. good morning. welcome to mosaic. it's a pleasure to welcome dr. ron mockasony to mosaic. ron is a buddhist priest, member of the core docket ral faculty at berkeley, native of hawaii. let's let you tell us that story and go from there. >> i was born and raised in hawaii. i'm a third generation oak can i

okinawan-hawaiian, immigrated to hawaii in 1904, haven't found a record. my family has been in hawaii now for over a hundred years, 105 years, i guess, 106 years. and after finishing school, getting my education at the university of hawaii, i worked as a graphic designer, among other things and we left for japan, my wife and i. and i spent some 60 years there studying biewdism, biewdism, culture, and we had to depend on each other for six years and that was really nice. after that, i enrolled at the doctoral program in buddhist studies at the university of wisconsin in madison. after graduating -- i'm sorry. i received a full ride

scholarship, grant to go back to finish my dissertation, which i d for a while, i taught japanese at the university of hawaii. then i landed a job as a translator with the federal government and made my way back to san jose. not sure when it was, to work as a minister at the san jose buddhist church on jackson street. then i went back to harvard for a year as a post doc. upon returning, i believe it was 1987, i joined the faculty of the buddhist studies and i left there, i'm not sure when, and then i've been at the gtu ever since. and that's -- so the bay area's home really, and you live in fremont, is that right? >> yes, i do. and we're going to talk about some of the relationship, particularly within asian cultures and the idea of aging and some particulars there. so not that you're getting older

out there as you watch us, but we thought it would be good for those people you know who do get older to talk to the doctor specifically about how to engage aging and what it means in an asian culture. so we'll take a break. when we come back, that's where we'll be going. ron, good to have you with us. >> thank you very much. [splash] ♪ [drill sargeant] attention [boots hitting floor] [bells ringing] [helicopter propeller] ♪ lean on me ... [helicopter propeller] ♪ when you are not strong ... and i'll be your friend ♪ [male announcer] because sometimes, even the rescuers

need to be rescued. ♪ so just call me ... the coast guard foundation find out how you can help at rescue the rescuers dot org . we're backtalking to dr. ron mockasony. you have discovered the whole idea of aging and studying that. how did you get into this? >> well, you know, when you go to graduate school, you don't -- it's very academic and theoretical. i had no intention of studying

aging, but my first encounter, of course, when i became a temple minister, mostly old people come to the temple. people get old and of course they die and these are very existential questions i had to deal with. that was my first introduction, as a temple minister. and when i joined the faculty at the graduate theological union there, somehow stanford, i got involved with the stanford gear attic education center, focusing on ethnic elder, japanese, chinese, latino, non-american gear yat tricks.

gradually, my expertise had to expand because i was asked to address the aging issue of different ethnic minorities. give us some specifics of what you call feelialty and the different asian religions in particular. >> one of the very -- this is not special to asia, but it's a strong emphasis in asia on feelialty, and it simply means a relationship of parent and child. and more broadly, husband and wife, employer, or king and prince, friends, among friends, things of this nature.

so feelialty is this sentiment that arises between relationships. parent and child is the most fundamental. parent takes care of a child. the child in response to that, in response to that offers gratitude and feelings of gratitude. so there's a sentiment, obligation -- now, here's a picture of your mentor. you talk about feel yatty. >> now, this is a picture of my elder teacher, this is taken a few weeks just before he passed away. i'm standing on the side there about 10 years ago, more than 10 years ago. and i remember when i first went to japan, i began studying calligraphy and he and i were talking once and he mentioned to me that he's looking forward to

growing old. i thought what is this old man talking about? who wants to get old? so i asked him why? why do you want to get old? and he said, well, i want to see how i will change and grow, and how will this maturity impact my hardened self. that didn't make a lot of sense. he was 26. he was only 60. only when i approached his age, 58 or 60, i remembered what he said and i began to understand what he meant. and growing old, of course, when a person grows old in any culture, we have a wealth of experience with an elder, a younger person cannot have. and his definition of genius is it has nothing to do with technicality of how one uses a

brush. one understands heart. genius is how one southbound to live in this world with equini mit y. let's talk about that, there's a quote from the zen master i wonder if you could share with us. >> oh, yeah. sure, well, there's a passage, and i think we have a photograph of that somewhere, a zen master, reformer of the zen sect. anyway, he has a calligraphy piece which kind of struck me and i think it will be coming on soon. but essentially -- here it is. it says pile up money if your descendents, they will squander it. pile up books for your children

and grandchildren, they won't read it. the best thing to do is to increase your virtue, quietly, secretly, pass this along to your descendents and it will continue for many ages. so he obviously had much experience with older people and saw children squandering their parents and grandparents fortune, and do today still. we have a couple of minutes in this segment. equinimity, how would you define that? >> in chinese culture, we have a term for that, something like being able to have a wealth and depth of experience in living and be able to see the world and live with the world with ease,

not getting too riled up with things, things will pass. it doesn't mean com placensy, but means we can flow with the punches, live at ease, with one's self and in one's place in the world. >> and also a balance. >> yes, and also that aesthetic value and we look for this aesthetic value in calligraphy. that's another topic. we'll come back and talk more with ron nakasone. stay with us. fascinating.

. ron nakasone is with us. we're talking about aging in an asian context, with the different asian faiths. ron provided us with a quote from con few shoes, which is good to introduce this this. at 15,i set my heart to learning, at 30 i took my stand. at 40, i was without doubt. at 50, i understood the way of heaven. at 60, my ear was attuned to heaven's ways. at 70, i followed my heart-mind

desires without trans agreeing the way of heaven. different ages, different stages, different relationships? >> that's a very famous quotation, guess we call it life review, review of his life, and the thing about this i think is that very prominent, he places great strength on education for self cultivation, self examination, self realization and self realization. so he placed a great emphasis on education and part of the asian attitude towards education can be traced to this kind of thinking, that it is through education that we can improve

ourselves and in a sense, transform ourselves. now, we had -- and this very much is, by the way, is very much in tune with an earlier photograph that we had of my teacher about wanting to grow old. why does he want to grow old? he sees himself in calligraphy as a way of transforming himself, becoming a better person, and this can only become -- can only come with, can only come with age. and the calligraphy in the back that you see is calligraphy for wind. >> yeah, wind. >> and the space beyond that, which the calligraphy creates has a greater sense of peace. there's no education.

young people are very active and you can -- when one becomes older, there's a sense of settledness and that shows, not only with our being, but also with what we produce. in trying to bridge some to western, western religion, you use the word "spirituality," which is kind of vague, but to me, it goes back to this theology that you're speaking of from the asian religion approach, it is this relational thing around you to which you adapt, rather than a matter of faith. and also, it has very much to do with family. so you have just come back from okinawa where you visited your family's shrine -- i don't know the word there. and so talk a little bit about the importance of family and where you are fit into things there.

>> i think not only asia, but many traditional associates, the idea of a family is very important, and the idea of family and of course of place, and where one -- i think those are the two things that really impressed me when i go back to okinawa this time. of course i have been back many number of times, but i took my brother and his son and my sister, who had never been there before. i could tell they found a sense of belonging to this land. this is a picture of my ancestral tomb in okinawa. we have to wait until the tide dissipates, move out, and we can cross on a sandbar and this is my ancestral tomb. and we believe that we can meet our ancestors here, and in a

visceral sense, every time i visit this grave site, you know, i have a very visceral connection to people there, to the place, and so often times, asians find purpose in their place, in their generation. where do they sit in this whole scheme of generational sequence? and i know exactly where i sit, where i belong here and why i'm here, and hopefully my daughter -- i have only one daughter -- will remember this. so we cultivate quiet belief, but visiting together with me and seeing with me, my wife understand how important this is. i hope my daughter learns it. and now here's a picture of the whole family at the anniversary of the death of one

of your ancestors. >> yes, this is a photograph of a 33rd memorial service of my aunt, my mother's sister. >> is 33rd a special number? >> well, 33rd is a special number. i'm not sure why 33 years, but this represents the last service, if an individual is honored as a person. at the end of the service, the memorial plaque, which her name isen scribe order is ritualistically burned and she is no longer honored as an individual, but the plaque is now placed in a special shrine so she is now honored as an an zest tore. i haven't been able to figure out why 33 years, but of course in the past, a life expectancy was about 50 years. after 33 years, there's probably no one around to remember that,

to remember. that's probably, probably why. i'm not sure. i'm just speculating. if you will hold on to us, remember to come back and we'll wrap up with ron nakasone this morning.

. dr. ron nakasone, buddhism, aging in asian context, and ron had just told us about a visit

to his ancestral shrine, then was talking about the relationship and the duties of between really the living and the ancestors. share that, if you would, sir. >> in the okinawan culture, japanese culture, chinese culture, there is no distinction between life and death. in japan, in okinawa, when a person passes away, he or she has ended her physical existence, but the spiritual existence still needs be cultivated. so at the end of 33 years, it's believed that the person finally fulfills and becomes a deity, ancestral spirit. and the idea of reciprocity, feelialty between parent and child, even in death, the child has an obligation to support his or her family, parents, in

fulfilling this or becoming a fully spiritual being. and we do this by remembering, offering sacrifices, and to ease this person's passage to the spiritual life. and so this obligation, of course, is not only -- should not only be relegated to when a person is dead. that's fully a continuation of caring for one's elders as they get older. and this is something that's still very prominent, very strong in asian families, even here in the united states, even here in san francisco, and, and one of the concrete ways this idea of feelialty has been demonstrated in san francisco is the building of low income housing for japanese elders. >> okay. >> and this, of course, this is

a housing project, built in japantown, built with hud money for low income japanese elders, and so it's hud money, so they cannot discriminate against people who reside there. but this was originally built with the intention of offering an alternative housing, good housing for japanese elders. and talk a little bit about the specialness of that, and while here's another slide, this is, what? >> this is an assisted living facility. i had input into -- not so much the design, but the spiritual makeup. i don't know a better word for that. this is a very elite project, very unique project. why? because this was built in a community and it was sponsored by what we call the japanese religious federation of san

francisco. it's a consortium of japanese buddhist temps, christian churches, and shintu temple, leveraged the community influence to get money from redevelopment, among other things, from the federal government to build it. so it's a truly interfaith co-op. >> can i go in there and -- how's it different from another place? >> well, when we designed the building, i mentioned that very practical things to be important. food, for example. as japanese, we can't eat meat and potatoes every day. we would like to have japanese food. so the diet is quite mixed. very important, especially for elders who are not familiar with

the american health system. things are explained in japanese. services are done in japanese there, things of this nature. numbers are very important. the number four -- i'm not sure if they have a fourth floor, but four is not a good number in japanese or chinese, because shi also means death, so you don't want to place a person on the fourth floor. things of this nature are very important. and the atmosphere of caring and of concern, and inviting a place for a person to live all their years. aging within particular cultures, paying attention to your own culture and other people's culture and what that means. well, as -- should you anal, what are you looking forward to, ron? >> should i age? well, i am aging. it's not should i age. well, as you know, i've done

calligraphy. i'm still doing that. i'm looking forward actually to see how my own calligraphy will change and grow and also my scholarship. i've -- i would like to think it grows, things fall off my back, i don't get too excited. i get kind of mix the existential with the academic and seeing how that will evolve. well, we are very grateful to you for coming on and sharing this fascinating stuff from a very caring man, bay area treasure ron nakasone. blessings to you. thank you for being on today. >> thank you very much. it's been a pleasure to he see you again. we've known each other for some years, but haven't been able to sit down and talk like this. for myself and ron swisher, we'll see you again next month on mosaic. thanks for being with us.

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