i'm bob schieffer and today on "face the nation" the president makes the case for war. >> part of our solution is going to be military. >> we will preview steve croft's 60 minutes interview with the president and hear his plan to turn back the new terrorist threat. and hear from virginia's democratic senator tim cane who says congress has given too much authority to the president and the latest on the nation and what it entails from anthony, retired general carter ham former pentagon official michele flournoy and former deputy director of the c.i.a. mike morell. plus an all-star panel for analysis. 60 years of news because this is face the captioning sponsored by cbs

and good morning again. in the interview with steve croft of 60 minutes, president obama revealed new details on how the terror group isis used the chaos and confusion of the syrian civil war to ebuild own force and why he concluded that the new u.s. strategy had to include a military component. here is part of the interview. >> how did they end up where they are in control of so much territory? was that a complete surprise to you? >> well, i think our head of the intelligence community acknowledged that they underestimated what had been taking place in syria. essentially what happened with isil is that you had al-qaeda if a lock. which was a vicious group but our marines were able to quash with the help of sunni tribes. they went back underground. but over the past couple of years, during the chaos of the

syrian civil war where essentially you have huge swaths of the country that are ungoverned they were able to reconstitute themselves and attract foreign fighters who believed in their jihaddist nonsense and traveled everywhere from europe to the united states to australia to other parts of the muslim world converge on sir yeah. so this became ground zero for jihaddists around the world and they have been savvy in terms of social media. in some cases you have old remnants of saddam hussein's military that had been expunged from the iraqi military which gave them some traditional military capacity and not just terrorist capacity. and this is one of the challenges that we are going to have generally is where you've got states that are failing or in the midst of civil war these organizations thrive.

that is why it's so important for us to recognize part of our solution here is going to be military. we have to push them back. and shrink their space and go after their command and control and their capacity and weapons and their fueling and cutoff their financing and work to eliminate the flow of foreign fighters. but we also have to come up with political solutions in iraq and syria in particular but in the middle east generally, that arrive an accommodation between sunni and shi'a populations that right now are the biggest cause of conflict not just in the middle east but in the world. >> you mentioned james clap as the director of national intelligence. he did not just say that we underestimated isil. he said we overestimated the ability and the will of our allies, the iraqi army to fight.

>> that is true. that is absolutely true. >> schieffer: and more of steve croft's interview with the president can be seen on tonight's 60 minutes after football. an international coalition led by the united states continued attacks in iraq and syria this weekend. holly williams and her team made their way to northern iraq. holly? >> good morning, bob more than 150,000 people have fled isis over the last week-and-a-half. after the islamic militants tightened their siege of the town in northern syria. those people welcomed the u.s.-led air strikes but they have told us they need more of them. it's similar to what we are told in iraqi kurdistan fighting against isis on the ground. they welcome u.s. help they need more of it. the air strikes have targeted things like isis vehicles, barracks, training facilities and the oil fields that isis

controls and they will degrade the strength of isis. but destroying isis is another matter tonight may be impossible from the air. the islamic extremists are entrenched in towns and cities and air strikes will kill many more civilians which the u.s. and coalition partners want to avoid. >> holly, do you think the air strikes are welcomed by everyone there? >> no, they are not. isis has popular support amongst some sunni muslims in syria and iraq including in cities lycra ka and mosul. and the strikes have targeted a movement which is popular with syrians opposed to the regime and it's forced alongside the so-called moderate rebels backed by the u.s it's called on supporters to attack the u.s. and coalition partners in retaliation. and many ordinary syrians are outraged that the u.s. would

launch strikes while it's failed to take military action against the syrian regime which has been bombing its own people for more than three years. bob? >> schieffer: thank you so much. and be safe. and we turn now to anthony, the president's deputy national security advisor. as the president sort of succinctly outlined it and you heard from holly williams this is an extremely complicated situation. >> it is, bob but we have a comprehensive strategy to deal with it. you've seen the president put together a coalition. five arab countries were flying with us. and 50 countries now part of this effort not only dealing with the situation on the ground but trying to stop the flow of foreign fighters and stop the financing, it is a comprehensive campaign and has a broad coalition. it will take time but we have the pleases in place to do it >> schieffer: how do you think

it's going so far? >> you saw the president proceeded deliberately. we wanted to get an iraqi government in place to have a partner to work with in iraq and a group to train and equip the syrian opposition and we had a broad support of that in congress and this broad coalition with 50 countries and the first night in syria having five arabs flying with us is a significant development >> schieffer: what did do you think was the tipping point for the president on this? this does represent a different way of thinking it seems to me. what caused him to finally say we have to go out after these guys? they don't understand anything but force. >> bob, actually there is a strong continuum in the president's approach to this that is he has been relentless about dealing with terrorism before it emerges. he said he would go after bin laden in pakistan. wherever it's emerged we have dealt it. al-qaeda in afghanistan and pakistan has been decimated but

the problem moved elsewhere. this is a different approach than taken in the past. it's not tens of thousands of american ground forces not trillions of american dollars it's helping local forces with the unique things we have air power training them and assisting them and getting a broad coalition together and not falling into the al-qaeda trap of putting tens of thousands of americans on the ground to be bogged down and bled. >> speaker boehner told abc this 4 president has the authority for military action in syria, he says he will bring congress back to vote on it if the president wants him to do that. does the president want him to do that? >> we would welcome congress' support we have it for the training and equip program and that support can manifest in different ways including an authorization to use force. we do not require t we have the authorization from 2001 that is a basis for proceeding but we welcome congress showing

support. >> he also said this morning that if other nations don't step up and put ground troops into syria, his quote we have no other choice. >> we have been clear there will not be u.s. ground invasion of iraq or syria. this has to be local forces stepping up and fighting for their own country. what we are doing is providing some of the unique assets including air power but they have to be the ones doing the fighting on the ground. we are not going to repeat. hundreds of thousands of americans on the ground getting bogged down that is what al-qaeda wants. >> we hear reports that the administration may be considering a no-fly zone in syria. is that a possibility? >> we are looking at different things as this campaign moves forward. but in the first instance what we are looking at and doing is setting back isil in iraq and also in syria, moving them from their toes to their heels getting them thinking about

protecting themselves instead of killing other people and building up our local partners. other ideas that may come into play looking at that. but right now we are setting isil back >> schieffer: all right. thank you so much for joining us. we appreciate it. and joining us now from the state capitol in richmond is richmond senator tim cane. thank you for coming. i understand it, it's not that you disagree with what the president is doing now but you think congress should go on record and vote on this and put some end date to the operation however it turns out. am i summarizing your view correctly? >> you state it correctly. i think the president's definition of the mission has been careful and i've introduced an authorization to authorize the mission with key limitations and i think the administration has done a great job of bringing together the multinational

coalition. but we are not supposed to start a war without congress. i'm sitting in the capitol that thomas jefferson designed here in virginia. he james madison, george mason and others that participating in the drafting the constitution made a break from previous history where war was a matter for the executive and said war should not be started without congress. the reason they did it, we shouldn't be putting our servicemen and women in harm's way if there is not a political consensus that the mission is worth it. i think the president's assertion that he can do this, i think he does not have the article 2 authority to do this entire mission without congress and neither of the authorizations passed by congress in 2001 or 2002 cover t we should be debating and voting on this mission. >> schieffer: how detailed and what do you want the congress to vote on? what would be included in this resolution if you had -- to be what you want? >> bob, the resolution that i've introduced and other members

introduced similar resolutions, basically tracks the president's four-point plan humanitarian aid that is not controversial and the u.s. is the biggest provider of humanitarian aid. counterterrorism operations to go after isil leadership wherever they are. and in addition, the training and assisting the ground forces whether it's the iraqi security force, the kurdish area or vetted opposition in syria. so that is what we propose. and then there are key limitations. i include a sunset where the president would have to come back and keep congress informed to extend the mission beyond a year. a limitation on ground forces. a repeal of the 2002 iraq authorization so we don't have dueling authorizations and a careful definition of who the target is. the notion we can go after people who perpetrated 9/11 and now used to go after groups that did not exist when 9/11 happened

suggests we have to be careful how we define who we are at war with >> schieffer: so far at least you are sort of a lone voice. i know there are some others that agree with you but the majority of congress seem delighted to get out of town and not have to go on record on this. what do you think about that? >> bob, this concerns me. that the president would assert he has the ability to do this unilaterally. when as a candidate for president he made plain that the president cannot unilaterally start a war without congress he was very clear about that. but are you right it's more on congress' shoulders. we adjourned on the 18th of september. the second earliest recess before a midterm before 1960. if the president asked us to stay like david cameron asked parliament to come back we would have and the vote that congress passed on the one piece of it that we voted on, the training

of syrian opposition was showed strong bipartisan support in both houses we could have given the president and more importantly given our servicemen and women the strong backing of our political class before we asked them to risk their lives in what could be an extended mission. >> schieffer: all right. senator we thank you very much for being with us this morning. we will be back in one minute to talk to our panel of experts. [♪]

>> schieffer: we want to bring in our first panel for analysis. michele flournoy was the number three person at the pentagon earlier in the obama administration. she now heads upv'0ç the centerr new american security. general carter ham the former commander of the multinational brigade in mosul and recently head of the u.s. africa command and mike morell who was number two at the c.i.a..

he is now a cbs contributor. and mike, i want to start with you first. there was a report that we had gotten the head of khorasan this new here to for unheard of group of terrorists who has suddenly sprung up. but so far there's been no confirmation of that. do you have information on that? >> no, i don't. and i think if he had been killed we would know by now. i think the bigger question is this group was planning a very specific attack to bring down an airliner using some very sophisticated explosives. the question is have we disrupted that? and the answer is we don't know yet. sometimes you get intelligence that you have disrupted such a plot. sometimes you don't. but, bob, i will tell you in my four years of serving as deputy director we probably went

through this 10 times where we had a specific plot and the president took action to increase our defenses and to go after the terrorists and in every case we disrupted it. >> general ham, i want to ask you from a military standpoint how effective do you think this campaign has been so far? >> it's clear the air strikes to date have halted the advance of isil. and certainly caused them to change the openness with which they have been operating under. the next phase will be much more difficult. as isil forces blend into the cities and into civilian populations, identifying and targeting them will become increasingly difficult. >> schieffer: michele flournoy you were at the pentagon for a while. you worked for president obama. and you were among the top policy people there. i ask this question to tony just

now but i want to ask you: what do you think was the tipping point for the president on this? because this represents a fairly different way of thinking it seems to me when he decided to go into syria here. what did it? what caused him to say i got to do this? >> i think it is a number of things. i think it was the spilling over of the isil threat into iraq and with the speed and success that i think surprised everyone. i think it was the flow foreign fighters. you thousands of people coming in to syria to wage jihad who had western passports who could back to europe or the united states without getting visas and it was the beheading of the american journalists and the fact that that brought it home to americans in their living rooms watching the news. those things combined gave him a sense he had to act >> schieffer: what is your sense of that, general? >> i agree with secretary michele flournoy. i think it was the compilation

of events that unfolded and a recognition that isil presents a different threat than one we have faced before and that military action was required. but only as one component of a much broader ranging overarching strategy. >> mike? i think it's two things. one is the threat that they pose to the homeland today. and the threat that they could pose down the road and the fact that they pose a significant threat to the stability of the region. the failure of iraqs a state and the possible failure of syria as a state and what that would mean for the region you put those two together tonight forced him to act >> schieffer: it was interesting to hear the president says it was chaos created by the syrian civil war that isis was operating under the radar there. and that is how they were able to reenforce and rebuild their forces and emerge as a threat.

what is your sense of that, general? >> i think that is certainly partly true. we don't have great visibility did not have great visibility into what was going on inside syria and to a degree post the u.s. drawdown if iraq did not have eyes and people in force on the ground in northern iraq to detect that the situation was evolving. >> schieffer: michelle who do you think is the most influential advisor in the president's circle right now? >> i think he hears from a number of key people. certainly his national security advisor and also secretary of state kerry is very important as are general dempsey and military advisors. and this is a president who hears all points of view and weighs those. but i think the most important

thing here has been putting together of this coalition. because this coalition will actually not only help us fight isil but get some to our objectives in the middle east. >> i wanted to say something about the coalition i think it is very important that we have so many countries working together. but there's something that happened a couple days ago that i want to mention about the coalition. many americans do not believe there is a such thing as moderate muslims. but a couple days ago we had an female emirate pilot flying a jet over syria dropping weapons on isis. and it's great symbolism there are moderate arab states. >> schieffer: general, what is the problem going to be ahead? everybody we hearsays you cannot get this done without ground combat troops in there. do you agree with that? >> i do.

ground forces will be required to dislodge isil from the towns, villages and the large city of mosul that they control. the challenge the question remains, will it necessarily be western ground forces? and that has yet to play out. >> schieffer: will the iraquis ever get their act together here? do you see them as a viable ground force here? >> i think they will likely get their act together with our help. having our special operators in there intelligence officers and most importantly having a new government that will be more inclusive of the sunni population. that is the key to the confusion of the force >> schieffer: we are going to take a break and ask you to stick around for part two of the broadcast and i will be back in a moment with personal thoughts. [♪]

>> schieffer: some will say the president made a wrong turn. some and i am one of them, believe it was the right way to go. reality is not always to our liking but it is reality. the president's decision to go after isis was a recognition that the war on terror is not over and won't be over until the terrorists say it's over which they will never do and which is why they must be destroyed. some will criticize the president for being too slow to act. and i do believe he should have acted more quickly. but reluctance to put american lives on the line until absolutely necessary is not a bad thing. critics on the other side will argue he is taking us into another war when he campaigned to take us out of war. i have said before that we went to iraq for the wrong reasons and left in the wrong way. but that was then and this is now. no one wants more war.

but we can't pick and choose when to confront threats to our national security. we do that when the threat emerges. last week was a turning point for the administration. but to my mind, the president had no choice but to do what he did. back in a minute.

>> schieffer: some of our stations are leaving us now but for most of you we will be back with more "face the nation" so stay with us. [♪]

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