from cbs news in washington, "face the nation" with bob schieffer. >> schieffer: today on "face the nation," the president issues a new warning to russia over ukraine, and in the middle east, a surprised announcement from the palestinian side. is it an overture to restart the peace talks? we'll start there with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. we'll have the latest from ukraine and get the take on that from the administration and capitol hill. plus, former presidential candidate rick santorum on georgia's new gun law and a unique event in catholic church history. 60 years of news because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs

>> schieffer: and good morning again. the peace talks in the middle east between the israelis and the palestinians broke down last week when mahmoud abbas announced his group was reuniting with ham as, an organization it's united states and israel branded a terrorist group. well, today on the eve of holocaust remembrance day, abbas issued a statement decrying the killing of 6 million jews and saying the holocaust was the most heinous crime against humanity in modern history. in the middle east where many deny the holocaust even happened, it is the first time a leader of the plo has ever issued such a statement. so what does it mean? israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu joins us from jerusalem. prime minister, what do you make of this statement? >> well, i think the difficulty is to reconcile that statement that president abbas is making a

few days after he embraces ham asthat denies it's holocaust and calls for perpetrating another holocaust against the 6 million jews of the state of israel. so president abbas has to decide whether he wants 0 pact with hammas or peace with israel. he cannot speak out of both sides of his mouth. he cannot embrace hamas and say that he wants peace with israel. in fact, what i say to him very simplily is this, president abbas, tear up your pact with hamas. recognize the jewish state, make peace. i hope you do that. but you can't have both hamas and peace with israel. >> schieffer: well, do you intend to sort of find out or see what he's saying here? do you think this could be some kind of an overture? >> i think it's an overture to american public opinion to will public opinion to try to placate and somehow smooth over the fact that he made a terrible step away from peace. he made a giant leap backward

away from peace because he embraced hamas that calls for the extermination of jews worldwide, for the eradication of israel, and actually acts on a daily basis against peace by firing thousands of rockets against israel, having sent scores of suicide bombers against us, digging tunnels to kidnap our soldiers and sit zens -- all sorts of horrible things hamas does. i suppose president abbas is under pressure to explain why he embraces these people. and this may be a way of trying to exculpate himself. but it doesn't. you have to decide, as i said, you have to decide if you join forces with these people, with hamas -- by the way, not only is calling for israel's destruction, these are the people who praise bin laden as a holy warrior. these are the people who condemn the united states for killing bin laden. so you can say nice things about -- or even significant things about the holocaust, but you can't embrace those who deny

the holocaust and asking to commit another holocaust. >> schieffer: prim minister, some people are saying that the reason that hamas has come over to the plo or says they want to be part of that now is that they are very weak and your critics are saying that you are using this simply as an excuse not to negotiate, that you really don't want an agreement that will lead to two separate states. >> i've negotiated in ernest -- earnest for the last nine months and i worked very closely with secretary kerry days, weeks, days at a time actually, and we made some significant progress and i thought we were on route to making more progress last tuesday night. i spoke to secretary kerry after our teams met with the plins and we were remarking on the fact that we made some progress. and then the next day, we were both shocked -- there's no other word -- we were absolutely

stupfied that president abbas embraced the terrorist organization of hamas that seeks israel's destruction. it's just incompatible with peace. so we've been negotiating and i hope that we'd make thising pro%. i -- progress. i heap president abbas decides to tear up that pact with hamas and go back to the negotiations. but that's -- the ball is in his court. and this is not an excuse. you wouldn't negotiate with an organization -- with a government that would be backed by alqaeda, that seeks to destroy the united states. you wouldn't do that. you wouldn't expect us to do that. and i think those who are suggesting that are really offering something that can't be accepted. >> schieffer: are you saying, sir, that there can be no discussion with the plo as long as hamas is a part of it? >> i'm saying something very clear. as long as i'm prime minister of israel, we will not negotiate with a government that is backed by hamas, an organization that

is committed to our destruction. it's common sense. of course. i mean, you want to make peace with an enemy, but only with an enemy that's decided to make peace. an enemy that seeks your destruction, what are we going to talk about? the method of our self-annihilation? it just doesn't make sense. >> schieffer: what do you do then? >> i think palestinian unity, bob. >> schieffer: i'm just -- while they were weak, it's important to get them weaker. egypt -- well, you'll bring them into -- if al-qaeda is weak, you don't say let's bring al-qaeda into the tent and begin to negotiate with them. there's some groups, some movement, some organizations that you do not negotiate with. you don't negotiate with al-qaeda, political negotiations. we don't negotiate with hamas, as long as they seek our destruction. you have to be very clear on that. and i'm being very clear. and i think that's -- that not being clear endangers peace, because when you talk to people who seek your obliteration,

you're not going to advance peace. you're going to produce the opposite. and i think president abbas had a choice to make. he could embrace us and he could confront hamas. i had hoped that he had made that choice. now he's embracing hamas, thereby confronting, i think delivering a devastating blow to the peace process. and he really has to choose. it's very simple. it's common sense. and it's right. >> schieffer: prime minister, always good to have you with us. thanks for being with us. >> thank you, bob. schieffer: joining us now is the white house deputy national security advisor tony blinken. mr. blinken, you heard the prime minister. he says no way, no how as long as hamas is involved. so where do you go from here? >> bob, first of all, we've been leading through secretary kerry an effort to bring the parties together to see if we could get to a peace agreement. they made significant progress but they also are at a point

where each side has to make very, very tough decisions, and thus far they're not prepared to make. and so i think we need to step back, let each side consider the alternatives, and then see if there's a basis to move forward. when it comes to hamas and fatah, we've heard the story before. there have been periodic announcements that they were going to try to get together. what we heard this week from president abbas was an announcement that they would begin a conversation to see if they could form a unity government. threat see what happens. but our principles are very clear. any palestinian government has to recognize israel. it has to renounce violence. it has to accept past agreements. that's the basis upon which we would work with such a government and it's reasonable to expect israel to work with such a government on that basis as well. >> schieffer: all right. well, let's go on to the other story that is dominating the news, the crisis in ukraine. president obama this morning issued a new warning to the russians over ukraine. >> so long as russia continues

down the path of provocation rather than trying to resolve this issue peacefully and de-escalating, there are going to be consequences and those consequence also continue to grow. >> schieffer: so what are the consequences? >> bob, a week ago, the russians signed on to a road map to deescalate the crisis to ukraine. unfortunately, they haven't lived up to any of the commitments they made in that agreement. so on friday, even though he was in asia, the president convened a call with all of the senior european leaders and they agreed starting this week we would exert additional pressure on russia through sanctions and that will begin to roll out as early as tomorrow. we've already sin a significant impact of the pressure we've exerted on russia over the last several weeks. their financial market's dune 22% since the beginning of the year. the ruble at its lowest levels ever. foreign investment sitting on the fence. and growth being in great jeopardy. >> schieffer: but here's the thing. none of that has worked so far. why do you think it's going to work now? >> president putin has to make a

fundamental choice. he had a contact with his people and the contact is this, i'll deliver economic growth for you if you remain politically complacent. the growth started to dry up at the beginning year. and then this crisis hit. and through putin's actions, he's isolated russia and the economy. these step also further that. that's not where we want to go but it's where we have to given what he's done. that means that the contact he has with his people is in great jeopardy. he has to make a very hard choice. he can either continue to do what he's doing in the ukraine or take some of that pressure off. >> schieffer: european allies are going to have to -- >> under obama's leadership, yes. he's been in constant communication with our european allies again even from asia. and what he did on friday in bringing them all together, focusing them on the fact that russia has not made good on its commitments, an agreement to move forward with additional pressure and sanctions, they're with us and, indeed, being

deliberate about this, having them with makes what we do that much more effective. that's why we put a premium on it. >> schieffer: into his inner circle is going to be hit with asset freezes on monday? >> well, we're going to save a little news for monday. what i can tell you is this. we will be looking to designate people who are in his inner circle who have a significant impact on the russian economy. we'll be looking to designate companies that they and other inner circle people control. we'll be looking at taking steps with regard to high technology exports to their defense industry. all of this together is going to have an impact. >> schieffer: all right. thank you so much. i want to go back, mr. blinken to the president's news conference this morning because he was responding to a story that has absolutely exploded over the last 24 hours. the owner of a los angeles clippers donald sterling, was caught on audiotape telling his girlfriend not to pose for pictures with black people and

not to then bring them to basketball games. this obviously has outraged civil rights leaders. the nba has launched an investigation. and here's how the president responded to those remarks. >> when people -- when ignorant folks want to advertise their ignorance, you don't really have to do anything. you just let them talk, and that's what happened here. >> schieffer: well, we'll obviously be hearing a lot more about this story as it develops. we want to go now to the top republican on the senate foreign relations committee, tennessee's bob corker. he is in cottonwood, arizona, this morning. and senator, you told me just a moment ago that you had not yet even heard about this development out there. but do you have any thoughts on this remark by this basketball owner? >> it's just outrageous.

in 2014 that comments like these are being made. so i thought the president's response was appropriate, and i don't know what else to add to it. it's beyond belief. >> schieffer: well, we will obviously be hearing some more about it. let me ask you about these sanctions you heard tony blin -- blinken say here those sanction also go into effect. but is that going to be enough? you're just back from ukraine and i know the sanctions so far have had no impact whatsoever. >> yeah, bob. i think these targeted sanctions against individuals just are not effecting -- affecting putin's behavior enough. and you'll notice the red line has now moved. last week the red line was demobilized in the 40,000 troops that are on the border that are in intimidating people inside eastern ukraine. now it's just him not going in. so i've been advocating as so many people have, carl lavin was

just in the area. he was there a day after me, a democrat, as you know, was also advocating that we begin hitting companies within russia to further destabilize their economy. their goal, russia's goal inside ukraine is to destabilize the country, to delegitimize the elections that are taking place on may 25th. and over time, he can achieve his goals without actually sending troops in. i think he has little green men inside causing problems inside eastern ukraine. today the people of eastern ukraine are not yet with putin. he's trying to change that dynamic. it's amazing the only information that people in eastern ukraine are getting is from russia. that's the only russian-speaking news that is occurring. so over time, continuing to do what is doing, he can do without actually sending people in. so, again, i think we need to put sectoral sanctions in place. i think we need to move those troops away from the boder, change the -- border, change the

behavior. and i'm very concerned that, as we've seen from this administration on so many tough issues, their policies are always late, after -- after the point in time when we could have made a difference in the outcome. so i'm very concerned. i've been -- >> schieffer: -- i've been sayg that on telephone calls with the white house and emails. but i hope tomorrow's sanctions are much stronger than just against individuals. >> schieffer: well, how do you move those stroops off the -- troops off the border, senator? >> well, again, i think that was part of the agreement that took place last week. i think that, again, the intimidation that's occurring there is destabilizing eastern ukraine. so again with sanctions. that was what the agreement was about. russia has not lived up to that agreement. and to me, again, much tougher sanctions need to be put in place. i realize that we want to act -- go ahead. >> schieffer: let me ask you. what are much tougher sanctions? what would that mean? help us understand.

>> well, you know, so i think you've read recently where the russian economy is certainly very fragile. there's concerns internally about them going into a recession. to me, hitting four of the largest banks there would send shock waves into the economy, so again to me, bob, what i fear is all we're doing is tweaking folks, okay, these are oligarchs. we really aren't affecting the upper middle class in russia. a broader base of citizens in russia at present. and i think, again, these sanctions on individuals are not having the -- it's not creating the kind of pain within russia that will cause putten to change his behavior. by the way, again, these calls are bipartisan. i think there's concern on both sides of the aisle that the administration in exercising such cautiousness, as they did in syria, where we've ended up in a situation that is one of the biggest humanitarian crises

we've seen in a long, long time, by being so cautious, by being unwilling to confront someone who only responds to action, not words. i think you've seen recently where they're having some kind of hashtag tweet war. those are not the kind of things that putin responds to. i think we need to hit him much more toughly prior to him taking steps that are going to be very difficult to undo. >> schieffer: all right. well, senator, thank you so much. and we'll be talking to you through the week on this. and we'll be back in one minute with the top democrat claire mccaskill. means advanced technology. we learned that technology allows us to be craft oriented. no one's losing their job. there's no beer robot that has suddenly chased them out. the technology is actually creating new jobs. siemens designed and built the right tools and resources

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that's blown up overnight about the owner of the los angeles clippers' basketball team. is there anything that can be done about that beyond what the national basketball association could do? >> well, in our country, we have a first amendment, which allows ignorant racists to say whatever they want to say. however, i hope the nba takes swift action against this man. i can't imagine how it must feel to be one of the african-americans playing on his team, how they must feel today. knowing that the owner of the team is obviously such an ignorant racist. >> schieffer: right. i want to talk to you -- and the reason we asked you this morning -- you had launched a survey of college campuses looking for an investigation into what the campuses are doing about sexual assaults. now, you've been one of the leaders in making the military more accountable to sexual

assaults in the military. just tell us what it is you're trying to do here and where do you see this going? >> well, we've accomplished a long list of historic and sweeping reforms in the military that gives victims much more power and deference that gives them more protection and information, and i see a lot of similarities on college campuses in terms of a closed cultural environment where victims are so worried about how they're going to be viewed if they come out of the shadows. so i think the first step is to look at how college campuses are dealing with this now. i know from my experience as a prosecutor that there's a natural conflict many times between university police and municipal police, local law enforcement versus university law enforcement. and frankly, the laws are very complicated. they overlap in some ways. they contradict one another. i think it's time we get a really good idea of what's going on on all of their campuses across the country.

that's what this survey is for. then we'll take the next steps, which would be stakeholder roundtables, hearings, and then ultimately legislation. >> schieffer: i guess there are two questions that i have. number one, how can you get victims to report these crimes. as i understand it, maybe fewer than 5% of these assaults are now reported. at least that's what we think. and i guess the second question i would have is, can you force colleges to do this? can you withhold federal funds from colleges if they are not properly enforcing these laws? >> well, 21st, as to victims. these young people need to make sure -- we need to make sure they understand, you don't have to be perfect judgment to be a victim of a felony. i think many times young students are second-guessing themselves. oh, did i drink too much? i shouldn't have gone to his room. i didn't know him well enough. and they do a self-blame. part of that is because they

don't know where to go to get the help, support, information they need. we've seen a 50% increase in reporting within the military since we've instituted our reforms. now i think we can see that same kind of increase if we turn our attention on college campuses. it's the same crime, bob. if you are passed out drunk or if there is a gun to your head, it is the same crime. it is a crime where there is not consent. it is a felony. and we need to start making sure victims understand that so they don't do the self-blame. >> schieffer: can you use -- can you withhold federal funds if the colleges don't comply? and we're running out of time here. about 20 seconds. >> there -- there is, in fact, ways to withhold funds. but we've got it make sure that we have the right systems in place and processes in place and then we can go after really strict enforcement and hopefully increase the number of prosecutions of these perpetrators that are preying on young women. >> schieffer: all right. thank you so much. and we'll be back in a minute.

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>> schieffer: we don't hear good manners and politician in the same sentence much around here anymore, but every once this a while, someone reminds us of how people used to act. last week, it was bob dole, the one-time republican presidential candidate and longtime senate republican leader. he's 90 now, no longer running for anything. but he sent out on a tour of his home state of kansas for no reason but to say thank you. >> we had a great time so far. had a lot of wonderful people. and you can take the boy out of kansas, but you can't take kansas out of the boy. >> reporter: he made nine stops over three days and planned 16 more stops next month. back when he was senator dole, he was a regular guest on "face the nation." and almost always came armed

with some news and usually a little humor. >> schieffer: welcome back, senator dole. we haven't seen you in a while. where have you been? >> i've been about everywhere floo in kansas last week, he was everywhere again. >> i want to thank you all for coming. i'm going to say hello and get a few pictures and then bill's going to give me a million dollars. (laughter) that's my normal speaking fee. (laughter) that's why i don't make any speeches. >> schieffer: well, thank you, senator dole. we miss you around here. ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ]

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>> schieffer: some of our stations are leaving us now but for most of the you, we'll be right back with more "face the nation" including former republican presidential candidate rick santorum and our panel. so stay with us. ,,,,,,,,,,

>> schieffer: welcome back to "face the nation." we are returning to the crisis in ukraine because there have been some new developments this morning. cbs news correspondent holly williams is in a city that is being held by separatists. holly, what's the latest? >> reporter: good morning, bob, here in sloviansk on friday, pro separatetivities took observers prisoner and they are now claiming they are spice. it's been under the control of russian-speaking militant it's for nearly two weeks now and today the town's self-proclaimed separatist mayor told us that they are at war, that those observers are now prisoners of war and that he wants to swap them for militants who have been arrested by ukraine's government. we've just now come from a press conference where the eight european observers were let out and able to take questions from

journalists. they tooked tense and unhappy. the head of the team, colonel axle snyder, denied that they had undertaken any covert activities and stressed that they had diplomatic status. he said they were being treated well but said he did not know that the separatists considered them to be prisoners of war. events in this small town and across eastern ukraine are fueling the worst tensions between washington and moscow since the cold war. both ukraine and the u.s. accuse russia of inciting the separatist insurgency here and of aiding the militants. russia has denied that it's stirring up the unrest but warned if there's violent here, it could intervene militarily. thousands of russian troops are massed at ukraine's border where they've been carrying out military exercises. but so far, u.s. intelligence does not believe that they're readying for an imminent invasion. >> schieffer: thank you very much, holly. thank you. >> reporter: thank you, bob. schieffer: well, we're going to answer the question now, what

has republican former republican presidential candidate rick santorum been doing lately? well, he has just published a new book. it is called "blue color conservative" and he joins us from austin, texas. but in the immediate past, you were at the nra convention, the gun owners' convention, and i wanted to start there, because i want to ask you about this again law that they just passed down in georgia, which is, as i understand it, allows people to take guns into airports. do you think that's a good idea, senator? >> you know, i think a -- i said this at the nra. i think a well-armed family is a safe family. i think a well-armed america is a safe america. if you look at these attacks that had taken place, if people had weapons, those attacks would have been thwarted and lives would have been saved. there are millions of saves that have been saved -- lives that

have been saved over the years. because of having guns at the scene. >> schieffer: but isn't there also a possibility that a lot of people could have been killed in a crossfire if a gunfight had broken out? as i understand it, you can't go through a security for -- >> of course not. schieffer: but you can walk up to security with a gun. does that mean you can take like an ak-47 into the airport? >> i don't know who wants to take an ak-47 into an airport unless you're going there to cause some harm and, of course, they don't really care if they break the law or not. that's really the point. this is where law-abiding people are going to have the right to defend themselves. my wife and i both have concealed carry permits because we believe we have an obligation to protect ourselves like everybody else does. no, i don't think this is going to do anything to encourage some bad guy to cause harm in an airport. but it's going to create an opportunity that if something maybe bad does happen in an airport that maybe someone will be there to be able to stop it.

>> schieffer: does it bother you or does it worry you that we may be going backwards, that we're going back to the day of the okay coral and the old west where everybody carried a gun? is that where we're headed here? >> you know, everybody romanticizes the ok coral and all of the things that happened. but gun crimes aren't very prevalent back then. why? because people carry guns. and the folks who use guns in the commission of crimes are cowards. they do so -- and if you look -- they went to a theater in colorado where they knew nobody else was going to be there with a gun. if we are a country where the criminal doesn't know whether someone has a gun or not, they're going to think twice about whether opening fire or not because they won't be able to accomplish what they want. it's a wrong-headed approach that somehow or another that we if we take guns away from law-abiding people who want to protect themselves that the world is going to be safer. in fact, just the opposite is the case.

>> schieffer: i would just say one thing. some of these most horrible crimes we've recently had were committed by people who had he is veer mental problems. do you think that would bother them to know that people might have gun? i'm not sure they would know about that. >> just because somebody has a mental problem doesn't mean they don't look at a situation and make an assessment. no, i think people do analyze the situation and if they want to accomplish something, they want to kill a lot of people, they're not going to go into place that has someone who's going to shoot back. >> schieffer: let's talk a little bit about your book. it's called "blue color conservative." >> that's right. and you're saying that one of the things the republicans are doing wrong, as i understand the point of your book, if this is the point, is that you think you're focusing too much on job creators and not enough on the working people who have these jobs. explain. >> well, that's absolutely true. if you listen to republican rhetoric, it's always focused on job creation and macroeconomics and it doesn't include all these

folks who healed jobs who are not -- hold jobs who are not job creators. i use the example of the tuesday night at the republican national convention in 2012. i spoke that night, and we had a series of folks come out there as the people in the stands held the sign "we built that." one after another, small business person go out and talk about how they built that and how they really offended when president obama said you didn't build that. we didn't have one time that two people walked out, a job holder who said, i have this job because of the tremendous effort and investment and risk taking and work that this person here provided so i can have an opportunity to raise my family and then had the job creator put their arm around the person and say, you know, my business is successful because of the teamwork that we have of these great folks who worked in our operation. that's the problem with republicans. we don't -- we aren't unified. i think the democrats divide labor management. they're always dividing. we need to have a unifying message that talks more about

average working folks who are being left behind by both parties, in my opinion. the democrats just want to throw money at them. and republicans aren't talking about them and how we're going to create opportunities for folks who are falling back as a result of president obama's policies. >> schieffer: let me ask you about one statement in your book that really stood out to me. you said, "i would much rather my children know how to fix an 18-wheeler and enlist in the navy than spend $150,000 to marinate four years in toxic academia." are you against people going to college? >> no, i'm not against people going to college. but what i'm for is making sure that everybody in america has opportunity, and we need to hold up all workers in america, not just those who get high degrees in academia. i think -- and it's not to say those aren't good things. those are good things and we should affirm those -- we need to affirm all work. >> schieffer: let me just ask you this and i honor people who work. i used to belong to the

carpenter's union when i was in high school. i know about working outdoors and i know that's what made me want to go to college and get an indoor job. but beyond that, are you afraid of what children -- i mean, i know you've home-schooled your children. are you afraid of what they would learn in college? and what are you afraid they'll find out that you don't want them to know about? >> i have three kids in college this year, so i'm in the afraid of that. i went to college. i have a graduate degree and a law degree. so, no, i'm in the afraid of that. but 70% of americans, bob, aren't going to get a college degree. that's just the reality. and that's not going to change dramatically. and those folks are not doing well in this economy. and we don't have anybody out there fightingfor them. this president is not fighting for them. in fact, his policies are destroying the very jobs -- you see three-quarters of the people lost their jobs during this great recession, have taken jobs that are less money since it -- gotten jobs that are less money than they had before. they're falling back. they're hurting. and nobody is out there saying,

what are we going to do to create opportunities, not in the high technology -- that's great. we need to do that but in energy and manufacturing and construction and where people work with their hands and do things that create a mult plir effect that manufacturing does that create jobs for hard working americans. >> schieffer: final question. do i take it from what you're saying this morning that you are running for the republican presidential nomination next year? >> i'm not making any announcements this morning. but, look, but i'm writing book because i believe america is in trouble, and i learned a lot from the 2012 race, and we're going to stay engaged in this prose and we'll make a decision next year as to whether we run or not. but i'm going to stay very, very engaged and hope knee republican candidates across the country will get this book, look at it, and begin to talk to folks who should be voting for us, that should be helping to us change mesh america but are not. >> schieffer: all right. thank you so much, senator. back in a minute.

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life with crohn's disease ois a daily game of "what if's". what if my abdominal pain and cramps end our night before it even starts? what if i eat the wrong thing? what if? what if i suddenly have to go? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need, talk to your doctor and visit crohnsandcolitisadvocates.com to connect with a patient advocate from abbvie for one-to-one support and education. >> schieffer: and for some analysis on all of the above, we're joined by nia-malika henderson of "the washington post, "new york times" white house correspondent peter baker and "time" editor bobby ghosh. a bigs story in the paper this morning about the sanctions. you heard tony blinken this

morning. they're going to roll some of them out tomorrow. what do you anticipate here? and are they going to have any impact? because so far it seems to me they haven't. or maybe they have. >> well, so far they've had a very limited approach to this. particular individuals and particular institutions. we did hear tony say they're going to go after some of the defense industry tomorrow, which is going to be interesting it see. they're claiming credit for these sanctions for all the economic problems russia's having more generally. i don't know if that's a direct relationship or not. they argue it is. but you're hearing a debate inside the administration much like bob corker told you. should they go stronger? she they could go sectoral sanctions? and you heard tony blinken say they're waiting basically for europe. they're trying to stay stitched together with europe. they're not going to go beyond europe. it's too important to them to keep them unified even at the expense of doing some toughers things people want them to do. >> schieffer: the allies, the europeans are with us, but

that's not entirely the case, is it? >> yeah, they want to have a little bit of a distance. i think -- i would like to hear what angle a merkel has to say much more than what the obama administration has to say. they're also going along with small targeted sanctions, but the stakes are a lot higher for europeans. russia's strength with europe is ten times russia's strength with the u.s. >> schieffer: he could also cut off the gas. >> he could cut off the gas and that might not seem as much of a problem as we go into spring and summer but come into winter he has the ability to make it very, very cold indeed, especially northern europe. so they, i think, would like to take little baby steps along the way and hope that that will have an impact. they seem to be comfortable with the americans going harder and harsher, but i don't think that that will change putin's calculus. yes, the russian stock market is

down. yes, the -- it hasn't changed putin's posture a notch. so it's going to take something of the order of getting russians out of swift which is this interbanking deal that allows banks to trade currencies with each other. if you take russia out of that union, then all of russia's banks immediately go into -- something of that order might change -- might move the needle with putin. but nobody's proposing that yet. >> schieffer: i want to talk a little bit about domestic politics and just go directly to it, because i want to play something for all of you this morning that has already been seen on various places. but it is very unusual, because you see speaker john boehner talking about how tough it is to get people in his own party to get on bord in immigration. let's just listen to it. >> here's the attitude. oh, don't make me do this.

(laughter) oh, this is too hard. you should hear 'em. you know, we get elected to make choices. we get elected to solve problems. and it's remarkable to me how many of my colleagues just don't want to -- they're human. they're going to take the path of least resistance. (laughter) >> he's not talking about democrats. he's talking about people in his own party. what happened here, an epiphany on the road to damascus here? this is like something out of the bible. >> i think john boehner really knew where john boehner stood on this. he said over and over again that he wanted to see immigration -- a reform done this year. he said last year. but he went in january to his caucus and presented a plan in maryland and he got a lot of the nos. he got a lot -- what he said there, a lot of whining and a lot of the sense of this wouldn't be good to do in an

election year. i think everyone is looking at this in the broader context of john boehner's future as speak he o -- speaker of the house. it does seem a little bit of a rebellion. 40 to 50 people caucusing, conservatives saying, is there someone who is more conservative that could take the helm in november after boehner? and there are all sorts of whispering in washington about whether or not he continues. he's got this house in florida that he recently bought. so i think some people are seeing it in the context of that as well. >> schieffer: what's interesting and i think all of us would agree on this, republican leaders at the national level all know that if the republican party is going to remain a viable party as far as electing national leaders, it's going to have to make some accommodation on immigration, because the demographics -- it just can't succeed otherwise. but we also know that most members of congress who are republicans are in districts

where there are very few hispanics to voting against reform is a very easy vote for him. so what's happening here, peter? do you see -- is bainor getting ready to say goodbye here? (laughter) as nia-malika henderson suggests? >> maybe he's just getting ready for that condo in florida. he's obviously can pressing flustration he's been feeling for a long time and it comes out in his home district. whether that frustration leads him to try to do something about it is a different question. can he enforce disciplining his caucus to go in the direction he wants. the direction he wants isn't necessarily the same as president obama. he has different ideas he'd like to do in pieces rather than one big bill. but you can see where he and obama can come to an agreement if he hasmore flexibility. he doesn't have that right now. >> schieffer: do any of you see this congress actually taking up immigration? because you know, they have said earlier this year there would be no himgation reform and so far they pretty much held to that.

there's no nothing. they've all gone home and said, we'll be back after the election. but do you see them turning back immigration now? >> i can't imagine that they would. the closer we get to the election, the less likely they are. the reason you explained. s it's not popular with each individual congressman. it's not going to get them reelected. if there's any talk of reform, it makes their chances. re-election much more precarious. so i don't expect it. >> they don't feel that they need to do this necessarily for this fall because it's a smaller, more republican electorate than you get in a presidential year. they might want to dom back in the -- come back in the lame duck, spring of 2015 and feel more pressure at that point. >> and it could be after the november elections, the republicans have a pretty good chance of actually taking this in. it's been 65% chance. and it could be that we see a senate controlled by the republicans, a house controlled by the republicans.

in this realization that republicans need to do immigration reform and blunt this issue as a campaign issue. >> schieffer: what do they think over at the white house? do they think that republicans may actually capture the senate? >> they wouldn't say it here, but, yes, i think they do. and they're worried about it a lot. i think some weeks they're more optimistic than others. i think they see that as a real possibility and a frustrating final two years for president obama's term laying ahead if that happens. >> schieffer: i don't know what the question is, i would just -- (laughter) a los angeles clippers owner and this stupid -- if i may use that term -- remark that he is caught on tape saying. i understand a spokesman put out a thing and said the tape does not reflect his real feelings. well, apparently, it's his voice. >> yeah. schieffer: they're suggesting maybe it was edited or something. >> adam silver, the commissioner of the nba, he has to verify whether that is his vice. the clippers play this after

noon. doc rivers said the protest will be their play. some people like lebron james had said, listen, maybe they shouldn't play. magic johnson said he'll never go to a clippers game again. that's after the cliveen bundy thing. we've had these real high-profile exarchts of -- what wharchs of what is just racism. >> 50 years after the civil rights act and it's still an issue. politicians who have supported the -- you mentioned for other reasons are now put on the hot seat. do you agree with this? of course i don't agree with that. and now the nba is going to be put on the hot spot. where does free speech end and having some sort of civil conversation with your most popular stars and the people who watch the game, all of whom -- many of whom anyway find this very offensive. >> schieffer: getting back to republican politics, jeb bush is apparently now thinking about

running. i have a source that told me that, if jeb bush decides not to run, that mitt romney may actually try it again. >> wow! third time's a charm. >> schieffer: because they're very concerned that the party is not moving forward, that the party has moved so far to the right that they can't elect a presidential candidate. now, whether any of this happens or not, what do you think, bob? >> if he does run again, what we learned the second time he ran was that he moved more to the right. and i suspect if he runs for a third time, we'll see that continuing. he'll move even further to the right to try and appeal to those remaining few percentages of the party that did not embrace in the last time around. if they're seeing him as a centrist, as somebody who can get at all the different strings of the party together, i don't think the evidence supports that. it suggests that he will move even further and further away, towards more and more extreme positions and that's not going to be good for the -- i suspect not going to be good for the

party. >> schieffer: we should talk a little bit about the president's trip to asia. it's been dominated by other news at every stop he gets asked about something else. but was this a success? what was it? >> i think we're beginning finally -- he's been talking about it for a while but we're finally beginning to see what his asia -- looks like. he's been overshadowed by events. but the important thing is that trip and everything he's been saying in that trip not directed at the american public. it's directed at one specific audience. that is china. you can be sure that in china, they're following very, very closely. they are not distractioned by things like the la clippers guy or other american domestic policy. they're paying very close attention. he has made it very clear in japan that he supports japan over china. this military deal that he's about to sign tomorrow in the philippines is of enormous significance. it gets american military back in that part of world after 25 years. >> schieffer: well, thank you, all. there's no short i of things to -- shortage of things to talk

about. we could continue all afternoon. we'll be right back with a report from rome about the two popes who became saints today.

>> schieffer: we now want to take a look at something that has never happened before. today in rome, two popes were made saints on the same day. cbs news correspondent allen pizzey is in rome. >> reporter: good morning, bob. may be one of the few times the description understates the case. four popes in the same place at the same time. ♪ relics of a few new saints were placed next to the altar. their bodies buried in st. basilica. "we declare john paul and to be saints and they are to be venerated as such through the whole church." benedict xvi the first pope to retire in 600 years.

the two new saints lived through the tragic events of the 20th century but they were not overwhelmed by them. john xxiii known to italians as the good pope initiated the modernizing second vatican council. john paul ii is credited with helping end the cold war and bring down communism. criticism of the speed of his cannonization and what some see as mishandling of the church sex abuse scandal did nothing to dampen the enthusiasm of the 500,000 faithful who packed the area around the vatican. and when it was over, frances starched the style of his papacy on the day. >> allen pizzey in rome. thanks, allen and we'll be right back.

>> osgood: that' schieffer: that's all for today. we'll see you next sunday. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org bulldog: you don't need superpowers to help someone.

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