hello. i'm tom burke. this is mosaic. today we have a program that could put mosaic on the map. it is rare for a program like ours to have front-page news. and , edthe retirement resignation of pope benedict the 16th has been on the front page story. the lead story on the television and radio newscasts. and we have here, a priest who knows the pope. a jesuit. a wonderful man. founder and head of a church. >> there are a lot of people that know the pope. >> i guess. but he has a limited american experience. and here you are among us.

you know him. and he studied with him. >> from a long time ago. >> where do we begin? where is the best place to begin? >> it is up to you. you know him. how did you get to know him? you are now his friend, scholar and teacher. >> let me talk about the question of the next pope. that is the question on people's minds. my view is that we have had a generation of giants really in the 50s and 60s. we had theologians -- these are all huge and figures and theology. since then, we have not had figures like that. but we have had people who can take their heritage and their legacy and carry it on. likewise, in the papacy, we have had two giants. john paul and benedict the 16th. scholars and very charismatic in their own way.

well-known internationally before they were elected pope. but i don't think we are going to get a pope like that. we have many good cardinals. but none of that stature. i think -- when i asked a theologian were to do my doctorate studies, they said, to go and meet ratzinger. >> and he is now pope benedict. >> yes. >> so you had him as a mentor? >> yes. >> you spoke with him personally on a regular basis? >> i did. and when he became arch the ship in 1977, his many doctoral students were lamenting that we would not be able to see him often. but he said, let's get together every year.

every year, we have a student circle and we meet with him for a weekend in the monastery. we pick a topic. we have meals in mass together. and have conversation. it is wonderful. even more, in 1989, four priests got together, myself, a jesuit from belgium, a dominican from austria, and one from french canada. and we formed the house of formation. the dominican priest also. there were different countries. different religious orders. they are all seeking order in the church. because of that, i would meet

every year for several days with them. so i had the chance of spending a lot of time with them. >> there has been much benefit to you knowing pope benedict the 16th. outside of how you know him as teacher and scholar, what kind of a man is he? >> he was known as the big disciplinarian. we all know that is false. when he became pope, the real ratzinger was known to the world. he is exactly like you see him and hear him right now as pope. he is wonderful. he is gracious. he is serene. he listens well. he has a great sense of humor. it is kind of ironic -- his sense of humor. i will tell you one story. i was involved in the translation work of the

catechism. other nations, like france and germany, had catholic publishers to publish the catechism. but the u.s. bishops decided to do this themselves. i told that to ratzinger. he says, the american bishops are very orthodox when it comes to money. right away, he had that irony. even when you saw him when he was elected pope, he comes down to the balcony and says, i in just a humber -- humble laborer. he is humble. that is true. he knows he is speaking to hundreds of millions of people. strange for a laborer to speak to a group like that. >> so he is a real person? >> yes. >> wonderfully gracious. >> well aware of his humanity work when we come back, you talk about when he became pope. there is a wonderful interview.

and you say, that he did not want to become pope. we're going to talk about that. stay with us.

we're really excited to talk about the resignation of pope benedict the 16th. and the many contexts. we are here with a jesuit who studied with the holy father while he was cardinal joseph ratzinger. >> from way back. >> and he knows him well. we're talking about him today.

but we want to talk about that wonderful interview with mark rumble on the website at ignatius press. >> you said that pope benedict did not want to be pope. >> he honestly did not. >> what did you want to do? >> he really wanted to be a theologian, and to write and speak and give conference. he loves that. he is a great teacher. and he was made archbishop. he accepted that. he still kept up scholarly work. and then pope john paul ii called him to be head of the time variation of the document of faith. he accepted that too. he wanted to retire twice because he was over the age. and pope john paul ii want you here. and then he died, and he said, i can go back to work on theology. and then he was elected pope. >> it is amazing.

he could be elected pope at any age. but he was a winner. what was he showing by this resignation, do you think? it is a remarkable thing. you talked about it earlier too. and the press, he was often presented as stern and angry. and yet, he was liked. he was very appealing to all constituencies. the scholar, the everyday catholic. the woman, the man. >> i have never seen him get angry. he is always very calm and confident. he speaks very clearly. and in a way that is easy to grasp for almost everybody. he used to say, after he was elected pope, that people would come to st. peters square to see john paul two. they came to listen to pope

benedict the 16th. not to say john paul was not a good speaker. but benedict was more successful with people. and he writes so wonderfully. >> he is a definitive scholar. if you wanted to find out how to do it, you would watch him. >> absolutely. in fact, people ask about his legacy. >> of course, it is going to be all of his writings. they are still of great value. the two that stands out for me, is the spirit of liturgy. it is a masterpiece. i think the best book ever written on the mass, in the whole history of the church. it sounds like a big statement. but i believe it. and then his book on jesus of nazareth. it is pretty phenomenal. that the pope would focus and focus on what? very center of our lives as christians. >> do you want to comment on the eight years. and he must've had all of this going on in his mind through all of that. >> it is a lot to comment on.

it pope is priest, prophet and king. how did he do it? as they preach, -- as a priest, the books he has written, will be a legacy for the church. his profit is being a great teacher. and what he said about islam in 2006, will stand as an important statement. but asking, as an administrator, that is the legacy people do not recognize. but it is very strong. especially on the west coast. the most important thing a pope can do in my opinion is appointed good bishops. because no pope can run the whole church. and bishops not only are in charge of the diocese, but they formed the young priests. in the last eight years, we have had extraordinary appointments. for those on the west coast, who know what the west coast offense is with joe montana and walsh, i would say we have an

ecclesiastical west coast offense. in the last years, we have had the archbishop in seattle and others that are incredibly good men. and we will see a real renaissance. it is already beginning. and to me, that is a legacy of benedict which will last for 20 or 30 more years. >> tell us -- i am so thrilled to have you here and talk about this. what made pope benedict -- he will continue to be appealing -- what makes him appealing? what makes them able to go through all of those groups of people with different opinions and to be accepted and to be cared about? >> it is a gift of god. we all have our gifts, tom. you and i have a gift on a lower level, right? but he just has this amazing human gift. and because he is such a deeply

christian man, and loves our lord, and has given his life to our lord, it shows his humanity. >> don't you think -- we have to take a break, but i really think it was generous of him to let us know him through his brother. >> yes. wasn't that wonderful? >> those personal moments and all those things. we have to take a break. great priest and friend of the pope. we are coming back.

we're back on mosaic. here with a jesuit who studied under and continues to note pope benedict the 16th, who was in

the news always. but especially now because the very 28th will be the final day of his pontificate. he will be going into retirement. he will still be alive. who will do his exit interview? >> it is interesting. there have been, as you know, some resignations in the past. but none for this reason. none because of frailty and old age. first time it is happen. i think it is an act of humility. you can never cease being a father. the holy father. he is the server of the church as well. he realizes that the papacy has so many requirements. and he can't serve the church properly and adequately with failing health. he is not a robust%. he is always been healthy, but not strong. >> and presidents are so important. and a precedent like this, is

remarkable. it sets a whole new area into place for the church, do you think? >> it does. at first, i thought he would go back to bavaria. he lost his home land. his homeland. in fact, one of my titles -- bishop of rome, i call him the universal bavarian. >> yes. >> i thought it was strange -- if a pope would no longer be pope, and his be wandering around the countryside. but he will be in the heart of the church at the vatican. >> yes. >> i think it is very likely that whoever is appointed his successor will be someone that is close to him and has been mentored by him. i think it will be a wonderful relationship, just like his with john paul ii. i think the new pope will have a good relationship. >> do you have any guesses of who it might be? >> i do. >> can you share them with us? >> no. >> you are inside? >> i will give you a riddle.

people say it is time for a non-european pope. my riddle is this, which candidate is not european but he is european, and is not a south american but he is a south american? that is the riddle. >> do you want me to answer that for you? >> yes. >> cardinal mark -- is french-canadian but not european. he has spent a lot of time in rome. he is not south american that he was 20 years in columbia teaching at seminaries. i am not saying he will be elected. but among the many good candidates, he seems to meet you have qualities which would make him very attractive to the other cardinals. because he has that breath of language, breath of culture. he knows zero. he is not european. he has been to south america. >> geography wise, he would be

decent because he we get europe out of the mix. but he would not be american. >> exactly. >> i will put my money on him too. >> okay. >> let's talk about this wonderful book published and the one that you quoted from. >> this is basically a long interview with a fallen awake catholic, atheist, communists. he was editor of the spiegel. he wanted to do in her view with -- an interview with ratzinger. he spent several days with him. and a result of that was, this beautiful book called, salt of the earth. and he came back to the church. and then he did another interview in 2002 called, god and the world. and then he allowed an

interview as pope. so the beautiful thing about this, pope benedict, father ratzinger, very open. very transparent. >> everything is candid. i remember at a meeting with the students, after dinner, sitting around with father ratzinger, and he was open to questions. one young man says, tell us how you pray. i thought, what is he going to say? but he explained how he prays. he wasn't worried about holding back or something. just a very simple and direct. this book is a response to all the questions anybody wants to ask of this pope. the one i was interested in, because of this resignation, was he asked him, would you

reassign because of the abuse crisis? he said, you don't resign when things get tough. would you ever think of resigning? in this book, he says yes. then he explains it. if i thought that i no longer have the strength of the force to fulfill the office adequately, i would resign. perhaps i would have to resign. >> he is genuinely and anxiety free individual. >> i would not call it self-confidence. i would call it, confidence in the lord. he is so united to the lord. he would do anything that he thinks is right. >> we will need to take a break. >> we will be back. we will have more to come. stay with us.

please tell douglas draper i said hello. >> i will do that. >> saint joe's would not take me. the world must be calling you. you must be on the media? >> i have my two weeks of same -- same. i was the only american known to have a knowledge of the pope. >> and in inside one. i don't want to ask you too many private questions -- but to you right to one another at all? >> he wrote to me once a couple years ago. we had a friend that was made a cardinal in sri lanka.

pope benedict send me a letter and says, my father -- my friend would like to do this -- would you permit this book to be published in india? >> i said, yes, holy father. he is asking me permission. >> wow. >> i want to ask you also, how did this all come about? the publishing. was is a coincidence? >> i never drank before i went to europe. i have had wine in france and beer and bavaria. i came back and had my first american beer. i said, you call this the year? they asked me about theology. i said, look, if you call people here theologians, we need another name for those people. they are totally different.

so publishing the writings of ratzinger and all of these great theologians, that is how we started. >> and here you are today continuing in this. >> we are. and then back in 1995, i had a suspicion -- eye wrote a letter and said, can you give us the rights to all of your works in english in the future? >> and you continue to have a relationship with him? >> i think he is pretty hard to get to. >> to. >> we're running out of time. exhort us toward this new era of the church, the era of the resigned papacy. >> i think we should give thanks to god that we have had great men who have been chosen. and have been wonderful figures. and benedict and john paul two, have set a legacy, which the next pope will carry through. it will be a great time of growth for the church. >> about pope benedict the 16th, he is the pope, he is a cardinal, what from him, stays with you, from you knowing him?

from him teaching you. what is his gift? >> each person is unique. his beautiful way of expressing face, centered on christ. he was born on holy saturday, just before easter sunday. he was baptized four hours later at the easter sunday vigil mass. so the paschal mystery was at the heart of his life. i think he announced his resignation, because he wants to see the new pope a lusted before easter. the paschal mystery of his birth to the paschal mystery of his service of the church. >> like i said, that anxiety free units -- he is willing to be human with us. it is kind of like, here is a place where we can begin. >> leading by example. >> yes. what do you look forward to

seeing -- when will you see him again? >> i don't know. i may go to the installation of the new pope. maybe i will see him there. >> thank you for being with us. you are the head of ignatius press. a wonderful website. ignatius press.com. >> ignatius.com. >> okay. and this is mosaic.com. thank you for being with us. we hope you join us again.

hello everyone. welcome to bay sunday. i am your host, frank mallicoat. we begin with the weekly pitch. if you have a show idea, we would love to hear from you. go to kpix.com and click on the kpix5 logo. scroll down to bay sunday and hopefully we can hook up. the first guest has a deep love for music. especially when it comes to jazz. and deeply rooted american tradition. it began in the south years ago. and cherished by the world. the goal now is to keep it relevant to young people. the folks at oaktown jazz have made it their mission. a nonprofit, dedicated to kids, teaching them all things jazz. making sure the music plays on. joining us now,