate with me about it was that it was humans that required the sacrifice, humans tend to want to sacrifice other people. look back on civilization, many civilizations were based upon a system of sacrifice, some of

their members to apiece the gods or make sure things went well with their community and they thought because when things didn't go right that it was some how a short coming that could be satisfied by sacrifice with people. >> i always liked leslie weatherhead and will of god. >> you are ahead of me here >> he talks about the intention of will of god was to send jesus to come to love us. humankind's response was to kill. >> that's right. >> the ultimate will was that the resurrection. that was making a good thing out of a bad situation. >> right. >> for me the highlight of holy week is good friday when we consider this was the extent that god and jesus as we say had a special relationship with god, god himself would be willing to go to this extent. that is the pinnacle of the peak of the time. i love easter it is all about

life and rebirth and the new life and that the world will continue in this way, with the power of the easter, but with the resurrection. do you do a monday thursday also? >> we do. >> tell us about that for those who are not aware of that thursday. >> it is the same word that means commandment, so it is named after i give you a new commandment you should love one another but also expression of the last supper and gospel of john, jesus washes the feet of his disciples, those are the two elements we have in that were ship that are important with remembrance of the last supper we have communion and for those who want to do it we allow those to wash each other's feet. some says the a lost sacrament. something that is really nice to do. i have many of my christian brothers and sisters have difficulty with communion.

>> yes. >> tell me how they have difficulty with communion. >> the idea that the body and the blood and seeing that as a will -- >> jesus body and jesus blood, well, that is all across the board isn't it from roman catholic church to those who say this is just a remembrance there is nothing special about this. lutherans fall somewhere in the middle. in holy communion we say we are experiencing the real presence of jesus. they stop short of saying this is a body and blood of jesus but it is jesus is truly present. >> i think methodists are reluctant to have it every sunday because of that tradition, the mass being held every sunday. >> god bless our catholic brothers and sisters but lutherans for a long time defined themselves against the roman catholic church so they also said we don't want to have

communion every sunday for that very purpose, we will seem popish. we worship the word more than the sackments what do you think of that? >> when i was ordained it was to the ministry of word and sackment. lutherans may hold some sort of middle ground this this debate. sacrament is just as important. >> i was as word sacrament as order. >> you have more than we do. >> were you the first. >> there may be some other smaller sects that consider themselves. the word sacrament is extremely important but how do you see if light of what has happened in the koran, the burning of you know a few weeks back, just all -- >> that pastor in florida that went ahead on his threat last september to burn the koran and evidently i understand had a trial, should the koran be

burned. awful thing. i think the man doesn't respect any word, the revealed word of another tradition in this case muslim. i think he was misguided even if we believe that other people -- well, to put it frankly are going to hell and we are not, i think there is nothing that we find scriptures say that we should disrespect other people's truth. we will come back to that interfaith and dynamics around that, in our next segment. >> all right. >> please join us as we continue with the palm passion sunday and holy week ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

reverend brian stein weber is executive corrector of

interfaith council and we have been speaking about interfaith dynamics there. tell us a little bit more about interfaith and the work you do. >> 10 years but the interfaith movement has been going on for longer than that. of course although it is getting increased momentum in recent years i would say. the idea about interfaith or interreligious work is that even though we can adhere to our own beliefs our own doctrines, we can do our own religious practices, that we at least are open and nonjudgmental . the writer is a christian he points out, real common ground is the command of loving god with all our heart and mind, and loving our neighbor, that is it. you thing that is what could

unite us. at least in the christian tradition that is the primary motivation for loving one's neighbor. some will say i am going to love you so much i don't want you to go so i will want to convert you to the one true religion. also, model for us that we have to be a little bit humble in our presuppositions and not judge as if we were god even billy graham when questioned about people's other religions said i am not going to put myself as judge of these people, god is their judge. >> very important to see it that way. i heard early theologians that jesus is the human face of god. >> well, for me as a christian that is absolutely true. and the way jesus acts or what he did for people, how he taught for me are the window into god the main window into

god. i have talked to people of other religions i am face nateed by what -- fascinated by who they have come to believe every religious group is elements, strength of wisdom and understanding and things that other people believe that i could use in my own life. mentioning good friday earlier, one of the i think most poignant words from the cross is father forgive them they know not what they do. how do you interpret that. >> you are a good interfaith person if you take that as a central belief. yes. in some ways people don't know what they are doing when they are being violent, when they are sacrificing other people, being rude, mean. that is what jesus is saying. i don't think he is saying forgive these people for belonging to a different religion i think it might be different than that. >> that is good to see it in

that broad perspective i think also how do you see forgiveness being such critical to the faith. >> we could do a whole program on forgiveness in fact, that is a key concept not only in christianity but in other religions as well. the buddhist talk about the nonattachment and i think they also mean nonattachment of grudges let them go. don't worry about it. what is done is done let's live in the moment. >> forgiveness is the thing that can heal wounds so within our lives and the lives of the world, there are definitely people wounding one another all the time each one of us can probably point to times, when we have been previously hurt. >> it might have been now, the term, the wounded healer. >> right you don't have to be cleaned up or perfectly forgiven to forgive yourself something about the dynamic of forgiveness, feeds on itself

and starts to create a community that fields itself to be on the way to healing. >> also, as we talk, desmond tutu, nelson mandela, truth in reconciliation, remember something about that? >> i sure do. i think that was one of the most inspired political developments in the history of the world. instead of wanting to go the way of retribution or revenge the idea was to confess and confession was very very important without confession there can be no meaningful forgiveness. >> mm-hmm. >> there was confession, detailing of crimes, and then there was after that very sobering experience, that happened time and time again, a way of saying okay let's -- that is out now let's move on from there. the people who committed those crimes found themselves to be forgiven in powerful ways and able to live more productive lives as a result.

>> even nelson mandela's jailor becoming his bodyguard or something, amazing. >> powerful. >> that is really transforming. >> this idea of forgiveness, is not as we say only owned by christians. >> right. >> buddhist and others. >> right. >> the idea of compassion which is even more broadly held, is very much related to forgiveness. >> dalai lama said kindness is my forgiveness. karen armstrong created the charter, try to make that a multireligious idea,. >> my favorite quote of her religion is at its best when it asks questions and worse when it tries to answer. let's spend a little bit more time on resurrection we have not said much about the easter rest recollection we

want to go through -- resurrection we want to go through holy week. we will talk about that in the last segment. >> love to. >> please join us as we have been talking about holy week. palm passion monday thursday, good friday now the resurrection when someone gives blood and a life is saved, that moment when heartbreak turns to hope, you're there through the american red cross. every day, the red cross responds to nearly 200 neighborhood emergencies. and your support makes it possible. use this moment to join us today. visit redcross.org.

welcome back to mosaic. i am ron swisher i hope you have been with us this entire time. it has been enlitenning as we spoke with reverend stein weber. we left off at the resurrection. >> yes. >> a week from now it will happen. >> right. >> what are some of the stories you thing are so important to remember about the resurrection story. >> the resurrection story we

tell sunday morning the tomb is empty and that it appears jesus body has been stolen and then jesus appears to mary in the garden and then peter and john come and they don't know what to do about it. to them it is a mystery at first, surprise to us, 2000 years later it is not a surprise. >> i read recently, mary is the apostle to the apostle. it is difficult not to name any denomination why women are not ordained when she has such a powerful witness. >> in my mind, evangelical lutheran church in america, ordaining women since 1970, not as long as other denominations, my wife is a pastor too. >> i didn't know that does she pastor with you at the which are. >> no, she was the pastor before i was, she passed it to

me as she took on full time councilling. >> where are people to go to your services. >> st. marks orinda. >> that is my church. >> well, the key word is 10:00 15 we have an -- 10:15 a.m. we have an odd time. alma oakland, alma means soul. >> that's great. when it comes to easter, the story around the resurrection, peter out runs john. >> that's right. >> and i think a powerful witness, those who had you know either denied him like peter did or for saken him like the disciples, all such powerful witnesses after the resurrection what do you think? >> well, this is retension this is when we are lost and now --

redemption we were lost and now we are found blind and now we see. peter was the man he denied strongly and doubted strongly as well. he became saved, salvation and the word salve like healing bomb come from the same root. salvation is healing of us. it is making us whole a forgiveness. that is what the resurrection is. >> marcus borg and john crossland, say the last week in jesus life, they are saying hosanna the peasant praised god and pilot has the empire so it is bound to be a clash. >> pilot is beholden to his minders. he has a tenuous position if he doesn't behave in a certain way he will get in trouble himself people of that time that had several insurrections, several

problems the roman soldiers had to put down. but i do believe jesus was counter to many civilizations that are built on police force, violence, keeping people down, and so it is -- it was bound to happen that he would come to clash with the authorities of the time. >> that is great. thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. very much connected to dealing with what is going on here not something way after we've gone. >> that's right. a good time to be a christian and person, follower of jesus, who is a person who believes in healing and peace and regard for the neighbor. >> thank you brian for being with us. i hope you have been with us this has been a great program i think and we are praying that you might have a time of resurrection, restoration, and revival in your own spiritual

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