>> schieffer: i'm bob schieffer, today on "face the nation," overseas, what to do about isis. here at home what to do about measles. the fate of 26-year-old american aide worker kayla mueller remains unknown but isis still says she was killed in the u.s.-led coalition last week. but how is the war against isis going? we'll have reports from the region and we'll turn to the chairman of the house homeland security committee michael mccaul. former cia official michael he morell and former obama national security advisor tom donilon. then he'll turn to the sudden rise in measles in america. we'll talk about that with anthony fauci of the national institutes of health and our own dr. jon lapook.

plus analysis on all of this and more because this is "face the nation." captioning sponsored by cbs good morning, we're going first to cbs news correspondent charlie d'agata who joins us from amman, jordan. >> good morning bob. today is he jordanian officials says their fighter jets have carried out dozens of airstrikes against suspected isis targets over the past few days, this is bombardment retaliation for the gruesome execution of their pilot. the thought there would be relentless war against isis most of the week, we've seen it in combat directing this new offensive. also spoke to jordan's foreign minister who told us this is going to go way beyond airstrikes. >> divulge our plans but not just about increase air campaigns or combat, with everything that we have. this is our fight. and if there was any sled of doubt that these people are

evil i think this horrific event was evidence. >> in that message this is our fight is one that we continue to hear throughout the week, taking ownership and taking the fight to isis, capping in to that anger and cause for revenge. jordan's queen led procession after friday's prayers where thousands people to demonstrate hold mass prayer in memory of their pilot. but the situation has raised security concerns here this battle is being waged in iraq and syria we put that to the foreign minister he said we have to knock on their door before they knock on ours. bob. >> schieffer: charlie thank you. for latest on jordan's powerful response to the isis execution of its pilot jordan's minister of media affairs muhammad also joins us now from amman. mr. minister, your country has

conducted 56 airstrikes now in three days. can you tell yet what the impact they have had? >> our military officials bob just held a press conference saying that they believe there has been significant damage done to isis target, we believe that 20% of the known targets of isis has been destroyed over the last three days, airstrikes. we said right from the beginning that our response would be swift and strong and this is what they showed today in the press conference with pictures and evidence. >> schieffer: do you have any further information on the fate of the american aide worker, kayla mueller of course isis said she was killed in one of those airstrikes. >> they tend to lie about these things all the time. they negotiated a swap with our

pilot that they have killed weeks ago. what we know about them is that they are liars they don't have any respect for human life, that is why it's very difficult to actually make any accurate assessments or conclusions regarding the fate of the american lady. >> schieffer: your forces reacted strangly from the air do you think there's any possibility or are you considering actually sending ground troops against isis? >> at this point coalition members are not speaking about boots on the ground. having said that this is a war. his majesty at some point disquieted a third world war. if circumstances change then we will discuss it at that point. but at this point in time i think no one is talking about boots on the ground. the talk is about helping iraqi

military that kurdish armed forces and syrian forces opposition forces to help fight terrorism. >> schieffer: mr. minister, describe for me how you think the death of your pilot, what impact did that have on jordanian people? >> i think it was a very significant impact. the created a wave of anger not only in jordan but in the arab world and in the muslim world. interferer national community as well. i think people are convinced more than ever that she would be looking seriously in to this phenomenal of terrorism and this terrorist organization and we should do whatever it takes in order to fight terrorism and extremism. >> schieffer: mr. minister thank you so much. >> thank you bob. >> schieffer: cbs news

correspondent holly williams has been covering this story since isis first started march of terror in syria she filed this report from doha in northern iraq. >> this is my fifth visit to iraq since isis swept across the country last year. i came here wanted to find out what are the extremists are any closer iraqi national army is still in disarray, as it has been since many of its soldiers found their weapons and ran away from isis in june. tried to beat back isis, relying on shiite muslim militias, we encountered them where they just won decisive victory over isis. the problem is that the brigade is in the murder and torture of thousands of sunni muslims. just a few days before our visit they were accused of killing more than 70 un-armed sunni men in that same area.

that means that one of america's best allies in the fight against isis here in iraq is a notorious levi lent militia group. this week we also crossed in to syria where they have very different. isis gained ground there during the airstrike. where kurdish are holding out against extremists. one of those young fighters is a 2-year-old elementary schoolteacher who quit her job to become a sniper. >> you want freedom. don't want to be afraid. if you didn't do it. the whole place would be full of isis. >> the kurdish fighters told us they have not seen a single airstrike and they desperately want some. but so far the vast majority of

strikes in syria have targeted just one key city, kobani. they sing battle songs to pass the time, but extremely tense. if isis launches full scale offensive on their area, they have would be quickly over run. they urgently want international help, but in syria they are unlikely to get it because the u.s. is reluctant to get more deeply involved in the country's complex civil war. in particular if it could end up helping the syrian regime. >> schieffer: in trip i can holly williams reporting from northern iraq. turn to the house homeland security committee republican mike mccaul. he joins us from austin. mr. chairman, after hearing from spokesman for the jordanian government this morning, do you believe this administration, the obama administration is taking

this threat seriously enough? >> not enough, they never have. they won't even define the enemy for what it is, radical islamist extremisms. the airstrikes have limited success, not policy to degrade. destroy the enemy. if anything the jordanian pilot will now galvanize i hope the arab nations to fight isis including on the ground, we heard in your segment piece earlier they say it's our fight also the united states fight because we don't want them to attack us here on the homeland security. i think that under u.s. leadership if we can galvanize these arab nation, sunni arabs against sunni extremist, isis in syria that would be the ideal. i think there's no ground force in syria, as you heard in your reporting the airstrikes are not sufficient to date to take care of and take out isis right now.

>> schieffer: let me just ask you this, mr. chairman, as horrible as it is, this hoar riff he can as thee things are that we are seeing do these people pose a threat to the american homeland? >> i believe they do, the reason why we have 50,000 isis strong and growing. i believe this pop began da film almost like hollywood horror film will get more recruits and galvanize i hope the arab nations, let's face it, they're about 15 to 20,000 gone up to 20,000 foreign fighters, 5,000 with western passports. had hundreds of americans that have traveled to fight in the region some have returned. talking about barbarians at the gate. we need to keep them out of the gate we need to monitor those who got through the gate. this is sear use homeland security issue as well we don't want to see what happened in paris happen here in the united states. >> schieffer: general john allen who is the head of the

u.s. military effort against isis told abc this morning that isis is at -- these are his words, entirely different level than al qaeda. better organized better command. do you agree with his assessment? >> absolutely. al qaeda denounced because they're so brutal in their tactics. but they are governing functioning, they own territory they have lot of money. so they are far more dangerous i think than al qaeda has ever been. lot better organized. if you look at social media propaganda like the film of the jordanian pilot so sophisticated, they send that out over the world to sort of inflame the potential radicalized islam world, we worried about foreign fighters also home grown violent extremist, is that can get radicalized over the internet

here in the united states. >> schieffer: thank you so much for joining us now. we appreciate it. we want to turn now for more on what the u.s. can do to defeat isis and we're going to talk about that with mike morell the former deputy director of the cia now senior security contributor for cbs news, tom donilon, former national security advisor for president obama. let me just ask both of you the same question, tom i'll start with you you see administration taking this seriously enough? >> i think so. because it's a serious threat. as congressman said, we are in entirely new and complicated phase in the effort against terrorism. multiple vectors isis as you were discussing is a large organization, controls large swath of territory. hey be 20,000 foreign fighters there. may be several thousand who hold western passports that precents ongoing threat to the united states. isis presents threat to our

important allies and partner in iraq and jordan and lebanon and elsewhere. >> >> schieffer: i ask you this question, in the midst of all of this, the president's national security advisor susan rice, said this. >> too often what's missing here in washington is a sense of perspective. yes, there is a lot going on. still, while the dangers we face may be more numerous and varied they are not of the ex existential nature we had in world war ii or during the cold war. we cannot afford to be buffet the by alarmism and nearly instantaneous news cycle. >> schieffer: tom explain that to me. >> it is important to have perspective and it is important for decision makers while you're dealing with the crisis of the moment to keep your eye on the long haul and strategic

challenge antients that the country has. that said, as we sit here today we have a serious new set of developments. by the way not just isis, but it's isis in iraq and michael can comment on this more, isis in iraq and syria but it's in yemen with aqap the group that inspired the attacks in paris we have collapsing situation in yemen. other al qaeda groups in syria and ip north african we have this social media dynamic that is radicalizing individuals around the world and individuals in small groups. and we have first class crisis in europe right now. >> perspective is really important here. isis pose a threat to the united states, absolutely. does it pose a threat to the order in middle east and borders and the whole system ip the middle east, absolutely. but is it the biggest threat to the only hand right now? no. aqap in yemen is a bigger threat al qaeda in pakistan is

a bigger threat, the group which is part of the group in syria which is separate from isis is bigger threat right now. perspective is really important here. >> schieffer: when you put all that together no, i don't think so this has anything close to the evil that the nazis represented, obviously this is not the cold war with the soviet union. but it seems to me, this is something that -- i'm still not sure this administration is galvanized to fight this fight and do what is necessary to do it. >> let me just give you a sense of sort of where we are after six months in this fight. it's been six months now of airstrikes, we're getting a large number of executions now most recent was absolutely the most brutal. where are we, right? we have had a big victory in this fight so far which is we have stopped the isis blitzkrieg

across iraq. stopped it in its tracks, right? gained no more territory since we started the airstrikes. if we had not done this they would be in baghdad today that's our significant victory here. we have to push them back, that's going to take some time and training of iraqi troops going to be figuring out a strategy in syria but they have also had a victory bob it has been the spread of their message that's been faster than anything we've ever seen from al qaeda. now you have terrorist groups in algeria, in libya and in egypt increasingly in afghanistan who are taking on the isis brand. we have one of those groups just ten days ago attack a hotel in tripoli and kill an american. we have self radicalization in western europe and australia and canada, that's all isis related. that's been their big victory here. that's where we are today. >> i do think this the u.s. and coalition responses have been substantial. i checked in with the coalition

authority on friday afternoon with respect to the numbers there have been 2300 airstrikes. about 6,000 isis fighters killed, have leadership taken off the battlefield this is just the beginning. this is a long term effort that will go well beyond president obama's administering. we've done this stopping momentum that michael mentioned, begun to push back, taking back territory requires an effective on the ground effort. we don't have that yet we're building that, that is months away. i think it can be done, by the way, through training the iraqi security forces and providing with the support that they need. and shrinking isis, by the way pushing back on their success which is absolutely critical here. another key thing we're going to have to do in addition to the ground effort in iraq is getting the politics right. reporter holly williams excellent piece underscored a real challenge which is getting political reconciliation and power sharing in iraq going forward are otherwise we'll have

big. >> schieffer: we'll take a break come back talk some more about this. we'll be back. daughter: do you and mom still have money with that broker? dad: yeah, 20 something years now. thinking about what you want to do with your money? daughter: looking at options. what do you guys pay in fees? dad: i don't know exactly. daughter: if you're not happy do they have to pay you back? dad: it doesn't really work that way. daughter: you sure? vo: are you asking enough questions about the way your wealth is managed? wealth management at charles schwab. i've been called a control freak... i like to think of myself as more of a control... enthusiast. mmm, a perfect 177-degrees. and that's why this road warrior rents from national. i can bypass the counter and go straight to my car. and i don't have to talk to any humans, unless i want to. and i don't. and national lets me choose any car

in the aisle. control. it's so, what's the word?... sexy. go national. go like a pro. >> schieffer: back now with mike morell and tom donilon. you're both talking about the threat here and both of you agree that there has to be some kind of force on the ground. but who is it going to be? >> in iraq it will need to be iraqi security forces. and there is a lot of push back against isis by the shia militias which is complicated organization. can be quite sectarian and violent that's a real challenge going forward. there's the core it is building up the iraqi security forces to retake territory. >> on the serious side, i don't think we've quite figured that out yet. training 5,000 moderate opposition a year which we haven't even started to do yet is not a large number in my

view. the number is going to have to be larger in syria, you have to get syria right, if we don't isis will simply come across that border as we have success in iraq we wouldn't want that. >> schieffer: let me shift quickly to the german leader andrea merkel coming here this week. obviously there's a big split now between germany and the united states, we have people in the administration talking about, not committed to, but talking about maybe it's time to arm the ukrainians over there she says flatly we shouldn't do that. if there divide between germany and united states on this, tom? >> the president will talk about this tomorrow. one is that president putin and russians continue to press unimpeded way their goals in ukraine. russians are responsible for the violence, we have a war 5,000 people have been killed from the outset of this thing. putin has led russia in a direction that's essentially

adversarial to the united states and the west, that's a big change. and third, we need to put more pressure on this situation that's what they will talk about. oil prices have put a lot of pressure on russia, next decision here is decision around defensive arms for ukraine, that will be discussed tomorrow. merkel came out strongly against that in the security conference over the weekend. i would be much more in favor of moving forward with that, the secret here may be important. one of the reasons you have this latest effort to go to moscow to get a political solution because of the prospect of arming the ukrainians. my view, engage in the politic engage in the diplomacy hold back as next step we'd take increasing the costs. >> only thing i would do, i would talk about who the real loser is in this whole ukraine story. real loser is russia. it's the russian economy, it's the russian middle class because of what putin has done here, any hope of integrating russia with

the west is gone. russia is the big loser, should talk to the russians, should talk to the russian people publicly about that. >> schieffer: do you think we're anywhere close to getting -- >> it's not clear at this point. to date putin since the september agreement has violated all of the provisions, hasn't tried to implement any way effectively implement any of the provisions. there is pressure on russia, but to date as we sit here today there's no seib that russia has in any stopped or reduced the forces, just the opposite. maybe latest round of politics, maybe the threat of having us bring we'll see tomorrow, very important meeting tomorrow. >> schieffer: i want to thank both of you. bringing some perspective to this. i'll be back with some personal thoughts.

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>> schieffer: thoughts on the other big story of the week. measles, after 1998 report on prestigious british medical journal, who could blame a parent for questioning whether to have a child vaccinated, not me. but here is the hook. scientists question the conclusions from the start the study was debunked in 2004 and in 2010 we backed it called utterly false by the journal's editor. the doctor who wrote the study was barred from practicing medicine and it was learned he had taken $670,000 from a lawyer who hoped to sue vaccine makers, but as mark twain once remarked, a lie can travel around the world while the truth is putting its boots on. underline that in the age of the internet as vaccination rates dropped in some places and measles came back. with an elect coming, no surprise that the right not to

vaccinate became an issue one sid, some of these candidates were afraid of losing the anti-science group. there is more than science lesson here, it's a reminder that the internet is the first medium to deliver news on worldwide scale that has no editor. the worst newspaper has someone who knows where the stuff comes from but not the internet. information, true, false and in between just appears from who knows where and once out it's as hard to kill as crab grass. sometimes, more dangerous. we'll have more on this story from dr. anthony fauci of the national institutes of health and our own dr. jon lapook come up next on "face the nation."

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