>> schieffer: today on face the nation two, major stories this weekend, congress takes us a step closer to shutting down the government. as the u.s. and iran take a step toward better relations. house republicans are taking it up a notch, keeping the government open now depends on postponing obamacare. >> it is no secret that the tea party republicans came here not as public servants but to destroy and designate our government. >> for heaven's sake have as much flexibility with the republicans as you do with the russianrussian and iranians that shouldn't be too much to ask. >> schieffer: the white house says don't blame us. >> we are not for negotiating with a people with a bomb strapped on their chest. >> schieffer: as the news got worse at the capital the president and the iranian president hooked up on a historic phone call about

solving their nuclear standoff. we will get analysis on that from former national security advisor bring cinosky but first we will getting the lathest on the capitol hill standoff from republican rand paul. >> richard durbin and two top house budget committee members, tennessee republican marsha blackburn and maryland democrat chris van hollen. plus analysis from an all-star panel. it is all ahead on face the nation. captioning sponsored by cbs from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: and good morning, again, well, congress was at work until early this morning, but instead of avert ago shutdown it will begin monday at midnight the house voted to postpone the implementation of obamacare for a year before they will agree to fund the government. that now goes back to the senate

for further action, but leaders say it is dead on arrival. nothing is likely to happen today, because congress has headed home for the weekend and won't be back in session until tomorrow. so we are going start this morning with kentucky republican and key tea party leader rand paul. he is in bowling green this morning. senator, thank you so much. let me just ask you flat out. are you willing to take the blame if the government shuts down? you know, i have said all along it is not a good idea to shut down government, i have been saying that for months but also think that it is not a good idea to give the president 100 percent of what he wants on obamacare without compromise. we have been offering him compromises, many on his side say there are problems, teamsters say there is a problem, warren buffett says there are problems and former president bill clinton says there are problems with obamacare, why won't the president negotiate and come to a compromise on trying to make obamacare less bad? >> schieffer: well, senator, i kind of take your point and i

think a lot of people agree there are things to be done about this law that could make it better, but how can you hold the entire federal government hostage just because you want to postpone his signature achievement? he is not going to do that. the senate is not going to do that. you know that and you know even if they did that the president would veto it, isn't this just an exercise to accomplish nothing? >> well, i guess, bob, what i don't know, he already by executive fiat has delayed the employer mandate, a key component of that we think that is going outside the constitution and the president is not allowed to write legislation, all we are asking is, if he think it is to messed up he will delay a big part of obamacare on his own, and it looks like maybe he is going to do some special favors for the unions, why don't we actually bring it to congress and try to figure out how to meet somewhere in the middle? but see he is saying 100 percent of obamacare

or the highway. the president is the one sayingly shut down government if you don't give me everything i want on obamacare. that to me is the president being intransigent and being unwilling compromise. >> schieffer: but the law has already been passed senator, let me just ask you this question. i am old enough to remember when barry goldwater ran for president in 1964, and he said i would rather be right than president. and you know, he got his wish. he lost in a landslide. aren't you and the other tea party leaders leading the republican party to the same fate? >> well, see, the thing is is once things are passed doesn't mean they are set in stone and no future congress will look at them. for example, when reagan came in, the rates had been 70 percent on the top bracket for 40 engineered but he didn't say that's the law so we can't readdress it, obamacare was passed, but the public has a great deal of misgivings, i have a lot of misgivings, i am worried there won't be many choices left, that you are going to destroy the individual

market. if i want to go out and buy a hide deductible plan, obamacare is making that illegal, so i think there is really a problem with limiting people's choices and we should continue to have this debate, but it is the president who is refusing to come to the negotiating table. we have been offering, we have now offered a new compromise, our new compromise is not getting rid of his signature achievement, but delaying it to make sure that it doesn't totally destroy the insurance market in our country. >> schieffer: is there -- let me just ask you this. is there a way out of this? democrats are not going to go along with postponing healthcare. you don't have the votes to override a veto. is there a third way, is there some way to prevent the government from having to shut down and putting 800,000 federal workers on furlough? these are people, many of whom work by the hour. they need the money. this is going to -- this is really going to hurt them s there a way to prevent that from happening? >> i think there is a way.

and i have been saying all along that we should negotiate. see, historically bob the way it worked is if the house is republican and passed something and the senate was democrat and passed something you had a conference committee, equal number of republicans and democrats and you hashed out your differences. why don't we have a conference committee on this? you could appoint one today and meet tomorrow and hash out the differences. that is the way it is supposed to work. republicans and democrats are supposed to find a middle ground but right now, it is the president saying my way or the highway, if i don't get everything i want, if i don't get obamacare with democrats passed without any republican support the democrats are saying they are willing to shut down the government. >> schieffer: but, you know, senator with all due respect it is a little more complicated than that, because you have got not just republicans versus democrats, you have got republicans versus republicans. you have got senate republicans versus house republicans. you have got republicans senator ted cruz who is advising house republicans to go against their

own leadership in the house, so it is going to take more than a conference committee. i mean you would have to set up 15 or 20 committees to try to resolve all of the controversies that are going on right now. >> schieffer: do you disagree with that? >> well, i didn't say it was going to be easy, but i would say that that is the way you are supposed to hash it out. the president shouldn't get -- i mean, 53 percent of the public voted for the president, 47 percent or so voted for romney. in the house the majority of the house members are elected by republicans. why would it not be that we defend what we support? the president defends what he supports and we have to find a compromise? the president is saying no compromise. i will not touch obamacare. but the interesting thing is, he has amended obamacare probably 15 times already, but he does it without any legislative approval which we think is unconstitutional, but it is also showing he is just going to fix the law on his own without any approval of congress. we think he should come to congress.

we should negotiate how to fix or make obamacare less bad. we are the party that is willing to compromise. they are the party that says, no way. we are not touching obamacare. >> schieffer: all right. well, senator, i am going to thank you for joining us this morning. i don't see you coming off your position right now, so let's go to a democrat in springfield, illinois, the number 2 democrat in the senate, richard durbin. senator, thank you so much for joining us too. well, you just heard senator paul. what is going to happen here? >> well, i am afraid, bob, we know what is going to happen. tomorrow the senate will come in session. the house position which is basically the same one they sent us the last time is going to be rejected again and we are going to face the prospect of the government shutting down come midnight monday night, tuesday morning. and that is sad as you mentioned 800,000 federal workers will be the victims of this republican shutdown strategy, but even more important, it hurts our economy. for goodness sakes we are just

starting to recover and create jobs and strengthen the economy and the leaders in business tell us don't do this. don't shut down the government, don't fail to pay the government's bills with the debt ceiling and that is exactly what the republicans are hell-bent on doing. >> schieffer: well, do you think the government is going to shut down? at this point, do you think that is really going to happen? >> i am afraid i do. i watched what happened last night, i do. i watched wha what happened last night in the house of representatives i was waiting for at least some republicans to step up and say this shutdown strategy is going to destroy our party and its image. look at this, bob, 75 percent of republicans across america reject this tea party strategy of shutting down the government, 75 percent of republicans. and if they do, imagine as you can guess what the larger population feels. this is a terrible destructive strategy, totally unnecessary. >> schieffer: well let me just ask you this. some of the things that we just heard senator paul say. he said the president by fiat

himself postponed part of this program, and, you know, there is a lot of concern out there that this program really isn't ready yet, that the penalties for employers, that still needs to be worked out. there is likely to be more problems within the system. what if you came up with a kind of compromise says okay we won't postpone it for a year but three months, six-month? does that have any appeal to you? >> bob, it does, and i will tell you, not to postpone it, don't get me wrong on that, i don't want to postpone it but to sit down and talk about the future of healthcare reform, obviously we should do this, but look what we have to work with on the other side, almost 45 times now the house republicans have voted to abolish obamacare, not to change it, not to come up with any specific change, the closest they have come is with this medical device tax but if there is going to be a construct if the conversation with the future of healthcare reform it is going forward. i fully support that but let's

sit down in a bipartisan and calm way, not with the prospect of shutting down the government or shutting down the economy. >> schieffer: what about his, senator paul's suggestion that you form a conference committee and sit down, would you go for that? to keep from cutting down the government? >> conference committees are the normal course of action. we have been trying for more than six month to get the senate republicans to agree to a conference committee on the budget. they refuse a conference committee. when it comes to our budget. when it comes to healthcare reform there should be an orderly process. we are going forward with healthcare reform. that is a good thing for america. so that many people currently without health insurance will have it for the first times time in their lives and the policies all of us the buy are going to be worth more, they won't reject kid for preexisting conditions for example, that sat good thing. >> schieffer: what about repealing this tax on healthcare devices? these -- what about that? >> this is an interesting -- >> schieffer: medical devices. >> the republicans, medical device this is is interesting,

the republicans which talk so much, who talk so much about deficit reduction have sent us over an amendment which adds $30 billion to the deficit and takes it right out of the healthcare reform act. that is the height of irresponsibility. we can even talk about the future of that tax, let's do it in a responsible way with replacement revenue. i predict that the senate is going to reject this house over picture that was sent to us last might. >> schieffer: well, i mean, but wouldn't that be kind of a popular thing to do away with a tax on wheelchairs and things like that? i mean, that seems to me that in the kind of environment we are in now that might be something you could get together with them on. >> well, i support taking a look at the medical device tax. keep in mind, though, we anticipate millions of more patients, using medical devices with some profit associated with it to the medical device companies. that is why the tax is there. but i am willing to look at that. but not with a fun to my head, not with a prospect of shutting down the government. that is what the president said,

that is what we have said. there should be a construct if the, positive bipartisan conversation. bob, after the junior senator from texas took the floor for 21 hours the other day, this last week, senator john mccain followed him for ten minutes and there was more wisdom and common sense and with john mccain said anything i heard in 21 hours. he said the president won the election. >> schieffer: what do you do next? let's just put all of the arguments, why it is a good thing or bad thing, put it all aside, what can be done at this point to not shut down the government? >> we have sent from the senate a clean cr, no strings attached, we didn't demand the immigration bill pass or anything like that. a clean cr to keep the government in business. and not hurt the economy. ultimately, that is what we should do. and i hope when it comes to the debt ceiling we will do the same thing, extend the debt ceiling without endangering the economy. then if the republicans want to sit down and go into serious good faith negotiations, over

any aspect of government, that is how it should take place. >> schieffer: all right. well, senator durbin i want to thank you for joining us this morning, and we will stay tuned. thank so much. we will be back in one minute with more on the budget impasse.

>> schieffer: we are back with two key members of the house budget committee, tennessee republican marsha blackburn and chris van hollen, i am not sure i need to ask either of you a question. we just heard the questions laid out from rand paul and dick durbin, so where do you go from here, congresswoman. >> well we are going to wait and see what the senate does with the proposal that we sent over. of course it was my one year delay of obamacare legislation that was the amendment that went on last night. we think that that is a reasonable request, the president has made 19, he and

his administration, 19 delays, there have been 1,20 1,200 waivs there are all of these problems, i have 311 employers who have already made changes to healthcare, to jobs. we need to -- we need to take a time-out. >> schieffer: let me ask you this. you heard us talking about this delay. what if there was a shorter delay? what if you didn't delay it for a year? what if the president said how about three months? >> wouldn't it be great if the president would come and negotiate with us? wouldn't it these are the type of things we have invited him to come and meet with us, and negotiate with us. we would love to have the president sit down and say, okay, there are some problems with obamacare, and we have continued to bring forward ideas for healthcare reform, but we have been met with this attitude of no negotiation, i don't want to sit down. i don't want to talk about this. it is my way or the highway, but

we continue to put ideas there, just hike last night. >> schieffer: all right. >> you know, you don't want to defund it let's go at delaying it. >> schieffer: senator -- i mean congressman. >> bob, marsha wrote in an op ed piece to her constituents the best way to defund obamacare was to delay it and she is right about that. this is a way to prevent millions of americans from signing up on october 1st to get more affordable care. what you are seeing play out here is the end of what senator richard burr, a republican in north carolina said was the dumbest idea he ever heard of which is this idea you are going to shut down the government if you can't prevent millions of americans from getting affordable care. senator mccain called it irrational, and yet what you see in the house is speaker boehner, who essentially handed the gavel over to senator cruz, it is like speaker cruz these days and you have the far right tea party wing of the caucus driving this government shutdown that, if they can't get their way. now we have tried to negotiate

on the budget for months and, as senator durbin said. i put forward a motion asking the speaker of the house to appoint budget negotiations, negotiators so we could work out all of these issues. what did the speaker do? he denied the appointment of negotiators. in the senate -- agreed to attach -- >> in the senate, in the senate, mike lee blocked the appointment of negotiators. this was a calculated strategy to drive the country to the cliff and then say, give us what we want, and the affordable care act or we will shut down the government or default on our debt. it is not the way to negotiate. >> let me point out also there is bipartisan opposition to obamacare, not bipartisan support. there is only partisan support. and you know -- >> congresswoman, that is not entirely true. polls don't suggest that. polls say that most people favor it. >> no. most people oppose what is happening with obamacare. i have looked at poll after poll

after poll. >> schieffer: do you agree with that congress person? the cbs poll -- >> last night on delay, we had some democrats vote for -- >> you had two democrats vote and two republicans voted the other way that is not bipartisan. >> yes, it is. >> look the cbs poll shows -- >> the democrats don't count, their opinions don't count. >> how about your two republicans? >> the democrats are absolutely united that we need to make sure that millions of americans get affordable care and millions of americans are already benefitting from that. >> access to affordable healthcare to all americans driving up the costs of health insurance. i have -- i have constituents in tennessee. i heard from a woman this week. her insurance cost is going up five times. a school teacher, her insurance costs for her and her family, 105 percent. >> schieffer: i don't see this -- let me just ask a question.

this is the government going to shut down? >> i hope not. the president is the one who is driving a government shutdown. he wants it, because he wants the checkbook. he wants control. and this is part of his strategy. >> schieffer: the that is going to reject this. i mean, even if they -- >> let's see what they do with it. let's see what they send back to us. we keep sending things over, see, we continue to work to send things over to say, here you go. here is another idea. here is another way to do this. we do not want to shut the government down. that has been the president's strategy. >> this is what they sent over 42 times. peel obamacare, never to replace it. we have always said we can make adjustments and make modifications but that is not what our colleagues want, they want to undermine the entire law and throw the baby out with the bath water. the crazy thing about this, bomb, morris is on the budget committee with me, the republican budget kept major parts of obamacare, in fact

their it would not budget without this and every penny of the revenues brought in by obamacare, including the amount of revenue brought by the medical device tax is what they have got in their budget, and their budget wouldn't balance without it, so it is a total hoax for them to say on the one hand let's get rid of obamacare when they keep major parts of obamacare in the budget, marsha. >marsha. >> schieffer: how do you explain this to me about senator cruz calling over there and telling republicans not to support speaker boehner? >> i am not aware that he called over there and told people not to support speaker boehner. what i will say is our, our leadership in the house has -- they have done a great job of listening to us. when we have said we don't want to do this, let's look at this. let's try a different way, listening to our constituents we are elected to represent millions of people across this country just like those on your side of the aisle do.

what we hear repeatedly from individuals, from employers is that this law is having devastating consequences, when you look at the jobs that are being lost, when you look at the hospitals that are laying off people, hospitals that are closing, cancer patients that cannot continue to get care, they are saying, you have got to do something about the intrusive nature of obamacare. look at the mess these exchanges are in. your online marketplace is not ready -- >> caused by obamacare. this is a campaign of distortion that has been going on for months. >> no, it is a campaign to protect the freedom of this nation. >> republicans said it was a government takeover of healthcare dada. >> schieffer:ed i will let you finish there in the hallway, okay? thank you both. we will be back in a moment with some personal thoughts about the future of congress. in a moment.

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>> schieffer: i had dream the other night. the ghost of congress future took me on a flying tour of capitol hill that i could nod believe what i saw down there. both houses of congress were filled with members. there were lively spirited informed debates going on. i am used to members speaking to an empty chamber. what is going on, i said. oh, the ghost said, the people threw out the whole bunch you knew after one of those shutdown government debacles and the people demanded new rules. we pay congress by the hour now, like most of the other government employees, and they don't get paid anymore unless they are legislating. but it is friday afternoon, i said. why aren't they back in their districts? because the people stopped paying their travel expenses, the ghost said. they get one round-trip bus ticket back to their districts a year. so most of them just stay here and work. they have actually gotten to know each other and it goes a

lot smoother now. well, you must pay them well, i said. >> actually, we cut their pay, the ghost said. the people decided a public office shouldn't be the most lucrative job someone ever had. we pay them about what school teachers and people at nonprofits make. it is amazing. we are getting a whole different class of candidate now. folks who do it for the same reason teachers teach. they want to help others. then i was awakened by a noise. some guy on tv was reciting talking points. in washington, the nightmares don't come when you are asleep, but more often when you are awake. back in a minute.

schieffer: well, some stations are leaving with you, but for some of you we will be back with a lot more face the nation when we talk about diplomacy between the united states and iran, so stay with us. states and iran, so stay with us. >> ,,,,,,,, ó

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