good morning. welcome to mosaic. we are part of a con that encourages us to live life to the fullest and pursue the pursuit of happiness. but we have people that are suffering and in fact take their own lives because they struggle with their lives themselves. this is eve meyer, the executive director of the san francisco's suicide protection to help us have a difficult discussion about suicide. why do people kill themselves? >> people that kill themselves are in pain. they are in intolerable pain of

one kind or another. and in the united states, we have the luxury that is primarily emotional pain. other countries it may be economic. it may be physical pain because of the health system has collapsed. it may have to do with shame. in the united states, we have those forms of pain. we have families that run out of money and call and said i'd rather be dead than homeless. and we have people that are in physical pain and decide to end their lives. and we have shame. we have children that are bullied and who die of shame. but primarily it's emotional pain and that's what we have to come to graple with. and we don't know much about emotional pain so we have trouble dealing with it.

>> when you say we have difficulty dealing with it, but at the same time, i think pretty much every suicide prevention organization at its core has a list of signs is that people need to pay attention to that might lead to suicide. so what are some of the indications that people out to pay attention to for themselves and also around the people they know? >> what people ought to pay attention to is that there are four kinds people that are suicidal. and the first kind of person said i'm thinking of killing myself. they come right out and say it and frequently people don't pay any attention to them and say, you would not do that or don't do that, let's go out and dismiss t and the second kind of person gets that suicide is a big decision. don't feel capable of making that decision and they they

have up to the universe. so they'll throw out a hint. no one will miss me if i'm dead. when i'm dead, give my animal as way. when i do this, i'm going to be gone soon. all sorts of hints that they may be dead soon. the third person gets it and they tell the universe they want to die but they don't say anything. they act it out. the third person may change how they dress or sleep, too much or too little or start giving away belongings and pets. the third person has something that they want to show. the fourth person takes risks. they know how they want to die

but they want the universe to tell them when. they haven protected sex. they get involved in pure violence. and their friends say they can see them spiraling down. there is a person who has hinted or otherwise indicated it without saying anything. as a culture, we're very, very schemish about asking a person if they're thinking of suicide. >> why do you that is. why are we to just come out and ask that question? >> i think it's because we have a myth if you ask the person if you the person if they're

suicidal you may put it into their head. and there are studies that say it's impossible to put that idea into somebody's head. the people that are in pain. are you feeling suicidal? for them, it will be a relief and a gift that you have recognized this shameful secret that they've had and that you're prepared to help them out and that you know what to do to them them out. >> we'll take a quick break and come back in a moment to continue this vital and important although difficult conversation about suicide. please join us back here on mosaic in one moment.

good morning. welcome back. this is a vital and important conversation about suicide with eve meyer who is the director of san francisco suicide prevention. we were talking before the break about the ways that people can talk with a loved one who they think may be complicating suicide and you say to them are you thinking of ending your on live or committing suicide? what do you say to people that will say, well, if somebody is really determined to end their own life, there really isn't anything that you can do to convince them otherwise? >> what you say to people is that almost everyone isa.m. i have is -- and lean less

even less than that so you go for the part of the person that thinks that there might be some positive reason to live. and that's the whole thing that the suicide prevention movement is about. some are deep down in almost everyone there's a reason to live. you just have to find it. and the way that you find it is curiously enough to ask the question how do you plan to kill yourself before you ask anything else. >> and why is that and important question to ask? >> because you want to make the person safe. you go into why you're killing yourself, they could die in front of you. the other reason is you want to make them safe is one of the

greatest danger factors is a person that has easy access to a way to kill themselves. so if you can make the person's environment safer, then you can make a part of them that wants to live, grow more easily. really part of whattening you're saying it's important to be curious and in that way, this some ways to be unafraid and take a leap of faith and engage that person and also in some ways see yourself as someone who can cultivate their sense of what it means to be alive and to enjoy life, if i can use that term in the midst of someone that is considering suicide. is that something that we need to pay attention to?

>> that is exactly what we need to pay attention to. inside of everyone there's a dream. if there's a dream, find the belief and find the one thing that makes them stronger than their own bodies. you can pull them through as long as you can make their surroundings safe. so the first thing that you do is to try to find a way to get their surroundings safe. and after that you look for the dream. you look for the diamond in the landfill, i call it. you try to find what it is that you can ignite that will help them get through just this period of time because people are suicidal in a very time implemented manner. >> and what are some of the services that san francisco's suicide prevention provides that helps to cultivates that

person and that part of the dream? >> san francisco suicide prevention has 100 volunteers that are community people and may have been through crisis themselves and they talk to people on the telephone that call in. i said the word talk. they are taught to listen and let you talk. and it is probably the most talking that you've been able to do. and the person that finds the diamond in the landfill is actually you. and we do this on computer and we do this by on line chat and we're about it start text. and we've noticed that people that are younger don't use

phones. we have translators in about 110 lanes. because we know what you -- languages. because we know when you get emotionally upset, the words how you feel are if your first language. >> of course. you mentioned that your volunteers are trained to listen. it seems to me as well that if somebody is considering suicide, that the isolation can be so deep that it's important to hear of the voice of somebody else. and it seems like the curiosity and engagement is also important for the other person on the end of the line. not just that they're being listened to but heard. and one of the things, is you have the engagement with the

person at the other end talking. >> yes, you have a person that is garaged and talking. but there are asking -- is engaged and talking. but they're also asking questions. up to now when the person said i'm in pain, are culturally programmed to back away from the pain. and this person comes forward and someone says describe to me. when did this happen? how does it feel? what makes it better? and by the end of the phone call or the text, you come up with a safety plan where you pick four things that you know as a person that is in pain might make you feel better. you write them down and you keep them with you at all time. and when the pain hits you again, you start them again.

get a cup of coffee, watch a certain television show, call a relative that you like. find an animal. i'm a strong believer in animals. sit and talk to the animals. if none of those work, you call the hotline again. somebody will be there. >> and we thank you so much. we're going to take a quick break and return in a moment on mosaic. [ female announcer ] with box tops for education and safeway's ten percent back to school program, now there are two ways to earn cash for your kid's school. from august 14 through september 10, look for products marked with the 10% apple tag. and earn even more by signing up for ebox tops at 2ways2earn.com. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one... ah, forgot jack's cereal! [ son ] what's for breakfast? um...

try the...number one. yeah, it's pretty good.

welcome back. i'm honored to be your host this morning in the mist of a

in the middle of an important conversation of suicide prevention. north california and many other urban areas are engaged in a vital conversation about choosing when one ends one's own life and typically that conversation is stimulated by terminal illnesses and the quality of life and the ability to choose when one's life end. this is spurred a lot of advocacy, education and assistance. i wonder what you think about that particular issue and where we are and what seems to be in a stimulation to develop different kind of vocabulary and concepts to understand choosing to end one's own life? and how one goes beyond doing

it, what do you think about that conversation? >> as a profession, if in our the allowed to talk about suicide when you're in physical pain or see a terminal illness about to end your life, then you are a second class person to the one that is in emotional pain. and you have the right to talk about your pain and the thoughts about your life. and in states where they have legalized terminal ill nice suicide, there have been been very few of those suicides. the freedom think about it has meant more than the actual death itself. >> interesting. >> >> way that knowing that you can do it, takes away your fear

of what will happen and it gives you control over your life. >> so does the sense of control create its own prevention? >> it appears to. it appears to. people that know that they can legally entheir lives if they're terminally ill, usually do not do it. >> okay. and this conversation really easily shoots around theology, faith, religion and suicide. can you talk a little bit about that history and that interaction? >> reporter: we've always had an interesting relationship with the faith community because at one point so many people were dying that the faith community in almost every form, jewish and christian declared is a sin and would not bury people with their families. they had shame for the family

and shame for the person. and then they developed a compromise about the 14th century that said, if you died under the influence of an irrelevant resist i believe force, could you be buried with your family. and what was the force? it was mental illness so mental illness and suicide became welded to one into the. and the mental illness, mental health system is forced to deal with people that are suicidal and though they may not be suicidal because they're mentally ill. it is a curious way that we say if you are suicidal, you muck mentally ill. that does not necessarily

follow because you could be in a crisis because of something that happened to you in your life. so we have worked out this kind of relationship but we have not worked out how we are going to comfort people, how we're going to comfort families and because we leave that shame there, people do not get to talk nearly as much as they need to other people. that's why if somebody goes through a crisis, it is extremely important. they will save another person. >> we'll take a quick break and return in a moment.

♪ [ female announcer ] wherever morning brings you, bring the energy you need. new nature valley soft-baked oatmeal squares. softly-baked, made with hearty oatmeal and a drizzle of cinnamon. they're nature valley's brand new take on a morning classic. because when you keep going, the morning can bring you to brand-new places. ♪ you can find them on sale now at your local safeway store.

in today's world. what are some of the demographic populations that we need to pay attention to when it comes to understanding suicide more deeply? >> a population that we're really worry bad is older men, particularly veterans and young men that are currently in the military. we're finding high suicide rates, higher than expected and having to direct programs towards them and the theory that is behind what the increased rate is that they

have access to i lethal weapon at all times. >> do most returning vets oraging vets actually still own firearms? is that what you're saying? or do they have access to them in some fashion? >> they on them because they took them with them after they've again in combat -- been in combat or they're been so comfortable with them, that they keep them around. the so the access to the means ever ending your life is something that is crucial. it's the difference between it happening and it not happening. and when someone has a gun around that is a dangerous situation. >> we live in a country that has a volunteer military. and for the most part, most of the population doesn't volunteer for the military but we know so many people that

went to the military and returned. you were saying how importanting it for someone to find the dream in that person for life. and i'm wondering, do you have some particular pointers for somebody that knows somebody who has been in the military and may not actually relate to that choice but cares for that person and nonetheless loves them and wants to necessity what they can do in that particular situation? is there a particular way to approach someone who is a veteran? >> i don't think you approach them differently than anybody else. but would you approach them and say, you're hurting, i okay i want to be with you and i want to make sure you're safe. if you have something around, i'll keep it for you till the crisis is over. >> in other words, you don't have to have been in the

military to talk to somebody is thinking suicide? >> no. pain is pain. each of us can try to save the person of another person. >> do you have any parting thoughts that you would like to let us know about to help us complete this conversation in this moment? >> my detarting thought is all -- departing thought is we can all care for each other much more than we have. and i'm seeing a wonderful time of people really opening themselves up to other people and wanting to save them and suck seeding. >> thank you very much. and thank you very much for joining us on mosaic. please pick up the phone and call san francisco suicide

prevention hotline or if you know somebody who is complicating suicide. please find the dream. have a wonderful day.

♪ [ male announcer ] wouldn't it be great if all devices had backup power? the chevrolet volt does. it's ingeniously designed to seamlessly switch from electricity to gas to extend your driving range. no wonder volt is america's best-selling plug-in. that's american ingenuity to find new roads. right now, get a 2013 chevrolet volt for around $269 per month.

welcome. we begin with your weekly pitch. if you got a show idea, we would love to hear from you. go to web and hopefully we can hook up. a show that has been around for 75 years, mentoring and teaching and giving kids a safe place to go. the boys and girls club and we're pleased to have the president in the house. you have been a part of this program for a long time? >> yes. i was able to pursue it as a profession. >> w