>> schieffer: today on "face the nation," 50 years after the march on washington, has martin luther king's dream come true? >> they marched on washington today. the one day while the congress, the country, and the world watched, they took over the nation's capital in the name of civil rights. what was its impact on the real washington-- that is, the washington that governs the united states of america? in the lead, martin luther king, the man hailed today above all the others. >> i still have a dream. it is a dream deeply rooted in the american dream. i have a dream. >> schieffer: today, we'll talk about king's dream and the state of race relations with some prominent american american leaders, including former secretary of state colin powell,

and legendary civil rights leader, georgia congressman, john lewis, who was with king that day. plus we'll hear general powell's advice to the president on the crisis in the middle east. >> in both egypt and syria, america has to take a much more-- much more clever role. >> schieffer: we'll also talk about the situation in syria with jack reed and michael mccaul. it's all ahead on "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: good morning, again. tens of thousands turned out in washington yesterday to mark the 50th anniversary of the march. we'll begin today with someone who was not in washington when dr. king spoke and didn't know about the speech for weeks. colin powell was an army officer in the jungles of vietnam, but

his wife and son were in birmingham. it was the summer bull conner had sicked police dogs on protesters there, so as powell fought the viet cong, his father was back in alabama guarding his family. >> my wife didn't tell me. she didn't want to bother me. mail took weeks to travel to vietnam in those days but i really got a sense of what happened when i got back from vietnam later that year, shortly after kennedy was killed. and i realized what was going on in the country. and as a soldier, i couldn't participate in this. i could just watch it. and as i watched it unfold, i said, you know, this is a time for america to live up to its creed, and this is the time for us to understand that segregation and jim crowe-ism, and awful laws are not just a burden for african americans.

they are a burden for all americans, americans carrying this awful weight on their shoulder which we at one time hoped would be relieved by the civil war. but the civil war didn't do it, not withstanding president lincoln's desires before he was assassinated when he talked about the rebirth of the nation, the nation of the people, for the people, by the people, but he meant all the people. but it didn't happen. and jim crowe and segregation came in. so we needed a new effort, a new civil war. and the leader of that war was martin luther king jr. >> schieffer: i was very interested to read in "time" nation their special issue devoted to this anniversary, you said the "i have a dream" speech held up a mirror for all americans to look deeply into the spirit and soul of our country. if that same mirror were held up today, what do you think it would show? >> i think it would show that enormous progress has been made. african americans and other minorities have moved to the top of every institution in american society, whether it's politics in the form of the president; or

in the military; or in finance; or in corporate america; in media america. so a lot has been accomplished, and we should be so proud of our accomplishiments. but at the same time, that mirror should show us that there are still problems in this country, that there is still racial bias that exists in certain parts of our country, that we cannot be happy until every youngster gets a quality education, regardless of where he lives or the color of his or her skin. we've got to be sure that we do everything we can to make equal opportunity in jobs and economics available to all americans. so i would say-- and if dr. king was here, i'm quite sure he would say-- congratulations on all the progress that has been made, but let's keep going. the dream is not fully achieved yet. >> schieffer: this year, the supreme court voided part of the voting rights act that came in 1965, the part that instructed, it said if the states had, had a history of segregation, it had to get the the approval of the

federal government before they could make changes in elective progress. the court told the congress to update that, but congress in the state of gridlock it is now, obviously, nothing is going to happen. what did you think of the supreme court's decision? >> i would have preferred that they did not reach such a conchoose, but they did. and i can see why they would reach such a conclusion. the concern i have now is that many states are putting in place procedures and new legislation that in some ways makes it a little bit harder to vote. you need photo i.d. you didn't need a photo i.d. for decades before. is it really necessary now? and they claim there is widespread abuse and voter fraud. but nothing documents, nothing substantiates that. so these kinds of procedures being put in place to slow the process down and make it likely that fewer hispanics and african americans might vote i think are going to backfire because these people are going to come out and do what they have to do in order to vote.

and i encourage that. >> schieffer: some republicans have been behind these efforts to tighten up voter i.d. laws and all that sort of thing. are they closed minded about-- about this? >> well, i don't know if i would characterize it that way. i think some of them honestly feel that it is appropriate to ask for more identification. but when they start to say let's restrict the number of voting hours or make it harder for student to vote, then i have to get a little bit suspicious of it. but here's the-- here's what i say to my republican friends-- the country is becoming more diverse. asian americans, hispanic americans, and african americans are going to constitute the majority of the population in another generation. you say you want to reach out. you say you want to have a new message. you say you want to see if you can bring some of these voters to the republican side. this is not the way to do it. the way to do it is to make it easier for them to vote and then

give them something to vote for that they can believe in. it's not enough to say we vato have a new message. we have to have a new substance to that new message. >> schieffer: what doun the implications and the fallout of the trayvon martin case will be? >> i think that it will be seen as a questionable judgment on the part of the judicial system down there. but i don't know if it will have staying power. these cases come along, and they blaze across the midnight sky, and then after a period of time, they're forgotten. >> schieffer: after the trayvon martin verdict came in, the president spoke very passionately about his own experiences as an african american. he talked about walking across the street and hearing people click locks, their car doors, things of that nature. how did you feel about that? were you glad to see him doll that? and would you like to see him be

more passionate about race questions? >> yeah, i'd like to see him be more passionate about race questions, and i think that was an accurate characterization of some of the things we are exposed to. in my lifetime, over a long career in public life, you know, i've been refused access to restaurants where i couldn't eat, even though i just came back from vietnam. "we can't give you a hamburger. come back some other time." and i did, right after the civil rights act of 1964. i went right back to that same place and got my hamburger, and they are more than happy to serve me now. it removed a cross from their back. but we're not there yet. we're not there yet. and so we've got to keep working on it. and for the president to speak out on it is appropriate. i think all leaders, black and white, should speak out on this issue. >> schieffer: should we do more? i mean, he is the first african american president. is there more to be-- >> he's the president of the united states. so he-- i always like-- i used to refer to myself the secretary

of state who happens to be black not the black secretary of state or the black chairman. and so he has a responsibility to the whole country, and i think he should speak out on these,not just because he's the first black president but because he is the president of the united states. and this is a problem that affects all of america, not just black americans. it is something that is still a residual effect of our history, the racism that existed by law, segregation, slavery, and i think we're slowly, surely moving away from this. and it's going to change-- it's going to require more change in the hearts and minds of people. but we're going to get there. i have no doubt about that. >> schieffer: more and more as we watch the situation in egypt unfold, it seems we have somehow less and less influence on events. what advice do you have for the president right now on what we should be doing, what can we do to influence events there? >> as i view the situation now,

the military leadership, general asisi and his colleagues have-- to use a poker term-- gone all in. i don't think anything we do right now is going to pull will suddenly sisi from that position. he feelses it his place now to bring order to the society. i think what we have to be ready to do is when things have quieted down, make sure the egyptians know-- not only the generals but the others know-- that america is ready, willing and able to help with you economic assistance, any assistance you need in putting in place institution, but with a requirement that you have to go from this military-controlled society to a society that is based on representational voting for all egyptians to decide what kind of a government they wish to be living under. some of the tools that we love to talk about here-- should we have economic aid or should we continue to provide military aid to egypt-- this is all sort of

trivial. he can do without it. and if we don't give it to him, it won't affect his actions right now. and if we give it to him, it probably won't change his behavior. and so i think that's sort of a side issue whether we provide aid or not aid. the fundamental issue is he is committed to bring what he considers stability to the country, put down the demonstrations. and we have to make sure that as he moves in this direction, we'll have to caution him about becoming too repressive and some of the violence that has been perpetrated against people who are just demonstrating. and so it is not a good situation, and i deplore, as everybody does, the number of lives that have been lost. hopefully, this will quiet down in the near future, so that we can get back to a sensible path to a democratic egypt. >> schieffer: and the situation in syria. >> the situation in syria, i consider it just about now a civil war. and who's-- who's going to prevail remains to be seen.

i have no affection for mr. assad. i've dealt with him. i know him. and he is a pathological liar, with respect to my interaction with him. but at the same time, i am less sure of the resistance. what do they represent? and is it becoming even more radicalized with more al qaeda coming? and what would it look like if they prevailed and assad went? i don't know. and so in both egypt and syria, america has to take a much more-- a much more clever role. we don't-- we didn't should around thinking that we can really make things happen. we can influence things and we can be ready to help people when problems have been resolved or one side has prevailed over the other. that's when i think we can play a role. but to think that we can change things immediately, just because we're america, that's not necessarily the case. these are internal struggles,

and the parties inside those countries are going to have to sort it out amongst themselves. >> schieffer: let me just ask you in closing, on this anniversary, what are your thoughts? >> my thought is that this country has come so far. i mean, it's easy to say, "well, we still have a lot of problems." and we do, we do, but we should not overlook how far we have come since 1963. i have seen things they couldn't have imagined. i have seen the president of the united states. i was able to achieve high positions in our government. increasingly, if you have education, if you have the background, if you have the right grooming in your family, and you apply yourself and you have ambition, you can can rise to any height you want to in this country. that is a remarkable improvement from 1963. and so i think we should be very

proud of what we've accomplished, but we should not say all done. it's all okay. because it isn't. and i think if dr. king was here he would be jabbing us-- education, housing, jocks, economic opportunity. that's what he would be walking about and talking about and marching about. >> schieffer: colin powell. we'll be back in a minute. right now, 7 years of music is being streamed. that's why hp built a new rs kind of server. one that's 80% smaller. uses 89% less energy. and costs 77% less. it's called hp moonshot. and it's giving the internet the room it needs to grow. this&is gonna be big. hp moonshot. it's time to build a better enterprise. together.

her busy saturday begins with back pain, when... hey pam, you should take advil. why? you can take four advil for all day relief. so i should give up my two aleve for more pills with advil? you're joking right? for my back pain, i want my aleve. >> schieffer: and that was a very young john lewis, 23 years old, as a matter of fact, up there on the podium with martin luther king jr. congressman lewis joins us now to talk about that day. you heard martin luther king on the radio. you had been inspired by him.

at college you organized sit-ins in nashville. you became a freedom rider. you risked your life on the southern bus stations by simply sitting in the seats that had been reserved if-- for whites. you had been beaten and arrested many times before you got to that day in august 1963. congressman, welcome to the broadcast. i want to start a little before that-- that day because you went with martin luther king jr. and a delegation in june of that year to tell president kennedy about the march on washington. and he was not happy about it. >> well, i remember that day very, very well, meeting with president kennedy. one of the leaders during that period spoke up and said, "mr. president, they're restless, and we're going to march on washington."

you could tell by the body language of the president, he sort of started moving and twisting. he said, "mr. randolph, if you bring all these people to washington won't there be violence and chaos and disorder and we'll never get a civil rights law through the congress." he said, "mr. president, this will be an orderly, peaceful, nonviolent protest." we spoke to members of the media and said we had a productive meeting with the profit united states, and we told him we were going to march on washington. >> schieffer: now, you were-- you were pretty much a firebrand in those days. i'm told you actually toned down the speech that you had planned to make. why is that? >> some people thought my speech was a little too strong. some said maybe a little too militant. i said in the beginning, in my prepared text, i thought that kennedy proposed legislation was too little and that it was too late. and then other part of the

speech, i said, "you tell us to wait. you tell us to be patient. we cannot wait. we cannot be patient. we want our freedom and we want it now." >> schieffer: did dr. king, did he weigh in on that? did he say, "john, maybe that's a little beyond where we should should." >> yes, dr. king said as he read the text, "john, that doesn't sound like you." i couldn't say no to martin luther king jr. he was my inspiration. he was my hero. >> schieffer: when you heard martin luther king speak, the whole part about "i have a dream" just-- just came out. that part wasn't written down. but as you heard it, what did you think of it. >> i still have a dream. it is a dream deeply rooted in the american dream." >> i knew he was not just speaking. he was preaching.

he transformed the marble steps of the lincoln memorial into a modern day pulpit. and he knew. he knew he was making contact. dr. king grew up in a church in atlanta, and when you start preaching his father would say to him from time to time, "make it plain, son. make it plain." so when he got to "i have a dream," he was making it plain. >> schieffer: it was after that, of course, in the same year, that president kennedy was assassinated, lyndon johnson became the president, and in 1965, you organized the march on selma, alabama, which also came to be a turning point in this movement. others, you and others were beaten. we all saw it on television. tell me about that day. >> well, on sunday, march 7, 1965, about 600 of us attempted to march from selma to montgomery, to dramatize to the state of alabama and to the nation that people wanted to

register to vote. all across the south, it was almost impossible for people to register to vote. simply because of the color of their skin. there was one county between selma and montgomery that was more than 80% african american. there was not a single registered voter in the county. so we had planned to walk all the way from selma to montgomery, and take our concern to governor wallace. on that day, i was wearing a backpack which became fashionable. i thought i was going to be arrested and go to jail. in the backpack i have two books, one apple, one orange, something to eat. toothpaste, toothbrush. i thought i was going to be in jail. i wanted to be able to brush my teeth. we get to the highest point on the bridge, down below we saw a sea of blue alabama state troopers and a man identified

himself and said, "i'm major john cloud of the alabama state troopers. this is an unlawfull march. you will not be allowed to continue. you must return to your homes or go back to your church." >> and you are ordered to disperce now and go back to your church. >> and jose williams, who was walking behind bs me from dr. king's organization said, "major, give us a moment to kneel and pray before we can pass the word back for people to kneel and pray." the major said, "troopers advance." we saw these guys putting on their gas masks. they came toward us, beating us with night sticks and tramping us with horses. i was hit in the head by a state trooper with a night stick. i had a concussion. i thought i saw death. i thought i was going to die. >> schieffer: i think anyone, including me, who saw those pictures, would never forget them. and it was eight days after that, that lyndon johnson introduced.

>> the night he gave that speech, it was the most meaningful speech any american president made in modern time and the whole question of vote rights and civil rights. when he concluded that speech, he said, "and we shall overcome." dr. king cried. i was sitting next to him. i cried. he introduced that deal. and the congress passed it. and 48 years later, the supreme court gutted,. put a dagger in the heart of the voting rights act of 1965. >> schieffer: you know, justice scalia said that provision amounted to a-- these are his two words-- "racial entitlement." >> i was shocked. i was shocked. i couldn't believe that a member of the united states supreme

court providing a way, making it possible for people to participate in a democratic process would be described as a racial entitlement. >> schieffer: final question, what do you think martin luther king would say today if he could look at america, see where it was, where we are have come? >> 50 years later, dr. king, if we could speak to us, would say we've made a lot of progress. you're in the process of laying down the burden of race. but we're not there yet. he'd be grateful to see an african american as president of the united states. it's almost unreal, unbelievable, dr. king, would say that 150 years since the emancipation proclamation, 50 years since i made the speech on the steps of the lincoln memorial, and look what you have done.

dr. king would say my dream is in the fro process of becoming o real. >> schieffer: john lewis. thank you. >> thank you very much, sir. >> schieffer: back in a moment with some personal thoughts. 20 years with the company. hip. it took a lot of work to get this far. so now i'm supposed to take a back seat when it comes to my investments? there's zero chance of that happening. avo: when you work with a schwab financial consultant, you'll get the guidance you need with the control you want. talk to us today. every day we're working to and to keep our commitments. and we've made a big commitment to america. bp supports nearly 250,000 jobs here. through all of our energy operations, we invest more in the u.s. than any other place in the world. in fact, we've invested over $55 billion here

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newspaper reporter in fort worth when martin luther king jr. spoke that day. i watched it all on television with wonder and relief-- wonder at the power of his words, relief that it had all gone so peacefully. by then, i considered myself an enlightened person on race, but i had grown up in jim crowe texas where whites and blacks lived in worlds separate in ways large and small. i never shook hands with a black person until i was in the air force-- not that i didn't want to. i just never had the occasion. they lived on one side of town. i lived on the other. schools were still mostly segregated, and the newspaper where i worked generally ignored news about black people. white people were not accustomed to seeing so many black people in one place as converged in washington that day. so is made them nervous. they worried it could turn into a race riot, a concern we later

learned-- and you heard john lewis say-- was shared by president kennedy. it did not turn into a race riot. instead, it was a turning point in american history, a day that changed america, not just for african americans, but for all of us. i know. i was there back in the olden days. some of our stations are leaving us now. for most of you, we'll be right back with more on dr. king's legacy with marian wright edelman, ben jealous of the n.a.a.c.p., and author taylor branch. and we'll have the latest on the situation in syria. ,,,,,,,,,,

the captioning on this program is provided as an independent service of caption max, which is solely responsible for the accurate and complete transcription of program content. cbs, its parent and affiliated companies, and their respective agents and divisions, are not responsible for the accuracy, or completeness of any transcription, or for any errors in transcription. closed captioning provided by cbs sports division

♪ >> the billy jean king national tennis center in flushing meadows, new york. it's arthur ash kids' day. smash hit single "moving on" recording artist fifth harmony ♪

♪ ♪ i will ever be that girl again ♪ i'll never be that girl again ♪ no, oh oh ♪ wearin' in this ♪ but my heart is growing strong ♪ so call me, call where they arem not sure that we do. what if fsyria then decides they'll just retaliate by lobbing a few artillery shells into israel? i mean, this could set off a conflagration that goes across all of the middle east. >> it could. and that's why this has to be an international operation. it can't be a unilateral american approach.

it has to have support internationally, not just politically but militarily. and we have to make it very clear what our objective is-- which is to say we will not tolerate the use of these weapons of mass destruction, not only by the syrians, but by anyone else. and i think if we do that, we have a possibility of avoiding more complicated consequences. but as you point out, this is a regional conflict. it transcends boundaries into lebanon with hezbollah. it has ramifications all through the region. this is a very difficult situation. and we have to be careful, but the first step is ensuring-- and that's why this inspection is helpful-- who did it? was it ordered by the highest levels of the syrian command? and if that's the case, we can put a line down and say we won't tolerate this. >> schieffer: is there any hope or any chance, do you think, senator, that we might get on the same page as the

russians and get them to join. if russia and the united states could get together together on this and somehow at least broker a cease-fire, that-- i think that's probably as good as we could do right now is just get them to stop fighting. >> i think you're absolutely right. i think what's happening in the country is a fragmentation, that there are areas being controlled by sunni rebel forces. there are areas controlled by the assad government. there are alite shia groups, kurdish areas. there is a fragmentation. the first step, i think, would be a cease-fire. if the russians change their course-- and they have been very unhelpful-- but if they change their course-- and they would only do that if they recognized their self-interest was at stake. and, frankly, if it looks like there's an escalation of chemical attacks within syria, that has to disturb the russians. i think secretary kerry and the president have to work for this conference in geneva, work at least for a cease-fire, and then from there begin hopefully to build and ultimately it will be

the choice of the syrian people, an arrangement where this-- the horrific slaughter that's going on stops. >> schieffer: all right, senator, we thank you so much for coming by this morning. >> thank you. >> schieffer: we're going to turn now to representative michael mccaul, the chairman of the house homeland security committee. he, of course, is a republican. he also serves on the house foreign affairs committee. he is joining us this morning from boston. congressman, what's your advice to the president right now? >> my advice would be to have a foreign policy as it relates to syria. i think-- you know, there's no good outcome here. we have a puppet of iran who has used chemical weapons. we have a rebel faction forces. they're being hijacked now by al qaeda. and i think the number one chief objective is-- not to even pick sides here but to pick the american side, and that is to do everything we can to secure and destroy these chemical weapons. my greatest fear as chairman of

the homeland security is these weapons ending up in the wrong hands, say some al qaeda jihadistes, who we know are there fighting in the rebel forces-- and that could be a direct threat north only to western interests in the middle east but also directly to the homeland security security of the united states. >> schieffer: so how do you go about doing that? we know the president, one of the options being considered is cruise missiles. would you go so far to say we ought to put american troops in there to find and secure destroy these weapons? >> i don't think the american people have an aptight for troops on grounds in syria. i do know the military is laying out options for the president. we do know there are four warships off the coast of syria. missiles are an option to try to take out these chemical stockpiles. and i think that's an option the president should be looking at. but again, my chief concern is-- excuse me-- is we have allowed this to fester.

we've had a wait-and-see policy and hoping for the best. and we had a time to support moderate forces in toppling the assad regime, and we failed to do that. and now we have no good outcome. and now we have a situation borough we-- every time i get briefed on this issue it gets worse because it's become a mecca for the jihadists. they are traveling from all over the world, al qaeda factiones, into syria to fight the assad regime. so i don't really see any good outcome here. again, the number one chief objective should be to secure and destroy these chemical weapons. if we have to do it militarily as a last resort, then so be it. i do not favor putting our men and women on the ground isn syria. >> schieffer: but you would support, if the president orders cruise missiles, an attack by cruise missiles, you would support that. what about, also, u.s. military planes in there. would you support that? >> well-- and there's no guarantee the cruise missiles will be able to take out all the

chemical weapons. there has been a lot of talk about a no-fly zone. that may have been helpful a year ago. a no-fly zone will only benefit the the rebel forces. again, who are the rebel forces? 50% of the rebel forces are al qaeda. and the jihadists. so i don't know which side to pick here. all i know, i want to pick the american side and protect them from any use of these chemical weapons against americans. >> schieffer: so i go back to the question i asked you, if he launches a cruise missile attack, you will support that? >> if the military advises the president that this could destroylet chemical weapon stockpiles, i would support that. >> schieffer: do you see-- i just asked senator reid-- do you see any hope that we could get the russians to join with us to try to broker some kind of a cease-fire? >> i think there was a great opportunity for-- you know, we need an international coalition to deal with this. the united states cannot do this alone. we had an opportunity with the russians to do that. but now the relationship between

the white house and the putin administration is so bad and lacks so much credibility that i think that's very difficult. we have a shared interest. i do believe that the russians do not want these chemical weapons used, as does the united states. we do have an opportunity here they hope the president will try to take advantage of. but one concern i have is this sort of-- you know, the reset button with putin will reset us back to the carter administration where they view us more of a weaker power, not negotiating out of strength but out of weakness. and i think that's a real problem here. >> schieffer: all right. there's a problem there. there's no question about that. thank you, congressman. and we'll be back in a minute.

the u.s. options in this syrian crisis, we want to talk to our state department correspondent margaret brennan and david road, a foreign affairs columnist for reuters. margaret, you have late news

from the state department, their reaction to syria saying it will allow the inspectors to come in there. >> well, the u.n. has confirmed its team will be on site for the fact-finding mission as soon as tomorrow. the white house, however, thinks that's not good enough. this is five days after the alleged attack. there's been significant artillery fire, significant shelling that has degraded what evidence exists on the the sites. so in the administration's view, this is not necessarily a question of whether or not a chemical weapons attack happened. they believe there was one. it's just building that chain of evidence, and that's what the u.s. intelligence community is looking at right now. >> schieffer: so do you think this is increasing the possibility that we will take some sort of military action here? >> the rhetoric certainly seems to be point next that direction. but what we do know is there are a hard diplomatic push under way. the u.s. ambassador to syria, robert ford, is in istanbul today. he is meeting with the president of the syrian opposition. what we know is the white

house-- they want to see an exit before they enter here. there's a lot of pressure on the syrian rebels to explain what happens in the next 12 hours. if we act, what are you actually going to do here? because their own admission, by many analysis, they're not ready to run the country. we're not looking at intervention that would necessarily take out the assad regime. we're looking at sort of an extraction here, something that would plug in, hopefully, into an existing infrastructure, maybe some kind of transitional government, and that's what people are talking about at this point. >> schieffer: david, realistically, what are our options here? >> i think you're going to see potentially a tomahawk missile strike, long-range air strikes that won't endanger american service men. i think chemical weapons are different. the u.s. will use those strikes to try to destroy the syrian air force, punish assad, send the message chemical weapons are unacceptable. we'll work with the f.s.a., i think we have to keep arming them and push with the russians but there has to be a response from the u.s. government. chemical weapons is different and it is, it is just getting

worse in syria. >> schieffer: do you see any possibility that we could somehow convince the russians rs that it's also in their interest to try to broker some sort of a cease-fire and take it from there? >> not until assad's calculus on the ground changes militarily. so if you eliminate his air force, which weakens him, and you have a serious effort to arm the syrian rebeles, there are syrian option members that hate the jihadis. they hate the almousse rafront, but we're not back them and we have to make a front here. no u.s. ground troops, no u.s. invasion. sort of what secretary powell said. you shape things. you try to put the moderate syrians in a position to play a major role. they fail, you step back, but you do try to do something. >> there is a debate in the administration about the moderate opposition. the state has really tried to build them up, but they don't have a lot of backup on that front. they haven't been able to deliver the weapons the white house has said they were going to give, the weapons being paid

for by the saudis are coming in through the north and south. but the help from the united states of america hasn't been clear, and it hasn't been loud. and there's the bet if you help them, they'll be our eyes. if you don't, we don't know. maybe those weapons will end up in the wrong hands. >> the saudis are giving weapons to the jihadis. the qataris are giving weapons to the jihadez. we tried to have our local allies deal with it. it hasn't worked. there has to be a bigger, new approach and the white house has to take risk. >> schieffer: we also have to be thinking about what is going to be the response from the syrians if we do this. because you've got all kinds of things. you've got iran over there saying don't do it. what if they decide-- i posed this question earlier-- drop a few artillery shells into tel aviv. >> that's the problem. assad could carry out another chemical attack. what do we do then? again, i just fall back on chemical weapons are different. this hasn't happened in 20 years. there has to be a price for gassing hundreds of civilians.

there has to be. >> schieffer: do you agree with david, that you don't see any possibilities we put u.s. troops in there, margaret? >> well, the administration has said boots on the grounds is is not an option. these strikes, these other options that general dempsey outlined in the all right made public including saying, "hey, we should back these moderate opposition fighters," are probably the most likely. interesting to see from the united nations jeff feltman, formerly of the state department, elect in tehran. he'll be talking about them back off, perhaps. >> that's the question-- do you allow iran into some kind of peace talks about syria? they are the key player, along with russia. the u.s. doesn't want to do that. we may have to do that if we want to eventually create a cease-fire. >> schieffer: thanks to both of you. for in on this, be sure to wash "cbs this morning" tomorrow and we'll be right back with more than on the legacy of dr. martin luther king jr. >> schieffer: and we're back

now to talk some more about dr. king's legacy and the 50th anniversary of the march. there that day, joining us now, marian wright edelman, the founder and president of the children's defense fund. she started her career as a lawyer for the n.a.a.c.p. in

mississippi. also here, taylor branch, the historian who has, of course, written four books on dr. king and the civil rights era. his later "the king years" recently out in paperback. and our friend, ben jealous, the professional of the n.a.a.c.p. i want to start with you, marian. when you were there, did you realize at the time the effect that dr. king's speech was going to have? >> yes. and i realized as one of my own-- the hundreds of thousands property we were a transforming element of nonviolent witness that was unprecedented in our history, as you indicated, people expecting violence. here you had a huge, multiracial, multifaith, multigenerational-- i was 24 at the time-- witness -- >> what did you feel like? were you excited? >> i was exhilarated. i felt empowered. i felt connected. it's always good to know that you're not alone and there are all these people coming out

saying, "we're committed to making america, america." it strengthened me as i was being trained to go down to mississippi and practice law. a great day. >> schieffer: taylor, you've written all these books about the civil rights? were you there that day? >> no i was at summer football camp in high school in south georgia, over 100 degrees. i wish i had been there. >> schieffer: when did you come to find out about it and know about it? were you interested in those kinds of things in that day? >> my whole formative years the civil rights movement was tenacious changing my life's interest. the bull connor demonstration when they put fire hoses on children, may 2, may 3, was an awakening experience for me as a white southern in segigate south. i was aware of it but not the march itself until later because i was at football camp. >> schieffer: i was so interested this morning to hear about colin powell talk about he was in vietnam when it happened, didn't know about it until a couple of weeks later, but after

the bull connor things happened, his father-in-law was there in birmingham, basically guarding his wife and child while he was away. i just thought the irony of that -- >> the march didn't come out of nowhere. it came out of those demonstration. that's what made it happen. that's what made president kennedy can introduce the civil rights act in june. it was part of a continuing recognition that this was not only the principal obstacle to freedom but it was also the gateway to freedom in race if we could deal with it. >> schieffer: so the obvious question to you, ben, what-- what now? as you look back on it, how far have we come? how far do we have to go? >> when i was a journalist in jackson, mississippi, in early 90s, my old publisher used to say, ," the only problem with the new south is it continues to occupy the same space and time as the old south." and the reality is there is too much about these times-- you ask draw too straightave parallel. we're fighting for voting rights now in a real urgent way that we haven't had to since then.

a lot of folks who came there yesterday were moved because of the senseless killing of a young black man-- in this case it was trayvon martin. back then it was medgar evers. i think the beauty of this moment is we have young people being baptizeed in the struggle focused on winning victories now. they are winning big wins-- whether it was last year, just five miles from here in maryland, where we saw the state abolish the death penalty. pass the dream act. pass marriage equality just in one year. or whether it's new york city where we just passed a real racial profiling ban with teeth. or if these young people who are demanding that the minimum wage be raised to $15, kids trying to survive on $7.25, just can't, who feel they have nothing left it lose. we very much now in a real movement moment. young people are there-- are at the forefront, often, and we're winning big wins. i think we can be hopeful.

>> schieffer: let me ask-- you were you going to say something, marian? go ahead. >> we've been celebrating dream, and we can celebrate the progress, but the agenda i think dr. king would be proposing's proposing would be clear-- of course he would be fighting voter oppression. of course he would be speak out of mass incarceration and stand your ground laws and we have to stand our ground against any more enactment of those laws so trayvon martins of our world can walk without being profiled. he would be calling for the obscene wealth and income gap in this country that left millions of our people out of the economy. he would be calling for a poor people's campaign as he was when he was killed in memphis. we have 46 million, rather than 35 million, poor american, and 16.2 poor children, rather than the 11 million when he died. he told bus the opportunity to use our wealth to close these gaps and to use our wealth to make sure everybody had their basic necessities. we still have not heard him. he would be talking about jobs, jobs, jobs.

decent wages. he would be talking about education. our schools are still too much segregated and still very much unequal, and 80% of our black kids cannot read at grade level. and he would be calling for prevention measures to make sure we have an early childhood system to get children ready for schools. this is a time to finish the bounced check that still has not reached-- the american promise has not reached the millions and billions of those left outside and we need to get this country to realize that it's greatest economic, military, and national security problem does not come from any enemy without. it comes from our failure to invest in our children, who are uneducated. and that's going to be our undoing. >> schieffer: taylor, let me ask you. this move to tighten voter registration and all of that that's going on, the supreme court throws out that part of the law that says states with a history of segregation no longer have to get approval of the federal government before they can change the voting process.

>> well, i-- i think that it shows that there's an awful lot of resistance to the whole notion that the dream is ahead of us in the united states. where i go, the biggest complaint i get is "why do you keep raising this racial stuff? we're over it." it seems to me the basis of america is to say that we should get over talking about race is like saying democracy should get over having elections. i mean, it's the basis of how we deal with one another and how we form a more perfect union. we advance when we-- when we do it in ways that-- i'm a white southerner. dr. king said dealing with race in 1963 would help the south. and manifestly, it did. it liberated the white south. you never heard of the sunbelt south when it was segregated. it was poor. it was terrorized. it was all invested in this things. blessings flow when we deal with race forthrightly. it is a very, very dangerous thing to try to avoid it.

to me, the central unaddressed question in america today is what degree partisan gridlock is driven by race. we don't talk about that. we all-- everybody says partisan gridlock is poisoning america, but nobody asks how much of it underneath is driven by race and racial resentment? in that sense we've gone backwards since 1963 because we're not recognizing how we got to all the bless that is people take for grant. >> dubois: ben, if you had one thing that you could say-- there are many things you'd like to see changed-- one thing you could see changed in the next year in this country, what would it be? >> we have to restore the voting rights act. the right to vote is the right upon which our ability to defend all of our other rights is leveraged, and the supreme court has did real sham in a shamefully activist way and we need congress to victim together as they have in the past and make sure we can protect the right to vote for all people in this country. >> schieffer: all right, well, you know, it's-- it's wonderful to hear all three of you this morning. and i thank you all for coming

on this very special day in this very special broadcast. we'll be back in a minute. >> schieffer: that is it for,,,,

us today. we will leave you today with the final thoughts of martin luther king jr. on that hot august day 1963. when we let it ring from every business, from every hamlet, from every state and every city,

we will be able to speed up that day when all of god's children-- black men and white men jews and gentiles, protestants and catholics-- will be able to join hands and sing in the words of the old negro spiritual, "free at last, free at last, thank god almighty, we are free at last." ( cheers and applause )

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