from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> today on face the nation, breaking news overnight from ukraine and we will honor two monumental anniversaries, 50 years apart that brought out the best in america. >> ukrainian forces and russian militants are at a standoff in eastern ukraine after a dangerous overnight development. we will have the latest from ukraine and we will talk to senator john mccain about what it means. then we will ask tennessee republican marsha blackburn and maryland democratic elijah cummings about hhs secretary sebelius's resignation and the controversy over equal pay for women. 50 years after the passage of the civil rights act where are we on civil rights today? we will have highlights from the civil rights summit at the lbj library in austin and our own

summit with tavis smiley from cbs, nicole hanna jones of republican a and eric dyson of georgetown university and evan wolf son and look back at the boston marathon attack one year later. plus an all-star panel of analysts. 60 years of news, because this is face the nation. captioning sponsored by cbs >> schieffer: good morning again, pro russian militants seized police stations in eastern ukraine, there is chaos and confusion today, ukrainian officials say gunfire was exchanged. pistol lard of sky news is there and filed this report for sky news by phone. >> the we are at the police headquarters, which remain firmly in the hands of those armed protesters and carrying

ak-47s, pistols and holsters on their hips and remain firmly in control of that building. they are reinforcing their barricades, there was a new delivery of, deliveries while we are filming and also filled sand bags, bashed wire and they are preparing to defends themselves, people are walking in the streets, there is a crowd in front of the police headquarters cheering well done, cheering on the men who are inside, asking for a referendum and chanting crimea are with russia. >> schieffer: and we are joined now by senator john mccain, who was recently in ukraine and more recently was sound asleep when we got ahold of him at 6:00 o'clock in morning and told him about these developments and asked him to join us. thanks for joining us. >> thanks, bob. >> schieffer: is this the tipping point for something here, what is going on here? what is going on? >> i think it is a result of,

very frankly, our lack of action to do anything important as a result of vladimir putin's annexation of the crimea which was predictable and what he is doing now is predictable. >> schieffer: do you think he is behind this. >> there is no doubt in anybody's mind, even though he would with a straight face tell the world's press that it was people who bought uniforms and went into crimea. i mean -- >> the state department seems to agree with you on this. >> of course. i mean, this is without a doubt the question now is what do we do and what does he do? it is obvious that he is encouraged by the fact that we sanctioned a few people and suspended -- didn't even throw him out of the g-8, and unless we act with firmness and strength, including beginning in my view with giving ukrainians some weapons to

defends themselves and some very, very severe sanctions that may cost our european friends and us something financially in the short-term, but the other thing is, the ukrainians will fight, they didn't fight in crimea, and probably not, but if they -- you, he starts moving further encroachment in this way in eastern ukraine they will fight. we ought to at least for god's sake give them some weapons, light weapons with which to defends themselves, so far this administration has not only not done that, but they won't even share some intelligence with the ukrainian government. i can tell you from my conversations with people in the government, they feel abandoned by us and rightfully so. this is shameful. >> military officials estimate that the russians have close to 50,000 troops, we are told now on the ukrainian border and say those forces could move in less than 12 hours if they chose to.

satellite photos showing russian jets parked tip to tip, wing tip to wing tip and tanks and infantry fighting trucks lined up in fields. do you think they are actually going to move into the ukraine? >> i think he is laying, weighing the cost benefit right now the options he has fomenting this discontent, every day that goes on prevents the government in can i ever to make the changes and reforms and election coming up and already dislocating and disturbing them and their ability to restore the economy. but one is the to continue this and to have kind of a de facto autonomous area, all the way to kiev some people believe that, the other way is to go south and go south to maldo va where he has 1,400 russian troops nearby there by making ukraine a landlocked country, his actions will be gauged by our reactions, but he obviously is with all of

his troops massed there he is keeping those options open, and for us to keep talking about off ramps, look, right now, he is going full speed ahead down the freeway, and there is no -- there is no tangible evidence of him having to pay a significant penalty, and by the way, severe penalties of sanctions can have an effect on their economy. they have a very fragile economy, so, it is 13thth larger a gas station masquerading as a country, so there are many actions we can take, but so far, there has been a lot of talk and no action. >> what leonard said the capitalist who hang themselves and we will sell them the rep rope to do it. well, two former chancellors have justified and apologized for putin's takeover of crimea, so we have got to lead, and where is the president of the united states? should didn't president of the united states be speaking forcefully and strongly and didn't the president say if they carried out further action there is would be further sanctions? so

far we haven't heard anything. >> schieffer: well the secretary of state stayed there will be additional consequences if they don't deescalate. >> they haven't deescalated, in fact, they have now fomenting this, using their gru secret service, secret special forces people that are fomenting this discontent. people in eastern ukraine don't want this. even though they are leaning sort of pro russian, they don't want this kind of thing. they want a government of ukraine, and unfortunately, i can tell you from talking to them, they feel that we are not giving them the support that they need. >> schieffer: senator thank you so much we know you are headed back into that territory later today. >> thank you. >> schieffer: and back at our capitol a lot of the same old, same old, republicans and democrats fighting over equal pay for women and there was talk about the resignation of health and human services secretary kathleen sebelius.

we are going to talk about that now, first with republican congresswoman marsha blackburn, she is in nashville this morning, congresswoman thank you for joining us this morning. while you were in new hampshire yesterday with a lot of the republicans who are thinking about running for president, what did you find? was there any consensus among them about what the resignation of catherine sebelius means and is it going to eye at the time controversy over obamacare? .. >> no, it is not going to quiet the controversy, bob, i think it is quite the opposite, what it has done is elevate some of the concerns. caldwell is an interesting choice and i think there are many of us and probably a bit of a growing consensus that they know they have got a problem with obamacare and the numbers are not going to work out so that the program is actually, actuarially sound and they are going to have to have somebody to kind of spin the numbers, and this is something which, with

bird well coming from omb i think they are expecting her to do for them. how many of these 7 million people have paid? how many actually signed up and paid and completed the process, how many got subsidies, how many are on medicaid? how many are young? you know, if those numbers don't work out exactly right they have a big funding issue on their hands. >> schieffer: well, will republicans still run on repeal and replace or will they offer something different or will they try to fix this system that we now have? >> i think what you are going to see is continue to repeal it and replace it. now we know we are not going to get it off the books until this president is out of office. >> schieffer: let me ask you about this debate over equal pay for women. >> sure. >> schieffer: there was a lot of debate on that last week, finally republicans blocked it in the senate. are republicans against equal pay for women and is that going to be a good political issue in these coming midterm elections?

>> you know, i find this war on women rhetoric almost just silly. it is republicans that have led the fight for women's equality, go back through history. and look at who was the first woman to ever vote, elected to office, go to congress. >> schieffer: but why don't the senate republicans who blocked this? >> well, because the legislation was something that was going to be helpful for trial lawyers and what we would like to see happen is equal opportunity and clearing up some of the problems that exist that are not fair to which. we are all for equal pay. i would love for women to be focused on maximum wage and i have fought to be recognized with equality for a long time. we get tired of guys being condescending to us. one of the things we need to do is look at access to capital, small business owners that are female, that is their number one problem, is access to capital. we need to also look at

regulations how that is affecting them, obamacare has been very unfair to women. we hear a good bit about this. women are the primary healthcare consumers in the country. 80 percent of all healthcare decisions are made by women, whether they are for their family or elder i willy relativy are caring for, so i think -- and by the way, the white house paying women 88 cents for every dollar that a guy earns in comparable positions and, you know, they need to go clean up their own act first. >> schieffer: all right. we have to stop there. there is so much news this morning, congresswoman we will get the other side of this from the democrats but thank you. >> thank you. >> schieffer: and joining us now democratic congressman elijah cummings who has come down from his district in baltimore this morning. congressman thank you for being here. >> good morning, bob. >> schieffer: what about this, marsha black burns says republicans are actually more equal pay for women .. yes, it was blocked in the senate by

republicans. >> yes. >> what is going on here. >> i respectfully disagree with my colleague. keep in mind, bob, that white women are making 77 cents for every dollar a man makes, african-american women and hispanic women, 64 cents .54 respect specifically, there is .. something absolutely wrong with that picture. they don't seem to be leading and seem to fight against and i r the life of me i can't understand why. >> schieffer: let me go back to kathleen sebelius and her resignation. you heard marsha blackburn say and she was at this conference of group of republicans many of whom are thinking about running for president, she says it is not going to change anything. do you think -- what was the impact of her resignation? >> well, i think first of all, i am glad that secretary sebelius was able to accomplish all the things she set out to do. keep in mind she was with the president from the very beginning of doing what no president has been able to do in

over 50 years, that, is bring healthcare to people who do not have it. she is, she accomplish what she needed to accomplish, she set a goal of 7 million people signing up for healthcare and got 7.5 million, 3 million others, extended medicaid, she accomplished a lot with regards to disparities, healthcare disparities, women herself and brought us, bob, closer to an hiv aids free generation than anyone. she has accomplished a lot. and now she extends the baton off to a wonderful public servant. po do you think that obamacare is going to be an anchor, a rock around the neck of democrats running this fall? it is by every poll still very unpopular. >> yeah, i think we have to go out there and argue the moral issues, bob, and i have never ran away from obamacare, because i see in my district and i have

a very diverse district of people who have been helped by it. and the idea that we now have gotten rid of preexisting conditions which was affecting millions upon millions of americans stopping them from getting insurance i think that is very significant. we have got to look at the good things, and we have got to go out there and make it clear it is something good for america. >> is your sense of it that the problems with this system, not the guess search, disastrous rollout that is over but the problems with the system itself is it your sense that those have for or less been smoothed out or will there be more problems ahead? >> i think they have been smoothed the out, when it cotops the web site, the web site was a significant problem and that goes back to sebelius. she was able to even with all of that and with opposition from the republicans she was still able to achieve the 7.5 million goal, and again, bob, i think that it is going to be fine, and i think a as far as the web site situation it will be a footnote in history. >> schieffer: all right.

well, congressman, so good to see you. >> good seeing you. >> schieffer: and we will be back.

well,. >> seldom do four presidents wind up at the same place, but that is what happened last week at the lbj library in austin, where former presidents jimmy carter, bill clinton and george w. bush joined president obama .. to reflect on the 50th anniversary of the passage of the civil rights act. here are some of their thoughts. >> we have pretty much dormant now and kind of accept the self congratulations, the wonderful 50th anniversary, which is wonderful, but we feel like, you know, lyndon johnson did it, we don't have to do anything anymore so i think of too many people are at ease with the still existing disparity. >> these divisions and the lack

of the spirit of coming together put us back in the dust bin of old history. we have too many current challenges to waste a day trying to recreate a yesterday that we are better off done with. we have too many challenges to waste any opportunity to work together, to deal with them. >> let me focus on one fact that is uncomfortable, even to contemplate. according to the most recent testing the average reading score for a white student at age 13 is about the same as an african-american at age 17. it is a four-year, four grade achievement gap. and our economy will hire skills are evermore necessary, that is scandalous, in a nation

dedicated to equal opportunity that is scandalous, among the political errors of king and johnson and dirk son and humphrey, this should be a national scandal demanding action. [ applause ] >> the story of america is a story of progress, and that is true because of men like president lyndon baines johnson. >> this man, born into poverty, weaned in a world full of racial hate fred somehow found within himself the ability to connect his experience with a brown child in a small texas town, the white child in appalachia, the black child in watts. .. as powerful as he became in

that oval office, he understood then, he understood what it meant to be on the outside. and he believed that their plight was his plight too. that his freedom ultimately was wrapped up in theirs, and the making their lives better was what the hell the presidency was for. [ applause ] >> schieffer: and to talk about all of it, we have assembled our own little summit on civil rights we are joined by nicole hanna jones of pro punishable a and the atlantic, georgetown university michael eric dyson, plus evan wolfson of freedom to marry and out in los angeles pbs's tavis smiley. >> nicole i want to talk to you first, because you have done fj some recent research on this. do you think george bush is right? is this a national

scandal we face here that the reading scores amongst black african americans is still so much worse than it is among whites? and what is to be done about that? >> well, i have spent the last year focusing on resegregation and really what integration did for our country, and what it did in terms of education and black students was it greatly narrowed the achievement gap. >> schieffer: so are you saying we are resegregating our schools is what you found? >> absolutely. you can look at the demographic data. i particular, marley focused on the south which has become the most integrated region of the country because of federal action and court orders, and you are seeing that once districts are release grad their court orders they do start to take actions to resegregate and2aq that happens the achievement gap has widened. >> michael, what is your take on this summit that we just had here and what nicole has just said. >> the summit is extraordinary, to talk about lyndon baines johnson, 50 years afterwards.

here, john f. kennedy gained in death what he didn't necessarily earn earn in life, an ernest reputation for the achievement of civil rights but the so-called redneck president from texas did more for black people, i would argue than any president since abraham lincoln, he joined the figureable in 2,000 the greatest americans to ever live, martin luther king in a kind of fellowship of common ideas, along with many others, but the civil rights leader and the president joined together to forge connections that were both prophetic and also politically savvy to forge difference and democracy in this nation, the tragedy is we have come down from that mountain, the supreme court has said that the very means by which we have achieved justice in terms of voting rights is a significant symbol that we no longer needed, that kind of logic is askew so what we need to do is recuperate and regenerate the same kind of prophetic passion that lbj and mlk had together. >> tavis smiley what is your

take on where we are today on equality? >> i think it is fair, bob, to say it is a mixed bag. there are some americans who are gaining ground, other americans who are losing frowned, it is as if the american house is putting out the welcome matt for some groups but still posting no trespassing signs on the lawn for other groups. i sense that our nation, back to what president carter said on tape a few moments ago there is sort of a fundamental fairness fatigue that has afflicted too too many of our fellow citizens. as dr. dyson just intimated for dr. king and others in the movement the voting rights act was the starting line not the finish line so 50 years later we need to have a conversation, bob, not just about civil rights, civil, but about economic rights, economic freedom, black folks lag behind in every leading economic category 50 years later, even in the obama era and the bottom line is this, if you don't have

economic freedom you really ain't free so that poverty then becomes a sort of new slavery, so the time has come for us to have a conversation again not just about civil rights and celebrating that 50 years later but how do we get on, bob talking about economic rights for all americans. >> schieffer: all right. evan wilson we will come to you in part two of this conversation, which we are going to continue about gay rights and where does that fit into all of that. up next, some personal thoughts about another anniversary. >> pro i had a chance to be

at the civil rights summit in texas last week and it was a breathtaking monument to courage, one of those times you remember why you are proud to be an american. but when i realized tuesday is the anniversary of the boston bombing it reminded me that on

our worst days we also see america at its finest. >> we can never forget the heinous crime but more important to remember are the great acts of heroism that day. >> these are scenes that need no words. pictures that need no captions. it is sometimes lost in today's selfish political discourse but these pictures show us that the courage we have seen so often in the struggle for human rights and throughout our history is still a part of us. what makes us the country we have always been. and if we choose the country we will always be. >> we will be back in a minute. >>

>> schieffer: well, some of our sessions are leaving us, but we will be back with a lot more of face the nations including more with our civil rights panel and our political analysts and plus one of washington's brightest acts, stay with us. plus one of washington's brightest acts, stay with us. >> ,,,,,,,,

♪ ♪ [cheers and applause] >> they've come to inform me as we're so great as amateurs, then i get to the pros and it doesn't happen for them, and i think because there have been some of those people, they automatically expect those guys to fail. he's going to choke, he's going to crumble under pressure. he's a super mini rider. what makes me not run away from that, i mean, i could easily quit, go enroll myself in high school