welcome to 2012. we're here with reverend ron switcher. we're going to look back at what's been going on. he's going to be the commentator today, rather than the host. ron, good to see you, happy new year. i'm glad you're wearing your new year's finery. >> trying to. >> let's talk about religious themes of the year's past, 2011 and looking forward to 2012. start us off?

>> this past year, probably "thyme" magazine hit the nail. they said that the protestor was the persons of the year. i think that the protests and in libya, egypt, syria still going on and then the occupy movement in new york and seattle and san francisco and oakland to san jose. i think we were also impacted, the religious community because of the great inequality that exists in the world. i think that we try to address it as others have. we haven't unnecessaried the leaders. some may have. in the civil rights movement, you had clear leaders. i don't think the leadership was this clear, but the goals of dealing with the injustice

and the concern of inequality was present. >> you're making a link as if they were a wave from the arab spring coming to america and then when it jumped into the ocean, it was the occupy movement. you were a part of that. i haven't been down. talk to us about what it was like to be in the movement. they were clergy as also? >> san francisco and oakland were active and involve and trying to address this. again, i don't know if the goals were clear as they were in civil right's movements. 44% of people in the country were for the movement, 46% were against. 59% were in favor of the message. the message, can we deal with the great gap between the rich and the poor and it's getting

greater. when we talk about justice, from the biblical point of view, that's meant economic justice, let my people go, the promised land, the milk and honey. that's something very much here and in the present. that's part of your message, whether we're muslim, christian, or jewish or whatever, we're concerned about the here and now. that's why we were in the movement, supported with prayer, you know, meeting with people, and just being there. i think that's part of what we try to do. again, with the leaders, somewhere, i know some were rested. in seattle, a number of clergy were arrested. >> you were a participant? >> yes. >> you chose not to go towards

the civil disobedience. stay with us. we're talking about the year's past.

>> >> we're talking about the themes of 2012 and we're talking about the occupy movement and the themes in that. a second big point? >> i think gay marriage. >> i thought we were done with that. >> well, a lot of denominations haven't been inclusive and they've tried to attack, and they're still split on the issue. the methodist church, my denomination is noninclusive. karl sandburg was asked, what

was the ugliest word in the english language and he said, inclusive. i think it's still a major issue. >> within the main line protestant churches at least, this idea comes back and not only gay marriage, but the ordination of transgender people. in the presbyterian church, they have the local option. it's basically on their terms, regardless of ethics, it doesn't mean that someone else on the otherside of the country needs to admit that person. this is a hugely realistic thing. hundreds of churches have taken this opportunity to say, you're not christian enough, we want

to leave your denomination. it gets down to property and it fractures the sense of it. do you have predictions as to which way this is going to go out? >> everyone hopes that everyone will be welcomed at the table and be able to come as they are. that's the hope. it doesn't seem that it's clear. in 2011, it didn't seem to be. you mentioned the presbyterian church. some said they wanted to leave and split because of it. the episcopalians went through the battle and now, they have gay and lesbian bishops. sometimes, you have to be willing to take the risk and dial the line. those of us involved in justice movement, rather if it's for civil rights or peace, we

believe we'll eventually prevail. if you're concerned about justice, you want everyone to be welcome at the table. >> right, and to be there. and another theme? >> well, inter faith. will we work together with the, you know, the muslims, with christians, with jews. morewe have active mormons and christian scientists and muslim community members. also, we have active catholics and rabbis. that's extremely important. again, i think we sometimes approach religion with, this is my way or the only way. if we can break down some barriers, there's possibilities of doing a lot of things in the world around us. in our church, we talk about

making disciples of jesus christ. wherever you may be in the transportation of the world, people need access to resources. people need opportunities and whether it's an education or housing. these kind of doors. religion has the impact also. >> if you have an active inner faith group, where do you start talking about this stuff? what's the conversation at the stable -- table. how do you broach all of this? >> it's very interesting. i think that a key is, i think we respect one another. that's where it begins. you have to feel that everyone has a voice. you're not there to argue and prove that one is more than the other.

>> each religion has two game claims. our way is the way. your way may be a way, but not the way. how do you deal with that reality at the table when the leaders are together? >> it's not always easy. at the premise, it's that you respect and that the premise is that you love one another as god loves us, that's a take off point -- love god with all our heart, mind, soul and strength. i think those are universal truths. sometimes, it's referred to as the golden rule. do unto others -- that's a way to relate to one another without insisting on, i have it

all. >> so, is your -- are you able to work on social programs or is this theological? how inner faith -- this community here in the bay area, where do you start? >> i think you touched on some of that. you do it through some out reach efforts for those who are the least, the last, the left out. some food programs, some ways of helping. particularly around the past season of christmas, and ways you can reach the homeless and those without. i think you can be united on those points. i think that's one way of coming together. everyone's hungry. there's always hungry people and homeless people and people who need help. that's one of the ways we try to work together.

theologically, there's not much discussion. sometimes, we do talk about our differences, i think we want to be united more than emphasizing the differences. it would be good, sometimes to talk about the theological differences more. i haven't found there's much in the two years i've been in this community. i found it's in the other parts of the bay area. >> and really, it's the theological part and that's an academia. they're trying to find their footing. if you're a member of a congregation, you'll probably start with a social program and something in common that you can do on a community basis. that's where we are. >> yeah. >> where we are is coming up after break. we'll be back.

we talked about the arab spring and the movement of the occupy movement. then, we got into lurism and -- pluralism and how it works in the bay area. for many, religion isn't the coming thing or organized religion. what's your take on that? >> well, i think that's a major concern, do we survive in the coming year, not only survive, but thrive as congregations and

churches and communities of faith. because, we mentioned to you earlier, 4000 churches close every year. a thousand new churches come around. that's great loss in numbers. we all know we're aging. we don't necessarily speak to the larger communities for various reasons. i think harvey cox coined the phrase, the secular city. that's where it started. it started within the enlightenment and the emphasis on progress and technology. a lot of that has been great. we don't want to go back to the dark ages. a lot referenced to the sacred and devine. how do we reach people when we seem like we're talking to a foreign language. >> if we throw out the science

-- and there are avenues of dialogue with a you will of the tech -- with all of the technology. i would say, why have a worshiping congregation at all? hasn't this all sort of passed by and left these old ideas and myths holding the bag. >> why be a part of it? >> well, that's a challenge. i feel that congregations offer a place of community and a place that's been described as home and help and healing -- out reach. also, small groups in which you can cultivate some of the things we still believe in, that's prayer and bible studies and the sacred text of that particular denomination or religion. i think we've gotten a lot of

the morality from that and our ethics and our beliefs from the religious community. some say we're spiritual, but not religious. the religion part of it is the part that can sometimes support the spirit. some don't have a community to cultivate the spiritual. how do you do it. we talk about the disciplines of the spirit. that means commitment and it means prayer and having a place where you can focus and learn about what it is to believe and what it is to be -- as we said in the text, faith without works is text. you need the faith and you need the works. the community faith that challenges you and brings the checks and balances helps

cultivate one spirit. >> and i think that it was that, different denominations were cultural carriers. several years ago, we had the greek orthodox church in oakland. they had the great greek festivals. that was also true in berkeley. there was an old blue and white norwegian church. they only spoke norwegian. no swedish. it also carried that. now, those streams are running into a secular diverse sense. i'm wondering, religion and faith as a cultural identity telling you where you are and when you leave, where do you get that or where do you meet people in different walks of life?

at work, you meet someone at soccer. do you have any thoughts about where this is going to go in the next five years? >> thomas freeman and michael mandlebomb have a book called "that used to be us." we used to be good at opening doors to immigrants and having diversity and good at education and we built the infrastructure and the roads and airports and now, all of that is in jeopardy. now, they mention the things we need to face in the future. we need to be about globalization and technology and the deficits we run in terms of government and state and city and so forth mr. foreman when i look at the church, i look at, what did we used to do and what are we going to do in the future.

some pillars we were strong at. you mentioned the culture amenity and fellowship and out reach how do we adjust to all of the change of the reference to the sacred, that's where the major challenges are that we face. can we get people interested in this devine demention. some say they will. there's a community that could do that. the church could offer that. >> the community of the sacred. i asked kids in sunday school where's heaven and they point up and hell, they point down. i say, yeah, it's around the globe. and -- it's a round globe and

if you're in china, where's up? what you're raising is the idea of obtaining the sacred where this spiritualty is more individualized. i don't need the group to tell me what's right and true. >> well, some of that is true. >> the effectiveness is when you can do some things clap rattily -- together. >> we have a number of people working in the booth for us. we're going to give it back to them and we'll see you in a few minutes.

you've been leading us through coming themes in the new year. we have a couple we want to talk about, the end of time, the mayan calendar? >> well, i've never been into that, the last days and so forth. i do believe that when you look at that, we always think it's doom and gloom, and the hope from the christian perspective is that it's joy, the bridegroom is coming. i think we never look at time and the end of time as something as a time of rejoicing and a time that will be a party, i think that's a good way to look at it, it's the joy instead of the end of time. >> i can't get there. i kind of like it here. i'm not interested in that. maybe the mayans brought a bunch of diseases and they finished one wheel and didn't get a chance to do the other?

i don't think it's going to end in 2012. >> well, i'm on the same page there. but i have others who come with the other message, left behind kind of thinking. >> and i think perhaps, that's a realization that sub consciously, the way things are going, it's not sustainable. we can't keep consuming everything and in all of this. talk about your pairish a little bit. >> st. marks united methodist church. i've been there two years and it's my 39th year in ministry. it's nice to go from the large oakland congregation and being the associate pastor at glie,

and now, that same church, we had about 40 members. great in out reach and great in fellowship and hospitality. i think we still need to grow in terms of numbers and in terms of spiritual development. i like bible studies and i have a great bible study, i think. people come and i want more of that to happen. 86% of the people in the country have a bible in their home, but how many read it and know what's in it. everyone who's a part of the community at my church needs to have an understanding about the bible and the scripture. >> what time is your sunday service? >> 10:30 every sunday morning. someone showed up from south africa at 10:00 last sunday. they came by the church. there's four churches along the road. they didn't have to take us.

asked what time and i said 10:30 and they stayed and seemed to be engaged. >> if you other going to hear reverend ron preach, you may have to go by other churches to get to his. how about the media campaign, come home! >> they're reaching 250 million people. the campaign has been successful and attendance has gone up. they're running the campaign all the way through january. and so, i'll see how they do. we protestants need something. >> and it's a longing and an invitation. >> in 2012, you may find yourself more confident and more blessed. happy new year to you. >> we've worked together 11

years. >> blessed new year, we'll see you again next week for mosaic.

my name is lucy liu, and i believe that number should be zero. believe in zero. join the effort. visit unicefusa.org.