captioning funded by cbs and ford-- built for the road ahead. >> inside, you feel like a part of you has been ripped out from losing a job. >> pelley: one third of the unemployed have been out of work for more than a year. it's been hard on them and the economy. but we found an experiment in retraining... >> the resume very soon will become an obsolete tool in the job search process. >> pelley: ...that may just offer a way back. you just got a new job. >> yes, i did. brings a smile to my face.

>> pelley: i see that. >> stahl: harvard's irving kirsch has thrown a bomb into the medical establishment. his research challenges the effectiveness of antidepressants, which are taken by 17 million americans, which he says don't work, for most people, any better than a sugar pill. but people are getting better taking anti-depressants. i know them. >> oh, yes. >> stahl: we all know them. >> people get better when they take the drug. but it's not the chemical ingredients of the drugs that are making them better. it's largely the placebo effect. >> simon: magnus carlsen is the best in the world. just look at what he's doing. competing against ten players simultaneously. that in itself is not extraordinary, but magnus cannot see the boards. he's facing the other way. so he has to keep track of the positions of 320 pieces blind.

and the number of possible moves? infinite. ( applause ) it transcends chess. i mean, i just can't fathom what you've done. it seems supernatural. >> i'm steve kroft. >> i'm lesley stahl. >> i'm morley safer. >> i'm bob simon. >> i'm lara logan. >> i'm scott pelley. those stories tonight on "60 minutes." as the years go by, some questions loom large. are you prepared for your retirement years - 25 or more of them? do you have a financial plan for you family that works, in good times and in bad times? having the right perspective can help you answer the big questions. for more than 140 years, pacific life has helped find answers for those navigating the path to financial security. ask a financial professional about pacific life - the power to help you succeed.

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>> pelley: we've seen some improvement in the job market lately. but there's something stubborn about unemployment. never in the last 60 years has the length of joblessness been this long. four million people, a full third of the unemployed, have been out of work more than a year. they've been severed from the workforce. ben bernanke, chairman of the federal reserve, calls it "a national crisis."

to understand what's happening, we went to stamford, connecticut, to see an experiment that might just offer a way back for americans trapped in unemployment. >> frank o'neill: they started to go through round after round of lyoffs, and i got caught in one of the layoffs there. >> pelley: the great recession arrived early for frank o'neill. >> o'neill: it was a cold day in february. >> pelley: it was february, 2008. o'neill was a credit consultant for an i.t. company. what happened? >> o'neill: they called me into the vice president's office. and he basically told me that they were having some financial difficulty and told me that my last day was going to be that day. i got a small, little severance out of it and was off into the world of the unemployed. >> pelley: what have the last three years been like for you? >> o'neill: you have those moments, you know, where you're the only one in the house, and you're sitting in front of the computer looking for a job and you go, "when's this ever going to break for me?"

>> pelley: how many people have signed up for unemployment? everybody. no one we met in stamford expected to be out of work this long. how many have run to the end of the unemployment benefits? everyone. those unemployment benefits end after 99 weeks. these folks have been out of work two years, three, even four. they're college educated professionals in their 40s or 50s, people who thought their company would take them all the way to retirement. vernon? >> vernon downes: i was very angry. i was very bitter. i was fed up with society, the corporate world, the lies, deceit, the greed. >> pelley: they don't look it, but they have fallen out of the middle class-- turned in cars, gone on food stamps, taken kids out of college, and faced foreclosure. now, they've pinned their last hopes on joe carbone. >> joe carbone: the word "carnage" is a strong word, but

i can't think of a better word, in this case, and what aggravates me is that there isn't outrage. we ought to be angry. we ought to be giving every moment of our time figuring out how we're going to restore, for them, the american dream. >> pelley: joe carbone is president of something called the workplace. it's the state unemployment office in southwest connecticut where people get job training and placement help. carbone has a reputation for innovative job programs. but he has never seen so many people out of work so long. >> carbone: there is no comparison to being unemployed for six months and being unemployed for 99 weeks. your needs change in a drastic way. >> pelley: and what is the change? >> carbone: the change is the mind. that two years of unemployment erodes your self-confidence, your self-esteem. it separates you from your profession, your education, whatever you might have done previously.

there's all sorts of things. it causes divorces. it causes problems with children. >> pelley: what's insidious is how hidden these people are. carbone's territory has some of the richest towns in the nation. the commuter lines are arteries to the heart of corporate power in new york. but a lot of people walking around in suits haven't had a job in years. >> carbone: my job is to get people into a career. >> pelley: carbone has more than 12,000 who have spent their last unemployment check with no where to go. >> carbone: i can't tell you how this bothers me. i can't tell you what this has done to me. it's not just the numbers. it's... scott, it's the stories that you've heard. >> inside, you feel like a part of you has been ripped out from losing a job. >> pelley: this is how joe carbone intends to restore their american dream. he calls it "platform to employment." it's a half-million dollar program that he raised the money for from businesses and

charities. we went along for five weeks as a class of 28 learned how to claw their way back to employment. >> downes: i was so ashamed to reach out for help because i felt discouraged. i felt ashamed that i had failed. >> pelley: vernon downes was a project manager for a company that made medical devices. he's been working to find a job for two and a half years. >> downes: i've done everything that i was told to do-- the education, the certification-- and i still couldn't get a job. >> pelley: he's on food stamps, found work with a landscape company, and was glad to get it. >> downes: so then i said "okay, if i have to do leaf blowing to get some sort of an income, i'm willing to do that." and that's what i'm doing and that's how i get by day to day. >> pelley: did any of you wonder whether you were the only one? >> yeah. absolutely. >> diane graham: it was a very isolating experience for me. >> pelley: diane graham was an executive assistant. for three years, she's been

scraping together part-time work. but she's on food stamps, and she had to move in with her sister. >> graham: i was possibly looking at... looking at homelessness. so, i... i was terrified. >> carbone: our goal objective of platform to employment-- "p2e"-- is to reconnect you to the workforce. >> pelley: they're in class four days a week, and the very first thing they learned was to confront their fears and depression. >> graham: for me, it's been just debilitating fear that i won't be able to take care of myself. >> carbone: the resume-- the resume very soon will become an obsolete tool in the job search process. >> pelley: they were introduced to how much has changed since the last time they got a job. >> carbone: when they're considering hiring you for a job, they're going to go to the internet and see what comes up. if you have nothing that shows up, you're not relevant. >> pelley: they practiced job interviews. >> i'm noticing a gap, frank. it's looking really good up

until about 2008, so could you give me a little explanation about what happened there. >> pelley: and they learned to navigate the new bias, the unspoken reason they've been turned down again and again. did you ever have the sense that you and others were being discriminated against because of how long you'd been unemployed? >> o'neill: there's no doubt. i mean, i've seen it in print, whether it's some newspaper ads or online during those types of advertisements, i've actually seen, "if you are unemployed, you need not apply." >> pelley: just look at the web. you see the phrase everywhere, "must be currently employed." businesses can't legally discriminate by age, race or sex, but there's a new minority group now, the long-term unemployed. everybody knows we're in a terrible state in this country. why would a stigma attach to being unemployed for a year or two or three?

>> carbone: i mean, there's a sense that, if a person's out of work for a year or longer, they might be lazy; they might very well be people that would prefer to be home; or "they've lost too much already to be useful to me." it's unfair and it's wrong. we can use a search bar on facebook. >> pelley: platform to employment was a little like boot camp. >> carbone: there's hundreds of social media sites, but linkedin, it's the number one for anything professional. >> "managing director, ibm." >> pelley: and over time, we saw something new-- confidence. >> downes: what the program has done for me, it brought vernon back. i know who i am. i know this is the vernon that i know. that other person, for the past post-2009, i didn't know who that was. so i'm back. i'm back in the game. >> o'neill: i was so prideful and so stubborn that i would not apply for part-time positions. i wasn't going to go work at the grocery store nearby, i wasn't

going to go flip burgers. "i have a college education, i've been successful at work, i've been working for 30 years. i'm not doing this." so, when this opportunity for platform to employment came along, i joined it and it changed my mindset. >> pelley: after the classes are over, platform to employment opens the door on its biggest innovation-- it's an internship with a business that's looking to hire. tell me what that first day was like walking through the door. >> o'neill: it was nice to be a part of the workforce, having to go to work in the morning, rather than get up in the morning and go look for work. >> pelley: here, the office intern isn't a college student, he's 50-something, educated and experienced. for eight weeks, frank o'neill would work at cain management, which owns fast food restaurants. platform to employment pays o'neill's salary. what do you have to prove, and

how do you think that's going to work out? >> o'neill: they told me right off the bat, "we have a job and it's got to get done. and you need to prove yourself that you're the person who can get this job done for us." >> pelley: fair enough. >> o'neill: absolutely. all we're looking for is an opportunity. >> pelley: 100 people are enrolled in platform to employment and, after five months, 53 have jobs. vernon downes found work in his field, information technology, at a company called career resources. diane graham got a call. after three years of hearing "no," she didn't know how to respond to "yes." >> graham: the manager called me. you know, he gave me the brief details. "we'd like to have you on board, like to start monday." and i... i really froze on the phone. and i think he... he sensed it, because he said to me, "you know, you take few minutes to think about it and call me back." and i... and when i hung up the phone, i'm like, "is... are you crazy? what do i have to think about?" i was just really, really in shock.

i was just not expecting it all. >> good to see you. >> pelley: she's working at lex products, which makes power systems for industry. >> graham: being in the hustle bustle of everybody going to work-- i missed that. i truly missed it. >> pelley: it's not just about a paycheck. >> graham: no. no, no. wherein, in the past, it might have been, but this has become about my dignity. >> pelley: and at the end of his internship, frank o'neill heard from the boss. you just got a new job. >> o'neill: yes, i did. brings a smile to my face. >> pelley: i see that. where do you see yourself three months from now? employed? >> yeah. yes. yes. >> pelley: yes? oh, everybody. on graduation day, there was quite a change in the people that we first met that first day in class. >> vernon downes. ( applause ) >> pelley: joe carbone hopes his experiment might be a model for the other four million and counting whose lives have been

broken by the great recession. i wonder if you have a message to all of those people, the 38,000 people a week who join this group, who've run out of their unemployment checks and still have no prospects? >> carbone: i can't promise people jobs, but i can promise that we've taken a big step. and the steps will continue. i want them to know that help is on the way. we're not going to stop until the issue is addressed in a fair and honorable, honest and american way. [ male announcer ] what if you had thermal night-vision goggles, like in a special ops mission? you'd spot movement, gather intelligence with minimal collateral damage. but rather than neutralizing enemies in their sleep, you'd be targeting stocks to trade. well, that's what trade architect's heat maps do. they make you a trading assassin. trade architect. td ameritrade's empowering, web-based trading platform.

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>> stahl: the medical community is at war, battling over the scientific research and writings of a psychologist named irving kirsch. the fight is about antidepressants and kirsch's questioning of whether they work. kirsch's views are of vital interest to the 17 million americans who take the drugs, including children as young as six, and to the pharmaceutical industry that brings in $11.3 billion a year selling them. irving kirsch is the associate director of the placebo studies program at harvard medical school, and he says that his

research challenges the very effectiveness of antidepressants. >> irving kirsch: the difference between the effect of a placebo and the effect of an antidepressant is minimal for most people. >> stahl: and you're saying, if they took a sugar pill, they'd have the same effect? >> kirsch: they'd have almost as large an effect, and whatever difference there would be would be clinically insignificant. >> stahl: but people are getting better taking antidepressants. i know them. >> kirsch: oh, yes. >> stahl: we all know them. >> kirsch: people get better when they take the drug. but it's not the chemical ingredients of the drugs that are making them better. it's largely the placebo effect. >> stahl: irving kirsch's specialty has been the study of the placebo effect-- the taking of a dummy pill without any medication in it that creates an expectation of healing that is so powerful, symptoms are actually alleviated. >> kirsch: this is the placebo response... >> stahl: kirsch, who's been studying placebos for 36 years,

says sugar pills can work miracles. >> kirsch: placebos are great for treating a number of disorders-- irritable bowel syndrome, repetitive strain injuries, ulcers, parkinson's disease. >> stahl: even traumatic knee pain. in this clinical trial, some patients with osteoarthritis underwent knee surgery, while others had their knees merely opened and then sewn right back up. >> kirsch: and here's what happened. in terms of walking and climbing, the people who got the placebo actually did better... >> stahl: come on. >> kirsch: ...than the people who got the real surgery. >> stahl: no. >> kirsch: and that lasted for a year. at two years after surgery, there was no difference at all between the real surgery and the sham surgery. >> stahl: is it all in your head or...? >> kirsch: well, it's not all in your head, because the placebos can also affect your body. so if you take a placebo tranquilizer, you're likely to have a lowering of blood pressure and pulse rate. placebos can decrease pain. and we know that's not all in the mind also, because we can track that using neuro-imaging in the brain, as well.

>> stahl: he says the doctors who prescribe the pills become part of the placebo effect. >> kirsch: a clinician who cares, who takes the time, who listens to you, who asks questions about your condition and pays attention to what you say, that's the kind of care that can help facilitate a placebo effect. >> stahl: he says he got into researching the effect of antidepressants by accident. >> kirsch: i was interested in evaluating the size of the placebo effect. i really didn't even care about the drug effect because everybody, including me, knew it worked. i used to refer patients to get prescriptions. i didn't change the focus of my work onto looking at the drug effect until i saw the data from our first analysis. >> stahl: what he saw was that it almost didn't matter what kind of pill doctors gave patients. >> kirsch: we even looked at drugs that are not considered antidepressants-- tranquilizers, barbiturates. and do you know what? they had the same effect as the antidepressants.

>> stahl: come on. >> kirsch: really. >> stahl: kirsch was so surprised by his initial findings, he decided to do a second study using data not only from the drug companies' clinical trials that had been published in medical journals. this time, he got data that weren't published but had been submitted to the fda, which he got through the freedom of information act. >> kirsch: these are the studies that showed no benefit of the antidepressant over the placebo. what they did is they took the more successful studies, they published most of them. they took their unsuccessful studies and they didn't publish them. >> stahl: so when you did your study, you put all the trials together? >> kirsch: that's right. >> stahl: you're looking at patients who took the real drug and patients who took the placebo. >> kirsch: yes. >> stahl: did they get equally better, or did the ones who took the pills get even a little better? >> kirsch: if they were mildly

or moderately depressed, you don't see any real difference at all. the only place where you get a clinically meaningful difference is at these very extreme levels of depression. >> stahl: now look, psychiatrists say the drug works. >> kirsch: right. >> stahl: the drug companies and their scientists say the drug works. maybe you're wrong. >> kirsch: maybe. i'd add to that, by the way, patients say the drugs work. >> stahl: patients say the drug works. >> kirsch: and, for the patients and the psychiatrists, it's clear why they would say the drug works. they take the drug, they get better. our data show that, as well. >> stahl: you're just saying why they get better. >> kirsch: that's right. and the reason they get better is not because of the chemicals in the drug. the difference between drug and placebo is very, very small, and in half the studies, non- existent. >> stahl: kirsch and his studies have triggered a furious counterattack, mainly from psychiatrists, who are lining up to defend the use of antidepressants. like dr. michael thase, a

professor of psychiatry at the university of pennsylvania school of medicine, who has been a consultant to many of the drug companies. irving kirsch says that depressants are no better than placebo for the vast majority of people with depression, the vast majority. do you agree with that? >> dr. michael thase: no. no, i don't agree. i think you're confusing, or he's confusing, the results of studies versus what goes on in practice. >> stahl: he says that kirsch's statistical analysis overlooks the benefits to individual patients. >> thase: have a seat. >> stahl: and while he agrees there's a substantial placebo effect... >> thase: have you been keeping track of your depression scores? >> stahl: ...especially for the mildly depressed, using a different methodology, he finds that the drugs help 14% of those moderately depressed, and even more for those severely depressed. >> thase: our own work indicates pretty convincingly that this is a large and meaningful effect

for a subset of the patients in these studies. >> stahl: but even by your own numbers, more people-- maybe twice as many people-- are having a placebo effect than are actually being helped by the drug. >> thase: that's correct. >> stahl: in the moderate range? >> thase: that's correct. >> stahl: and this isn't troubling to you? >> thase: i wish our antidepressants were stronger. i hope we have better ones in the future. but that 14% advantage over and above the placebo is for a condition that afflicts millions of people, that represents hundreds of thousands of people who are better parents, who are better workers, who are happier, and who are less likely to take their life. >> stahl: since the introduction of prozac in the 1980s, prescriptions for these drugs have soared 400%... >> i used to be happy. i remember being happy... >> stahl: ...with the drug companies having spent billions over the years advertising them. i don't know about you, but i'm seeing more women running through daisy fields after looking morose than ever before.

>> dr. walter brown: absolutely. there's a lot of hype out there. >> stahl: dr. walter brown is a clinical professor of psychiatry at brown university's medical school. he has co-authored two studies that largely corroborate kirsch's findings. >> brown: the number of antidepressant prescriptions over the last decade has increased and, most troublesome, the biggest increase is in the mildly depressed, who are the ones who are least likely to benefit from them. >> stahl: he says they're getting virtually no benefit from the chemical in the pill. like most experts, he says these drugs do work for the severely depressed, but he questions the widely held theory that depression is caused by a deficiency in the brain chemical called serotonin, which most of these pills target. >> brown: the experts in the field now believe that that theory is a gross oversimplification and probably is not correct. >> stahl: and the whole idea of

antidepressants is built around this theory? >> brown: yes, it is. >> stahl: to approve any drug, the food and drug administration merely requires that companies show their pill is more effective than a placebo in two clinical trials, even if many other drug trials failed. >> brown: the f.d.a., for antidepressants, has a fairly low bar. a new drug can be no better than placebo in ten trials, but if two trials show it to be better, it gets approved. >> stahl: does that make sense to you? >> brown: that's not the way i would do it if i were the king, but i'm not. ( laughs ) >> stahl: dr. tom laughren, director of the fda's division of psychiatry products, defends the approval process. we're told you discard the negatives. is that not right? >> dr. tom laughren: we consider everything that we have. we look at those trials individually. >> stahl: but how are you

knowing that the two positives deserve bigger strength in the decision? >> laughren: getting that finding of a positive study by chance, if there isn't really an effect, is very low. that's... i mean, that's basic statistics, and that's the way clinical trials are interpreted. a separate question is whether or nor the effect that you're seeing is clinically relevant. >> stahl: okay. is it clinically relevant? >> laughren: the data that we have shows that the drugs are effective. >> stahl: but what about the degree of effectiveness? >> laughren: i think we all agree that the changes that you see in the short-term trials, the difference between improvement in drug and placebo, is rather small. >> stahl: it's a moderate difference. >> laughren: it's a small... it's a modest difference. >> stahl: it's so modest that, in great britain, the national health service decided to dramatically revamp the way these drugs are prescribed.

it did so after commissioning its own review of clinical trials. >> dr. tim kendall: we came to the conclusion that, for mild to moderate depression, these drugs probably weren't worth having. >> stahl: at all. >> kendall: not really. >> stahl: dr. tim kendall, a practicing psychiatrist and co- director of the commission that did the review, says that, like irving kirsch, they were surprised by what they found in the drug companies' unpublished data. >> kendall: with the published evidence, it significantly overestimated the effectiveness of these drugs and it underestimated the side effects. >> stahl: the fda would say that some of these unpublished studies are unpublished because there were flaws in the way the trials were conducted. >> kendall: this is a multi- billion dollar industry. i doubt that they are spending $10 million per trial to come up with a poor methodology. what characterizes the unpublished is that they're

negative. now, i don't think it's that their method is somehow wrong; it's that their outcome is not suitable, from the company's point of view. >> stahl: because of the review, new public health guidelines were issued. now, drugs are given only to the severely depressed as the first line of treatment. for those with mild to moderate depression, the british government is spending nearly half a billion dollars training an army of talk therapists. >> if you want to go a little faster, you can. >> stahl: physical exercise is another treatment prescribed for the mildly depressed. >> kendall: by the end of ten weeks, you get just as good a change in their depression scores as you do at the end of ten or 12 weeks with an antidepressant. >> stahl: none of the drug companies we spoke to was willing to go on camera, but eli lilly told us in an email that drug trials show antidepressants work better than placebos over

the long term, and that "numerous studies have shown that patients on placebos are more likely to relapse" back into depression. the industry's trade association, phrma, wrote us: "antidepressants have been shown to be tremendously effective." but if irving kirsch has his way, the drug companies will have to completely rethink their $11.3 billion business. you're throwing a bomb into this. this is huge, what you're saying. >> kirsch: i know that. the problem is that you can get the same benefit without drugs. i think more are beginning to agree, and i think things have begun to change. >> stahl: everyone in this story says that, if you're depressed, you should see your doctor, and if you're already on these powerful drugs, you shouldn't stop taking them on your own. >> go to 60minutesovertime.come to hear more about how the powerful placebo effect works.

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>> simon: magnus carlsen is the best in the world. he is a 21-year-old norwegian, reigns supreme in a sport played by 500 million people. it's chess. many don't think of it as a sport because nobody moves, but chess masters will tell you it can be more brutal than boxing. that's because, at the championship level, the objective is not only to win, but to demolish your opponent. that can take hours. the best players need extraordinary endurance, so most of them are young. magnus is the youngest number one ever. and no one can explain to you how he does what he does.

it seems to come from another world, which is why he's become known as the "mozart of chess." just look at what he is doing-- competing against ten players simultaneously. that, in itself, is not extraordinary. but magnus cannot see the boards; he's facing the other way. so he has to keep track of the positions of 320 pieces blind. and the number of possible moves? infinite. ( applause ) magnus comes out on top. that's the most amazing thing i've ever seen. do you have any idea how extraordinary this looks to... >> magnus carlsen: no. it's one of the amazing things in chess that you can... you

don't really need the board. you can just keep it... >> simon: but it... it transcends chess. i mean, i just can't fathom what you've just done. it's just... >> carlsen: uh-huh. >> simon: ...it seems like it's supernatural. last december, we caught up with him at the london chess classic. he arrives with his constant companion, his father. magnus will play against eight other top-ranked players. but he is the star, as celebrated in this world as eli manning is in his. >> the world number one player-- from norway, magnus carlsen. >> simon: today, magnus is playing america's number one, hikaru nakamura. the match will last four hours, and there will be no breaks. magnus will go on a stroll now and then, but his mind won't be going anywhere. he says he's concentrating not only on this game, but on other games played by other masters at other times, which he might want

to draw on now-- 10,000 of them. we gave him a test. >> carlsen: it was played right here in london-- simpson's on the strand in 1859. i don't know the month or day. >> simon: you got it wrong. >> carlsen: not '59? >> simon: '51. >> carlsen: wow. >> simon: you see, mem... your memory isn't... >> carlsen: it's not... it's not what it used to be. ( laughs ) >> simon: chess players are pretty poker-faced. but occasionally, magnus will flash the smile of someone who knows it's all over but the handshake, while nakamura dives deeper into doom. magnus was playing brilliantly and he knew it. is there anything in life more satisfying than that feeling when you're playing brilliantly? >> carlsen: i don't know. but it's... it's really, you know, up there. ( laughter ) >> simon: it's pretty good. >> carlsen: yes. >> simon: the spectators seem as mesmerized as the competitors.

they're all chess players, of course. if they weren't, it would be like watching paint dry. worldwide, 100,000 are watching on their computers. the suspense keeps building until endgame, by which time, it's cutthroat. but do you enjoy it when you see your opponent squirm? >> carlsen: yes. i... i do. i enjoy it when i see my opponent, you know, really suffering when he knows that i've outsmarted him. if i lose just one game, then usually, you know, i just want to really get revenge. >> simon: this is war, isn't it? >> carlsen: yeah. >> simon: for 50 years, chess was war. it was a battleground in the cold war with the russians, who were dominant. but then, an american came along. his name was bobby fischer. in 1972, he took on the russian champion boris spassky, and he won.

it was an international spectacle. and the enthusiasm has not waned. back in london, just down the corridor from where magnus is playing, 500 novices are learning how to master kings and queens. do you ever play any grownups? >> yes. yes, i do play grownups. in fact, i'm getting the hang of playing grownups. >> simon: who's your favorite chess player? >> bobby fischer. >> simon: bobby fischer? >> yeah. >> and i like magnus carlsen. >> simon: you like magnus. >> yeah. >> simon: chess is now routinely taught in schools all over the world, including the united states. in some countries, it's compulsory. chess can be taught, but not genius. magnus seemed like a normal enough kid growing up outside oslo. but wait a minute-- when he was five, he could name almost all the countries in the world and

their capitals and their populations. magnus's father, henrik, didn't think that was terribly unusual. >> henrik carlsen: he did have a good memory, and the ability to concentrate for hours at a time on the specific topic. and he seemed to be interested in a lot of things, new things, all the time. but i thought that was normal. >> simon: what got him into chess? sibling rivalry. his older sister started to play, so he wanted to beat her, which he did, quickly. then, he started winning tournaments. before long, he became a celebrity, one of the first norwegians to excel in a sport that did not involve snow. people lined up in shopping malls to play him. when he won, magnus said it was just a game, no big deal. he couldn't understand why people were making such a fuss. >> carlsen: why does... why do all people want to talk with little me?

>> simon: magnus's parents took him and his sisters out of school for a year, rented out their house, sold their car. it was part holiday, mostly chess. they went to reykjavik, iceland, which is where magnus took a leap into legend when he was matched against gary kasparov, the russian considered by many to be the greatest ever. and how did magnus prepare? by reading up. kasparov kept the 13-year-old kid waiting for half an hour, and when he did arrive, he didn't even say hello. it was speed chess, the formula- one of the sport, a race against the clock. kasparov started slow. magnus started getting bored. >> carlsen: i sat there for a few seconds, and then i thought to myself, "you know what? i don't know why he's thinking. but i know what my response is going to be, anyway.

so i'll just walk off and watch the other games." kasparov had never played anyone so young. but he did not exude confidence or happiness, and he did not win. magnus played him to a draw. it was a sensation. kasparov left quickly. no "nice game, kid", nothing. how did magnus react? guess. he thought he had blown it. >> carlsen: when i actually got to winning position, i... i had little time, i was nervous, and i couldn't finish him off. >> simon: why were you nervous? >> carlsen: i was playing kasparov. i was in... intimidated. >> simon: you were... you were intimidated by playing the world's champion when you were already 13 years old? >> carlsen: yeah. go figure. ( laughter ) >> simon: it warranted a celebration, of course, and magnus got to choose. >> carlsen: yes. i went to my family and had some ice cream at mcdonald's. >> simon: by the time he was 19,

the boy with the ice cream had become number one in the world. >> frederic friedel: he has a very deep understanding of chess. >> simon: frederic friedel's company, chess base, publishes the world's most popular chess program. is this an indication of genius? >> friedel: of genius and raw talent. now, magnus has... still hasn't reached his peak. he hasn't really worked yet. >> simon: i've heard him described as lazy, which i find quite extraordinary. >> friedel: i mean, that's an impolite term, but it's probably appropriate. >> simon: except when it's not. magnus plays soccer whenever he can break away from the board. he's got a mean backhand, and he is also moonlighting as a model. there's never been much money in chess, but magnus is changing that. sponsors are lining up to endorse him. he's making about a million and a half dollars a year.

but it's a solitary life. magnus is on the road 200 days a year now. between matches, he is alone in his hotel room getting ready for tomorrow's game. he works out almost every day, knows he can't concentrate for what's often seven hours unless he's in shape. magnus says he wouldn't be able to tolerate this life if it weren't for his father, who is always there for him. when you travel with magnus, what's your role? >> henrik carlsen: i'm a servant and a chess fan. >> simon: you enjoy the games? >> henrik carlsen: yes. >> simon: and so, he says, does magnus. boy, when you look at him, when i look at him, "enjoyment" is not the word that comes to mind. ( laughter ) >> henrik carlsen: it should. maybe you have to compare it to a writer or a painter. i mean, probably, if you see them at work, they... they're

not smiling or having an easy time. they're exploiting their mind to the utmost. and the same with the chess players. >> simon: but that level of concentration is not danger- free. a fair number of grandmasters have gone mad, which is what happened to bobby fischer in his later years. >> bobby fischer: this was not an arrest. this was a kidnapping. it was all cooked up. >> simon: do you ever think about that? >> magnus carlsen: yes, i do. you know, when i was watching the... the recent film about bobby fischer, i was thinking, you know, "is this going to be me in... in a few years?" i don't think that's going to happen. but... but, you know, it made me... made me think a little bit that, you know, i have to... to be aware of this, at least. >> simon: people have described you as the "mozart of chess." how do you react to that? >> magnus carlsen: yeah.

maybe. but... but was mozart ever asked how he does this? i... i don't... i... i would be very impressed if... if he had a good answer to that. because i think what he would say is that just... "it just comes natural to me... natural to me. it's what i do." >> simon: which is what you say. >> magnus carlsen: yeah. >> simon: it's what he does for fun, too, at the oslo chess club where he started. he is playing a norwegian grandmaster here. it's called bullet chess and magnus has a handicap. his opponent is given three minutes to make his moves; magnus has one. it's just a friendly match, but magnus always hates to lose, so he doesn't. you got him? >> carlsen: yeah. so -- tell me again what happened.

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