today on face the nation will the bad economy and the dismal unemployment figures bring out even more republican candidates? >> the challenge is not simply to replace obama in 2012 but the real challenge is who and what we will replace him with. >> schieffer: is she or isn't she running? she still won't say. but there's no doubt about this fellow's intentions. >> one in six work-eligible americans cannot find a job.

mr. president, that is not a recovery. that is an economic disaster. >> schieffer: suddenly he's the republican frontrunner. as the president prepares to tell nation his plan to create more jobs on thursday, we'll talk to two republican candidates who surprised the pundits: minnesota congresswoman michele bachmann, who is doing much better than expected; and former utah governor jon huntsman who has found rough going as the moderate in the race. it's all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, bob schieffer. >> schieffer: good morning again. welcome to "face the nation." we welcome republican presidential candidate michele bachmann. she is with us this morning from her home state of minnesota. she's in minneapolis.

good morning, congresswoman. >> good morning, bob. good to be with you. >> schieffer: thank you. and to get the economy going, you and most of the republicans-- i want to just dive right in here-- are calling for reducing taxes on corporations. but yesterday sarah palin went all of you one better. she called for just eliminating all corporate taxes. listen to this. >> i propose to eliminate all federal corporate income tax. hear me out on this. ( cheers and applause ) this is how we create millions of high-paying jobs. to balance out any loss of federal revenue from this tax cut, we eliminate corporate welfare and all the loopholes and we eliminate bailouts. >> schieffer: so you're a tax lawyer, congresswoman. would you go that far? would you eliminate all corporate income taxes? >> well, you're right. i am a tax lawyer. i'm also a private business woman as well. we've started our own company.

we've created jobs here in minnesota. i think the very first thing that i would do today as president of the united states is to bring about repatriation of income from american corporations that have earned money overseas. we have according to "60 minutes" on your own network. we have over $1.2 trillion in earnings that we could bring immediately to kick-start the economy which would be a true stimulus. we could bring that money in at a 0% tax rate. have it be 0% through december 31. and then have it permanently fixed at 5%. after that i think we do need a reduction permanently in the corporate tax rate. that's the difference i think between what i want to do versus president obama. his solutions, bob, have all been government focused and very temporary gimmick fixes. what is destabilizing for a private businessperson is a

permanent fix. i want to see permanencey in the tax code. that's what we'll change and make die dynamic job creation. >> schieffer: what i asked was, would you go as far as sarah palin and eliminate all corporate taxes? >> of course to do that we'd have to have a fundamental restructuring of the tax code. what we would have to do then is rejiger other elements to define revenue and what revenues would be needed to the economy. we could go that route if we went that route then we'd have to have a fundamental restructuring of the tax code. i'm open to having that debate. as a former federal tax lawyer i've dealt with whether it's a national consumption tax, a flat tax or some variation on the current system. this is what i do know. it needs to be simplified. it needs to be fair and it needs to be reduced. what we do know is that the current corporate tax rate is killing job creation. >> schieffer: so you could see a way to do that? you're not ready to just say yes i'll do that but you could see by making other adjustments a way to eliminate

corporate taxes? >> it would be possible if we have a fundamental restructuring of the tax code but immediately what we could do is repatriation of bringing this money in from american companies that are earning the money overseas. but second i do believe that the president at minimum should lower the corporate tax rate to 20% so that businesses can see that they will have a more competitive rate. we certainly could get down to a 0% corporate tax rate but it would mean a fundamental restructuring of the tax code. >> schieffer: speaking of the president-- and i expect you'll be speaking of him several times during our broadcast-- you've been beating him up pretty bad for not creating jobs and did dismal unemployment figures. it's certainly a fair comment in the presidential campaign to be doing that. but you have not given very many details besides saying we have to restructure the tax

system and eliminate some deductions and loopholes. the main part of your plan to bring down taxes and get people back to work seems to be, number one, repeal the president's health care plan and number two defeat president obama at the polls. aren't you going to have to do aing more, give a few more detail than that? >> well, i've been on the campaign trail regularly. i've been giving quite a few details out. as a matter of fact, because i've lived this life both as a tax lawyer and as a job creator. when i talk to business people all across the united states, they agree with me. the principles that i adopt are permanent fixes rather than temporary gimmicks like we've seen from the president. and also private-sector solutions versus government solutions which the president has put forward. that's a very... that's a large distinction in principle. operating from permanencey. that would deal again with

repatriation of income earned overseas and also reductions in the corporate tax rates but also permanencey in dealing with the epa, putting on hold as the president wisely did on friday the epa rules. the president recognized that that would bring about more job losses at a time when we could ill afford them. if the president would also announce a moratorium on implementation of obama-care, bob, i'm just telling you all across america that would just have a sigh of relief for businesses because obama-care quite literally is killing jobs all across the country even today. >> schieffer: all right. let me just play for you something because you guaranteed something that really set people back on their heels last week i think it was in south carolina. here's what you said. here's what you guaranteed under a bachmann administration. >> the day that the president became president gasoline was $1.79 a gallon. look at what it is today.

under president bachmann, you will see gasoline come down below $2 a gallon again. that will happen. >> schieffer: congresswoman, i think that's a great idea. i think everybody hopes it. but who would you propose to do that? >> by embarking on an all of the above energy strategy. what the president has been doing is strangling the united states energy sector. the good news is, bob, that many americans still don't know is that the united states is the number one energy resource rich nation in the world. we have 25% of all the coal in the world. one of the largest natural gas finds. trillions of cubic feet of natural gas was recently discovered in pennsylvania. of course from a.n.w.r.to the east gulf region to the atlantic, and pacific we have billions of barrels of oil. the president has put all of that off limits. when the president put a moratorium on drilling in the gulf region, that devastated

the energy industry in the united states. i want to do what house republicans have been talking for a long time. that is embrace an all of the above energy solution so that we can be our own answer. we all realize we can no longer be dependent on foreign sources of oil and energy. let's have our solution home grown. millions of high-paying jobs. that will change our economy. but with the president's direction on the epa, that's not possible. let's embark on a pro-growth policy. >> schieffer: let me just ask you this. i mean, i know you believe in the free market. and the market sets the price. >> i do. >> schieffer: so if the market was unable to do that in order to get gas down to $2 a gallon, would you say you're guaranteeing, would you put in price controls or how would you do that because all of these things, people have tried a lot of these things. the gas prices are where they are. how can you guarantee that you're going to get gas prices

down to $2. >> well i'm an ashamed apologist for the free market. the last thing i would do is price controls but this is what i know. we haven't been doing these things, bob. we haven't been opening up american energy production. there are many, many companies that would love to. we can do this responsibly. and if we ask access american energy again we will create millions of johns and high- paying jobs. we also need to recognize this. when energy is at a high price, that brings up the price of everything in this country. goods, services as well. for every ten cent change that there is in increasing the price of gasoline, that negatively impacts the economy $14 billion. one thing that we know again, gasoline was $1.79 a gallon when president obama came into office. we can bring the price of gasoline down but not with the current policies of this administration. my pro-growth pro-energy

policies will bring the prices down because again it's not government-directed. it's private-sector directed. >> schieffer: one of the things that got a little attention was when you said as part of this policy that maybe we ought to start drilling oil wells in the everglades. folks down in georgia... in florida, i should say, took some exception to this. they pointed out that's where they get their drinking water. this is kind of a natural resource down there that people from the n.r.a.to even some folks who would call tree- huggers want to protect. did you really mean that? you're ready to start drilling oil wells in the everglades? >> well, of course, i didn't bring this up. i didn't say that we should drill in the everglades. what i said is because we know that thousands of floridians receive their drinking water from the everglades. what i said is that we need to open up resources across the united states of america but do it responsibly because we need to make sure that, of course, that we don't do anything that has degradation

for habitat or for drinking water or for air quality. but the good news is we can do this. we have the technology in the united states to responsibly access america's energy resources. >> schieffer: even in the everglades? >> anywhere in the united states. even if it's iowa or minnesota or washington d.c., if we can access energy responsibly in a way that does not degrade the environment nor cause problems to humans or to animals or to the environment, then we can access these resources. wherever it is, we can access these resources if we do so responsibly. the good news is we have so many fields where we can look, we need to look where the energy is the most plentiful and later we can look at other sources. we aren't even looking at the sources right now, bob, where we know we have plenty of resources. >> schieffer: let me ask you about something else. i sort of made a list of

things you've said since the last time you were on the broadcast. i want to play something else. this is what you said about the recent hurricane. >> i don't know how much god has to do to get the attention of the politicians. we've had an earthquake. we've had a hurricane. he said, are you going to start listening to me here? listen to the american people because the american people are roaring right now. because they know what needs to be done. they know that government is on a morbid, obesity diet. it's got to rein in the spending. >> schieffer: congresswoman, you kind of walked that statement back afterwards. your staff quickly said, well, she was only joking, that that was just a joke. i guess i would ask you the broader question. do you believe that god does use the weather to send people messages here on earth? >> well, of course, with irene this is a terrible tragedy. we saw destruction of property but more importantly of human life. everyone across the united

states is devastated by those views. my prayers and thoughts were with those families as well. obviously i was speaking metaphorically. that was clear to the audience. it was clear to me because the american people have been desperately trying to get the president's attention. he's not paying attention. i've spent my time all across the united states listening to people. i want... that's why i'm running for president, bob. i want to bring the voice of the american people and their concerns into the white house where their voice hasn't been heard for a long time. they're trying to get the president's attention, and that was a metaphor that i was making. >> schieffer: so were you or do you believe-- and this is the question i asked you-- do you believe that god uses weather to send people messages? >> i believe in god. i'm not ashamed to say that i believe in god. i'm a woman of faith and a woman of prayer. but the comment that i made right then was a metaphor. that was very simply what i was doing. >> schieffer: if someone were to ask you, congresswoman,

because he seems to be saying a lot of the things that you've been saying and he's getting aate low of attention, what is the difference between you and rick perry? why should someone decide to vote for you rather than rick perry? >> one thing people have said of me, bob, is since 2006 since my election i have been at the tip of the spear on issue after issue after issue in washington d.c. fighting against the implementation of obama-care, fighting against the epa rules and also fighting against the out of control government spending. i didn't sit back when i had the chance in washington. i have taken these issues on. that's what people want to know. will the next president of the united states understand the problem? will they know what to do? and most importantly will they demonstrate the political courage to bring about the bold actions that need to be done to get the economy back on track and create millions jobs? i've done that. i have a proven track record of doing that in washington.

that's what sets me apart from all the other candidates. >> schieffer: congresswoman, thanks. i hope we'll talk to you again. >> it would be a pleasure. >> schieffer: we'll be back in a minute to talk to jon huntsman. every time a local business opens its doors or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them with advice from local business experts and extending $18 billion in credit last year. that's how we're helping set opportunity in motion. look at all this stuff for coffee. oh there's tons. french presses, espresso tampers, filters. it can get really complicated. not nearly as complicated as shipping it, though. i mean shipping is a hassle. not with priority mail flat rate boxes from the postal service. if it fits it ships anywhere in the country for a low flat rate.

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we're not going to be able to get other act together until such time as we improve our economy and get back on our feet. i put forward a very, very specific list of proposals. i think that's probably unlike anyone else in the race. this is a proposal that's been endorsed by the wall street journal. but moreover this is a proposal, bob, that comes right from what i have done as governor. i do believe the next president of the united states in 2012 will be a former governor. when i talk about tax reform, it's hard-hitting, it's bold. it's big picture. i'm drawing from exactly what i did as governor of a state. i'm not talking hypotheticals. i'm not talking political hyperbole. i'm drawing from exactly what i did as governor because what i did as governor i want people to see as being completely relevant to where this country needs to go in terms of improving its competitive dynamic because that first and foremost, if we don't what needs to be done in terms of a competitive environment that will attract and keep brain power, that

will allow for the aggregation of capital and allow this country to expand and create jobs, we are going to see the end of the american century. one of the reasons i'm running for president, bob, is i refuse to see the end of the american century. >> schieffer: here's kind of how you describe the proposal you put forward. i just want to play this because it pretty much sums it up. >> i'm going to drop a plan on the front steps of the capitol that says we need to clean house, get rid of all tax expenditures, all loopholes, all deductions, all subsidies, all corporate welfare. use that to lower rates across the board and do it in a revenue-neutral fashion. >> schieffer: that's pretty clear. let me just ask you some details on that. does that mean that there will be no deduction for interest on mortgages, governor? does it? >> that means no deductions.

>> schieffer: what about no child tax credit? i guess its means none of that. no earned income. >> none of that. >> schieffer: in earnd income tax credit. does that mean that social security recipients are now going to have to pay taxes on their income, veterans have to pay taxes on their disability checks and their benefits? >> bob, what i'm asking for is a complete remake of our tax code. in order to get where this country needs to be in a position for the rest of the 21st century given where of our other competitor nations have come since 1986 tax reform, which i thought was very successful under president reagan, we forget we just haven't made a whole lot of progress in the last 30 years, all the while you have a lot of our competitor nations in the world who have made tremendous strides towards becoming more competitive. we're sitting kind of a little bit fat, dumb and happy as still 25% of the world's g.d.p. without having made the steps necessary to get us back in the game. so i'm calling for that which is bold. i know it's going to be

politically controversial bull i think it is absolutely needed at this point in our nation's history. clearing out the cobwebs, clearing out the cobwebs, clearing out the deductions, the corporate welfare, the subsidies, buying down the rate. when i hear people saying you can take it down to 0, all i'm saying is you have to be real about the math here. you have to raise some revenue and you've got to be able to buy down a rate to a level that mathematically makes sense. >> schieffer: what about what sarah palin said yesterday, let's do away with corporate taxes. would you be willing to go that far? >> that's a great politicalboro mild. everybody would love to go down to zero in terms of corporate taxes. how do you do it? how do you make the numbers work? all i'm telling you is i have been there and i've done that. i have worked on tax reform. the most sweeping tax reform we ever saw in the history of our state. the kind of tax reform where people like... came into our state and said this is exactly what needs to happen and every other state effectively creating a flat tax.

i've been there and done that. i know how difficult it is to make the numbers work. you have to find the revenues that you can reinvest back in the tax code to bring town the rate for everybody. i've looked very carefully at the numbers. i've looked at what the simpson bowls commission report did. this was a bipartisan group of very thoughtful people who looked at our tax code. i looked at their work. i thought it was outstanding. i took their work and built upon it and made it even better. our believe ours is based on the real world and where we can make the numbers actually work. >> schieffer: let me ask you about something else in the real world, governor. you have styled yourself as the moderate. in this race. but when i look at these polls i see rick perry now getting 26, 27% of the republicans favoring him. you heard congresswoman bachmann. she's scoring 10 to 16% favoring her. ron paul getting 10% in some polls. now palin getting in with another 10% or so. that means that at least 50%, perhaps 60% of the republican

electorate seems to favor very, very conservative candidates. do you think you can keep on styling yourself as a moderate? are you going to have to move to the right here? >> well, let me just say, everybody kind of gets a label slapped on their forehead. which i think is unfortunate. all you have to do is look up at my record. my record is what it is. i'm running proudly on my record. i am who i am as a politician and as a human being. when people look at my record they're going to see that i'm pro-life. i'm pro second amendment. i'm pro growth. we've created the largest environment for tax cuts and economic rejuvenation in our state. when people look at my record, they're going to find a lot to like about it. but the early polls, bob, are absolutely nonsense at this point in the game. i mean if we had gone by the polls back in 2008, fred thompson would be president. howard dean back in 2004. i believe we've already had

about four frontrunners in the race so far. stay tuneded. there's a lot to play out. >> schieffer: the clock just ran out, governor. i'm very sorry. thank you so much and good luck. >> thanks again. i appreciate it. [ male announcer ] this...is the network. a living, breathing intelligence that is helping business rethink how to do business. in here, inventory can be taught to learn. ♪ in here, machines have a voice... ♪ [ male announcer ] in here, medical history follows you... even when you're away from home. it's the at&t network -- a network of possibilities, creating and integrating solutions, helping business, and the world...work. rethink possible.

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went in. 7 september. it's the one day i always put the date first arch then the month because that's how the air force did it. it just pops up in my memory that way. i didn't join for noble reasons. i enrolled in r.o.t.c.in college because i didn't want to be drafted, but i learned more in those three years than i ever did in any school. one of the first lessons was when i came up with some crazy idea and my boss told me, that might work but first learn to do it our way. and then you can try it your way. remarkably, it turned out to air force had figured out several things that had never dawned on me at age 22. that saved me a lot of trouble down the line. this revelation that others might have ideas just as good or better than mine. the air force gave me the pride that comes from being part of something larger than myself and the knowledge that comes from working and learning from others on a team. maybe it's unfair but as i watch the mess we've made of our politics i find myself asking, do you suppose these

people were ever on a team, ever sat down and really listened to what someone else was saying? ever had anything on their minds but themselves? i know. i already said it's unfair but i keep wondering and thinking how much i learned after 7 september. back in a minute. successful investing is done.w at e-trade it's harnessing some of the most powerful yet easy to use trading tools on the planet to help diversify, identify opportunities, take action. it's using professional grade research and your brain to seek maximum returns to reach your goals. it's investing with intelligence and cold hard conviction. you made the money. you should have everything you need to invest it. e-trade. investing unleashed.

e-trade. or creates another laptop bag or hires another employee, it's not just good for business -- it's good for the entire community. at bank of america, we know the impact that local businesses have on communities, so we're helping them with advice from local business experts and extending $18 billion in credit last year. that's how we're helping set opportunity in motion. >> schieffer: that's it for us. see you next week. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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