hello and welcome to mosaic. there are words when people hear them, those of the faith and not of the faith know they're catholic words. they include the rosary, confessions, guilt, just kidding about that one. but, there's certainly one, [speak latin]

>> the lord be with you and your spirit. this is laura bertoni. here today, she's going to talk about text changes in the mass that includes or starts out with that phrase. now, i know, i'm not going to suggest you're old enough to remember the old mass. people used to say that was the pope's phone number. >> not quite. if you're traveling, in other languages, they use the term. the english are catching up by our changing back to with your spirit. >> we're talking about changes to the text of the mass. it's been around for ever. these changes have come more urgently in the past 50 years. tell us about that and why are we going back?

>> well, as you said, the history of the mass goes back to jesus' time. before then also, there didn't seem to be a lot of changes until the 16th century when we went to a formal latin mass. that was part of the state reformation. that didn't change for 400 years until '63, that major change happened then. not just the order of mass and what we said. we switched from latin to english or whatever language you used. many other changes priests changed from turning their back to you to facing you. things that had been in the mass had been taken out. >> it was exciting. >> yes, and most thought it was an improvement and some objected.

in '70, an english translation of the mass came out and it was intended to be temporary. they knew they didn't rush it, experts did it. they thought, we'll do it once now and get back to it later when we have time. >> the words they use make it less casual. >> when they made the translation in the 60s and 70s into all languages, they used dynamic equivalencey -- equivalence city. they wanted the person to get the same idea.

in 2000, they added new prayers. they said, this time, we would like you to do a different form of translation. they wanted to get close to word to word as possible. don't paraphrase, get as close as you can to what the latin says. >> what you're telling too, and i'm proud to be a part of this is while the church tried to get it right for 2000 years, this is going on for a dozen years. >> it took them from 2000 to 2010 to translate the book. it's a big book. they had to start from scratch and go prayer by prayer by prayer. even things we're also used to

saying, we're changing. >> our participation wasn't really changed. but residers and priests have had changes. yes, for us, we've had little words changed here and here. it seems disruptive. every prayer has a tweak. i was discussing it with the archbishop. he's said this one 10,000 times he said. the same words are used over the bread and wine. suddenly, we're changing all of the words. that's a hard habit to break. >> nothing changes, nothing changes. we'll be back, stay with us, your spirit, too. what will you do when you hear your calling?

will you ignore it? or will you listen? peace corps. life is calling. how far will you go?

welcome back to mosaic. we're speaking with the worship director of the archdiocese of the area. we're talking about text changes in the mass. they're all contained in this 2000 page book, the roman missile, third edition. that's what it's called. 2000 pages of prayers. people in the pews get used to the text have been using hand outs. their parrishs are making them available to them. we have something to show for that, too. those have been helpful. some have the basics. some have a more comprehensive list. how is this for you, i have my instructions. why the reaction to the changes? >> well, it's, you know, we're

catholic, that is universal and so are the reactions. people love it and people resent it. most accept it and say, why are we doing this? let's get on with it. for me, we want people to pay more attention to what they're saying and doing. it's been a great opportunity to make people think about what they're saying. i'm guilty. i always used to say the our father and think of grocery shopping at the same time. multibraining. now, i know the responses within your spirit, if i'm thinking of something else, also with you slips out. this is making people be more deliberate about what we say and thinking about the words. there's been a lot of controversy about words. probably in the creed. i believe and that's different

and substantial with the father. what does that mean? well, great, let's think about it. what does it mean? why are we saying it? >> it means of the same essence. christ was the same essence of the father. it's a more formal language. it's an sat word. it's a difficult word. it makes people think twice. why are we saying that now? all the better. >> and you get to look at the new text every week, on going. and people are able to do all of that. >> when we look back to the vatican 2. i'm old enough to remember it. >> you were a lad. >> actually, is this a big enough change to createfections? >> no, i don't think so. it's not a change in the order

of mass, how we do mass, the out line hasn't changed. the words we used have changed. if someone wants to get really upset because we're saying, rather than of one being, come substantial and that's the reason for them to leave the church, there are other issues. it bring -- change brings out old history and emotions. i've not heard a single person say they're leaving because of this. the other thing is that the bishops of the united states and across the world have made an effort to prepare people for this. the vatican was a shotgun approach. some would switch to english and others wouldn't. it was a mitch mash.

people felt very confused. we've worked for 18 months to get it right. it's been on cnn. you go to yahoo and they're talking about the new mass. it's great, we're excited about it. we wanted to make sure people were aware of it. it doesn't mean that on christmas, people won't be shocked. they'll say, this isn't what i learned in catechism? >> well, it's a great time. we have to go in a little bit for a break. what didn't change? the church had great faith about readings. >> the readings are being revised. they're not changed. we'll have more readings at mass. that will come up and nothing else changed. the order of mass and why we say things a and when we stand and sit, all the same. >> we'll sneak away and when we return, we'll ask you that

question that you brought up, we're not alone in this. there are other faiths in these changes with us. we'll find out about that when we return on mosaic.

welcome back, today, we're talking about changes in the roman catholic mass. we're happy to be joined in this broadcast by people of many faiths. you've told me we're not alone and these changes have impacts on other religions.

obviously, the catholic charge always worked with christians and nonchristians. after vatican two, most of the groups were excited about the changes. they did things like adopting the speech. they appreciated the changes we made to the readings. they also adopted a lot of our prayers. if you go to many episcopal churches, they say the gloria that we said up until two weeks ago. they said, we changed to match you and you're changing without letting us know and we don't think we want to make the same changes. they feel we're out of sink. we've made changes without consultation and understanding the impact it would have on the fact that you can walk into other churches and say the same prayers.

that's upsetting to some. many of the orthodox brothers and sisters are excited about the changes. we've become more inline with what we say. particularly, the words of institution, we've changed words to line up more with the orthodox church. they're feeling, thank you, we're more in sink with the orthodox. it can cause hurt feelings and confusion. what we're trying to say is, the dialogue goes on. a gloria is a gloria and a creed is a creed. >> well, that's great to know there's the widespread interest in the changes. i have to ask you, everything seems contained in the book. >> pretty much. >> the 2000 page book. >> how many were printed? >> tens of thousands. every church, school, parrish,

chapel has to order two or three. we ordered several hundred. >> and the proofreaders are still in therapy. there i would think so. >> who does that printing? >> i mean, that's amazing. so many print. do we, as catholics do we get through the whole thing. >> there are pages in the back that are rarely used the ordination of the bishop. yeah, we start the beginning and there's prayers for sunday and many week days and anything that's in a feasorer a season. there are prayers for all of the saint's days. if you're watching someone, you'll start at the beginning, that's advent and as the time goes on, by the end of the year, you'll be through the end of the book.

then, we'll start over. that's how people get through it. >> the father tom borian, he's from philadelphia. he told me a story about a priest. who, in the day of the older mass, the last prayer of the mass was the last gospel. the priest would go over and read the last gospel. it was a laminated thing. and he would go down and leave. he had a button buy where the last gospel was. he would press the button and it would go off and the housekeeper put his eggs on. whatever happened to the last gospel. it's the first, right? >> yes, in fact, that's one of the changes when they changed the order of mass. one thing that the bishops wanted was to take out all of the exstrains you things.

what happened was, things that were minor, they took this important. the priest said this to himself. it was supposed to be a closing prayer. suddenly, everyone waited for it. they felt, that wasn't part of the mass. we never intended that to be a part of the mass. just like the prayers of the foot of the alter, they said, that's something we don't need everyone to do. >> exactly, there you go. >> we have about 20 seconds. what's the greatest thing about is this? >> it makes people realize what we're doing. >> it wakes people up. >> we'll take a break and be back.

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today, we're happy to be speaking about changes in the text of the roman catholic mass. taking us through the words is laura bertoni. i wish we had more time. >> no, you don't. i could talk about this for hours. >> i get to see you over in parking. >> i was talking about the text, the new missile, 2000 pages of what we're talking about. that means, you mean tens of thousands. does that mean we'll have to have tens of thousands of old missiles? >> we consider missiles to be sacramental and things used for worship. we have to destroy them. the way to destroy something blessed is by burning or burying. some of the churches are going

to burn the old ones and using them for ash wednesday. you can do that. these are so thick, it may take until then to burn it. >> and we've talked about that. >> we're working with catholic cemeteries to bury them. in, in fact, people are cleaning out their closets, i'm getting some from '65. >> and would there be a special rite when they're put down? >> no, when they're blessed, but not put down. maybe someone can sprinkle holly water on -- holy water on them? >> tens of thousands were printed. they're all over the country. >> not just in the united states. all of the other english speaking countries in the world. there are 10 others. scotland, australia, india. they had to order new books,

too. >> and as a faith, we sometimes don't want -- does this bring us closer together with the other english speaking countries? >> i think so. they asked that we had one translation. i was in london for five years and they had different words to their creed. they always tripped me up. but now you'll have the same ones. they're asking the same of other countries as well. they just finished a spanish translation. it won't be completely common, but the prayer, every spanish speaking country will use the same. it's nice to travel and walk into a church in australia and they'll use the same gloria and whether you're in argentina or spain, they'll use the same words.

we talked about one of the most reliable phrases. you said that the leader, his extension is 220. is that coincidence? >> i think that someone had a good sense of humor. >> you tell us, what have we missed? >> i would like people to know, this was something we expected to happen. it took 40 years. the old translation was a good record. and for people to really pay asection the, attention. now, people have to listen and watch for what they're saying. some of the new words are poetic. >> well, right now, we've continued to say things like god is the fountain of all holliness. now, we say, you're to be

praised from the rising of the sun to the setting. or from dawn to dusk. >> people mocked, send your gifts down like the dew fall. that's a beautiful image. in our world of texts and tweets and abbreviations, we forget about using these poetic words. that's more scriptural. we've changed the words to saying, i'm not going to have you enter under my roof. you're so wonderful, i can't imagine you coming into my home. it's ivocative. we're doing something fantastic when we go to a eucharist. this language is something we

can appreciate. >> console me now. what about those of us who miss certain words. my favorite phrase was, and those who left this world in your friendship. and it's gone? >> i'm sorry, but there are other words just as beautiful. and i'm looking forward to hearing what other words they enjoy and what strikes you. >> we're showing your phone number now. >> it's been wonderful having you here. we hope you'll come back again. i know where you live. >> yes. >> ten seconds, exhort us? >> i wish everyone a happy advent and merry christmas and we have a new great year and i hope they pay attention and know why we worship and give thanks to god, no matter your religion.

>> thank you, laura. thank you always for joining us on mosaic.