good morning welcome to mosaic. we are visiting and revisiting science and religion topic with a friend of the on the september sunday robert russell the founding director if the center of theology in natural sciences 30 years ago you began to realize what you thought was a good idea and founded the center for study 30 years later it seems to be going right along. the center for theology and natural sciences 30 years

anniversary this year and in the beginning i was raised in the church in felt these two worlds were talking to to seminary inbound they want talking they're either and it became clear this was my calling so i became a professor of theology and sinus science end of began to have a worldwide impact to major grants. use it down 30 years ago when you get a bunch of i assume religious types around the table and some of them mark theologians and some of them are scientists and how does this begin? in an age when either science and religions her scenes in separate conflict what's the alternative the new way was this dialogue to mutual respect and there's value added each side the scientists can benefit

cause was the elegists the question was straight for help and a product in a world that's governed by nature and what is your man in the about and how to come here to evolution of what makes this unique in god's image and what is our role in the world in terms of the environment and how much are shipped by air inheritance genetically and the revolution and how much is left for human freedom and more responsibility and had been understand the future what is the purpose of this whole thing. with a great tradition of the resurrection of christ and had a real understand that in light of science a lot of challenging questions. so 30 years you've been at it and do you remember the very start of how the people began to talk with one another at that table it was awkward it was very

hard because you use the word cause and physics and theology but it means a different thing in fecit god caused this even to my life to me like a force of course not and physics to the forces so it's really a sort of a missed terms used the same mortar both sides and took a long time to build a vocabulary a common language talk about theology and science and bring them together and that was a struggle but once you get people of goodwill together and they will they begin to bear on this interdisciplinary questions a lot of exciting results of rise. even our were from carleton college is the genius the pioneer that began this whole field in the '50s and '60s and i had gone to him and worked with him and resent deigned to work and a chapel there and then used his work as a bridge because he was able to make those

connections and say here's what theological language means and no wider context using the philosophy and history and here's what connects to science to his work has always been a bridge building work for the center. now we have a chair named after him to thank him on his work but there are a number of others lots of great people and lots of events, princes and doctoral courses it takes a lot of work. the founding director of the center for theology in natural sciences in berkeley and good friend and a week when he comes back to talk more about science and religion and questions that may interest you.

of the great resources in

the san francisco bay area lots of places in the country people still think of religion and science has been knocking heads but not so by dr. paul russell leading in the discussions and interaction between science and religion and how they can be compatible and think other for 30 years with a celebration coming up this week. on the 14th of a book launch for my new book time and eternity. and for the 30 years to kickoff the year celebrations and some of their tenures summer theology and science journal signifying this metaphor of bridging the two worlds keeping them separate respecting their differences but finding commerce both ways. this is the web sites and

the celebration on this coming friday the 14th if you want to drop been 230 to 430 come on by we are an affiliate of the graduate theological union in accretive this gte because of its incredible intellectual spiritual environment. it's a bunch of seminaries put together a great resource. critic and programs in jewish studies and muslim steadies and buddhist studies conversations that are really huge. have you been able to involve and invite the muslims and buddhists and jewish community into this dialogue? absolutely and we will do more of it the role of science and dialogue become more and more per important and that some

exciting piece with all began quite a bit of it. if you get someone its jewish and some muslim and someone baluchistan someone protestant likely in this town together what's happening what is the state of that dialogue? greater to what extent are jewish christians and muslims concerned ricks said about the idea that the universe began 13.7 billion but years ago in a moment which cackle behind does it increase your wonder and author of the god who would make the universe out of nothing or is that just not really important to you? i think people differ on that but it's a great conversation that will believe in the same god but it's interesting to see the differences in them protestants

and roman catholic and jewish orthodox a liberal jewish perspective on questions like sciences there is set t = 0 beginning of time so what you think about that or is it the sheer existence of the universe the fact that there's anything and not nothing is that the basis for a profound spirituality or sense of mystery of nature of and it's finitude end needn't be and therefore there must be a source of it whose meaning is necessary and us with them always thought philosophically about god the caught as a necessary cause. i'm interested in to see on how buddhists would get involved in this i would think involved in the southern baptists and evangelical christians to be a great challenge. we're the dividing line is not so much the relations weather

not that you're fundamentalist within the religion or about science. it really is have you read the scripture. is the level if taken literally then you have problems but if you take it in its historical context the typical the vocal scotia around the text of the new concern with the original meeting was and that the genesis story is a rediscovery of faith after exiled so of course you could talk about universe and 67 days. s someone's watching what to get involved with these dialogues is to realize offenders to and which were saying that you collect your secret texts and you begin to read them in a different way into the king of genesis as compatible even theological description

the bible doesn't teach how the heavens go to to sue how to go to heaven. structure of the genesis account a structured by the cosmology of the days of creation by god's divine word that whole take the view out of the context and put it into the big bang and evolution and cities to the ways god creates cosmology points per could point to beginning of all things and therefore, that in the beginning crated heaven and earth. in retrieving and selling the faith that we've had for 3000 years that using contemporary culture to express that which is

always the call for questions. how long will begin to talk about how long we think of science and religion coming together and having dialogue that's fascinating. let's go back to your book for a moment to set it took a long time how does it take to red book critic that on was 12 years and i've had a day job time in eternity published by notre dame press what to say and to the introduction it's basically the question of what we have our own experience of time to remember the past and think about the future with regrets in hopes of the past and future and how does it relate to god's eternity is it a separate to maine this time is god timeless or not according

to many theologians i phone number them our experience of being a temporal memory of the past as our participation now on god to eternity are actually involved with god thinks to god's gift. it's time and eternity the future is and now the future is the future but forgot all moments are now forecast will be right back in a moment.

welcome back. pataki to the founding director of the center of theology and natural sciences basically trying to say and the world of all this bringing us into the science and religion are not and methodical and they sometimes run parallel and there's a lot of room to get involved in the dialogue with them each. and in my experience most recently in american southwest the evangelicals science doesn't have anything to say to religion and religion doesn't have anything in the sciences don't talk to presbyter include you

because that's it. it's parallel. again what is the dialogue and how to get people talking together all of that approach and will you hopeful about? and be given example of one of our programs we have a grant for the national institutes of health about the human genome project to look at the theological implications. it was the project is now over to map and sequence the human gene attempt to find cures for diseases that a gene based the 46,000 diseases that come out of your genes not out of bacteria so any case this project was to look at the theological implications of the project is a good example same assumptions that the questions on how to cancel some with the disease but when people say god created me

this is my body and yet my own cells and jeans are producing a disease that could kill me where is god and that this got love and work with me and threw those diseases? highlanders and intimacy of the divine in print to my life the divine caring for me. those of the theological questions that go beyond the ethical questions. and in the feedback to the scientists would be a use this model of the bridge with traffic going both ways between theology and science will be interesting questions that biologists and does it could ask if theology make sense about god being eternal and present to lessen the time being million pour into the divine life. in this book of mine time and eternity in this book i have suggestions for the kinds of

questions in physics research i could come out of the more complex to of time that there really is coming from the new creation into the world's now to the resurrection of christ the time is more complicated than simply day-by-day sequence and a lot of research in physics does suggest the time branches the process can go back in time this lots of interesting hints that there are things that would be of interest to the scientists from theological conversations if they want to. especially for scientists like myself that have a foot in both sides and that are thinking about these questions. cosmology is a big word to use to understand what's gone on in the universe from the christian standpoint all these ideas in this six and discoveries of time change our understanding of the nature of god greta they could change it

might enhance it all of our understanding is strong and human language experience all viable up for grabs in a certain sense a certain basic convictions aren't up for grabs the when we talk about them might be. what they mean to say is that there's a balance between what we think is central and how we explore the way we talk about it theologies the second order steady in church and pray. that's why we start by will be done in honor of the ases in heaven if you think that sent petraeus the world as a close causal order it's hard to see how god could act without breaking the order but god created us so why would god what to break it where is it if you think the nature is open that natural causes don't determine everything that happens in nature the way they are free agents and got back in that way

may act in some ways to the openness of nature without having to break the natural loss that's why, non interventionist divine act this is really new stuff that this dialogue and even one of the leaders in as you look at this center now a couple of more questions and excite you and excite the colleagues and people there are some very clever meets the road questions around stem cell addition surratt human nature been determined or the priest to put predisposed by genetics and how should you handle it should do all to the human gene cernan semis recognize lamentations on freedom and human experience that come because aurora and body. if you have the gene and you could look at it and know that it's predisposed to some

sort of disease so you're talking prior to discussion do you have ethically can you go win and change something the broader question i think it is how to science and for the ethical landscape and a theological landscape and direct. i can't think about human nature and human experience without bringing into the account the discoveries of the human genome project and all work being done in those biological fields but at the same time christians used their at the local and the logical systems and use those to determine what you can do and not to as a responsible person. it's simply trying to bring the conversation into the with the sciences and ways otherwise would have been done. i went to seminary 34 years ago it wasn't happening science was with the part of the picture you

cannot find science weather it's physics or evolution or evolution of biology and simply don't find it in an attitude. if you have doctoral students coming up and what are some of the passionate questions questions that bring out the passion for them and packed one very impassioned question is what does it mean to be created in the image of god because you first have to ask is that about some characteristics that we humans share or is it a divine gift. is it about our capacity for nationally in reason or morality in and the scene or is about our capacity for a condition of the future art and culture of the four or five species around, and a thousand years ago they'll

have not just us. and so why are we here? and why they hair-care you can debate exactly how long ago they were here and for what the impact was but when we say it, sapiens or an image got why weren't they are where they had been a very it's a very important question and a doctoral student his catholic and as a biology working the exact question the use the mirror image recognition to the test capacity for revelation if of a sense of self to be able to receive god's love and revelation and if that's the key capacity needed and if they

share that and dogs don't should we be radical incentive to something about something really special about the species and their relation to god and a lot to say that the profound ethical questions and how you treat them. the center fit it seems logical and natural sciences coming right back with been

talking as half an hour about human machines and the big bang and the image of god and creatures c t n s celebrating their 30th year in the bay area and dialogue in science and religion where did you corrupt russell a group of los angeles came to stanford went to seminary in that my wife charlotte and the studio with us she's a pastor first convert church in berkeley and a ph.d. in santa cruz and taught at carleton college in can accurate '81 and '82 and began teaching in that storm professor at the center. what do like to do not teaching reading or writing?

when this that i play the piano while of the p.m. greatcoat notre dame press new book time and eternity if you want to get in touch as anybody here have a journal this is a membership organization you could go on line to sign up as a member with members worldwide direct for regional both online and in print called theology and science have public forums during the fall and spring and anyone is welcome to come to that an annual fellowship, principal consultant for a we have a lot of stuff going especially this fall. a great resource for the bay area of things for you to be in the studio with us will be back next month for if he thinks

science and religion are and a chemical and not really true find a way to get involved we will see you again next month.