welcome to moe say quick. thank you for joining us this morning. we feature another great christian person from the bay area. that is dr. raymonde. miles. he is the professor emeritus and former dean of the cool of business. welcome. he's born in central texas. went through airforce, made his way to stanford and finally to cal burkely. we're going to find out -- hear from him. thank you for joining us. let's take you back. where were you born and what were you growing up like? >> i was born in north central texas in cleburne.

and named for civil war general who is never defeated. he was treated successfully before every battle. and i spent my early childhood there. and i was born in 32, so i was -- i was a depression child, and my father was one of the youngest of that was really freight for me. i was the child of a whole family. that was a delight. an absolute delight. i spent my early days in cleburne. my father being from texas was in oil and gas and used tires. he had a service station which he bought

just before i was born. that was saw to -- support for us during depression. and that was not a bad time at all. actually, i began my first church in that period. and that was the closest church to our area. it was the disciples of christ. i didn't know that until much later. i didn't know the formal name. it was the first christian church, and we belonged to that because it was populated by people like us, lower middle class, and the preachers were not bombastic and they didn't attempt to condemn you in say tan. so that was good. and perfect for a kid. >> growing up there, and you got out of high school, and then what happened. >> i spent my time there through high school and played sports and worked all the time as well because everyone

did in those days. when i got out of high school, i didn't have enough money to go to college, so i looked around for a job and several of my family worked at the railroad, and they wanted my cousins, an older cousin. they helped me get a job with the railroad as a clerk in gainsville which was # is hundred miles north. railroads were situated in those days in 100-mile segments because of that a steam engine time, and that was about the limit of steam engines run. so, at any rate, i started working midnight until 8:00, and what i realized was that i could go to college because there was a university of north texas 30- miles away in

denton and i worked from midnight until 8:00 and i could go to the school during the daytime, so that is what i did for several years. the first year i did all the dumb things. i took too many campus. i pledged fraternity and i dated all the girls on campus. >> shocking. >> that was too much, and so the next year, i went to the jr. college for one year. not only that, but i switched my hours from midnight until 8:00 to 4:00 to 12:00 which demolished my social life, but i came in sleeping so that was good. >> you're going to take us through being in the airforce and migrating to sanford. we're talking with dr. raymonde. miles, professor of emeritus, former dean. stay with us. we'll be right back.

>> i met my life who you joined for 60 years. and that is the most important thing that happened in that early period. we became engaged. she was finishing up at tcu at the time in fort worth which was a little ways away i was barely 20. people got married early in those days.

that was a great experience in every possible way and. and then switched over to business school because i had to finish up an extra year because i had gotten into rotc late. into airforce rotc. and i anticipated going in and training. fortunately for me if i had gotten in. athat's the only reason. they offered me an early out. well, they didn't demand that i

go on to training. i took the easiest job i could find. hi been in school and in pilot training. i was tired, so i took the easiest job i could find which was fly navigate erica debts around in southern texas. and that was an assignment for two years. >> and how did you get from there to stanford? >> well, i went back. north texas had offered me a teaching job when i got out of service and a lecture there for a couple of years at a management department. that was the front thing to do. and i had been aiming at journalists so suddenly i had this opportunity to become an academic so i had to find a way

to get to a doctoral school to get a phd if i were going to remain in academia. i won a fellowship, and i apply sanford was expanding a doctoral program. i don't think they would have maintained if i had not had the scholarship. north texas was not a big school at the time. >> i like the word. >> so at any rate we ended up in stanford. and we drove across country pulling a trailer with our belongings. two kids in the back, and that was quite an adventure. we stopped off at the grand canyon on our way. palo alto where i spent three fabulous years hiving in student housing, the cheap student housing, which was

about a quarter of a mile from campus or maybe a half mile. i had a bicycle, and i rode it across the railroad tracks, but that. fairly quickly, i discovered that i truly enjoyed not only learning, but beginning to teach, and they offered me an opportunity to teach a class there. i taught one in soon jose artesian jose state, and then when i finished in three years which i had to do because i had a wife and two kids, no one finishes now in three years. but i applied only to burkely. they had an opening, and my wife and professors pushed me in that direction, and my wife explained that she did not

want to go back to texas, so we're -- we came to burke lee. >> and rooted in the bay area. and you came over to burke lee in what year? >> 1963. >> 163. >> a long tile ago. >> raymond miles, the author of many papers, many consulting jobs with corporations. when we come back, we're going to learn a little bit about business organization and his perspectives. we'll be right back.

raymonde. miles, professor emeritus, former dean of the school of business. he's with us. you are growing up in central texas, and your marriage and working on the railroad and teaching at north texas state and coming through and going through the business school

at stanford, and then opportunity opened at the school of business fortunately because it was the only one you applied to. what was your field? what did you engage in? >> i had been doing research in the hottest topic of that time which was managers, leadership, attitudes. i had done that in what was then silicon valley and that was about five firms at that time. 1962 or so. and hewlett packard for example had two divisions in palo alto and they have now got 140 or something like that, so, it was another time. the -- but, companies were -- because it was another time, companies were incredibly cooperative. they were very eager to link with universities on the search, and they were excited about learning which

was partly the product of ever depression. partly the product of world war ii when leadership training had been so good that the managers who came back went through on the g.i. bill. they were flooding into firms and bringing with them values that are sadly not there today. but at any rate, what i learned -- >> management, leadership, and what was the third? >> bell, management and leadership, and that was team building. it was a big factor at that time. i discovered at burkely, three professors in the psych department, the organizational psychology department were doing similar research in europe. we mapped, and that was one reason i was so attracted to burke lee. and when i got here, i was able

to work with them and we did some interesting research beyond that. i continued back with a doctoral student and reexamined all the firm that we have looked at and silicon valley, particularly hewlett packard just to illustrate how cooperative firms were. we gave questionnaires toker manager at hewlett packard. # 8% participated. >> what are you asking them? >> well, we're asking them about their attitudes towards their sub ordinants. what they thought their sub ordinants were particularly strong in. what they thought they were strong in, and what they thought their bosses were strong in. now, not surprisingly, even in a good company like hewlett packard, they saw themselves further above their

subordinants than their bosses were above them. their bosses were very close to them, in fact, below them in certain respects because they didn't listen. and yet, if you tested their subordinants, they said the same thing about them. >> even a well-made company less so there than in a poor management . >> what qualities were valued highly? what are you looking for that says oh, yeah, that's good stuff. >> this was, at the time, a break-through in leadership research and we got articles published very easy about this because it was fun stuff. it was interesting. and it was a new arena for

research. >> somewhat self-perception of people, and then when we were talking on the phone yesterday, you said that you had been to a conference at the high school where people were somewhat younger than you are, but you're dealing with problems that you thought we had knocked off decades ago. >> well, the conference actually was a national conference and the academy of management which i had gone to in its earliest days in the 60s. now, it's huge. monstrously large. and what i discovered was that -- the topics were recycling, and the crucial issues of the '60s were reemerging. >> what are they? for those of us who don't know what the issues are. >> well, the issues are simply motivation and organizations. people have been turned off by

the typical behavior of most of the managers and firms. there are ideas all over the organization that are trying to get up, and in fact, they're not listened to, so that was part of the issue in the early 60s, but managers were far more receptive to the notion that they were mocking invasion. now, i don't think managers are aware of how much they are locking the flow upward. >> you have some hesitancy about the future. >> well, i think that the future is going to be driven by invasion. it's going to be driven by how fast we can take knowledge which is flowing

out of universityies and other places in huge waves, how fast we can take that into products and services that are going to benefit the world. and right now, the typical organization is a suppresser of this knowledge within a facilitateor. so, at least that's my judgment. and i'm not sure that most organizations agree. they think they're letting as much through as they can manage, and they probably are, but they should be able to manage a lot more. >> i assume that that goes over in anapest earn -- one's personal life too, that it's a cautionary tale for us to listen more and to integrate. >> i think so. you know, we certainly emphasize that in parody back in the '50s.

that was the whole theme, and we have throe children and seven grandchildren, and i think they have all been raised to express themselves freely and we have two academics in the group, and one whose wife is an academic, so we're -- i think the best thing that i ever did in terms of applying my knowledge for phd was with the kids. >> congratulations. we're talking with raymonde. miles. we'll be back for our concluding segment. well said, sir.

raymond miles just off camera. he was talking about his proudest achievements are taking his organization ideas and putting them into practice in his own family. you were talking about a baseball story where one of your children was really happy over something that happened on the diamond that you won think would be a celebrator time. >> well, this was the youngest time, and it was the best athlete and went on to college, playing baseball, and he remembered being the happiest when one of the least capable players on our 12-year-old team got a walk that drove in the winning run and the whole team raced out to embrace him. and i thought that was a great recollection. >> in your world view in perspective, why is that so important. why is that such an important part? >> well, i just thought it

illustrated again what we could do if we were capable of lifting out the knowledge and the capabilities of all of our members, of everyone in society. and everyone in the world for ma thatter -- for that matter. so that is what we have been writing about recently. more -- not just that baseball star, but about turning loose the capabilities and a global environment. turning loose the emergent countries. turning loose the flow of knowledge upward in organizations, and we think if we were able to do that, that the global economy would blossom, and we could all benefit from this. >> oh, optimism. i love that. now, you have also been

involved in religious communities in the congregations. what has been a benefit of that and why did you do it? >> well, i think -- i had never found any challenge between my religious beliefs which were focused on caring for people and valuing their capability. and their research that i have done through all the years. so, this seemed a natural extension. now, i mentioned to you one example of that right now. from the disciples through christ church, we gradual limy grated over to the unitarian church and discovered that we had been, unitarians all along but didn't know it. and one of the people there that i thought

was doing a fabulous job is a doctor in public health. he has a ph.d. in public health. he spent time in pakistan. well, many countries, but in pakistan. he created a program where villagers helped raise their own health beyond anyone's belief. he trained the indigenous resources to be capable of delivering their own care. well, this was sort of the same thing we had been preaching and preaching in organizations that if they would simply allow people -- let people do what

they were capable of doing, they would be amazed at how good they were p and so now he's doing this same thing. this is frederick shaw. dr. fed rick shaw. he's doing the same thing now in a program in india where he has trained young people to basic hi do what public health doctors do. >> i'm amazed. coming out of the depression. it must have been a pretty hard life there and going through the airforce. building a life here. your wife thought going back was not such a good idea but staying in the bay area was. it's certainly been a boom to us in the bay area. your enthusiasm and optimism comes through you. i hope that you hear that. a role model for us indeed. a great measure and honor to

have on dr. raymonde. miles, pastor, professor aher us the, the school of business former dean. ron will be back next month. thank you for being with us at mosaic.

. we're chitchatting here. welcome to "bay sunday." if you have a show idea, we'd love to hear from you. go kxix.com. we get you out of the gate with a little laughter, an oaklander who lives in fremont, double majored in cal in business and math sew could be a comedian. he's 27, taking the comedy circuit by storm, refreshingly intelligent. he is a cal guy. he is inspiring. he's great. he's a few days away from 1,000 consecutive days of comedy. let's chat with sammy. how are you? >> good. how