>> schieffer: we turn now to the ip creasingly volatile situation in ukraine. cbs news foreign correspondent clarissa ward joins us. >> there has been sporadic fighting across parts of eastern ukraine as military continues with its offensive to try to take back towns that have fallen under the control of pro-russian rebels. so far it's not really clear how successful this defensive has been, but we're seeing the rhetoric growing stronger, both sides talking about war and we've seen the violence spill in to new parts of the country. there were fierce clashes in the southern eastern port city of odessa left mr. than 40 people dead. this is city thatch until recently had largely been calm. >> schieffer: you had a very scary moment on friday you were arrested by pro-russian

militants, you were blindfolded, one of your crew was beaten. do you know who these people were who took you? were they russian? >> well, bob, the men who took us appeared to be predominantly young men from local villages, really it's so difficult to tell. i think this is something that sometimes lost on people, just how fluid the lines are tweeny crane and russia in this part of the country. many russians move to ukraine, russians and ukrainians marry each other, they speak the same language. many older ukrainians have served in the soviet and russian army, this really isn't a black or white situation on the ground. particularly in this part of the country. >> schieffer: all right, clarissa ward. thank you. we're going to turn back now to our discussion of the impact of the sterling controversy in terms of race relations in america. joining us now npr michele norris. ta-nehisi coates who writes about race and culture for "the

atlantic" and welcome him to the broadcast, we're also joined by georgetown university's michael eric dyson. and bill rhoden the sports columnist for "new york times." let me start with you. i think as we were hearing from the mayor this morning, it looks like sterling may try to just stick this thing out. his wife said that she's willing to go along with the nba. you think he's going to fight this? >> from day one. there will be a lot of blood on the street. this guy doesn't get to be a billionaire without being a pushover. this is going to be a bloody fight. if you think that he's going to give his franchise easily, particularly right now the worst thing in the world for him clippers now have become -- though may well go to the nba finals. that will kill him more than any punishment there could be.

just lay back. i think that a lot of the owners after saying hip-hip-hurray have started to rethink this. what does this -- what implications does this happen for me. i think that we're going to have a long fight. which i think is good. >> schieffer: why do you think that? >> because we are having this conversation. my fear is that a lot of people want it to be over. the minute the clippers are eliminated, this conversation is going to be over. so funny that a sports team, once again, we were taking about incognito and bullying. right back some of some sports issue, very interesting dynamic, where you got a whole lot of young, african american men controlled controlled or paid by a lot of white rich billionaires which hits a button in this country. i wish they could play until next september. >> schieffer: i'd be interested, why do you all think

it took so long, apparently this guy has got quite a record. say mean -- >> i think, look, it's difficult to prove i am police sit racism or comments made in private that don't necessarily -- he settled a large lawsuit. but to really move the needle on race in that regard by holding somebody accountable means that usually has to flare up in the situation that has occurred now. because people say race is a card. people play the race card it's not a card it's a condition. more likely a continuum. i see relationship between what paul ryan says when he talks about inner-city people who are urban with all the code words being articulated and the kind of clive bundy expression to the donald sterling. only when there is a flash point do we galvanize our energy either pro or conwiebe again to talk about. donald sterling has never been held accountable. >> >> schieffer: can what struck

me this is on the 50th anniversary of the signing of the 1964 civil rights bill. >> i don't think there's any question whatsoever that we've come a long way. since that day, but is this some aberration or is this a symptom of something that runs deep in american society? >> it's aecium top. the anniversary of brown v. board. a lot of big anniversaries. i'm not surprised this happen in the arena of sports. because in many ways sports often pushes this conversation because of the sort of ideas of fairness attached. you are supposed to win clean and play fair. so i do think this is symptomatic and it's interesting because mr. sterling took us to an interesting place. he did not punish donald silver for what he did or said in public he punished him for what he believes. that makes us think about things because i actually collect race cards from people. i collect six-word thoughts on race i travel across the

country. and in private spaces if someone says, don't bring that person back home. okay, that's a little bit different than what donald sterling said but they're talking about their private beliefs and private spaces. please keep with your own kind. those kind of things. people, if you are really honest those are the kinds of things that often sometimes we know it happens to some degree people sometimes say in their private spaces about people who don't look like them or share their religion. people with don't share -- >> schieffer: what is your thought? >> i think michele is right. it has to be a symptom. i don't know how it can't ab symptom. after that we had hundred years of terrorism, jim crowee denial of people, right to vote. all other sorts of evils. over the past 50 or so years made halting progress, real

progress but halting. the expectation that all that have goes away is something i've never understood about the conversation we had. i don't know why anybody is necessarily surprised that an 80-year-old man thinks that it's shameful to have his girlfriend appear around black men. there's a long history of blackness as being a mark of shame. the idea that that will immediately go away because we pass some very significant laws 50 years ago have been fighting it ever since i think is a -- >> schieffer: ruth marcus, it's not just his feeling toward minorities but kind of mistreatment of women. i mean this whole idea of this woman, whatever -- >> he's sitting on -- >> schieffer: just play one little clip of what she told barbara walt terse the other day. >> can you tell me what you're relationship with donald sterling is? >> mr. sterling's right hand

arm, man. i'm mr. sterling's everything. i'm his confidante. his best friend. his silly rabbit. >> his what? >> his silly rabbit. >> schieffer: your reaction. >> speechless. >> there is the most fascinating, repelling sexual gender subplot going on. and this videotape is just evidence that pass of the story as with the other just gets creepier and creepier. she's his sill lie rabbit. >> schieffer: what is a silly rabbit. >> they have a weird symbiotic relationship that has managed to out last the incredible -- nobody deserves it more than donald sterling but what a betrayal to take these private audio tapes and somehow they get out in to public. she says she wasn't the agent of

it. but she did the tape. >> >> i think it's been alluded to but i don't want -- just like rappers what are mad at video vixen girls, nobody made you do it. we look at her these are the cards handed to her. having been a pastor, sometimes people exercise power strategically, sometimes through rumor. powerless people use what's at stake and what she has are word& collective, items of thought. belief, sentiment, packs, that may have cans queens. not his personal belief, his personal belief led him to deny latino and african american people housing. that's imperical proof of a privately held ex i tension belief. >> there are lots ever these tapes? >> a hundred or so. some point we're all reduced to relying on tmz as our source here that she has -- she was his

archivist. she suggested at one point was -- >> schieffer: he wants all this kept? >> her job -- which is important that implies consent. >> how convenient is that. can i be the glass half full white girl at the table, that may put me in odd position. what i was struck by in this conversation about race, i'd love to hear your thoughts on this, is even donald sterling is embarrassed about being a racist he was sincerely injured on points on the tape he says, you think i'm a racist. she says, of course not, honey, of course not, would you like some more juice. >> there for destructive because white innocence needs to protect it's against acknowledgment what it is doing street gone. now we coddle the racist as opposed to confront. >> i'm not arguing, i thought it was striking in 2014 everyone embarrassed. >> it was interesting because one of the long-term a physician

it may make people afraid to talk about race because if you are shown to be biased or bigoted. or walk through a mine kneeled, i don't want to talk about it. he was struggling with this. >> schieffer: i mean, really, a guy gets caught in the closet by somebody's husband, you know, they open the door. he's going to say, well, i was in here just doing an audit. you get caught doing something. >> one of the point about the shame. i'm going through a book, richard nixon talking about strom thurmond in '68 he says, strom is not a racist. living at the age of what is shameful is nothing particularly new when it comes to being white in this country. it wasn't about slavery. racism shameful right now. the shame is, that's where folks want to be on the other side.

but that has nothing to do with whether or not practicing or doing it. >> i spent most of my time in press boxes and all that i'm stunned. people say the same thing as sterling said by actions. i go to a lot of press boxes in 2014 where i am the only black guy in the press box. i want through newsrooms, sports departments where there are no black people at all. i tell these guys, the clippers, nba, nfl, look at the front office some day. go up to the executive director's offers, you will be stunned by the lack of black presence. a lot of people say the same thing about you through action, which is definition of racism. where sterling was apologetic. a lot of guys, owners, who are not saying anything but they are doing it. doing it through the absence and cultivating that absence. >> sometimes we do say it but

doesn't hit our ear the same way. he's gist not the right fit. >> appropriate. >> it's words that carry the same weight behind it. in fact even more in some ways. >> the nfl and nba, i was quoted a former gm decline of black general managerrers. we just appointed a deputy black commissioner. the nba is integrated and predominantly black since 1988 you can argue that there should be probably like 20 black general managerrers. there should be 20 black coaches. something active glass controlling that keeps these numbers -- >> schieffer: let me take a break. lot more to talk about we got to make a little money here.

♪ ♪ [ girl ] my mom, she makes underwater fans that are powered by the moon. ♪ [ birds squawking ] my mom makes airplane engines that can talk. [ birds squawking ] ♪ my mom makes hospitals you can hold in your hand. ♪

my mom can print amazing things right from her computer. [ whirring ] [ train whistle blows ] my mom makes trains that are friends with trees. [ train whistle blows ] ♪ my mom works at ge. ♪ bob we're back with our panel and i don't have to ask questions. michael eric dyson. >> i was soy proud of the players they were willing to stand up because players are fine for speaking inpresently. there's kind of implicit suppression of their free speech but i was glad they were able to galvanize resources to be able to protest and boycott. i want to issue a challenge to the players as well. not only donald sterling or nba how do you when you choose who you bring in to your circle, who

are your agents? who are your financial representatives. if you are collecting a group of well qualified white people, no disrespect to well qualified white people, but why don't you diversify your own circle. why don't not believe the myth that you got to get a white boy in order to get ahead in here. do what lebron james did. he allowed his young man to be trained by the dominant society's system. he amy loud his young person to go to a major representative and then he hired that person two years later after he had been trained. that's the kind of record of let me diversify in my own practice before i also talk about the necessities for the larger nba. >> schieffer: ta-nehisi coates, why do you hope this goes. >> i hope this doesn't to go fire to fire to fire. bill made great point just few months ago talking about incog knee tee. we were talking before that, it was reilly cooper.

caught on tape just like donald sterling. we go from fire that's horrible, you get this kind of apology, then you get another incident then we have conversations then at some point here we have to do something deeper. stop thinking about this in terms of emergency realize we're dealing with something deeper. >> i think that what this -- they -- i've written it, you've ryan it, this helps the conversation on race. but i think the deeper conversation has to be among us. the vast -- you, you, you, me. we have to have a conversation about what it means to be african american in 2014. i've been in situations where this has got to stop.

we have to have the equivalence. where we get down, roll up our sleeves knock this thing out it's too vast. it's funny that this incident once again -- what these players do, they have convenience of being in a locker room where all these guys with all these different backgrounds and economic things get. get together, they say our goal is we're going to knock this out. they did it in this incident, we're going to boycott. we used to be in the locker room and that one locker room but thanks to the invention of integration we are so far that it's been -- i don't know if we've had that conversation. >> does make an important point about the power of the players here and the power of their collective action which street why i'm so interested, not just in where the broader conversation takes us what is exactly going to happen to donald sterling and his attempt, which i think is kind of pathetic sad attempt hold on to his team. it strikes me that not only the nba inners but also the nba

players and also honestly the fans have a lot of control of what happens here. it doesn't strike me that it's sustainable for him to hold on to it. >> here is the point. i want to hold those players accountable let's be real. they are discouraged from speaking up or being radical black intellectuals or scholars sore civil rights leaders. now brand management has precluded the solidarity of what you speak. look at reilly cooper, he was rewarded with a four-year multi-million dollar contract while deshawn jackson much more talent receiver was sent packing, thank you, to the washington, d.c. team, thank you for. that the reality is because of alleged ties to gangs, the racialization of even the perception of reputation goes on a certain level. not just what i think -- >> the turning the shirts inside out because it was so eloquent. >> also a risk for them. >> a beautiful mitt foreabout

going in a locker room having one goal, the game of winning. the idea of winning. in the game of life it might be a good idea if use that same metaphor because -- >> what it moons to us. >> for the larger inside needs to be a part of it. take it outside of basketball talking a bout access to housing, education, meaningful employment. where all that have only has -- >> you make two great points. number one, can't take players off the hook because reason why -- trust me, the reason why adam silver made that, because you had jordan being angry, lebron, you president of the united states, players saying not only -- you know what, this house is burning down i got to call the fire department. now, what happens now, the players have -- and the consumers, by the way,

consumers. wait a minute, if you are going to continue to hang on to this team we're going to put so much pressure, not just on you but on the entire league. right now everybody wants to watch the playoffs. players want to play. leave us alone, turn the shirts inside out, isn't that enough. what we're saying, no, that's not enough. >> there's a structure in place that allows that, that permits that, encourages that. they don't want players to become radicalized or politicized because it won't stop the turning of the shirt inside out. then you ask the with question, what is getting the benefit. you see this in union negotiations with the collective bargaining agreement. but more broadly can we ask players to not simply be -- when it's 'in and out trayvon, another issue, can you do this same kind of response when it's not about athletics. then we ask you to hank erin, james brown, muhammad alley. >> what they don't want they don't want something that's bad for business.

>> bottom line. >> schieffer: it's bad for the whole deal. i think in the end things don't always happen for the right reason. but they do happen. >> it's a powerful, important -- wouldn't be about -- sacrifices of certain -- who made it possible for it to be lucrative. ali gave up so much money now athletes can make the money it would be ashame now that you made the money you don't have the conscience that the man who inspired the lucrative arc makes to occur. >> you're talking in a way that actually seems to believe or argue, i'm probably misunderstanding, that players should be monolithic in their approaches. >> conscientious. i'm saying, they are made monolithic, when dress code is imposed they are made monolithic. the society that shoots young black people. i'm saying that what we're trying do shatter the monolith of racial stereotype suggest

that these are conscientious, highly war particular could you husband comes from a situation and generation that sacrifices for them. i'm asking them to be responsible. not monolithic. >> the problem is, i wrote a book, the reason they did that so many young people -- they have no idea of everything you talk about. if you had no idea of the battle of the wars -- >> knowing this. >> >> schieffer: i'm going to tell you something. i don't think this is just among black people. somebody asked month the other day who walter cronkite was. memories are support. >> on that -- >> schieffer: we're all getting older. >> there's an opportunity here for the nba to actually educate people. because the nba itself, lot of people, we all know the name of the man who integrated baseball. lot of people listening to this program do do not know the name

of the man who integrated the nba. he wasn't the first to be drafted. wasn't actually the first to sign because of schedule he was -- >> schieffer: we have to -- i'm sorry, the clock -- time has run out. the game is over. [ all talking at once ] >> schieffer: no over time. we'll be back. female narrator: for over 60,000 california foster children

female narrator: for over 60,000 california a pair of shoes is a small but important gift. my shoes have a hole in them. i can barely fit in these anymore. i hope no one would notice. they hurt my feet. i never had new shoes before. to help, sleep train is collecting new shoes of all sizes. bring your gift to any sleep train, and they'll be given to a local foster child in need. not everyone can be a foster parent... but anyone can help a foster child. safeway knows you don't want to fly all over town to find the best deals. that's why they have lots of ways to save. real big club card deals, the safeway app and gas rewards. for mother's day weekend two pounds of driscoll's strawberries are just $3.99 moms love tulips.

they're just $5.99 a bunch. and brew up starbucks for only $6.99. there's more savings to love... at safeway. ingredients for life. >> schieffer: that's it for today. we hope you'll join us next week when we'll be talking to former secretary of defense robert gates. thanks for watching "face the nation."

captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

live from the cbs bay area studios. this is kpix5 news. tragedy at a northern california air show. a plane plummets to the ground as onlookers watch in horror: good evening. the crash happened this afternoon during the thunder over air show. elisa harrington joins us live from there now. what did you learn about the crash? >> reporter: witnesses tell me the plane was attempting a stunt and was upside down when it crashed. a photographer from our sacramento station happened to be at the show and captured this exclusive video. an announcer tells the crowd to stay in their seats as