>> today on face the nation, a washington week that began with the a massive shooting. >> it's like they do this every six months. they do. i mean, i don't mind them disagreeing with me, you don't have to threaten to blow the whole thing up just because you don't get your away. >> 13 people lay dead in the navy yard as the world wondered about america's and russia's next move in syria. >> but washington has turned their attention to where it has been so many times before, an argument over shutting down the government. >> we will talk to three key players in the debate, west virginia democratic senator joe manchin, oklahoma republican senator tomko burn and arizona republican congressman matt salmon as world leaders convene for the annual united nations

meeting we will also hear from former secretary of state henry kissinger on syria, and america's place in the world. >> plus we will get analysis from the new managing editor of time, nancy gibbs. time international editor bobby born, sanger of "the new york times" and our own john dickerson, we are everywhere because this is face the nation. captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> and good morning, again, there is breaking news this morning, in nairobi kenya as more troops have been brought in as a hostage standoff continues with an islamic militant group in an upscale shopping mall, at last count 59 have been killed, 175 have been wounded, four of

the wound ready americans. these images were taken by new york new york times photographer tyler hicks. we will continue to monitor this situation and bring you more news on it as it happens. in washington, the attention is back where it has been before in recent years, another congressional shutdown of the government, three key players in the debate with us, we begin with west virginia democratic senator joe manchin and let me just start right here, senator manchin, the house passed this budget that funds the government for the rest of the year, but only if funds for obamacare are cut off. is there any way, shape or form, anyway that that would possibly pass the senate? >> no. and next of all, it should be an unacceptable option. there is no way we should be talking about shutting the government down, but i will say on the other hand, bob, raising the debt doesn't fix the debt, we are talking about our financial future and talking about getting our financial

house in order, we are all adults at the table working that out and every six months or so this seems to come before us and it end up being a political football. >> but why do you think this is has happened, the president said they are just messing with me, that was his direct quote. why do you think they have done this? >> i have been here for three years and nothing has really changed no. 1 has been serious about fixing it. the blame can be on everybody, democrats and republicans, we had the bowles-simpson template out there, the bipartisan had a huge buy in and it is a tough one but it need to be done, you need to take that whether it be spending and revenue and reforms that are reasonable and sit down and work this out. but when you start putting these nuances or wedges in, such as affordable healthcare act or obamacare, you know what? i didn't come here to vote no on everything. this could be the happy retirement home if you vote no all the time. let's fix it. let's repair it and since i have been here not one of my colleagues have come and said joe here is a better way to do

it and fix this part. let's repeal this and we will fix this part of it. nobody has done that. they just said okay, vote up or down. let's fix things. >> what would you think would be a way to kind of get this started again? >> on what? >> anything. >> oh. i understand your frustration. the bottom line is, you have to sit down and say what is our goal? >> our first is first of all, if your finances are not in order, whether privately in your own home or government you can't do anything. we are in a situation thousand we need to rebuild america. we are spending money around the world we can't afford, you know, the wars cost us 1.6 trillion we need to come back, we almost started another one, i am mad we averted that and hopefully that is going in the right direction, the bottom line is what is the most important thing you pick out your priorities based on your values, your children having a start in life, having an opportunity, educate ago work force, making sure you take care of those who sacrifice and give back and make sure you are strong enough to defend this country and help people who need

help around the world. >> do you think people really understand what it would mean to shut down the government? and even if we don't shut down the government, to continue with the sequestration in place where you are going to have to drastically cut back our national security apparatus? that in addition to putting these vital social programs at risk or ending them? >> well, i do think there are people who are here when it happened before the last time it happened, and they know how devastating that was. politically it was devastating also, and i don't think they are going to go down that road again but we really should get people together, the leadership should come together and start giving options that are viable options you know, from the budget standpoint, they say the republicans are saying that we don't have a revenue problem we have a spending problem, democrats are saying we don't have a spending problem we have a revenue. they are both right and wrong but we need a tax system that people believe in and if it spins off more cash can't we agree on how it should be spent, if 70-cents of every new dollars

went to debt reduction until the house is in order and the next goes to infrastructure, it is not democrat or republican, that is american. >> you know,, senator, after the newtown massacre you worked very hard to get a rewrite, tighten up the background checks on people before they bought weapons. you lost, it came to a vote and you lost by six votes. now we have had this awful thing at the washington navy yard. do you have any idea, do you plan to bring that back or is there going to be any movement to try to tighten up these background checks? >> well, first of all, my prayers and thoughts go out to these families, this is horrific, these crimes, these mass crimes like this is just horrific what it does to society but think what it does to those families so all of our hearts and prayers and thoughts go out to them. next of all, this is not background checks. i mean this is not gun control. myself and pat toomey put forward, strictly it is a common sense what we call gun sense background check. we want to know, do commercial

transaction, do you have a criminal record? have you been adjudicated from serious mental illness? are you a terrorist? we should know those things. >> well are you going to try to put new emphasis -- >> i am not going to go out there and just beat the drum for the sake of beating the drum, there have to be people willing to move off the position they have taken and i am still talking to everybody and i welcome everyone's input if they think we can make some adjustments and make them comfortable, but this is something that really law-abiding gun owners understand, bob, in west virginia, 75 percent of west virginians agreement background checks are common sense. >> i wish you the best of luck with that, thank you so much for being with us. >> thanks for having me bob, appreciate it. >> we turn now to oklahoma republican senator tom coburn, he is in musculo dwi this morning and senator before we get to this whole business about the threat to shut down the goj .. you are the ranking republican on the senate homeland security committee.

do you have any information for us on this awful thing that has unfolded this morning in nairobi? >> well, i don't have any specifics, bob, beyond what is in the press, other than this is another indication that soft targets is where al qaeda is going, and they are not on the decline, they are on the rise, as you can see from nairobi. >> senator, what is your message to house republicans this morning who passed this budget that we can't continue government operations and funding the rest of the government unless we defund obamacare? >> well, i think it is a great attempt to raise the issue of some of the weaknesses and the problems with obamacare, but it is not -- it is not a tactic that we can actually carry out and be successful, and i am sure that the senate is going to move that bill forward, you know, the

ironic thing, bob, is that the answer now in the senate, by those who propose the strategy, is to filibuster the very bill they said they wanted. and that is what is wrong with the tactic. we don't have the ability, both according to crs nor politically do we have the ability to put a total stop and defund obamacare. it would be nice if we did. i would be in the fight, so i think they are going to get a chance again this next week to vote again, and send us something different than that, because harry reid and the votes are in the senate that this is going to be changed and sent back to the house. >> so there is no way what you are saying this morning, there is no way that this could possibly pass in the senate and -- so why did they do this, do you think? >> well, there was a tremendous demand among special interests

to try to prevent this bill from totally being implemented, because of the dangers to our country, the ultimate costs. i agree with them that if we could do, this we should do it, but we can't, and the political reality -- you know, tactics and strategies ought to be based on what the real world is, and we do not have the political power to do this, and so we are not -- we are not about to shut the government down over the fact that we cannot only, only controlling one house of congress, tell the president that we are not going to fund any portion of this, because we can't do that. >> what do you think the fallout from this is going to be? some people are going so far assaying that republicans might lose control of the house next time, the reaction might be so severe, because there is no question, i think this time around, don't you agree that it will be republicans who will take the blame if by some chance the

house -- the government was shut down? i would like you do not believe that will happen, but i don't see any good coming out of this for republicans. >> well, i think the exercise is fine. i don't think we will shut down the government. right now, with our economy where it is, the lack of confidence in our country, we actually have a crisis of confidence in our country right now, both in congress and with the president. we have got trillions of dollars setting on the sideline that aren't being invested. we are not going to shut the government down. what -- it takes away from the real focus. the real focus is the 250 to 300 billion senate totally wasted every year by congress in the federal government, and what we ought to be is about that, and, you know, we have changed 14 times, we have made changes to obamacare, the affordable care act and we need to make more. i would love to stop it and send it in a direction where we still have the safety net and really have competitive pricing for healthcare and transparency but

we are not going to get a chance to do that. so the real issue is to not talk about something that republicans can win on, which is for the first time since the end of the korean war we will have actually decreased discretionary spending in this country two year years a row, which is a real achievement, and we haven't even touched the surface of the waste and fraud that is out there. >> there was a very serious incident as you well know at the washington navy yard last week, senator. what are we going to do about that? i mean, you know, i know this is a good argument about gun control and all of that, but it seems to me the argument should be about how do we keep weapons out of the hands of deranged people? and i don't see us making any progress on that. >> i agree, bob. you know, that was my greatest disappointment over the gun debate. we had a great, some great

amendments. there are things we can do. the first thing is when people are having auditory hallucinations and they are telling that to people in the va, and they are not doing something to actually interchange with that, it sounds to me like the history that a complete mental status as a physician, a complete mental status exam should have been carried out. we would have seen some of these problems. you know, we have to make it where the healthcare professionals in this country, when they see somebody that is having symptoms of psychosis or schizophrenia that they can act on that by notifying the do not cellist so that people can't buy a gun. he bought a gun in spite of the fact that at several interchanges people were aware of his psychosis. the other question is, is how did he walk into the navy yard with a shotgun?

>> all right. well, senator that is a question that nobody right now has been able to answer. thank you so much. >> you bet. thank you, bob. >> and we are here now with arizona congressman matt salmon one of the house republicans who voted in favor of eliminating funding for the president's healthcare program as a condition for keeping the government running. well, congressman, we just had a conservative democrat and a republican in the senate both say there is no way, no how that this is going to get done in the senate and, you know, other people all week have been comparing this to a kamikaze attack, a suicide mission. why did you do it. >> well, bob, let me throw out a couple of examples. three weeks ago i think everybody in this country thought it was a fate complete we were going to bomb syria but the voice of the american people was heard and we didn't bomb syria in fact the president is negotiating with vladimir putin

to ensure that we take care of that issue .. >> congressman, putin can't help us on this one. >> i find it ironic that the president would negotiate with vladimir putin but he won't negotiate with the republicans in the house of representatives, i think the american people might find that a tad ironic too. >> i will point outback in 1996, 1997 we sent welfare reform to president clinton, he vetoed it, nobody believed that welfare reform could ever take place, the third time we sent it to him, not only did he sign it but he also took credit for it. i think the voice of the american people is loudly being heard and they are saying that obama compare isn't going to work, they are afraid of it, they were promised they would be able to keep their healthcare, they are finding that is not true, they were promised that their insurance rates would go down, many of them are seeing them go up, in fact most are seeing them go up and i heard loudly and clear in the august recess that we want obamacare down. >> but i guess, congressman, the point that we just heard being made and it has been made all

week by a list of people as long as my arm. >> right. >> a lot of republicans, business leaders is, fight a fight where you have some chance of winning. you are just wasting everybody's time by going through one of these exercises again to shut down the government. and i don't -- i have seen no poll that thinks it is a good idea to shut down the government. >> we don't want to shut down the government. i want to make it clear we want to shut down obamacare. the american people have made their voices clear, most of the polls that i have seen over the last few weeks have said, clearly, there is a majority of americans that don't want obamacare, the president has postponed 41 out of 82 of the provisions of obamacare he has given exemptions to big business, he has given exemptions to congress, why doesn't he give these exemptions to hardworking american people? >> you can write the script now, they are going to strip out this thing to not fund obamacare out of this bill in the senate, they are going to wait until the very last minute and send it back

over to the house and then you are going to have to vote on whether we just shut down the government. >> well, i would hope that senate reid would fake the voice of the american people seriously and try to entertain -- >> if they can't come up with defunding of obamacare, then come up with another proposal, but have a straightup vote on the floor is all we are asking. this is what the american people, who have made their voice loud and clear and we are simply trying to enact the will of the people. >> be new is not the land of wishful thinking. this is the land of what is realn't and what is going to happen. and even if you pass this, the president woul would veto it and there are certainly not 67 votes in the senate to override the veto. it is law. >> i would hope the president would value keeping the president open over preover preserving what most americans are against. >> let me ask you about this shooting we had. we had gab dwi giffords shot, again by a deranged person with

a gun, .. i don't see much happening on that front. do you feel any responsibility to do anything about that. >> i think ultimately as senator coburn just said, there are mechanisms to ensure that people who have serious mental illnesses don't get guns. there are tons of laws on the book that address this fact as well. i think we have a crisis in america when it comes to dealing with serious mental illness and we should focus on that. >> all right. well, congressman, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> appreciate you coming by. >> thank you very much. >> back in a minute with former secretary of state henry kissinger. stay with us.

>> schieffer: woo the russians and the united states now working together on getting if rid of syria's chemical weapons and with iran's new leader headed to the u.n. with peace feelers, i thought it was time to check in with henry kissinger and as he has often done during

60 years on the world stage, the former secretary of state had some valuable insights. i found him less than enamored with the process that got the united states and russia to the same place on syria's weapons, but now that we are there, he hs optimistic the plan might actually work. >> there could be quite a good outcome, because if we get the chemical weapons, if in then becomes a basis for a transition in syria that leads to relative peace, then at the end of the day, however tortuously we arrived it is conclusion it would have served the interests of the world. >> schieffer: will syria really go along with this? >> based on inside knowledge my guess would be that they will comply with 90 percent of what they are supposed to do. and that they may hold back a little, but the risk of holding

anything back is very great. >> schieffer: can we trust the russians here? >> you can trust that they will pursue their own interests. >> schieffer: and kissinger believes putin has decided getting these weapons out of syria is in russia's interests. as for the visit of iran's president are a than any to the united nations next week he is not sure the time is right for a meeting between the president and the iranian leader just yet .. but he believes the iranians should be taken seriously and welcomes a strong diplomatic effort by the united states. part 2 of our broadcast this morning, we will have a lot more of the kissinger interview. on that and other topics, plus why he believes russian president putin decided to respond to work with the united states on the syrian problem. i will be back in a moment with some personal thoughts. stay with us.

>> schieffer: i can't remember how many times over the past year that i have said i have never seen anything like this, but if i watch congress turn away from so many things it should be doing and revert to yet another rerun of let's shut down the government, i find myself saying it again. i have never seen anything like this. there is a reason that last week seemed to make no sense. it made no sense.

the wall street journal told house republican firebrands not to do it, republican strategist karl rove told them not to do it, the business community said don't, senate republicans said don't but they did. my question, if they shut down the government, will congress shut down too? will it furlough itself and stop its own paychecks? they don't like obamacare. we get that. i have a lot of problems myself with the process of how it became law, but it is the law and republicans don't have the votes to kill it. so wouldn't it be wiser to fight that fight when you have a chance to win? there are just too many other vital issues to deal with. the one is going broke, not only by those social programs but our national defense must be drastically scaled back unless something is done soon. in the kabuki theatre that is washington, the republicans made their point but time is wasting. it is time now for all side to

get to work. back in a minute.

>> schieffer: conversations, summer is leaving us now but we will be right back from henry kissinger and our panel. stay with us. >> ,,,,,,,,,,

[the captioning on this program is provided as an independent service of t the captioning on this program is provided as an independent service of captionmax, which is solely responsible for the accurate and complete transcription of program content. cbs, its parent and affiliated companies, and their respective agents and divisions, are not responsible for the accuracy, or completeness of any transcription, or for any errors in transcription. closed captioning provided by cbs sports division >> bill: pressure is on norv