>> schieffer: april bob schieffer. breaking news overnight as both sides step up their attack in the mid east. israeli troops move in to gaza on the ground. take on rocket facility in what may be the opening stages of a wider war. it is day six of the mid east conflict and as the rocket attacks intensify and casualties mount in gaza, neither side seem interested in a crease fire. we'll talk with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu and hear from the top palestinian delegate to the united states. then he'll turn to the immigration crisis as tens of thousands of children pour across our southern border we'll talk with texas governor rick perry and house democrat luis

gutierrez. 60 years of news because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning again, to get that news on the overnight developments we go first to holly williams in gaza city. >> good morning, bob. israeli command owes class with palestinian militants early this morning, first gunfight since this escalation began and comes as israel considers whether to mount a ground invasion. israeli military says four of the soldiers were wounded as they attacked. in what may be the first ground incursion of this conflict. the militants have launched hundreds of rockets in to he israel over the last week, caused some damage and injuries, so far no israelis have been killed. that is in large part to the defense system which shoots those rockets down. pal stillians have no such protection and one airstrike on

the home much gaza's police chief killed 18 people. israeli military says used by militants but pal tinnian officials say 50 people have lost their lives. israeli military dropped leaflets in the air in northern gaza warning residents toe evacuate for their own safety and today hundreds of families have fled their homes and taken refuge in school buildings here in gaza city. israeli military meanwhile has called up more than 30,000 reservists and have massed troops on the border adding to fears of a ground invasion. and despite calls for a cease fire from the security council both sides have resisted international pressure to end the violence. bob. >> schieffer: holly williams thank you so much. be careful. we begin this morning with israeli prime minister benjamin

netanyahu, prime minister, thank you for joining us, i understand as we begin this interview tel aviv is again under an alert that the sirens have just gone off. >> well the sirens are off because hamas has fired rockets on israeli's major cities, firing rockets at all our cities. i want your audience to imagine what it would be like if all the cities of the united states, not just new york and washington. i'm talking about all the cities of the united states from the east coast to colorado. 80% of the population would be in bomb shelters, with a minute to minute and half red alert warning to get in to those shelters that's what we're experiencing right now as we speak. this is unconscionable terrorist attack on civilian populations and of course we have to act to defend ourselves. >> schieffer: how many rockets have been fired so far,

prime minister? >> right now over 4040 rockets. maybe number has increased to closer to 500. that is many more rockets were fired those are the ones that made it in to the space above our population centers, we're talking perhaps a larger number. two things about this, one is the fact that this is deliberate hamas terrorist weapon, with the exception of chemical weapons or nuclear weapons the ultimate terror weapon. any country would act to defend itself against this. we're doing exactly what any country would do, you would do if you were targeted from across the border. you would try to pinpoint the rocketeers that's what we're doing. now we come to the other problem. the hamas islamic, other terrorist groups like islamic

jihad are from gaza when rockets are embedded in homes, hospitals, mosques, we're trying to operate to target and surgically, but the difference between us is that we're using missile defense to protect our civilians and they're using their civilians to protect their missilesful naturally they're responsible for all the civilian deaths that occur accidentally. we're sorry for any accidental civilian death but it's the hamas is that bears complete responsibility. >> schieffer: prime minister, the u.n. security council called for a cease fire yesterday by both sides i take that it is not going to happen for awhile as far as you're concerned? >> our goal is to achieve sustainable quiet and security for our people. we're doing that by degrading hamas and other terror capabilities. i'm no not going to say how and when that goal will be achieved.

whether by diplomatic and military means but that goal has to be seen, we need to have quiet restored to our people for sustainable period of time not just for five minutes. >> schieffer: last night israeli forces on the ground went in to gaza to take out a rocket launching facility there. is this a sign that this war is about to get wider, are you going to go in in force in to gaza with ground forces? >> we use whatever means are necessary to defend our people. as with the united states or any other government. faced with such a predicament. >> schieffer: how long do you think this is going to go on? i understand what you're saying here but how will you know you've done? >> i think the issue is achieving the mission. we'll have to see how that is achieved. i was asked by someone, is this the beginning of the end? i said, i don't know if it's the

end of the beginning or the beginning of the end. we just received now a quiet alert. as we were giving this -- can you hear this through the -- can you hear this? what you are hearing right now is the -- that is the calm alert. in other words, when we began this interview we were under bomb alert. as the minutes passed now we are being told that people can go out in to the open area. this is the kind of reality we're living in, bob. we'll do whatever is necessary to put an end to this. >> schieffer: do you think that this can never be solved militarily, prime minister? is there going to have to be some kind of negotiated settlement here, some sort of diplomatic settlement? i'm not sure what that is. but where does this go from here? >> when you have something like hamas, they don't care about political settlement. they want to destroy the state of israel.

not talking about building a plane state they want to establish some kind of their version of the -- they have to murder jews wherever they find them. they are not in to political settlement doesn't mean that we cannot have the necessary action coupled with diplomatic backing to achieve the protection of the israeli citizens from these rockets that threaten. but again, i'm not going to get in to the specifics. sometimes you just have to fight people just want to murder you. >> schieffer: prime minister, do you think that the whole idea of a two-state solution is just dead? has that gone by? >> two separate issues whether we can achieve negotiated settlement with principle who are willing to co-exist. is one question. but that doesn't fly in the face of the other need, in fact i

think it is complemented by the other need you got to fight back and roll back the forces who are seeking to extinguish the jewish state completely. we need to defeat those people, roll them back or peace is not going to be possible. as far as hamas, couldn't care less if they come with a two-state solution, three-state solution or four-state solution they want no state solution. no jewish state. there for if you want to have peace you have to fight these people. you have to roll them back. otherwise there's no prospect for peace. >> schieffer: let me talk to you a little bit about negotiations going on now with iran over these sanctions and so forth. the iranian representative to those talks going on said on nbc this morning that there really was no reason for iran to have a nuclear weapon. what is your response to that? >> i think it's comical.

iran has invested untold fortune, certainly over 100 billion dollars in building icbms which are only used for nuclear weapon. underground nuclear facilities for nuclear weapons and enrichment, uranian enrichment and centrifuge, is that are only used for nuclear weapons in plutonium that is only for nuclear weapons. if they wanted nuclear energy wouldn't need any of that. 17 nations have civilian nuclear energy don't have single senator final. that is straight forward lie. second point i think that capability to make these weapons is what is at issue that is what is being negotiated. i think the crucial thing is not to trust iran, nobody would, not to inspect iran, that is secondary and largely immaterial. the question is to deny iran the

capability to make nuclear weapons that they seek. that means taking the enriched nuclear material and to make a bomb to take it out of iran, just as it was done, the chemical and means to make chemical weapons out of syria. that is the deal that should be done. any ordeal would be a bad deal and much better to have no deal than a bad deal. >> schieffer: prime minister, thank you so much. we'll let you get back to work now and keep your head down. >> thank you. >> schieffer: we'll have lot more on all of this later in the broadcast when we talk to the palestinian representative to the united states and israeli am bass door to the u.s. we want to turn now to the other major story we're covering today, that of the tens of thousands of central american children crossing the border illegally in to the united states. texas governor pick rick perry joins us from austin. thank you for coming. you have called a federal

response to this crisis. do you mean the president's inept or is congress inept, too? >> i think there is plenty of blame to spread around from this perspective. when you're the president of the united states, you are at the tip of the spear, so toe speak, whether it's a v.a. that has had scandals or the i.r.s. you're ultimately going to be responsible. the border situation and i go back to multiple years in the past of which we have drawn attention to this administration and the problems on the border. we've asked for 1,000 national guard troops for over four years in this administration. as a matter of fact in may of 25012, bob, i gave the president a heads up on what was happening with these unaccompanied children, these alien children who were coming in on the tops of trains. we laid out exactly what we felt was going to happen if we didn't address that. now we're seeing that become reality with literally tens of

thousands of these young children making this long and very dangerous trip being separated from their parents and it could have been stopped years ago had the administration listened, had the administration been focused on the border with texas. i just don't think there is the interest -- i've got to take that as an "i'm not interested" when we asked the president to come this past week he made a decision not to come. just time after time you see a response from this administration that says, you know what, we're really not that interested in the southern border of the united states. >> schieffer: let me ask you, what do you do with these children, governor, many were escaping drug cartels, human trafficking, once they get here aren't we going to have to find some way to help them? what can be done about this? >> it is a problem of monumental

humanitarian impact. and you have to go back to the source of what is going on here, i think. this is like a triage, if you will. if you have a patient that is bleeding profusely, the first thing you have to do is stop the bleeding, that's the reason we have been so adamant about securing the border. very quickly that message will be sent to these central american countries that you cannot send your children up here. you cannot catch a train or a bus or be coyoted up here if you will, to walk across the border and freely going to be able to stay in the united states. that was the message for years and months. from this administration, that's what they saw and that was the message that went back. >> schieffer: let me ask you about something else, you really ripped your fellow republican, rand paul, in an op ed in saturday's "washington post." you said, your words "obama's

policies certainly led us to this dangerous point in iraq and syria, bull paul's brand of isolationism would compound the threat of terrorism even further. well, he responded today, he said "unlike governor perry, i am opposed to sending american troops back in to iraq, i support continuing our assistance to the government of iraq, i support using advanced technology to prevent isis from becoming a threat. i also want to stop sending u.s. and arms to islamic rebels in syria who are allied with isis, something governor perry doesn't even address. i asked governor perry how many americans should spend their sons and daughters to die for a foreign country, a nation the iraqis won't defend for themselves." he really takes exception to your criticism, what is your response to what he said? >> well, i agree with him that it is failed policies of this

administration that we find ourselves in this really bad position that we're in today. not unlike the failed policies on the border with mexico and texas that is causing this issue with all these unaccompanied alien children that we're seeing flooding in to the border. but back to that part of the world, we have allies there. in the form of israel and jordan that expect us to stand with them to help them, they are very nervous because they have seen this president talk about red lines, that he was going to draw in the ground. and then those red lines mean nothing. i disagree with senator paul's representation of what america should be doing, when you read his op ed in the "wall street journal" he talked about basically what i consider to be isolationist policies and america, no longer come back on

to the continental united states and draw a red line around the shore of america and think that we're somehow another not going to be impacted. we must engage and tactically, thoughtfully, using the assets that we have against isis to keep these individuals from being able to create an islamic state in that part of the world that will put jordan and put israel's literal future in jeopardy. we need to send clear messages and powerful messages. the idea that i'm for opening up the gates and sending multiple numbers of american troops back in to harm's way, is a bit of a stretch. as a veteran, as an individual who has deployed hundreds and thousands of u.s. national guard, texas national guard troops to iraq and afghanistan over the course of the last decade, i understand as well as

anyone the concept of putting our young people in harm's way. we need a strategy that is sound, we need a strategy that when we say we're going to do something, we do it. and our allies again can trust us and our enemies fear us. >> schieffer: i'm sorry we have to send it there. thank you so much. >> you're welcome, thank you, bob. >> schieffer: we'll be back in one minute to hear from top democrat on immigration crisis. kid: hey dad, who was that man? dad: he's our broker. he helps looks after all our money. kid: do you pay him? dad: of course. kid: how much? dad: i don't know exactly. kid: what if you're not happy? does he have to pay you back? dad: nope. kid: why not? dad: it doesn't work that way. kid: why not? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab

>> schieffer: war back now with congressman luis gutierrez. whose district is in chicago, o'hare airport, midway airport, northwest -- >> northwest-southwest side. >> schieffer: you heard rick perry some strong words about the president. owe said basically he is just not interested in solving this problem on the border. >> well, governor perry is just

wrong on that issue. let's first -- kept repeating the border the border, wants more national guardsmen. the children wouldn't come. the children come, bob, fleeing violence and torture, murder and rape. so they're going to continue to come as long as those conditions exist and we don't fix our broken immigration system. let's just put in context what the governor said. at the height of george bush's presidency in 2002 -- during george bush's presidency, 1,600,000 crossing the border to mexico from. today it's under 40 0,000. george bush, average of about 200,000 people deported a year, average over his eight years. six years of president barack obama 400,000. over two million deported. those at the border in terms of deportation there has been enforcement. here is the problem, we spend

$18 billion a year on making sure that the federal government has immigration enforcement. that is more than dea, atf action and fbi all over enforcement combined. we still have a problem. you can keep throwing money and talk about enforcement, enforcement, but you got to put money in to your judicial system and comprehensive program that deals with the issue. one last point, these aren't children. i'm happy he didn't demonize the children but there is a deem any sakes that goes on. all i say to the governor, i wish you understood and accepted the law of the land, governor. the law of the land in 2008 we adopted in the congress of the united states anti-trafficking law. wait, it wasn't only 2008 that we said protect the children, we said that in 2002 when we created department of homeland

security. we must treat children who arrive at our shores differently. >> schieffer: let me ask you about this because i hear this from democrats as well as republicans and prominent democrats, if the president was going to texas, he should have gone down to the border and should have taken a firsthand look. do you think he would have been better off? >> absolutely. i think the president should have gone down this there, in 2008, bob, that he hasn't thought was bringing disease to this country. went on the house floor this week to compare the invasion of children to our incursion to mexico toiseach out pancho via. they put it in these terms. came from iowa always says they're criminals. he can never say immigrant and criminal without -- they voted for the 2002 and 2008 law that

say protect -- when there were calmer times, level headed people, we pit the children's interests first. remember bipartisanship. this is not a democratic -- >> schieffer: let me ask you -- let's start with this. don't you have to secure the border, though? and take care of these children that are already here. how do you do that? >> the border is secure, the fact is, the children are handling themselves over to the border patrol agent and under our laws they must be treated. all i have come here to say is two things. america exceptionalism. i believe in it. i say we are the strongest, wealthiest, most powerful nation in the world and children are coming to tower borders we should protect them. i'll say this. follow the law. and the law said that we must put the children's interest first. which is what president barack obama is doing. i find governor perry

interesting in that republicans keep saying, we can't fix the immigration issue because we don't trust the president to enforce the law. when the president actually follows the law in 2002 and 2008 the very law that republicans were signed by president bush they say he should do something different. >> schieffer: all right. congressman, we have to stop there. thank you so much for joining us. we'll be back.

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>> schieffer: we'll be right back with a lot more "face the nation" including our panel ever analysts. stay with us.

>> schieffer: well turn to the palestinian ambassador to the united states. maen rashid areikat. he is the chief representative of the palestinians here. mr. ambassador, thank you so much. you heard what prime minister netanyahu said this morning. he said, as long as they keep firing rockets war going to retaliate and no country could expect us to do less. >> no country would expect anybody to do that. prime minister netanyahu forgets that gaza is still under military occupation. he forget the fact that the palestinian people are still under his military occupation. and there for he cannot compare the situation to any situation around the world. the root cause of that we have witnessed over the last 48 years since israel accu paid the west

bank and gaza is due to the continued israeli military occupation. >> schieffer: well, having said that. i understand what you're saying here. the fact is, rockets were coming out of the gaza. and what was it he said, 400, 500 of them coming out of there. they have to take action to protect their people when that kind of assault is going on. >> well, i think our objective right now is to turn to the 2012 understanding between hamas and israel i have to also remember so far israel have carried out 1300 airstrikes against gaza strip. more than 1,000 tons of explosive on the most densely populated area on the face of earth. 170 palestinians have been killed so far. 100 wounded. including destruction of hundreds of homes, hospitals, mosques, schools were targeted. cannot target -- even if you

suspect militant is there. that's a war crime. >> schieffer: ambassador, there were weapons being hidden in mosques, these things just go on. they are putting these weapons and things in civilian homes and israelis say we're calling them on the phone saying, get out of there. >> they have done that in the beginning now according to civilian in gaza we spoke to they no longer warn people yesterday in attack on building to take out supposedly, allegedly one militant. they killed 18 people in the process. what rule, what international rule allows country to target civilian population in order to take out -- in densely populated. may be instances rockets fired but this justify that you kill

170 people in less than a week? i don't think so. >> schieffer: i was recently in israel, i went down to the border with gaza, the palestinians there kept telling me that the reason that hamas wanted to form this new alliance with your organization they said, hamas is very weak. and that's the reason for this alliance. well it looks like hamas is rubbing the show. looks like they're driving the boat not your organization. >> i think that the purpose of that reconciliation effort was to bring hamas in to -- when we were divided israel kept saying, who should we talk to. the ones in gaza? now that we're trying to unite our ranks so that whenever there are political negotiations with israel we can reach an agreement with israel once and for all to end the conflict,i o israel says we cannot talk to united

palestinian front, we're confused here. i think hamas has been practical in its political positions in recent years. i don't think hamas is seeking confrontation with israel. you have to keep in mind that the confrontation did not start with -- ever since negotiations between united states and israel started in july until june of 2014, 66 palestinians were killed by israeli army. and that tells you that there is a problem there bob let me ask you this, do you think that president abbas the president of the palestinian authority does he still have any influence at all over hamas? >> i think he is exerting his best. i think he is talking to hamas political leaders, different parties in the region, talking to the united states, with europe, other countries.

main objective to stop the bleeding, the palestinian and civilian are paying the price for the airstrikes. >> schieffer: what would you like to see happen right now? >> like to see immediate cease fire and move in to deal with the root cause of the issue with which is ending the israeli military invasion. >> schieffer: thank you for your side. we'll be back talk with the u.s., ambassador of isreal to the united states in just a minute. stay with us.

>> schieffer: we're back now with israeli ambassador to the united states, thank you for coming. this technology is just amazing i want to ask you about what we just heard from the palestinian. i think what came home toe lot

of americans this morning while i was interviewing the prime minister, the air raid sirens went off over tel aviv then before the interview was over we heard the people in the background telling people they could come out from the shelters. actually on your iphone get a report whenever those sirens go off? in fact the siren goes off on your phone, what was that rocket, because your phone tells you where that rocket came from. >> when you were interviewing a rocket was fired from gaza. it was intercepted over tel aviv. it's not just israel ambassador can get it, anyone can get it they can download an app red alert israel. what happens is every time a siren goes off when incoming rock set coming in you'll get it on your phone know exactly what city is being targeted and when it's being targeted. you saw realtime example when you were interviewing the prime member city.

>> schieffer: one of your people brought in with you some videotape, again that came off the phone this was when israelis were going to attack the target in gaza. i want to play this, then we'll talk about it. >> [ not audible ] >> schieffer: there you have it. this was the pilot being told there were children there or something. >> exactly. it happens all the time. when our pilots are targeting a particular site try to make sure that it's clear of civilians, many, many military operations that are called off because we see that there are civilians are going to come in to harm's way. that's a difference between us and hamas. hamas is deliberately targeting our civilians. we have iron dome that is protecting our civilians as prime minister said they are using our civilians as human

shields, they place them next to schools, mosque, hospital makes it difficult to fight this war. we'll do it and continue to uphold the highest standards. >> schieffer: you heard the palestinian representative saying, giving a very different take on that. >> he has to brush up on the rules of war because apparently he doesn't know them. you take a home or mosque or take any such site and you turn it in to a site where there is terrorist activities it actually becomes a legitimate target that's what hamas has done. they have taken hospitals, schools, mosques, homes, they have turned them in to legitimate targets. we haven't targeted any of them. we're trying to surgically get at the missile battery. i think we do a good job. we've had -- [ siren ] a rocket now is heading as we speak to the city -- the village that my mother was born in.

right now heading towards there as we speak. despite that the fact that we have three quarters of our population right now who have to go in to bomb shelters, over 200 million americans, israel is with unbelievable restraint, imagine what united states government and united states military would do if 200 million americans were in bomb shelters you were facing attacks from continuous territory of a terror organizations. we can be very proud of our israel is fighting this war against terrorism. >> schieffer: how long does this go on, ambassador? where does this end? >> it ends when we were able to achieve our military objective to restore sustained period of quiet for the people of israel. they deserve that just as any nation deserves it. hopefully fight terrorist, ultimately have to go in to some sort of political process to advance sustainable piece. but you have to understand one thing, bob. this has nothing to do with the occupation, the palestinian

ambassador sat in this chair said, the root cause of the problem is the occupation. but those talking points are nine years old. israel left gaza. we withdraw all our settlements from gaza. our military forces from gaza since that time we've had 9,000 rockets. we have to defend ourselves. >> schieffer: i want to thank you for coming by this morning let's hope that siren doesn't go off too many more times before some solution can be found. thank you. >> thank you. >> schieffer: we'll be back with our panel of analysts in a minute.

bob book now for analysis. former democratic congressman jane harman, danielle pletka vice president of the foreign and defense policy studies at the american enterprise institute also nia-malika henderson of the "washington post" and wall street young r

journal gerald seib. i'm interviewing the prime minister of israel, his alert goes off in tel aviv. then israeli ambassador to the united states comes in, his siren goes off on his phone, technology is just amazing, a rocket being fired at the very village where his mother is. it's just this whole thing. jane, what is going to happen? >> i don't know, bob. i think it's a tragedy all around. just imagine what would be happening to israel if she didn't have the iron dome system and pieces of that were cost shared and actually financed developed by u.s. technology and supported by congress on bipartisan basis when that happened. and so 95% of these rockets are ineffective against israel. i think the next steps -- my sense ever benjamin netanyahu.

i think underestimated how prudent he's being. they may have to go in with tanks, they went win one tank as you said, bob. underneath these homes are the rocket launchers, we heard that people are being asked by some of the hamas leadership to stay in their homes so they become human shields. it's a catastrophe for the gaza and palestinian people also for israeli people. >> schieffer: what is ha has trying to do? >> we need to understand hamas is the government in gaza, is really not interested in the well being, as jane said of the palestinian people. they're using their people as human shields. i would say they have partly political agenda they have been doing badly politically. had to join unity government with the plo and it's been very hard for them. they haven't delivered anything on the ground for the palestinian people. whether it's basic standard of living, education, prosperity. they have delivered nothing. what are they doing? they're basically using attacks

on israel to reup their popularity in the region and with extremists and i think this is -- not been talked about enough. they're doing the bidding of the country of iran. let's not forget that hamas is under written financed, armed and supported in every way without iran, hamas would not be able to do any of this. >> schieffer: what is prime minister netanyahu's strategy as you understand? >> i think one of the interesting things about this is that i'm minister netanyahu is being outflanked he's under pressure to go further, farther, faster than what he's doing. not the position americans are accustomed to seeing. i was struck by what he said his goal to sustain the quiet. if you think about it that remarkably modest goal. nobody is talking about peace or a solution, sustain able quiet.

i think that is the best he can hope for right now. >> it's quite departure from where we were many months ago when john kerry talked about a month-long negotiation and it looks like i think we have to figure out how abbas comes out of all of this. he had been moderating voice. but as you said looks like he is outflanked by hamas you have the president obviously, president obama calling for cease fire here and netanyahu essentially saying most we can hope for is quiet. >> schieffer: does this have anything to do with the fact that the peace talks between the two sides have broke down? >> i don't think it does. i think that is what is happening. i do think problem because one of the things that happens in this situation is there is no dialogue underway. there's no process. even of faltering palestinian-israeli peace process allows channel for conversation that broke down

several weeks ago. i think it takes away one of the shock absorbers that might be useful at a time. it's not there. no conversation underway no. place to have that conversation. >> schieffer: anything the united states -- go ahead. >> i think that a big part of the problem here was that, i hate to say it but the vanity of john kerry in pushing forward a peace process without having done the work necessary. let's not even talk about israelis, it made them look so bad, undermined his credibility with the palestinian people, made him look weak and incompetent. but still for the united states if you want the u.s. to come in and help broker a peace between ha has and israelis, guess what, he has much less leverage because we shot ourselves in the foot. >> i couldn't disagree more there. kerry had 30 years experience in the united states senate, drank

beer with netanyahu 25 years ago, a process that, yes, idealistic, i think it was the right thing to do. and abbas among others were at the u.n. general assembly last september being very positive about it. it's a tragedy that it collapsed , i don't think it failed but i think it was admirable. >> it's hard to -- they didn't want against one side against other. everybody knows how it come out just don't know how to get there. i actually -- i said once, john kerry should be nominated for st. hood which is tricky because he's partly jewish. >> i think john kerry who is mainly out for himself. >> okay. >> debate we've been having about this for many years.

i think obama as he's going in to the mid terms, look at the way americans sees foreign policy very low mark, 60% disagree with the way he's approached foreign policy. i think that is also -- in the background here. >> if i could just add we don't have a good narrative about what we're trying to achieve. the other side perceives it as don't do stupid stuff plus drones. that's not persuading anybody. that is urgent business. i really think obama has to address that. >> schieffer: you know, i was struck with you something to switch to the other little problem that's going on right now, when rick perry said the president just doesn't appear interested. and you know, i hear democrats as well as republicans criticizing him for not going down to the border, but is this a broader problem for the president? >> it's a broader perception problem. i don't think it's necessarily the reality of the situation but there is a kind of sense of the

president a step removed and analyzes things in a clinical way from afar, but i'm not sure that's entirely fair. in this case i think his view of the visit to the border was i don't need a foe foe op i think he would have been better off off to have that photo op. >> i don't think it would have been a photo op i think the president of the united states showing up where we have humanitarian catastrophe is important. he has been homeland secretary down there five times, there are some good suggestions. but this is a failure of several levels. one is it's a failure of guatemala and mexico to improve the lives of their people and stop these coyote transfers across mexico. two, is the failure of immigration reform. we do need to have it in this country including amending this, in my view, i disagree with luis gutierrez, but probably need toe amend this very well intended anti-trafficking law to expedite

the handling of these kids. >> the problem for president is that you made that crack, it was a crack about photo op he engaged in other remarkably shallow and silly photo aps, it's to deal with the challenge. but i think that part of this humanitarian crisis speaks to something that is a longer term criticism of the administration and of the president this isn't a crisis that just happened. this has been building for some years. we can all accuse rick perry of politicking but he did write to the president in 2012. he did talk specifically about this. and i agree when he says we shouldn't say anything about the children they are as much victims here as anyone else. but at the same time we need to understand that the president's responsibility is to the american states and american people he needs to address this. up front and urgently. >> schieffer: what do you

think -- do you think he will, nia-malika? >> i think the white house, their main concern sending the message central american parents and families to not send their kids to the border. i think there were some concern that the president on the border might muddy that message. eventually he may have to go down there i think probably hear more from democrats pressing him to do that. we have big week ahead of us with this.7 billion package, republicans balking at that sum. also saying that they don't think that sum of money will deter folks from actually coming to this country. i think big debate. >> some good news, i've heard numbers are going down slightly. just maybe the message is being received. should be a bipartisan message these kids are not partisan. they shouldn't be pawned. >> schieffer: we'll end it right there. thank you all very much. i'll be right back with some personal thoughts about selfies. stay with us.

>> schieffer: as a father and grandfather i am familiar with the phrase everybody does it, everything said that, i have to say this, this is dangerous. i'm not talking the usual teching while driving, talking with your mouthful for evils of super large sugary drinks. i am talking about this.

selfies. i know all the cool people do it. we saw that at the oscars. of course it turned out they had a deal with a sponsor. red sox slugger david ortiz couldn't help himself when he got to the white house. had to have a selfie. turned out he had a sponsor, too. and now this, spectators at the tour de france were so overcome by the selfie urge, some of them got themselves run over. i'm just going to say it. if you're going to a bike race or a car race or the running of the the bulls, take a deep breath and just say no. truth is after all static the tabloids gave president obama, if you find yourself seated next to a glamorous world leader, you might want to think twice about a selfie moment. so to be on the safe side, satisfy the selfie urge only in the privacy of your own home or

studio. excuse me. that's it for us today. thanks for watching "face the nation." see you next week. captioning sponsored by cbs captioned by media access group at wgbh access.wgbh.org

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