good morning. welcome to mosaic. it is always a privilege to host mosaic on behalf of the producer and cohost. i am especially grateful to have as a guest this morning, the president of the graduate the logical union. it is great to have you, race -- as we were talking earlier, we know you have a lot of experience at having been president of the seminary. tell us about your background. >> i began my vocation as a parish minister. and then got involved in creating a homeless shelter. a large homeless shelter in the san fernando valley.

then i went to pacific school of religion which is a seminary. i was there 10 years. then became president of lancaster theological seminary in pennsylvania. and then was called back to pacific school of religion for three years as president. starting last summer, i became president of the graduate theological union. >> before we get into the gtu, your experience as a parish minister first. you are saying something about -- you did a great deal in housing for the homeless? >> in the san fernando valley, there were a group of about 35 churches and synagogues. and they became interested in the vulnerable population of single women with children who are homeless. so we ended up buying a motel and converting it to a shelter. from that, we went on to develop

and build a some additional shelters and also some low income housing or affordable housing. so that some people could find a trajectory toward independence, looking into this. >> a lot of funds were raised as a result? >> we had to raise about $1 million a year in the beginning. and of course, homelessness was in the public imagination. >> when was this? >> this was in the mid-80s. 1986. >> okay. and from there, how did you get into the seminary? >> i became interested in trying to go to a place where leaders where being trained. the next generation. and to see what i could do from my own experience in helping to develop a school that would mentor and educate and prepare leaders for the church and that is in the nonprofit sector. >> that is how it started? >> that is how it started. >> let's talk about gtu.

i had the privilege of going there in the 60s. one of the factors that jury me to it was gtu. >> it is 50 years old. it is the largest phd program in religious studies in north america. there are 300 students in the phd and ma programs. but the gtu is made up of nine seminaries and other affiliates. and so centers where there is the study of buddhism and islam. and the study of judaism. and now we are trying to build more of a true interreligious center with all of the great traditions of the world being represented. >> tell us, before we take a break, the other denominations represented. >> there are three roman catholic schools. and there are five protestant

schools. presbyterian, american baptist, united church of christ, lutheran. and then, starr king, which is a school that represents a multiple tradition. >> that is great. we will come back to that. it is such an exciting place. maybe a lot of people don't know about it. >> yes. it is a well kept secret. >> please join us as we talk about gtu.

welcome back to mosaic. we have been speaking to dr. reiss potterveld about graduate theological union. you heard some of it. tell us a little more about that. why more people don't know about this great place. >> it is well-known in the

theological world of course. part of the problem with the gtu is that it is not tied to any particular religious organization or denomination. we still don't have a natural bridge into the knowledge in the churches themselves. but an awful lot of the graduates have gone out to teach at colleges and universities. they serve in the nonprofit sector as leaders. they served in the churches. and so within the theological world, it is well-known. but if you stop somewhere on the street, even just down the street, they are likely not to know about it even though it has been here for 50 years. >> i went on the website and read some things about it. i think it said there are 1300 students in total. would that be accurate? >> there are about 1200 students today. those are of course -- some of them are in the seminaries are doing master of divinity or master of arts degrees. of the students at the gtu are

doing either the phd or the ma degree or the thd which is a doctor of theology. >> when i was in the seminary, they were trained to be pastors. is that still a major concern? >> yes. among the seminaries. probably 70 or 80% of the students are seeking ordination or some kind of certification for leadership in their own churches. the trend of though is that there are more people coming who are not necessarily coming from a denominational background. we call them, spiritual seekers were searchers. and the younger generation -- a lot of these people are interested in religion or their own spiritual journey, but are not necessarily interested in ordination or becoming, what we would call a priest or a pastor or leader. >> is this a new course of

christian spirituality? >> christian spirituality has always been one of the discipline areas of the gtu. and of course, important for seminaries. but today, there are more people coming again to have exposure to their own spiritual journey. and as we become more interreligious -- that is, the exposure tube buddhism, islam, hinduism and so forth, they all represent unique spiritual pathways or journeys too. and so people want to come to a school or a center where there are multiple exposures. and they can kind of taste -- if you will, from all of the wonderful traditions. >> it sounds very exciting. we were speaking earlier that the dalai lama was in town a month ago. he is an interesting fellow. i think someone asked him, how

do i get my children to do their homework? he said, i first have to have children and get married. then i could do that. he has a great sense of humor. what was your impression? i understand you are there. >> he is very humble and approach year -- and approachable. even though he is the leader of this vast movement. and known throughout the whole world and audiences like the president, he is very approachable. he was talking about the role of compassion. particularly, compassion in business. so there were leaders from the silicon valley. there were leaders from universities and centers. and he really made the case that -- it has to start within each person. but that there are ways that leaders can encourage compassion within their organization. i think he had a profound impact on the people that he addressed. >> in the buddhist center -- at the gtu, would there be a

connection there? there are so many forms of buddhism. >> yes. a form of buddhism like in japan. and this center became an affiliate of gtu in 1985. and so they have a rather robust program where students come each year and study meditation and the spiritual masters. and some of them prepare for buddhist chaplaincy. >> your tenure will be how long? >> i was invited to serve for two years. i am 71. i am edging up on retirement age. i am very committed to strengthening that gtu and its member schools. and so i will do what i can in this two year period, to both add to the circle of religions represented, and also to try to

do some serious fundraising, because we all know that we have to have those resources to carry out our aspirations and dreams. >> i was on the board of trustees when you came to be interim president of the psr. what is your assessment of the seminaries now? >> seminaries -- for one thing, they are all undercapitalized. we have never built up. any dominance really large enough to sustain them. and there has been nation king enrollment. fewer people are going into ministry or want to. we have not felt that shortfall or downturn in the gtu yet. but it affects the seminaries because they are dependent on the tuition that comes from those students. many of those students are carrying a lot of dead. and when they go into ministry, they don't really have a high-paying job to pay that off. it all conspires to put pressure

on the system. >> and so fundraising -- when you were here two or three years ago, you might have mentioned that there is about 250 seminaries in the country. >> yes. >> and about 60 present struggle? >> yes. we call many of them, freestanding. the ones that are affiliated with a college or university, they will be stronger. and the ones that are freestanding or independent have to either get their money from gifts or an endowment or from tuition. we don't have football teams to help us raise money. and so we're very much dependent on the generosity of individuals who think this is important. >> we are going to come back to that in the next segment. we're going to talk more about how we can get support for the seminaries. and what seminaries can do in order to be connected with the community and the churches.

so thanks for being with us. >> thank you. >> continue to be with us as we look at seminary education, which is so vital to the ministry. join us.

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welcome back to mosaic. to be president of any school, or university, high school, college whatever, especially a seminary, is quite a challenge. it takes commitment and passion. it takes intensity. and so doctor, why have you been involved for so many years in seminary? >> i did grow up in the church. that has always been woven in and part of my life. what i find at the graduate of theological union, is that we

are more and more, a global society. if you are a minister or a professor or serving a nonprofit, they are going to have exposure of people from all different religions. and of course, religion also spawns conflict. we are all aware of that across the world. and so did read you a theological union is a center where all religions can come together, where students and leaders and people from the community can engage not only in dialogue and mutual study, but in common projects together. and this is a unique place. i don't know of another one like it. where there are not only scholarships, but people are interested in the practice of religion. and the openness to all of the traditions that are found throughout our world.

and so we want to take that to the next step and say, once we have people assembled and all the religions are represented, are there some projects? maybe something on the environment or on social justice, that can -- that we can work on together. and develop resources that will be available to churches, synagogues, religious centers, as a resource. we're putting more things online. and using the electronic education and resources to reach more people. so that we can talk about having an impact that is more wide or deeper than just the bay area. >> i think that i read about people who are passionate about their faith but also hour clinical thinkers -- but also our clinical thinkers.

also, the churches are shrinking. i have read recently that the program which is normally three years might have to be reduced. what do you think about that? for about two years to accommodate churches? or maybe even pastors having to do other work. >> yes. the trend in the mainline partisan denominations is in several directions. more and more people who are going to be serving as ministers on a part-time basis, are having to supplement income. but also, students over the past decade or so are coming out of the seminary with more and more and mounting debt. and so one of the solutions is to maybe shrink the education down to two years rather than three. that is one conversation. law schools are talking about that as well.

and so if you talk to people, as i have in the last 40 years, and they say, i wish they would have been in school for five years and came out knowing more. but the reality is that we need to compact education. and to prepare people as quickly as possible. and to know that they are going to have to continue to learn from continuing education programs or things available online, throughout their career. you're not done after three years. because the world is complex and you need to keep creating and honing your skills. >> what can churches do to help? >> the mainline churches of course have been shrinking. and losing momentum to some extent for the last four decades. and so seminaries -- while they are very grateful for the support they get from churches, it is really not sufficient. with -- they have had to go to individuals in those churches

to raise additional financial resources. >> over the years, i have been on the board of ministry. it is amazing that some churches still believe there is not an educational process. in other words, that you are called by god and you start preaching. so trying to convey to people that it is an educational process and it takes years sometimes to be ordained and be able to give that quality of work. do you see that as maybe some of the challenges still? >> yes. and there have been religious traditions in the united states that put more emphasis upon the spiritual presence in individual, whether they were called from childhood on. and so, many of those denominations would move someone into the role of pastor without going through extensive education. that is still a part of the american landscape. but what is happening now is

that some of the denominations have been -- have begun to develop leadership programs towards ordination outside of the seminaries. and so this is usually a shorter track or trajectory, to ordination. it may not involve very much seminary education. and of course, it is less expensive and more efficient in that way. and so that is cannibalizing the seminary programs because people say -- do i want to take on $60,000 in debt? or do i want to go through some summer programs and be prepared to serve? >> we hope the spirit is there whatever route they take. we have one more segment. and we will talk a little bit about your journey again. like, your wife and your kid and your personal journey to --

too. >> okay. >> please join us in the last segment with dr. reiss potterveld.

you know we have been speaking about the graduate theological union, gtu, with the president, reiss potterveld. where is it located? it is at berkeley. but how do i have access if i want to be a student? >> one thing i should say is

that it runs an enormous number of public programs. so if you go to the website, gtu.edu, you will find a list of lectures, forms. there are literally hundreds available throughout the year. >> i see where dr. cornell west is coming. >> we're very excited about that. >> that is exciting. and so it is helpful to look at the website. and look at ways in which i can be a part of those lectures or even become a student there. >> yes. there are summer school programs where people come and take courses. and these courses are geared toward the general public. each of the centers, the islamic center for instant and the jewish center, do programs

together. if you're interested in how those religions interface and helpful ways, there are lectures on evenings and weekends. you need no other social life. just come to gtu. >> that is good to know that. >> i mentioned in the last segment about your spouse and your children. people like to know what people do. and who they are. so tell us a little bit about your personal background. >> my spouse, cara, is a sign language interpreter for the deaf. and she specializes in interpreting legal situation. there is a textbook on legal interpreting. she goes all over the country training interpreters. >> and she is not at one location? >> she is primarily working here. because of her expertise, she gets invitations to go elsewhere. she is a sculptor too. and has done a series of bronze

sculptures over the years. >> that is fascinating. how many children do you have? >> we have four sons and seven grandchildren. >> any interested in ministry? >> no. they are in all of their professions or capitalists. >> [ laughter ] so they will not be enrolling in gtu? >> no. one is a chef and one is a lawyer and one runs a men's clothing store here in san francisco called wingtip. one is an audio -- in auto engineer. >> fascinating. tell me more. is there anything else we should highlight about graduate theological union? about gtu? >> keep your eyes on the fact that we are trying to attract right now, hindu groups. they are not currently represented at the gtu. we need their presence. we are trying to convince them to establish centers right here. and that will make all of our

lives more robust, in terms of having access to all of those great traditions. >> that sounds exciting. any ways in which you are trying to do that? is there a possibility yet? >> yes. we are in deep conversations with one hindu group. and they could possibly start off in courses as early as next year, in january of 2015. >> that would be great. i might enroll again. >> sounds good. >> thank you for being with us. >> i appreciate it. >> we appreciate you coming here. we will look at some of the other persons that might come from the gtu. we like to always have access to them coming and you being a part of us. we want to highlight all that you do. >> thank you. >> thank you very much. >> thank you for being with us this morning on mosaic. and i hope that if you have an interest in gtu, the graduate

theological union, that you will check them out and support them. and as we said earlier, there are lectures coming up. there are always lectures there. we encourage you to support them. they do great work. thank you for joining us this morning.

happy sunday. welcome to bay sunday. i am your host, frank mallicoat. we begin with the weekly pitch. if you have a show idea, go to the facebook page. facebook.com/bay sunday. and hopefully we can get in touch. we begin at the movies this sunday starting march 13. asian-american media fast. over 200 filmmakers from here in the state, vietnam, south korea and the philippines, all showing up with creative movies. they have a little bit of everything. we are pleased to have the director masashi niwano and the filmmaker. great to have you here. >> thank you for having us. >> how excited are you? we were talkin