their heritage and legacy and carried it on. well known international before they were pope. but i don't think we're going to get a pope now. we have good cardinals but none of that kind of giant at thatture -- stature. that's when i went to meet pope benedict. >> so had you him as a mentor. you were across the table with him. you spoke with him personally on a regular basis. >> i did. and when he became archbishop

in 1977, his gospel students knew we wouldn't be able to see him often. but he said let's get together every year. so the school or student circle, we met with him on a weekend, in a monastery. we would have meals together, mass together, conversation. it was wonderful. >> okay. >> and then even more for me was back in 1989, four priests got together, myself, one from the u.s., one from belgium, austria. the dominkan priest was there. i was sitting with father of

the priests. and they are all seeking to try to lead the church. so because of that, i would meet every year for several days with the fathers. so i had the chance of spending a lot of time with them. >> there has been benefit to your knowing pope benedict xvi. outside of how you know him as teacher and scholar, what kind of man is he, as a regular guy. >> he was the big disciplinarian. we all knew that was false. so once he became pope, he was known to the world. so he is exactly like you see him and hear him right now as pope. he's wonderful. he's gracious. he's serene. he has a great sense of humor. it's kind of ironic sense of

humor. i'll tell you one story. they are involved in the translation work. so we thought we would be able to publish it when it came out because other nations like france and germany published. but the u.s. bishops decided they would publish it themselves. i told that to him and he said, yes, the american bishops are orthodox when it comes to money. right away, that little irony, you know. >> yeah. >> when you saw him when he was elected pope, he comes down on the balcony, i'm just a humble -- he is. that's true. but he knew that he was speaking to hundreds of millions of people. >> but -- so he is a real person. >> wonderfully gracious. >> well aware of his humanity and his gifts.

we're going to sneak away. when we come back, you talk about when he became pope. there's a wonderful interview on the website and in it you say that pope benedict didn't want to be pope. we're going to ask you that when we come back. stay with us. remember, front page here. the pope resignation. where else can you hear it?

>> we are very excited today to be able to talk about the resignation of pope benedict xvi and its many context. we are here today with the father who studied with the holy father when he was father ratzinger. he knows him well and we're talking about him today. we want to talk about the

interview that is on the website. you said that pope benedict didn't want to be pope. >> seriously, honestly didn't want to be. he really wanted to write, to speak, to give conferences. he's wonderful at that. he's a great teacher. and then he was made archbishop. he accepted that as a burden but he accepted scholarly work. he accepted that. he did not want it, but he accepted it. and he wanted to retire twice because he was over the age, you know. and pope benedict -- he said i want you here. then he figured i can go back and i can work on my theology and then he's elected pope. >> and that's amazing because he was -- he was -- he could be elected pope at any age, but he was boating age then.

he was part of that conclave. he came up a winner. >> he did. >> what is he showing by this resignation? it's a remarkable thing. you talkedabout it earlier too. in the press he was presented as stern and angry. but yet he was light. he was very appealing to all constituencies. the scholar, the everyday catholic, the man, the woman. >> i've never seen him angry. he speaks in a way that is easy to grasp for everybody. he used to say after he was elected pope, the crowds would come to st. peter's square to listen to pope benedict xvi. but benedict is much more accessible to normal people.

>> he writes so wonderfully. he is the definitive scholar. if you wanted to find out how to do it, you would watch him. >> absolutely. people ask what is his legacy. >> what is it. >> of course it's going to be all his writings. because they're still of great value. the two that stand out, the favorite is the spirit of the -- i think it's the best written in the whole history of the church. it's a big statement, but i believe it. it's phenomenal that a pope would center on the lives of christians. >> do you want to comment on what would have been going through his mind through all of that. >> a pope is priest, profit and king. how did he do?

as a priest, the literatures were beautiful, what he has written on music will be a legacy for the church. as a profit of course he's a great teacher. what he said about islam in 2006 i think will stand as an important statement. but as king, as an administrator, that's the legacy that people don't recognize. but it's very strong and especially on the west coast, tom. the most important thing that a pope can do in my opinion is appoint good bishops. because no pope can run the whole church. they run the seminaries that form the young priests. in the last eight years, we have extraordinary appointments. the west coast offense, i would say now we have a west coast offense. in the last few years, we have

the archbishop sample in portland, the bishop in santa rosa and the bishop in orange. these are incredibly good men. it's a renaissance that is just started. that's a legacy of benedict that will last for 20 or 30 more years. >> tell us -- i'm just thrilled to have you here and be able to talk about this. what made pope benedict? what makes him? he will continue to be appealing. what makes him appealing. what makes he able to go through all of those groups of people with different opinions and to be accepted ask to be cared about? >> well, it's a gift of god. we all have our gifts, tom. we are just on a lower level; right? >> yeah. >> he has this amazing human gift. because he is such a christian man, loves our lord, has given

his life to our lord, it shows his humanity. >> don't you think -- we have to take a break. but i really think it was generous of him to let us know him through his brother. those personal moments and all those kind of things. we have to sneak away. wonderful man, great priest and friend to the pope. we're coming back.

>> we're back on mosaic. and gratefully we have father joseph who studied under and continues to know pope benedict xvi always but especially now

because his final day will be soon and he will be going into retirement. he will still be alive. who is going to do his exit interview? every pope until now has had his face-to-face with the lord. >> he wasn't prepared for that. but it's interesting, there has been as you know resignations in the past but none for this reason. none for frailty and old age. i think it's an act of humility. he's a server to the church as well. he realizes that there are so many requirements that he can't serve the church appropriately in failing health. >> a precedent like this is remarkable. >> it is. >> it's a whole new era into place for the church.

>> it is. he loves his homeland. one of my titles, bishop of roam. i call him the universal bavarian. he's a bavarian for the whole world. how strange that a pope would no longer be a pope and wandering around. but he will in the vatican praying. i think it is likely whoever is appointed his successor is someone who is close to him and has been mentored by him. and it will be a wonderful relationship. just like his from pope john the 2nd. >> do you have any guesses about who it might be. >> i do. >> can you share it with us in. >> no. i'll give you a riddle. is it time for a noneuropean pope. >> reporter: which candidate is

not a european but he is a european and is not a south american but he is a south american? >> okay. >> that's the riddle. >> do you want me to answer? >> i do. >> okay. cardinal mark roulette is french canadian. he's in roam now on the congregation of bishops. he was 20 years in columbia running seminaries. so i'm not saying he will be elected, but among the many good candidates, he seems to me to have qualities which would make him very -- very attracted to the other cardinals. he's got that breath of language, the culture. he's not european, he's been in south america. but there's a lot of good candidates there. >> geographywise he would be a good choice because it would get him out of europe.

>> exactly. >> i'll put my money on him too. >> let's talk about light of the world. >> sure. >> the wonderful book that you have quoted from often. >> this is basically a long interview that he had. he was a fallen away catholic, atheist comanything communist and he wanted to do an interview ratzinger. he spent several days with him. the result of that is this beautiful book called salt of the earth and he came back to the church. and then he did another interview in 2002 called god and the world. and then the pope allowed him to interview him as pope back in 2010. >> okay. >> and so the beautiful thing

about this is pope benedict, father ratzinger, same person, open, transparent. >> very candid. >> you can ask him anything that you want. i remember in a meeting with the students after dinner sitting around with cardinal ratzinger and he was open to questions. so one young man says cardinal, tell us how you pray. what is he going to say? but he explains how he prays. he wasn't worried about holding back or something. it was just very simple and very direct. so this book is a pops to all of the questions that participate wanted to ask as pope. the one that i was interested in because of the resignation, he asked would you resign because of the abuse crisis? and he said you don't resign

when things get tough? and he said do you ever think of resigning? and he said yes. period. and he explains it. if i thought i no longer had the strength or force to fulfill the office, then i would resign. perhaps i would have to resign. so he told us in 2010. >> he is genuinely an anxiety- free individual. >> i wouldn't call itself confidence, i would call it confidence in the lord. he is so much united to our lord, he will do whatever he thinks is right. >> there will be a loss in confidence if we don't take a break. >> okay. >> more to come. stay with us.

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>> we're back on mosaic. and today we are delighted to be able to talk about the -- not because he is resigning, but because it's such a big

event, the resignation of pope benedict the 16. father joseph is with us. please tell ben draper that i said hi. >> did he punish you too? >> no. saint joe's wouldn't take me. the world must be calling you. you must be on all of the media. >> no. not too much. >> you are well known. >> when he was elected, i had my two weeks of fame. because i was the only american that was known to have had a knowledge of the pope, you know. so i was very famous then. >> and an inside one. i don't want to ask you too many private questions. but do you write to one another at all? >> no. he wrote me once a couple years ago. >> okay. >> it's interesting, he has a friend who he made a cardinal

and he has a book of lit ry. he writes me. we would like to -- would you permit this book to be permitted to be published in india? and i said yes, holy father. so he is asking me permission. pretty interesting. >> and so i want to ask you too. you published all -- how did that come about? is that coincidence or did knowing him give him a certain confidence. >> i never drank before i went to europe. i came back and i had my first american beer. if you call this beer what i had there had a different name. they asked me about theology. i said, look, if you call

people here theology i need a different name for them so we began to publish in english the writings of ratzinger and others much that's how we started. >> okay. and here you are today continuing in the great -- >> we are. >> and then -- >> okay. >> -- back in 1995, had a suspicion, i wrote him a letter, would you give us the rights to all of your works in english? and he said of course. >> will you continue to have a relationship with him in his retirement? >> i think he is going to be hard to get ahold of. >> the era of the resignation. >> we are lucky to have great leaders. they have set a legacy that the next pope will carry through. it will be a great time of

growth for the church. >> about pope benedict xvi, he's the pope, cardinal. what from him stays with you from your knowing him, from him teaching you? what is his gift to you. >> each person is unique. so his uniqueness stays. but his beautiful way of expressing faith, centered on christ, he was born on holy saturday just before easter sunday. he was baptized four hours later. it was at the heart of his life. i think he announced his resignation at the beginning of lent because he wants to see the next pope at easter. >> it's -- like i said, that anxiety free, those things that he's willing to do, he's willing to be human with us. and he doesn't kind of -- he

doesn't have that orderly thing. this is where we begin. >> he leads by example. >> yeah. so what do you look forward to? when do you look forward to see him again? >> i don't know i may go to the installation of the new pope. i may see him there. >> thanks for being with us. thanks for being here. okay. and this is mosaic.com. thank you so much for being with us. join us again.

>> hi, everyone. i'm frank. glad to have you with us on another edition of bay sunday. we have a great show for you. we have the path of happiness. we will check in on a nonprivilegity taking children and we will talk about the children's office at stanford. first the plugs. we would like to hear from you. send us an e-mail from our website. you can click on connect. and that will also link you up to our facebook and twitter pages so we can chat and get you or your idea on the show.

show time now. our first guest said she sat down to write a song one day and out popped a book. it's called the happiness handbook. it's a workbook on how to bring joy into your life and your partner too. >> glad to be here. >> are you happy? >> i'm happy. >> did the book help? >> the book actually helped. >> did it help to sit down? you said you were a musician. >> uh-huh. >> you were writing a song. you were in a tough spot in your life ten years ago. tell us how this all happened. >> ten years ago, i was 70 pounds heavier, chubby, about to get divorced amicably. my company was a dot-com company and the bust was in heavy swing. we turned it around. but i thought i was losing my company and i hadn't sung in ten years. >> and that's what you really love.