good morning. it's always a privilege to host mosaic and this sunday morning doing it many years creek for the station for having us. i would like to welcome some of my members from community knighted united methodist church in fairfield. some of them said they would get up this morning and walked just if not they will be taking it some other way we welcome you. today talking to dr. howard thurman one of the great religious giants of our time and we are fortunate to have one of the pastors who pastor at this church as he founded back in

1944. it's been here active and still very much alive and a colleague of mine and friend reverend bleak as the pastor since the '90s great to see you. not a lot to say to you how much i appreciate your work not only is a pastor the host for 11 years now. thank you for your commitment and your creativity we went to seminary together and before you started pastor in the church of the fellowship of all the people what has been your attorney? upon graduation for six months of work as the assistant to the president of the center for urban black studies and at

that time the university of alabama wasn't integrated in terms of faculty except in terms of the school of business. there was an effort by the chair of the department to integrate especially the college of arts and sciences and they're looking for someone to do that. he is from alabama and work and was in a colleague of dr. king was vice president of the black clergy group in the bay area socially oriented and active. dr. williams was the president to the bishop told dr. williams they're looking for someone to integrate the university of alabama that a fetus to enter somebody and i was chosen. i had two weeks to be there and i stayed there five and a half

years. which was quite an experience especially coming from the bay area and the activity in action of the area and how radical people were in the bay area and then to go to alabama. i taught religious studies introductory courses to religious studies and dealt with black religion i taught courses on the list darkness and a course called to religion and social institutions and the university of alabama had a creative three weeks between in the regular school beginning of summer school and you could do all kinds of creative things so i designed a course called the black preacher and civil rights movement were able to go to different points and an atlanta

limit king's father and many others. digit everything could come back to the bay area? yes. the experience in alabama was wonderful was one of tremendous growth and understanding and it was one that in many ways was shocking in some ways because it is still very very very racist in many ways. and a first and then went to buy a car the word boy assist 1972 so there are those kinds of things i had to get used to and some friends and alabama to limit that's the way it was there i imagine that kind of experience you were aware of what i did expect for

example of the 7475 because it taught the course some black religion to go to black churches to the students experience black religion and then one day we saw a sign we heard about the fact the was a white church having a revival and invited everybody to attend summer class decided to go to that but we were not allowed in we have to take a break by what to come back to that and then how you end up being the pastor that church for the fellowship of all people with dr. howard thurman church. please join us and we get back.

welcome back.

within talking to the rev. lake about dr. howard thurman in the church of publishable peoples. how did you end up in the pastor there what happened and alabama was after the incident rejected by the church and a few years later decided to return to the bay area and to work, ph.d.. i was unsure as going to return to the bay area i looked at other places in the wasn't sure i was going to return in religion there was a the things that was looking at what happened was in the process of all this the received a call from dr. howard thurman who told me that he had heard that i was going to return to the bay area to do ph.d. work which i hadn't decided yet. some asked me if i would come and work with them at the howard thurman trust in terms of where

i was going to go to school because you receive a call from him asking you to come work with them what you do you sell works with him for years a program director of the howard thurman trust. finally left the program and took a position that campus ministry in ohio and then some years later it was a part of the theological union sort of the black church component so i was there wall mr. thurman called me and indicated that the church is having very serious problems. you cannot mention, your charismatic leader like dr. thurman won the critics speakers is hypnotic when he

speaks into the church was not doing very well at all to be quite honest and i was asked to come to help them decide with their were going to do in the future because it didn't have the finances to have anyone employed full time its 2041 alert in st. not very far from here in san francisco. between broadway and vallejo and she asked me to come over and help them decide what to to the terms of may be operating to send is a month or whenever but the meeting to discuss with the board that this never occurred next phone call was from her asking me to come and preach because the minister was leaving at the end of september she asked if i could be the first sunday in october and her style purchase to give this a sense of

continuity and that was in '92. i've been there since then she kept asking me to come back and some people do not know a church for the fellowship or dr. howard thurman so tell us what is the draw that makes him so dynamic? first of all of the reasons they don't know him is that he did spend a lot of this time of the initially with harvard university and so on who came to the church of the eligible people it is totally independent which means there's no connections with other national structures in the methodist church the baptist church but the convention to meet other people that did not happen with him because it is so isolated. there when he left the fellowship church to a to boston university was in a

predominantly white institutions and so i think in terms of black community there was not as much information about him as the prohibition of been. in a white community are talking about racism to is the author of 21 books on a scholar minutes 21 bucks to hear about that scholar and a think it was part of it also. the churches integrated international into religion not a religious it was founded in 1944 to a great extent because the person who initiated the move was a white professor of sampras's christi college at that time. who is trying to bring people together across racial lines within the presbyterian church.

dr. thurmond visited in gone the and 36 pence on the way back from indiana experience of terms of the unity of people and so he kept thinking about one of these is to have to put this into practice. from all backgrounds national backgrounds and racial backgrounds and the idea was that if people could come together and experience profound religious experiences over a sufficient time duration that there would emerge among them a sense of common ground that would undercut all of the barriers and that they give behind fellowship church. not so much what you believed that come here and let us know you ever going to find out that there is some basic congress of

the heart that we all have been a basic underlying unity that we all have unleashed celebrate that. the idea was that if we can do this in religion and religious services than during the week you take that into your work place and your everyday living in that way influence the social structures and so on the and here's the civil-rights constitution in a way there was the way to break the some of the barriers. in 1944 segregation was the law of the land was the reality and this is one way that he thought that we could relate make a visible the common ground of all peoples. do sex's some of the women also pastures with him over the years. later carol nelson was the pastor there.

and he was a very committed to woman's obliteration. he named his first daughter after her. were going to take another break but please continue to join us with mosaic.

thank you for joining us here at mosaics. the net the life of dr. howard thurman and we just touched on the surface when asking to mention some of his books he's written 21 books. the one that stands out

most is jesus and the disinherited. and their reason is the fact that it is so meaningful to me when i first read it because we're right school together this is these regrate years and school and so i think i was struggling with the relationship and that fire was in seminary between the church and the larger society. and also trying to combat what many people thought was the essence of black religion on the worldliness. this is the time i was like first encountered the book that helped me understand that jesus was about about dealing with social realities that he was a jew a porch to and a portion of

living under roman domination. and many ways he is just like we were in the book was written to help people with his religion of jesus have to say that people with their backs against the wall it is said that dr. martin luther king carried with him on a daily basis. talking about an introduction to jesus in the next chapters on fear and how pervasive it is and how devastating it is and how controls us in so many ways and how do you move beyond the fear. and then he says the character that is loved and puts love and a different perspective. the reason i'm saying the fear is so important in the book was great because there was a film

and interviewed people involved in the civil-rights movement and interviewed a woman that was 19 at the time in birmingham and of all the people they interviewed a thought she was so profound when asked for the mean of the move in the mean of dr. king she said he took the fear of an i remember how powerful fear can be in terms of current incarcerating us. what does the world need in krupp and living a life and come alive with the world needs people that, and the live and he's always mentioning that life is alive. life is alive and seeking to be filled and also talking about the necessity for us to find a greener on wed and to

follow the leg thick on shines on our path. and having the kind of courage and faith and trust and a life to follow that because life is speaking to you in terms of your own uniqueness. you're being called to be a special exposition of the word of god soon after fall of gotta's leaving you to see. and you have had some complications greta we haven't come in a october 21st this year its annual howard thurman every year we do this to try to help people to remember who we was and to understand his legacy but not to stay in the past but to also appreciate people who are caring for a a similar kind of legacy today. and this year honoring edwards

the founders of friends and negro spirituals people live kept the spiritual is educating people in terms of importance keeping them alive with monthly forums and meetings and they've done a tremendous job and punish people who've kept the legacy of the spirituals a laugh. greta this last one scholars from all over the country come it was very interesting after in november we hosted a black religious coercion, but the church but fell on hard darman's but they. and because of that the the place was packed and it was a remarkable experience. the churches never been a large membership is unique and what they do

and do very well as sometimes people come in for your where two years experience it and go back and do what they're called to do. other reasons for the beginning of the fellowship church had dual membership could be the membership of another church and fellowship miniature let people came to and when to leave their church for the didn't know of the church was cooing to continue and even were trying to reestablish that nationally to the applicant nationally have members of the fellowship church of living somewhere else. , segment to come back to please join us in a moment.

thanks for joining us. at last a vanilla segment to give us a quote of howard thurman. you asked earlier about some of his books and one of his books i also love is called the mood of christmas every year the church we have our christmas services geared around his book the mood of christmas with readings and a music based on the book. and this is a wonderful column that he wrote which at offered no sister bernie goldman who worked with thomas people and should send this out every with a christmas card called the work of christmas in the son of the angels the stilled, when the star and the sky is gone, and the kings and princes are home

alone the shepherds are back with the flock, the work of christmas begins. to find the lost, to heal the broken, to feed the hungry, to release the prisoner, to rebuild the nation's, and to bring peace among brothers to make music in the heart that's great that's the mood of christmas. and that's the work of christmas. and there's all kinds of readings that are just absolutely fabulous when my favorite quotes of howard thurman is put a saddle on your dream before you read them greta the other one is the one that often used as a benediction in the quietness of

this place, surrounded by the fall pervading presence of the whole the, my heart whispers. keep fresh performing the moments of my high resolve that in good times or in campus fall whether or fair when the foe was nameless or familiar i may not forget that to which my life is committed. keep fresh performing the moments of my high resolve. greta that's a good way to close thank you that was a wonderful career and thank you for sharing with us dr. howard thurman as the people will go up and read his books. even with the books and everything else needed to web

sites. if you join us in a row and lange and inspired and challenged by when the great religious thinkers of our time go out and lead howard thurman and up to your high resolve thanks for joining us.